Official "We are one with the Battlefield" - Shulk Stage Discussion (Currently discussing: Pilotwings)

[Berserker.]

Only thing I can note about Delfino is that any combo that ends with air slash is safe in walk-off areas. That's about it. Don't know much about this stage tbh

 

[notyourparadigm]

Ok, so most important thing to remember about this stage is the huge advantage we gain in Shulk having a swimsuit alt. Your opponent's movement options are limited-- they have to worry about their outfit getting wet since the stage has so much water. Shulk can dive in the water with no hesitation AND get a wicked tan.

...jokes aside, Delfino Plaza is actually one of my favourite stages to play in friendlies. Dunno if it's just how great it looks coupled with the fun music, but I actually think it allows for some really fun gameplay because of the diversity of locations, plus can result in some really wacky hijinx. Of course, competitively, folks aren't so fond of wacky hijinx... but I don't think it's a bad stage. I much prefer it to Halberd or Lylat just because of familiarity with it and its lack of stage hazards/tilting. Might be a solid counterpick if someone has banned your stage(s) of choice, but you don't want to take them to another stage they clearly benefit from.

The sheer number of transitions, and how fundamentally different it is compared to the other legal stages makes this an odd stage to discuss. But I'll do my best! I'm going to use images from ParanoidDrone's post about the stage from this thread to allow for quick image referencing. The post itself is very thorough on the essentials of the stage, so check it out for specifics there if interested.

First to note of are the transition platforms. These ones should feel more familiar than the rest of the stage as they actually have lower blast zones, unlike the majority of the 'stops' you can visit. Edge guarding actually exists! Take advantage of it! Sharking is possible through the main platform on all four, so surprise Air Slashes from below the stage might catch opponents off-guard. You have a lot more flexibility recovering from the ledge, especially with Jump, so mix things up!

Name|Picture | Comments
Transition Platform 1|

| The sheer length of the top platform means an opponent launched vertically is likely to land on it. Reading the direction of tech rolls is great here, and I find myself using uair more often than usual. Utilt does not reach the upper platform.

• Vanilla SH: Nope
• Vanilla FH: Lower Platform
• Jump SH: Nope
• Jump FH: Upper Platform
• Speed SH: Nope
• Speed FH: Nope
• Shield SH: Nope
• Shield FH: Lower Platform

Transition Platform 2|

| The positioning of these platforms seem far more defensive. It won't be as easy to use Shulk's range to harass people on the platforms, but by the same token you can also use them as retreating options. Utilt does not reach the upper platform.

• Vanilla SH: Nope
• Vanilla FH: Lower Platforms
• Jump SH: Nope
• Jump FH: Lower Platforms
• Speed SH: Nope
• Speed FH: Nope
• Shield SH: Nope
• Shield FH: Nope

Transition Platform 3|

|This one feels a lot 'cosier' than the rest, as the slanted platforms draw a lot of the action towards centre stage. I favour Buster on this layout compared to Jump or Speed due to how small it feels. Utilt can reach everywhere (just barely the upper one; you have to be right underneath them).

• Vanilla SH: Nope
• Vanilla FH: Middle-inwards of Lower Platforms
• Jump SH: Middle-inwards of Lower Platforms
• Jump FH: Everywhere
• Speed SH: Nope
• Speed FH: Only innermost of Lower Platform
• Shield SH: Nope
• Shield FH: Only innermost of Lower Platform

Transition Platform 4|

| The staggered platforms could lead to some cool combos, but I haven't done enough lab time to say anything in particular. Utilt reaches both platforms easily.

• Vanilla SH: Nope
• Vanilla FH: Lower Platform
• Jump SH: Nope
• Jump FH: Both Platforms
• Speed SH: Nope
• Speed FH: Nope
• Shield SH: Nope
• Shield FH: Lower Platform

It's worth noting that out of the 9 'stops' you can visit, only two have regular lower blast zones: Rooftop, and Shine Gate. The rest either have water in the way, or double walk offs-- and even Rooftop is half walk off. You'll have to keep in mind how your gameplay should change when dealing with walkoffs (however you particularly do so).

Unique to Deflino is taking into consideration how your gameplay should change when dealing with water boundaries. They play almost like a hybrid of walk-off and normal stage boundaries-- you have no fear of falling to your death (so like Berserker said, offstage Air Slashes are more viable options), but gimps are eliminated, and 'edge guarding' becomes practically non-existent. First one out of the pool can harass the other for trying not to drown, as your only option ever is to jump out of the water.

Name |Picture | Comments
Bianco Square|

|Time for all those For Glory matches to pay off! Aside from it's obvious similarities to FD, the only other thing to note is the water on both boundaries, and how this will affect your usual off-stage play.
East Island|

|The slopes on the edges aren't friendly for the range on Shulk's moves. I usually find myself missing things such as ftilt, fsmash, and bair, even when I should get a free punish with them. Using more dtilt can help with this, as well as opting for grabs as punishes. Position-wise, I try to stay in the centre of the stage (even with follow-ups by using more uthrows) to avoid the salt of a KO missing because of slants. Most opponents will be happy to return to centre-stage anyways.
Docks|

|I like this stop, as Shulk from the water can safely pressure opponents on either 'dry' side with retreating fair or utilts in the corner. But the right hand walk-off is more camp-able in this layout as an approaching opponent has to jump to reach it. If your opponent camps there, I don't recommend challenging it; just wait for the transition.
Pillars|

|The jankiest transition. Speed is practically useless here aside form aerial mobility increase. Expect a lot of jumping from both you and your opponent, since ground options are so limited. If your opponent finds themselves going for a swim, you should be able to theoretically dair-spike them the easiest here because of the entirely vertical platforms... but I've never landed it, and putting myself in the water just removes my advantage. I'm fond of keeping my ground and trying to play King of the Hill on the Islands-- SH Fair and Nair go a long way in limiting air movement and keeping yourself dry.
West Island|

|Pretty much a more boring version of East Island. The slant is less pronounced, so should affect your moves less.
Umbrellas|

|One of my favourite stops. The umbrellas here are always very nice to extend strings. I actually find myself KOing a lot on this transition with Smash utilt when my opponent gets stuck on one of the umbrellas. I also learned that, if you are Nairo , you can actually tech the small platform off-screen on the left hand side if you make sure to DI down.
Rooftop|

|Sort of a weird one; a lot of characters' BnB combos are really affected by the slopes and weird central jutting section. I think the layout favours improved movement in Jump or Speed Art, as you'll have to be much more creative with follow-ups.
Noki Bay|

|Again, the slopes on the side can affect horizontally long moves like ftilt, fsmash, and bair, but the walk-offs mean... well... walk-offs. Speed pivot grab to bthrow victory. Don't get bthrown yourself; Shield and hold your ground centre stage if you are worried about walk-off shenanigans.
Shine Gate|

|You finally get your offstage game back! Be careful about recovering too low here, as Shulk can hit his head on the platform instead of grabbing the ledge. I think the lack of stage to tech and inability to shark through the platform might mean we can bair opponents with poor recoveries away from the ledge... maybe. I'll try it out sometime and see how it goes. The stage itself has similar properties to Rooftop as the central jutting and odd slopes can disrupt normal follow ups; I'd again opt for Jump or Speed just for the extra flexibility. If all else fails, cram yourself in the corner and utilt non-stop.

I know these were rather generic comments, but this is a rather tricky stage to analyse. If anyone has specific comments about the transitions, I can add them to this post for easy reference in the future.

EDIT: Added full and short hop jump heights for each art on the transition platforms, and where utilt reaches.

EDIT 2: So to put a numerical rating on this stage... I honestly don't think Shulk gains too much from it as he can't take advantage of the lower ceilings as devastatingly as other characters can (although surprise uair / Smash utilt if your opponent is stuck on one of the stage transition platforms as it is transitioning...) and we are constantly being removed from our offstage game. We do have the mobility arts to not be as affected by the rather unusual layouts, which can keep things in our advantage and keep us from getting comboed/stringed too badly.

Overall * * * out of 5. Not a horrible stage, but nothing that gives us a distinct advantage.

Also, I would avoid taking these characters to Delfino:
Basically anyone who loves to kill off the top and will laugh as you die at 40% during the transition.

 

[Berserker.]

.... Anything else to add about Delfino? Anyone?

If so, then we might as well move on to Dreamland 64 if you guys dig that

OP has been updated with FD info. I've been slow paced with the stage info. My B on that. I'll make sure everything has been finished by tomorrow or maybe sooner or later.

 

[Masonomace]

notyourparadigm went ham on the Delfino analysis, so I don't have much to say other than that Arts don't affect us swimming in the water but jumping out of it iirc is affected by the Jump Speed & Shield Arts. So If you go into the water as Speed or Shield Shulk & that current transition shifts into the next one, you had better buffer deactivating your current Art while jumpiing out of the water & cycle to Jump for a comfortable time recovering to the ledge because you can't deactivate an Art while swimming (I think. . .I could be wrong).

Since there's walk-offs blastlines & most of the transitions having platforms, this stage can favor all 4 Arts but most of all Speed.

EDIT: It would actually be better swimming around in Shield Art more than anything because our jump height isn't as reduced & our knockback resistance still applies in the water per-say you get Meteor'd & you're swimming back up. The higher our percentage is, the less time we have to swim which also means the quicker it is to drown.

 

[Berserker.]

Kongo Jungle discussion starts from this post

 

[Peppa]

I honestly don't have too incredibly much to say about Kongo Jungle. In my area I've seen Kongo legal as a CP then just for doubles then seemingly not at all, so I don't have an incredible amount of time on it. As much as I haven't ever enjoyed the stage in any iteration, it actually is pretty decent for Shulk,.
more like Kongo Jumpgle amirite

I really only like jump and smash here. Shulk lives to ungodly percents as it is, and you will be seeing over 200% here with good DI (Unless you aim for the RNG Devil of a barrel)
Speed helps him close the gap on the bottom portion of the map, but is nea- useless to reach the platforms above to pressure. Buster as usual is just an art that you'd use once you're in, but it is not quite as effective I think due to the sheer size of the stage, so its easier to get around

Spoiler: Xenoblade Spoilers

Zanza Shulk's monado

by moving and out-maneuvering Shulk.

This stage is too big to use shield on this stage, people will be running circles around you, I actually think this is the first time Smash Art is going to be more useful for you guys/

Jump makes you a terror on this stage. People take their time to recovery due to the huge blast zones and with jump you will be closing spaces faster then dinosaurs on Juju.
Its incredibly easy to follow recoveries of the side or high up top, making uair a great move on this stage and pretty darn safe.

The way our sword swings around is not affected at all by the jankiness of the bottom of Kongo which is a huge plus; Especially against projectile users because the stage can block a lot of camp and you still can hit them. Its a great stage to big people like Greninja or Villager to/

Smash art here will give you a slightly better advantage then you're used to having smash give you, because you won't die quite as early once again due to the massiveness of the stage and it will make you kill like you do on vanilla.

I actually think this is a terrific stage for Shulk, its just a shame I dislike it personally.

 

[Masonomace]

This stage is funky. And no I don't mean to make a Funky Kong pun, it's just the stuff we can do on purpose could make people dislike picking KJ64 against Shulk.

Reasons to abuse this stage as Shulk:

1. The Barrel moves from side-to-side about as fast as Vanilla Shulk running or rolling, Speed Shulk walking, or Jump Shulk drifting airborne
2. Jump Shulk can purposefully drift to recover towards the Barrel, shoot out of it multiple times, & airdodge as many times needed while rinsing & repeating the drifting process going towards the next direction the barrel heads to. We can use our doublejump & Air Slash easily getting back inside the barrel from underneath it if need be
3. Speed Shulk can do the same thanks to the air speed increase to keep up with the barrel moving, but it's harder with a height reduced doublejump & Air Slash that doesn't reach as high. Delaying the 2nd hit of Air Slash is key if you need that extra inching to get to the barrel though

If we wanted to, we really could stall the match by just chilling in the barrel but enough of that. I'm sure it's banned if it hasn't been already. Btw, did I mention that it's really cool to deliberately Back Slash people off-stage knowing the barrel will catch your fall?<3

Anyway, the stage can be a lot of fun to play on if you incorporate the barrel with your game-plan but the barrel can also be unforgiving if say you're inside the barrel already & decide to press A, B, C-stick, or Z button right as it's rotating around. It could be rotating clockwise or counter-clockwise but know that it's safe to just stay in the barrel until the arrow points straight up, or if it's already spinning one way & it happens to be pointing towards the stage, then it's okay. The maximum height the barrel launches you is just high enough to land on the outer platforms near the apex of the two trees, so you can either doublejump to avoid landing on them, or tech on them.

So with that said, let's talk about some movement strategies you can do with each Art:

Jump

• While hanging on the ledge, you can Ledge-jump & hold back on the control stick until you see Shulk almost drifting to the very end of the platform & then he'll land perfectly on it with very little landing lag
• Ledge-drop away or down from the ledge & doublejump F-air or B-air to swipe at a nearby opponent & continue to drift towards the center stage to acquire stage control / presence over them
• Ledge-drop away & input Air Slash while drifting backwards in between the 1st & 2nd slash to land perfectly on the upper platform

Speed

• Ledge-drop away or down & use a doublejump F-air while drifting towards the center caved down lower to the ground so that you can cancel F-air's landing lag with Air Slash to aim for landing on top of one of the circling platforms for a safety net
• Ledge-drop away or down & use a doublejump F-air while drifting towards the other side of the stage & accordingly Air Slash whole holding towards the ledge & then delay the 2nd slash to hit anyone behind you in case they chase you
• When standing on one of the outer sides of the stage, input a SH & F-air together while drifting towards the center stage so that you can cancel the F-air's landing lag & then input Air Slash to land on one of the circling platforms for a safety net

With the AAS custom, it's more dangerous to be planking on this stage since it's a semi-soft platform stage, but you can still ledge-drop & repeatedly AAS towards the ledge to keep people away from the ledge so that they respect your zoning & allow you to get on the stage. . .or they'll try to mess with you so be careful of that.

A cool thing to do with AAS on this stage is ledge-dropping away only, then holding towards the stage after inputting the 1st hit of AAS, & delay it long enough while still holding towards the stage so that the 2nd hit will slide across the sloped surface & slide all the way to the center stage. Try it out!

EDIT: I forgot to mention this, but once you get inside the barrel first, the opponent cannot do anything to you while you're in the barrel. You're essentially untouchable until you burst out of the barrel.

 

[rosetta_stoned]

On the front page you should have a rating system, whether it be /5, *'s, or a simple thumbs up or down for quick reference on whether the stage has been concluded to be in or against shulks favor.

Very informative and well done nonetheless.

 

[Berserker.]

On the front page you should have a rating system, whether it be /5, *'s, or a simple thumbs up or down for quick reference on whether the stage has been concluded to be in or against shulks favor.

Very informative and well done nonetheless.

I'd be pretty down for this tbh. If the regulars in this thread are cool with it, they can try going back to the previous discussions and give their final rating on the stage. I'll update the OP with the results... that and the write-ups for each stage

 

[Berserker.]

Oh god, I forgot about this thread

What should we discuss next? Mario Circuit, Pilot wings, Norfair?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I'd say we do Pilotwings. I know that's a counterpick in some places but I don't think Mario Circuit or Norfair are legal like anywhere lol

 

[Berserker.]

Okay, give me a minute or an hour. Lol

Okay done.

Ugh. Feeling lazy to do the write-ups for the stages, but I'll try finishing it up

 

[Peppa]

Pilotwings is in no way legal here due to the circle camp one or a couple of transitions has, so I have no idea.

 

[Masonomace]

The one yellow airplane stage transition has the engines to stand on to for camping. I guess just go there & you're good. I got nothing much else to say

 

[Linkmario00]

Pretty much use Uptilt and Nair to camp when you can. Don't know anything else lol. Is even Pilotwings worth discussing? I think it's banned almost everywhere. If we have finished the stages I say we could go back and do more in depth discussion, maybe adding rating for the stages. I also had a new idea yesterday. We can analize every single character and write a list about where to go against X character. Since one stage can be banned we should list 3 stages for each character, so let's say we're discussing Luigi, stage n°1 is the go-to, n°2 is good if 1 is banned and n°3 is the last choice. If in your scene there are three bans than I think it should go to preference since we're not LM and stages care relatively

 

[erico9001]

Pilot Wings? Yeah, that's not usually legal, but it's often mistaken as a stage that is.

Anyways, our goal would be to get on one of the two lower levels, and basically spam U-tilt. On the yellow plane, Monado Speed or Monado Jump help with that. Buster is not bad once you're in your camping spot.

F-smash cannot reach through the middle of the plane... I've tried that often.

Without a projectile, we're surely in the disadvantage here. We can get camped out so hard. Monado Jump is the only hope to hit a camper on the yellow part, but they can just shield. On the red plane, idk, any of the arts would be fine. You could stay in a camping spot with Monado Shield.

This stage is alright in friendlies, where people fight for fun. In competitive circumstances, either you or the opponent is probably going to exploit the stage.

 

[Peppa]

I wish Wuhu was legal just for fun's sake.

 

[Berserker.]

I only play this stage at doubles. Tbqh, don't know much about this stage

 

[Linkmario00]

For explain better what my idea was, take a look at http://smashboards.com/threads/meta-knight-stage-thread.408724/#post-19559811 . Basically what I intended was that only with a stage tier for each character.

P.S. I know link like that are boring and not much appreciated, but I really don't know how to "insert" links in other words (like "This thread" in this message) here on Smashboards. If someone can explain me or link a thread with all these type of information I will be very thankful for that.

 

[Berserker.]

For explain better what my idea was, take a look at http://smashboards.com/threads/meta-knight-stage-thread.408724/#post-19559811 . Basically what I intended was that only with a stage tier for each character.

P.S. I know link like that are boring and not much appreciated, but I really don't know how to "insert" links in other words (like "This thread" in this message) here on Smashboards. If someone can explain me or link a thread with all these type of information I will be very thankful for that.

This is an interesting idea. I'll try to think about it and, maybe implement it if I have enough motivation to

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

Ugh. Pilotwings. I hate this stage, but I know a few things about it. First off, the red plane has platforms below the main one on either side. They both have grabable ledges, so you can opt to go for those mix up your recovery. It might make it a good defense against Villager's bowling ball? I don't know. If you get below somebody on the upper platform, up tilt away. Then there's the yellow plane, which is more like FD. You can stand on the engines below the plane, but I don't think you can grab onto them. Both planes will tilt at roughly +/- 30 degrees, making stage control a little different than normal. You'll probably want to be above your opponent, as short hop approaches from the bottom will get wrecked by the incline. I think you also run faster going down, but don't quote me on that. Shulk doesn't like the tilting, but it's not as with other characters (my friend who mains Ike has side-B'd off stage when the plane tilted quickly). The only real stage hazard is a cave that the plane will periodically fly through. If you are offstage when the plane goes through the rock formation, you'll stage spiked. So watch out for that. I'd imagine this stage would be a good counterpick against characters who have linear projectiles, such as Samus.

 

[erico9001]

For explain better what my idea was, take a look at http://smashboards.com/threads/meta-knight-stage-thread.408724/#post-19559811 . Basically what I intended was that only with a stage tier for each character.

P.S. I know link like that are boring and not much appreciated, but I really don't know how to "insert" links in other words (like "This thread" in this message) here on Smashboards. If someone can explain me or link a thread with all these type of information I will be very thankful for that.

This is an interesting idea. I'll try to think about it and, maybe implement it if I have enough motivation to

I actually kind of began work for doing that in a word document. I was going from forum to forum, collecting opinions by people who main characters on what stages are their best and worst. I stopped when I go to Marth. The main issue was the discussions in forums weren't developed enough yet, but it was a few months ago.

 

[Linkmario00]

I actually kind of began work for doing that in a word document. I was going from forum to forum, collecting opinions by people who main characters on what stages are their best and worst. I stopped when I go to Marth. The main issue was the discussions in forums weren't developed enough yet, but it was a few months ago.

I actually thought we can discuss which stage we should ban against characters and not only which stage go to if we lose. It shouldn't be very difficult

 

[Berserker.]

Yeah. I'm probably going to close this thread once the new stage thread is made

@ erico9001 you said you had a document of this idea right? Maybe you should own the next version of this thread? (Hehe, this isn't the first time this happened )

 

[notyourparadigm]

Alright, so I've been playing a lot of Castle Siege recently, and I'm really starting to love this stage as Shulk. Jump + the second transition is so good. Just the other day though, I accidentally did an unexpected sliding utilt while in Jump art on the first transition. Is this a property of Castle Siege's tilt? Is this Jump hijinx? Did I accidentally perfect pivot when landing?

(On a side note, is this the appropriate place to post something like this?)

 

[Masonomace]

Just the other day though, I accidentally did an unexpected sliding utilt while in Jump art on the first transition. Is this a property of Castle Siege's tilt? Is this Jump hijinx? Did I accidentally perfect pivot when landing?

It could be a combination of both!

See, most slanted floor surfaces aka slopes like on Castle Siege or Lylat Cruise, or let's say stages like Hyrule Temple's tunnel area, or Yoshi Island's (Melee) large tubes on both sides. All of them when going down by falling towards with drifted movement will cause that sliding dash, & when you combine the slide landing feature that the Jump art grants Shulk upon landing to the floor, it makes it look even greater.

So yeah, I'd say it's a mix of the stage's slanted layout & the Jump art's sliding feature. Oh & no worries, I feel it's alright to post it here.

 

[Berserker.]

Gonna lock this thread once the new stage discussion thread is created

 

[Berserker.]

Gonna lock and unsticky this thread if anyone has no objections

 

[Masonomace]

I may have something to post about after the tournament my friend and I are going to finishes and I come home. So either I edit this or post if someone does.

 

[Masonomace]

Okay so I ask to re-discuss about Smashville & Castle Siege, just because the last two locals I've attended along with the tech I've implemented to my Shulk lately is coming nicely with success when I'm doing scrooge sharking with Jump art on SV. CS is just awesome & is surprisingly good for Shulk like @ notyourparadigm has mentioned to me several times. In the last local I attended last week, I CP'd to CS & was able to net myself two wins. This later on lead to my opponent banning CS against me. Feels mighty decent.

 

[WindHero]

Okay so I ask to re-discuss about Smashville & Castle Siege, just because the last two locals I've attended along with the tech I've implemented to my Shulk lately is coming nicely with success when I'm doing scrooge sharking with Jump art on SV. CS is just awesome & is surprisingly good for Shulk like @ notyourparadigm has mentioned to me several times. In the last local I attended last week, I CP'd to CS & was able to net myself two wins. This later on lead to my opponent banning CS against me. Feels mighty decent.

I have very limited experience with the Wii U stages, but I can say that what you say is true. In fact, it seems like Fire Emblem stages are good friends for Shulk in general. When I play 3DS, I find Arena Ferox to be one of his best stages, due to the transforming nature that really brings out Shulk's supreme flexibility when it comes to mobility, and his amazing sharking-game. As far as Castle Siege goes, I rather like it for going against projectile users, thanks to the slopes on the 1st and 3rd transitions, and the statues in the second transition that you can use to block projectiles.

That said, the first transition's relatively small size makes it dangerous against some characters, like Falcon, who can close the distance before you have time to react or breathe.

 

[notyourparadigm]

Okay so I ask to re-discuss about Smashville & Castle Siege, just because the last two locals I've attended along with the tech I've implemented to my Shulk lately is coming nicely with success when I'm doing scrooge sharking with Jump art on SV. CS is just awesome & is surprisingly good for Shulk like @ notyourparadigm has mentioned to me several times. In the last local I attended last week, I CP'd to CS & was able to net myself two wins. This later on lead to my opponent banning CS against me. Feels mighty decent.

YEAH MACE,there's no stopping the Castle Siege hype train! CS is still my favourite counter pick these days. Alas, folks at my locals have also learned my fondness for the stage, and ban it regularly against me now. Oh well, least I still have Duck Hunt and T&C, I love my spacious stages~

On another (more ranty) stage-related note: I'm still incredibly grumpy with the fact that I have to constantly ban both BF and Dreamland when I only have two bans to begin with. I dislike both of those stages in almost every MU, so my stage banning has become almost mindless after game 1. Is three bans too much power for the winning player? I'm starting to think that Smash 4 needs proper stage striking even in games 2 and 3 with the counter pick stages, just because BF/Dreamland aren't the only flaws of having ten or so stages and only two bans... is there a reason we don't do full stage striking after game 1?

 

[erico9001]

YEAH MACE,there's no stopping the Castle Siege hype train!

Just annoying TO's

On another (more ranty) stage-related note: I'm still incredibly grumpy with the fact that I have to constantly ban both BF and Dreamland when I only have two bans to begin with. I dislike both of those stages in almost every MU, so my stage banning has become almost mindless after game 1. Is three bans too much power for the winning player? I'm starting to think that Smash 4 needs proper stage striking even in games 2 and 3 with the counter pick stages, just because BF/Dreamland aren't the only flaws of having ten or so stages and only two bans... is there a reason we don't do full stage striking after game 1?

I think we should discuss Dreamland in this thread. Maybe we can figure something useful out about it.

 

[Masonomace]

Well for one, getting Pineappled is "Not Good!" & sometimes it happens to me when I'm scrooging with Jump art. It's much easier not getting pineappled with DJump & HJump because the vertical increase to Air Slash is so good that you can't not mess it up with only using the first hit of AS or AAS. MAS goes even further beyond that to the point you have to wait until you're too deep. Shulk's amazing U-air range also cannot poke from underneath the stage, so you can't do a drifting drive-by U-air pierce while scrooging from ledge to ledge.

Aside from that, I typed a post a page back that Monado arts aren't directly affected by Whispy Woods' wind blowing. This means that Speed's traction increase, Shield's knockback reduction, or Smash's knockback increase don't apply to the wind push effect, but the wind effect indirectly affects Shulk when say he's running against it or with it, or jumping against it or with it. This can be good or bad, it all depends on how you use Whispy Woods. In Disadvantageous situations, we can bring some good out of it by using the Jump art's jump height and ledge-dropping into doublejumping airdodge towards the center stage while Whispy Woods is blowing towards us. That sounds bad, but either the opponent doesn't catch on to the reaction & tries using the wind's push effect & messes it up, or he's chasing us toward center stage with a mobility that isn't as good as ours per-say. It all varies.

For an example, I was Jump Shulk ledge-drop doublejumping airdodge towards the stage jumping over the platform closest & the opponent tried punishing my slid friction landing while Whispy Woods was blowing toward him. Airdodge's invincibility avoided the wind effect while his Dash Attack was shortened in distance because the wind pushed him back. Just something for thought.

P.S. I know link like that are boring and not much appreciated, but I really don't know how to "insert" links in other words (like "This thread" in this message) here on Smashboards. If someone can explain me or link a thread with all these type of information I will be very thankful for that.

I overlooked this but here, have your link ready by copying it. Then decide what word you want to highlight green with that link by selecting the word (let's say it's "thread"), and then you click this icon in the image below:

Paste the link in the URL box & click Insert. Then your word should go from looking like "thread", to "thread".

EDIT: There are times you click that icon above & your whole sentence or a good portion is highlighted green. It happens, so just click the icon next to it after you select it all to de-link it & then try again. WiiU game pad is notorious for doing this to me.

 

[WindHero]

So, is this thread pretty much dead?

I did have one question. I'm a 3DS player, so I don't have a lot of experience with these stages, but the monthly tournaments are always on Wii U. What are the best stages to pick against Sheik and Diddy? Perhaps info on where to take Yoshi would be good too. I saw that BF and Halberd are definite no-nos against Sheik, and last time I took Diddy to Kongo I got schooled bad.

Any advice?

 

[Berserker.]

Everything feels like a no-no against Sheik. My best guess is that you should just bring her to your most comfortable stage so tbh, it kind of doesn't matter that much. Sheik's really good in any stage anyway. Not really sure about what stage you should pick against Diddy though. Masonomace has a good grasp on this match-up so he could help with your question

 

[WindHero]

Everything feels like a no-no against Sheik. My best guess is that you should just bring her to your most comfortable stage. Sheik's really good in any stage. Not really sure about what stage you should pick against Diddy though. Masonomace has a good grasp on this match-up so he could help with your question

Well, after I asked the question, I eventually thought of digging back through the MU discussion threads, and found a few interesting bits (actually, this comes from Mace...)
For fighting Sheik, the stage breakdown is something like this:

Least in Sheik's favor:
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege

Fairly neutral:
Duck Hunt
Final Destination
Town & City

Definitely in Sheik's favor:
Battlefield
Dream Land 64
Miiverse
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Halberd

???:
Kongo Jungle 64
Pilotwings (banned everywhere except at the local monthlies)

I could see Pilotwings giving good opportunity for UTilt abuse on the red plane, but if a Sheik is smart they'll just wait for the transition. Besides, most of us realize it's banned everywhere else, so it's not looked upon as a good thing to do.

 

[Scarhi]

I wouldn't take Diddy to Battlefield/Miiverse/DL64/Lylat because I don't want to be restricted to horizontal / short hop approaches (because of platforms) against Diddy's Fair. I've had decent success against Diddy on most other stages but since we can edgeguard him it might be good to avoid CS and Delfino.

I used to think Smashville was bad against Sheik but lately I've been doing better on it than on FD surprisingly. It might just be me but anyway it's definitely better than Battlefield/Miiverse/DL64/Lylat against her. It's just too easy for her to keep stage control on these.

 

[Berserker.]

I've also have an easier time against Sheik on FD too because I need jump art against Sheik. The platforms in other stages (BF, Town and City, etc.) don't really help at all when I try to go on the offensive with jump so I'd definitely go for FD almost all the time.

 

[Masonomace]

I did have one question. I'm a 3DS player, so I don't have a lot of experience with these stages, but the monthly tournaments are always on Wii U. What are the best stages to pick against Sheik and Diddy? Perhaps info on where to take Yoshi would be good too. I saw that BF and Halberd are definite no-nos against Sheik, and last time I took Diddy to Kongo I got schooled bad. Any advice?

Sheik reminds me of Meta Knight in Brawl, in that no matter what stage you choose, she's going to perform well on. Tremendo Dude has been telling me some helpful tips involving Lylat Cruise being a good stage to select against her. I haven't played enough against Sheik on LC, but basically you ruin her Needle Neutral game due to the stage's tilting messing it up if she were to be positioned nearby the wing. It also helps that the stage itself can be straight leveled or completely tilted including the platforms, & this favors the usage of Monado Jump's landing friction when using aerials for a cover. Otherwise, I'd take Sheik somewhere like BF / Miiverse or LC. Although, I do take her to SV or FD, but the SV suggestion seems bad at first. It's alright now.

Diddy to me at this point gives me a feeling that stages with high ceilings can stress the character out, since the Diddy players around my scene like to kill confirm off of Dtilt > Usmash for the star ko. Back to the Lylat Cruise discussion, I haven't played against Diddy on LC much, but I'd like to give it a try despite of the Diddy player who goes by fource saying he likes LC. I usually take Diddy to the Animal Crossing stages, Duck Hunt, or FD I guess. Platform stages like BF/Miiverse, DL64, & Halberd are definitely questionably bad for us unless you do well on these stages I suppose.



I have a little remedy for dealing with Monado Jump's usage on platform stages but I'm not comfortable with it just yet.