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Weekly Character Discussion: Pokemon Trainer

BlueTerrorist

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
720
Location
New York
Here are the rules:
- DO NOT SPAM IN THIS THREAD!!!
- Do not create another topic for Pokemon Trainer, discuss it here or I'll see to it your thread is closed at Sonic speed. No need to spam the boards with something similar to this.
- I know there will be debates, I only ask that you keep it civil. Tell the people you bring from the other boards that too. Any hint of flaming and stupidity that said person will be dealt with swiftly, I'm not gonna tolerate that mess here.

I think this topic would be interesting. Discuss.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
963
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Chicago,IL
NNID
MasterHavik
Umm, pokemon trainer? I don't know how to put this one. The litte water ***** is a pain, but ivy and cradz are that hard for me to beat. Ivy might eat my d air, but he is tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy to gimp. Almost easier than gimping lucario. that all I have to say.
 

Greenstreet

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
2,965
something to note: make sure you now where you are going to end up and where your hits land, coz squirtle is small to be missing attacks. play charizard a little bit like u play a bowser... and ivysaur a bit like a pikachu, i g2g run atm but i will edit this later....
not very comprehensive i am sorry.
 

TwinkleToes

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,545
Location
MN
Playing more defensively is usually to your advantage as it weakens the pokemon. I mean, you don't necessarily have to do that, but if you're getting desperate it can help you.
 

R4ZE

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
721
Location
Florida
squirtle is definately the hardest one to fight... sonic and squirtle both have trouble hitting eachother... the only chance u got really is baiting him into smashes. Zard gets ***** by asc and spin dash combo's... and gimpasaur.... well he gets gimped like cake.
 

ROOOOY!

Smash Master
Joined
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I've only really played against a Squirtle who was decent, but don't follow him into the air, attack him from below. His aerial movement is too good and you'll get hurt.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
meh?! lol everyone's so clueless on this matchup XD

Squirtle will priorirape you in the air, so don't be sloppy, and take advantage of him when he's on the ground. However, his jabs come out really fast and also have pretty good priority. He's like.. Jigglypuff + ground game and situational watergun.

Be careful of Ivysaur's bullet seed and U-air/U-smash. Ivy's really floaty, so he can throw out razor leaves to hit you/prevent you from edgehogging, and the up-B has very deceptive range and speed. Tilts and aerials can be used for spacing/bulletseed setups. Yes, it IS possible for Ivysaur to edgehog people as they're double jumping, during hitstun from razor leaf, etc. >_> I do it more often than would be expected.

Charizard is large, and the fight is kinda like Bowser, except Charizard is much more quicker, mobile, and to an extent, more painful if he lands hits on you (and watch out for a Squirtle switch when you're at 120%- don't get grabbed.). Okay, so it's not really like fighting Bowser. He's about as heavy as Ganondorf.

Sometimes, Pokemon will be sometimes be used to set up damage/placement for kills done by their other Pokemon. Like Charizard can be used to bring you up to 120-130%, get fatigued, and depending on damage, fight until one of you dies or switch to Squirtle to D-throw you to death. Squirtle can be used until death and possibly, depending on how low his damage is, knock you away, switch to Ivysaur and finish you off with one of Ivy's many kill moves (F-air, Dash attack [150%+], U-air, sweetspot up-B, etc). And Ivysaur can do the same and fight/damage until the death or switch to Charizard and try to use weight to survive+KO you.

So quick summary of Pokemon:
Squirtle: Damager/situational KO
- Priorirape in the air- very good aerial control so expect WOP's and other aerial feints that you'd expect from Jigglypuff and Wario.
- Un-stale F-air, D-throw, U-smash (can be done out of 'hydroplane' for an extra slide), and other smashes can kill. F-smash has Super Armor.
- Fatigued Squirtle can juggle pretty well, but seems to lose the most knockback from fatigue.

Ivysaur: "Tank" in that it damage easily and KO's easily (or.. early). Strong in-stage, weak off-stage.
- Bullet seed, tilts, B-air, Razor Leaf can be used for stage control.
- Smart players will try to stay near the center of the map and avoid early gimps.
- U-air, U-smash, F-air, F-smash, ss Up-B are used most for kills. Dash attack can kill at 150%+, from what I hear.
- Ivysaur has a couple of kill moves, but they kill the earlier of all the Pokemon.

Charizard: "Tank" as a heavy character. Out of all the pokemon, Charizard seems to be able to kill the best while still fatigued.
- Don't be sloppy and get caught in Rock Smash. DI up/away from fire breath.
- F-air, D-air, U-smash, D-tilt, D-throw, Up-B, F/D-smash, B-air and sometimes, Rock Smash can be used for kills. That all said, Charizard has many potential killing moves but generally has to take you to a higher damage to do it.
- As the heaviest of all the pokemon, Charizard can sometimes be used as a 'shock trooper' and be used to fight until death.

Like Sonic, PT players will tend to differ on their playstyle and pokemon preferences.

Yeah, I've only fought a few PT's and am only half decent with it myself `.`;
 

Umby

Smash Master
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I'm just your problem~
Squirtle: Catch him with Fair right after he leaves the ground for his aerials. Dash Attack/DAC to disrupt his shellshifting. Down let it bog you down in once place trying to defend what he does after shellshifting. ASC kinda sucks here (IMO), unless you end up shield canceling it while he's on the ground. Don't abuse Spin Dash/Charge -> Homing Attack. Use them frequently enough to catch him off guard and rack up damage, but don't give him a reason to start evading/countering it. If he does catch on, try an SDR double take before jumping into a Homing Attack.

Ivysaur: Spinshot if you need to find away to her back, just try not to get caught in Bullet Seed. You can always shield dash Razor Leaf, just watch out for her ranged attacks once you get past them. Don't get suckered into trying to shield grab Nair. Either ftilt out of shield or get out of there. Ftilt's pretty important for spacing here, over all. I recommend it the most for punishing her laggier attacks. You can play grab release games on the edge to help with your gimping, as if that might not be easy enough. One key to minimizing damage here is to try not to get caught in Bullet Seed through Spin Dash and trying to Spin Dash combo.

Charizard: Each time I face a different PT, there's really just a variation on how much of a hard time I have. But for one thing, it's definitely not like fighting Bowser. The only real thing that's similar is that you can Spinshot over Flamethrower and punish. Like Ivysaur, you want to be careful around Nair. It's got some slightly deceptive range. It's hard to chain Sonic's fair on Charizard IMO, since they all seem to want to counter the next Fair with a Fair of their own.

I really don't know what to say about staying on the offense on Charizard, as I've never really led what I'd call a "successful" offensive campaign against Charizard, regardless of whether I kill them or not.
 

aeghrur

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Minnesota
Um, when your at a high damage, play more defensively. Pokemon get fatigued and after 2 minutes, you run a lesser risk of getting KOed.
Squirtle's air priority is... killer... >.< His U-Smash is good too.
Ivy has HIGH knockback/damage moves too so be aware, but be sure to gimp him off stage. Of course, don't get countered.
Zard will most likely be the one they switch to at high percents and can really be a pain, but hey, he's big and his moves can be punished. Rule of thumb is don't get hit?
 

MarKO X

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Ivysaur's dair can spike too... just be careful with that. And unless you're sure about life, don't use the homing attack on Ivysaur. The bulb makes it waaay to risky, and the reward isn't hardly worth it. But definitely gimp when given the chance, it'll give you this small sigh of relief until you figure out that Charizard is coming.

Charizard is kinda like fighting Bowser, as mentioned before, but because he can switch, it's not really like fighting Bowser. You have to remember that he is a bigger than average target and use the techs that you'd use against characters that are that much bigger than you. Another interesting note is that Charizard has super armor in his upB, so watch out for that when you're attempting to gimp him below the stage.

Fighting against squirtle does suck. I have nothing even remotely helpful to say about fighting him.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
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Messages
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I got to play some (framerate-laggy) matches with Fearmy today and we both agreed Squirtle gave me the most problems, move-wise. Basically if Squirtle's going to win, he's going to have to stick with jabs and airborne moves.

It's pretty nice to be under Ivysaur. U-air outprioritizes the poor uprooted plant in the air. Otherwise, you just want to be careful about being airborne in front or above it. Ivy has an awesome anti-aerial game, so watch it.

Charizard - don't get caught in his special attacks. His D-tilt can kill at higher %'s and so can his D-smash and D-throw. Pressure game.
 
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