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Official "We are one with the Battlefield" - Shulk Stage Discussion (Currently discussing: Pilotwings)

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Stage discussion


This thread will be the main hub for discussing how Shulk interacts with the following stages. We're only going to discuss the stages that are considered legal (so we're not tackling any banned stages). Stages will be discussed at a weekly basis (more or less). Also, this OP is still under construction because it doesn't look good at all. Lol. Feel free to revisit some stage discussions if you want

If you have any suggestions or questions, feel free to ask me

***

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CURRENTLY BEING DISCUSSED : PILOT WINGS




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PAST/FINISHED DISCUSSIONS

Battlefield

Battlefield is a stage with 2 features, platforms and a flat stage. There are 2 lower platforms that are slightly above the flat stage (respectively above the left and right portions of the flat stage). 1 platform is floating above the 2 platforms aligned at the center. The stage itself has an imperfect geometry (the under portion) so be careful when recovering.

This is considered to be one of Shulk's better stages. The presence of platforms allows him to use those platforms to easily pressure his opponents with his range. His f-air, n-air, u-tilt, and b-air are most notable when it comes to this regard. Their range is long enough to pressure opponents standing on platforms. In jump mode, you can SH and use an aerial to intercept anyone standing on the lower platforms, which also allows you to cover ledge options nicely since you're zoning the platforms. Speed mode allows you to do the same thing also except you need to FH your aerials.

Another thing to note about your range's synergy with the platforms is that you can even attack opponents from below with your range if you manage to catch them with your hitbox. N-air, f-air and d-air are capable of poking through platforms while being above them (n-air is possible to use for as long as you time it right). One of the main issues with using n-air, f-air, or d-air for this is that all aerials have landing lag unless you MALLC the said aerial. Shulk also has good options when he's attempting to depart from a platform: Shulk can also go off the platform and use b-air or he can go through the platform and use n-air.

Back slash finds some actual use with the platforms. Its hitbox is large enough to intercept opponents while they're above the platforms. You can even land an actual back hit with the delayed hitbox if you manage to space it right. For more info, @ erico9001 erico9001 has provided us with info regarding this:
When on ground, back slash can hit the opponent who is on the platform above you (use when somewhat away). If you are facing their front it is common for you to actually get a hit registering as a back hit, and if you are facing their back you may actually get a hit registering as a front hit. Testing this out - it seems if the opponent is in the middle of the platform (facing towards the middle of the stage), you will usually get a back hit when you are just below the yellow corners of that platform. You can use this to judge distance (it's ~half of the platform). There is a small window in each direction for which this will work. You get the back hit on his front if you are closer, and the front hit on his front the farther you are. As for the full distance away that back slash can hit the opponent (without acting as hitting from the opposite direction), it coincidentally looks to be a full platform length. Therefore, if the opponent is facing towards the middle of FD from the middle of a platform, you can roll to the ledge and back hit his back because that is ~1 full platform length. When practicing this, do keep in mind opponents don't spawn exactly in the middle of the platform, but a little more towards Battlefield's center. Another thing to keep in mind is Back Slash carries some of the horizontal velocity from your run. If running in for the strike, be sure to input the back slash sooner than you normally would. Using Shulk's head (which leans forward as he runs) for reference, the distance is as follows for each mode:
Run speeds not effected - 3/4 platform distance
Monado Speed - 1 platform distance
Monado Shield - Just slightly above 1/2... maybe 7/12. Do a moment before you hit 1/2.
Quick top from Masonomace about BF:
Real Quick Tip about Battlefield & Shulk
Even though Smashville is the current discussion, I wanna mention something I've been meaning to practice & develop for Shulk in case he's pressured on platforms, & that's by using N-air, or F-air to hit characters perssuring you underneath the lower level platform on either side.

Here's a table showing who gets hit by said move while they're standing underneath the platform.

Note: I did not account for them shielding & using an OoS option like U-smash etc..
Character | N-air | F-air | B-air | D-air's 2nd hit
:4mario:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4luigi:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4peach:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4bowser:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4yoshi:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:rosalina:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4bowserjr:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4wario:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4dk:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4diddy:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4gaw:| No | No | No | Yes
:4littlemac:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4link:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4zelda:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4sheik:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4ganondorf:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4tlink:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4samus:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4zss:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4pit:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4palutena:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4marth:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4myfriends:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4robinm:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4duckhunt:| No | No | No | Yes
:4kirby:| No | No | No | Yes
:4dedede:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4metaknight:| No | No | No | Yes
:4fox:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4falco:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4pikachu:| No | No | No | Yes
:4charizard:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4lucario:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4jigglypuff:| No | No | No | Yes
:4greninja:| No | No | No | Yes
:4rob:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4ness:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4falcon:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4villager:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4olimar:| No | No | No | Yes
:4wiifit:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4shulk:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4drmario:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4darkpit:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4lucina:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4pacman:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4megaman:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4sonic:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4miibrawl:(Default)| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4miisword:(Default)| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4miigun:(Default)| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
Any Yes or Nos that are colored signify that they can hit, just not effectively.
Match-ups where in Battlefield may not be a good idea:
:rosalina::4sheik::4zss::4falcon:

Final Destination/Omega stages

Final Destination is basically one flat stage with normal edges. Really, there's nothing special about it. Each omega stage is different in terms of layout.

Due to the lack of platforms, monado jump's art usage changes a bit. Basically, your option with jump art is either to dive bomb with n-air, FF then do nothing, or FF then dash grab. You're gonna be faking out a lot with jump art. Speed art's utility is valuable in these flat stages due to your increased ground speed, lowered jump height and air mobility. The stage lip of Final Destination is rather generous. There isn't really much to say about it. It isn't exactly a bad stage for Shulk. He doesn't really benefit a lot from the flat stage. He obviously does better in stages with platforms

Match-ups where in Final Destination/Omega stages may not be a good idea:
:4littlemac:

Smashville

Smashville is a stage with 2 features that make it seem like Final Desination, except with a moving platform and the flat stage is somewhat smaller than Final Destination's. There's a moving platform that's above the flat stage. The moving platform moves from one side to the other. The platform's elevation from ground is slightly higher than Battlefield's

This stage is pretty much FD with a moving platform but the moving platform changes a lot of things. For one, it helps significantly in dealing with campers. It also can save you when you're recovering. The platform moves from one side of the stage (not the flat stage btw, I meant the whole stage) to the other so in case air slash's horizontal recovery distance fails you, if ever the moving platform is coming to your zone, you can use it to save yourself. The flat stage is slightly smaller than Final Destination's flat stage making it easier to get closer to zoner's since they have less breathing room. The platform has a slightly higher elevation than BF's platforms so an FH in speed art and shield art may not be enough to land on the platform. Same can be said for a SH with jump art activated.

Speed art gains a lot of mileage from the stage. Quoted from @ Masonomace Masonomace :
About Smashville & MALLC
We can utilize Vanilla more-so when we we apply MALLC to a Full Hop + aerial, & the results can be great. On top of the platofrm moving to the left or right, landing on the platform with Jump active can affect the way we land depending on whether we drift across the platform's floor to the left or right for different results. If we Short Hop & immediately use our Doublejump with Speed or Shield on, we can land on the platform with or without an aerial.

Out of all the Arts however, it feels like we get more mileage from using Speed. Taking what I mentioned earlier about the Battlefield's lower level platforms & using them with landing N-air to keep people out from below, dropping down past Smashville's moving platform & using our Doublejump & landing with N-air or F-air can keep people away. Not only that, we can take advantage of the moving platform to travel towards the enemy's direction in case we launch them to the opposite side of the stage & run off the platform to catch them off-guard. Another example of using the platform for mix-ups is to B-Reverse the Monado Art activation with any following aerial for whatever said reason (One example is to sit on the platform as it goes off-stage nearby the opponent recovering to the ledge, & then bam B-Reverse the Jump Art's activation + F-air to edge-guard them from behind).


Town and City

[wip]

Halberd

[wip]

Duck Hunt

[wip]

Castle Siege

[wip]

Delfino Plaza

[wip]

Kongo Jungle

[wip]

Lylat Cruise

[wip]
 
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ATH_

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Battlefield is interesting because Up Tilt is easy to use as a combo starter and a falling NAir is also a great option from the lower two platforms. Being on the top platform is almost never a good position unless you are chasing an opponent.

My addition to this thread, however, Shulk is one of my characters that I love playing but don't play in tourneys because he isn't one of my primary mains. So I may not have the experience to truly know. Just sayin'.
 

MarioFireRed

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Battlefield's definitely one of Shulk's better stages. His Nair, Fair, and Utilt especially lend their range to good use with those platforms and allow Shulk better stage control and provide coverage against any projectile characters than on platformless stages.

I believe someone else said this but it's worth noting that using SH Nair with Jump activated on one of the two lower platforms allows Shulk to easily autocancel the attack upon landing on said platform once the Monado reaches directly in front of him. The same applies if he does a FH on the top platform (not that you need to be up there since Shulk's options to deal below him is rather limited).
 

Masonomace

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Battlefield to Shulk is like N-airplane to Shulk, they're both love & life.

BF gives Shulk 3 platforms to work around with, & it's a blast.

Monado Arts & platforms
Jump mode allows Shulk to SH > any aerial (all 5 aerials work, even U-air & D-air), & the aerial used will finish before landing on the 1st leveled platforms. This means that Shulk can completely cover the ledge-jump option by zoning the platform area nicely, & can edge-guard from that height with long range like F-air or B-air. SH > N-air, F-air, or U-air can poke through the upper top platform from below, or Shulk could simply SH > aerial from one of the lower leveled platforms, & SH > aerial to the upper top platform like pyramid traveling, while covering himself from below when using N-air for example. While it's not as effective as SH > aerial on the lower platforms, Jump Shulk can FH > any aerial to land on the upper top platform in the same manner. And finally, Jump mode increases the vertical height of Air Slash, so just the 1st Air Slash attack will let you safely be on the upper top platform if you feel like using OOSAS while being under the top platform.

Speed mode allows Shulk to do the same thing Jump mode can do with SH, but instead FH > any aerial & it will finish before landing on a platform. On top of Speed's dominating ground game with it's movement & mix-ups, SH > aerials will majorly cover the lower platforms while FH > aerial will cover the top platform in case you're juggling.

Generally though, OOSAS is a good thing, because both Air Slash attacks will put Vanilla / Speed / Shield / Buster / Smash Shulk just over the top platform so you can be safe if you commit to the option.
 
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erico9001

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Oo..!! Been waiting for this.

I did a lot of testing with Battlefield with the various platforms.

Opponent on the lower platforms -
With every mode except for Jump, you will be low enough to the ground with inputting a SH to use Bair, Fair, Uair, or Nair to hit the opponent. Dair can also be used in a MArt that does not alter Jump height.

Monado Jump lands you directly onto the platform with a SH, which can be good or bad depending on situation. The benefit of this is you can use Nair directly after jumping, and the Monado will swoop down below you at any tall opponent below the platform as you land on the platform out of their reach. This also works with Fair, which goes a little bit lower. For the short opponents, it would be possible to do a Dair if directly above them. Of course, keep in mind Dair's small hitbox. This can also be done with Monado Speed using a full hop, which goes about the same height as a SH in Monado Jump. Monado Jump has enough height to land on the tap platform with Monado Jump, but this does not come in use too often. It's mostly nice to keep in mind when doing anti-aerial strikes. Seriously, I think the best part of being in Jump or Speed on battlefield is how well it allows you to maneuver around the platforms.

Back Slash!:
When on ground, back slash can hit the opponent who is on the platform above you (use when somewhat away). If you are facing their front it is common for you to actually get a hit registering as a back hit, and if you are facing their back you may actually get a hit registering as a front hit. Testing this out - it seems if the opponent is in the middle of the platform (facing towards the middle of the stage), you will usually get a back hit when you are just below the yellow corners of that platform. You can use this to judge distance (it's ~half of the platform). There is a small window in each direction for which this will work. You get the back hit on his front if you are closer, and the front hit on his front the farther you are. As for the full distance away that back slash can hit the opponent (without acting as hitting from the opposite direction), it coincidentally looks to be a full platform length. Therefore, if the opponent is facing towards the middle of FD from the middle of a platform, you can roll to the ledge and back hit his back because that is ~1 full platform length. When practicing this, do keep in mind opponents don't spawn exactly in the middle of the platform, but a little more towards Battlefield's center. Another thing to keep in mind is Back Slash carries some of the horizontal velocity from your run. If running in for the strike, be sure to input the back slash sooner than you normally would. Using Shulk's head (which leans forward as he runs) for reference, the distance is as follows for each mode:
Run speeds not effected - 3/4 platform distance
Monado Speed - 1 platform distance
Monado Shield - Just slightly above 1/2... maybe 7/12. Do a moment before you hit 1/2.

Anyways, this is all pretty easy to get consistently after some practice. Getting these measurements, I've gotten decent practice with it myself. Monado Speed is the hardest to pull off. Something to keep in mind is the spaces between the top platform and the side platforms seem to be most similar to 1/4 (probably a little less) the distance of one of the platforms. So if someone is facing you on the side of the platform that is close to the middle, you should be good to hit them while running in neutral at about where the middle of that spiral on the ground of Battlefield is.

Opponents on the top platform -
While Monado Jump can full hop to the top, you may actually find yourself wanting to use Air Slash to hit opponents up there. However, there is something seemingly random about doing this. When there is an opponent on the platform, if you hit them with Air Slash you will often - about half the time - only be able to do your first strike and the move will immediately end with you landing. You will be completely vulnerable with your opponent ready to strike you (since the first hit of Air Slash does not send them anywhere at the top of its arc). This phenomena only seems to occur when you hit an opponent, strangely. It does not happen when they have their shield up, suggesting to me maybe hitstun causes it or something. Anyways, it's risky. While it does not happen if you jump before using AS, this is slower and less surprising. This is not good because if shielded, the strategy can lead to easy punish. However, using air slash from the ground is pretty safe if in Monado Jump.

Other options to hit opponents on the top are to
-SH with Monado Jump and Nair, Fair, or Uair.
-FH in Vanilla etc. and Nair, Fair, Uair, or Bair
-FH in Speed or Shield and Nair, Fair, or Uair.

While inputting Fair for the strike, if you make sure to input the Fair soon after leaving the ground, you can jump again before reaching the ground for another Fair. This could maybe be used to surprise a shielding opponent who has dropped his shield after your attack hit. If Vanilla etc. you can Bair instead and still get the second jump. If that did not surprise them, you have room for an air slash after your second attack as well.

Anyways, that's what I have to say (other than what has already been said by others). I guess all that's left for me to say is while in Monado Jump, you can easily go from one edge to the other while travelling under the stage. You can technically pull it off in Monado Speed too, but it's much tighter to pull off. Who knows, maybe this could help against projectile users or something. I doubt it would be of much use though. Maybe just for teh lulz.
 
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Good input guys. It doesn't seem like I have much to add (Been busy with other things). Anyway, the thread title is still missing :p
 

AlvisCPU

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Good input guys. It doesn't seem like I have much to add (Been busy with other things). Anyway, the thread title is still missing :p
Thread name for stages: "Good thing I'm 'ere? ... No? Anyone? - Shulk Stage Discussion" :laugh:

I'm pretty happy with that - if you guys aren't, you could use an achievement for discovering locations.

[Landmarks discovery]
  • First Steps - Discover any landmark.
  • A corner of the world - Discover 10 landmarks.
  • Seasoned traveler - Discover 40 landmarks.
  • Globetrotter - Discover 80 landmarks.
  • Worldly wise - Discover 150 landmarks.
[Secret Areas]
  • Explorer - Discover a secret area.
  • Trailblazer - Discover 6 secret areas.
  • Pioneer - Discover 12 secret areas.
 
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Thread name for stages: "Good thing I'm 'ere? ... No? Anyone? - Shulk Stage Discussion" :laugh:

I'm pretty happy with that - if you guys aren't, you could use an achievement for discovering locations.

[Landmarks discovery]
  • First Steps - Discover any landmark.
  • A corner of the world - Discover 10 landmarks.
  • Seasoned traveler - Discover 40 landmarks.
  • Globetrotter - Discover 80 landmarks.
  • Worldly wise - Discover 150 landmarks.
[Secret Areas]
  • Explorer - Discover a secret area.
  • Trailblazer - Discover 6 secret areas.
  • Pioneer - Discover 12 secret areas.
I like the Good thing I'm 'ere. Haha
 

FOcast

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I don't have a lot to add here, but it should be noted that Utilt CAN hit opponents on the top platform, but the spacing needed is quite strict.
 

Masonomace

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I don't have a lot to add here, but it should be noted that Utilt CAN hit opponents on the top platform, but the spacing needed is quite strict.
This is something I held back from saying. I remember playing Classic mode & playing the Multi Mii battle before playing Master + Crazy Hand, & my U-tilt did hit a Mii from the very top platform, but I simply though that he extended his hurt-box out below the platform. This definitely require strict spacing for sure.

EDIT: Something new to add: D-air.

I don't have much to say about D-air on BF, but it can surprisingly be a dirty move to use on this stage. When you use D-air as a read for someone's recovery from below as they rise vertically, using D-air to hit with the Beam sourspot hit only can stage spike them in the most awkward way. It's more-so sneaky than an actual Meteor D-air.
 
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erico9001

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I don't have a lot to add here, but it should be noted that Utilt CAN hit opponents on the top platform, but the spacing needed is quite strict.
This is something I held back from saying. I remember playing Classic mode & playing the Multi Mii battle before playing Master + Crazy Hand, & my U-tilt did hit a Mii from the very top platform, but I simply though that he extended his hurt-box out below the platform. This definitely require strict spacing for sure.

EDIT: Something new to add: D-air.

I don't have much to say about D-air on BF, but it can surprisingly be a dirty move to use on this stage. When you use D-air as a read for someone's recovery from below as they rise vertically, using D-air to hit with the Beam sourspot hit only can stage spike them in the most awkward way. It's more-so sneaky than an actual Meteor D-air.
When I actually test it out though I can't make it work no matter what. It's confusing, just like air slashing people on the top stage. Maybe it just appeared like I was hitting them because they were pressing down to fall through the stage right before we hit them with the U-tilt?

Oh yeah, but U-tilt is definitely another terrific option for opponents on the first platform.
 

FOcast

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When I actually test it out though I can't make it work no matter what. It's confusing, just like air slashing people on the top stage. Maybe it just appeared like I was hitting them because they were pressing down to fall through the stage right before we hit them with the U-tilt?

Oh yeah, but U-tilt is definitely another terrific option for opponents on the first platform.
Hm. I'll admit I haven't tested this thoroughly. If you can't get it to work, then it probably was a case of hitbox extending as Masonomace mentioned.
 

Masonomace

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The Mii could have simply dropped through platform frames before my U-tilt reached him / her from the top platform, so I don't know either. U-tilt however does come very close to hitting the top platform's base. It might be able to hit certain characters, I'll check it out.
 

kenniky

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The thread title should be "We are one with the battlefield"
 

Masonomace

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A notable & helpful tactic with Air Slash on Battlefield:

You can recover defensively or offensively with Air Slash the closer you get to the walls, most noticeable when recovering to the ledge on the right side. When you drift to be as close to the wall as you can get, you alter the visual hit of your 1st hitting Air Slash to be performed in a different manner that it slashes through the stage large enough to be hitting opponents who are relatively close, being underneath the middle of the platform or closer. Not to mention a ledge-drop > DJ > F-air can poke through the stage & possibly hit them.

Warning to this strategy is that it can be countered & will likely hit you. Results may vary if the Counter can't reach however.
 
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erico9001

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Oh yeah, how could I forget?...

When you're on a platform you can get down while attacking the opponent in two ways. One way is to run off and input Bair asap after you are in the air. It should come out just in time to poke the opponent. However, due to Monado Jump's faster fall speed, this is seemingly not possible (although, I have not tried slowing the game down to 1/4 speed to see if it is truly impossible). The other way is to go down through the platform and Nair, which as we know, can lead into combos.

Mm, another option for when you're up on the platform is to Dair since the beam will poke through it. Be aware that if missed it is easy to punish, but usually opponents don't expect it on your first use of the technique. You can use this technique in another manner for greater success. Instead, do this while gracefully gliding over the platform. It requires good timing (it kind of looks like spear fishing), but opponents do not expect it. Anyways, this would be best in Monado Jump or Speed; you should be fine if you miss because you'll land a nice distance away.

Let's see... what else is there for when you're on the lower platforms...
Oh. If you're being pressured by aerials while on the lower platforms and you can't figure out how to get free of it, you can activate Monado Jump, shield during the activation time, and then jump out of shield to escape. I did this against a C. Falcon.
A notable & helpful tactic with Air Slash on Battlefield:

You can recover defensively or offensively with Air Slash the closer you get to the walls, most noticeable when recovering to the ledge on the right side. When you drift to be as close to the wall as you can get, you alter the visual hit of your 1st hitting Air Slash to be performed in a different manner that it slashes through the stage large enough to be hitting opponents who are relatively close, being underneath the middle of the platform or closer. Not to mention a ledge-drop > DJ > F-air can poke through the stage & possibly hit them.

Warning to this strategy is that it can be countered & will likely hit you. Results may vary if the Counter can't reach however.
I have had success with this against a C. Falcon who was trying to U-tilt meteor smash me. It also worked when he was charging smash attacks, and he was actually quite a distance from the edge too.
 

Masonomace

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However, due to Monado Jump's faster fall speed, this is seemingly not possible (although, I have not tried slowing the game down to 1/4 speed to see if it is truly impossible). The other way is to go down through the platform and Nair, which as we know, can lead into combos.
Came back to quote this with some results about this matter. Jump Shulk can either run or walk off the platform & drift away while buffering the B-air to connect right before landing. The problem with doing it is it's difficult to perform consistently (for me at least), & Jump's falling speed sacrifices the long range of B-air behind Shulk. Although it's do-able when you notice it enough from doing 1/4x speed, I find it easier to walk-off B-air by moving as close to the end of the platform to have that animation where Shulk is on one foot trying not to fall. That's when you should move forward & buffer that B-air I feel. Though the majority of the attempts you try this unless mastered, you're basically using the front-ward hit-box of B-air rather than the poke from behind.

I would say that it's punishable, except that the large distance of sliding across the floor while using B-air is huge, so the chances of you being punished would have to be from a hard-read like a Zard Flare Blitzing you. . .not likely.
 
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erico9001

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For FD/Omega stages, this thread is useful. It organizes these types of stages by their differences.

I think Gaur Plains is the best one of these stages for us. If we've played Xenoblade (and maybe even if we haven't), it pumps you up, which improves your reaction time. Also, the under the stage lip is amazingly generous. I'm pretty sure that while in Monado Jump, you can use Air Slash to recover from the top of that pillar in the middle of the underside of the stage. Also, on this topic there is that stage spike using the turned around D-throw which works on Omega Battlefield against some characters. I think the worst Omega stage for us is lylat cruise.

-In FD, our strategy with Monado Jump is fairly different from Battlefield. Dive bomb in with Nair, or fake them out and instead land with nothing and grab.

-There seems to be an overall consensus that Shulk is better with platforms than without. For Glory is not very kind to Shulk (I recommend smashladder.com instead).

-Monado Speed may be a bit better on these stages?
 

Masonomace

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For sure. I play on Gaur Plains Omega anytime I play any matches online with fellow bronados, & Shulk dittos on that stage is adrenaline pumping.
*ahem*

Anyways this quote from what I said about Battlefield:
A notable & helpful tactic with Air Slash on Battlefield:

You can recover defensively or offensively with Air Slash the closer you get to the walls, most noticeable when recovering to the ledge on the right side. When you drift to be as close to the wall as you can get, you alter the visual hit of your 1st hitting Air Slash to be performed in a different manner that it slashes through the stage large enough to be hitting opponents who are relatively close, being underneath the middle of the platform or closer. Not to mention a ledge-drop > DJ > F-air can poke through the stage & possibly hit them.

Warning to this strategy is that it can be countered & will likely hit you. Results may vary if the Counter can't reach however.
This same tactic applies to the guiding lips on either side of Gaur Plains Omega. You can even be in Jump mode & Air Slash near the very bottom of the guiding lip & still recover while holding towards the lip or upward to alter the Air Slash hitbox to hit opponents standing near the ledge in attempts of zoning us (laughs).

The only thing to worry about this is versing a character with a counterattack capable of punishing our edge-guard breaking Air Slash, & a opposing Shulk from the Training Mode right spawn location can Vision counter & punish us thanks to the time slowed down. If you're getting punished for this tactic, refrain from being obvious with it by spacing / stalling your Air Slash to be grabbing the ledge with your 2nd hit of Air Slash's startup to snap the ledge, because you don't want to be using the 2nd hit of Air Slash to be aggressive toward them if they're already aware of this 1st Air Slash hit tactic.
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EDIT:
In any case we play on a Omega with grass terrain reducing our traction, be aware about Jump mode aerials upon landing being decreased, & Speed mode going for Hyphen U-smash or even jump-canceled U-smash for extra distance hitting bad landings.
 
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erico9001

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Smashville... well this may seem obvious but it's kind of like FD with a moving platform.

The platform is a little higher than Battlefield's lower platforms, so a Full hop in Monado Speed and Monado Shield will not land on it, and a SH in Monado Jump will not land on it. To land on the platform in Monado Shield or Monado Speed, you must use a second jump (or technically back slash works too). So... when in Monado Speed, you can almost play like it's not there.

It's not FD though. The platform should help us get in on some projectile users, as it's a place to stop where they can't easily just shoot something at us. Also, for Monado Shield, the platform can be another form of transportation, as it move just a little bit slower than Monado Shield's run speed. It appears to move at the exact same speed as Monado Shield's walk speed. Just stand on it and Shield attacks as you move XD.

The base of Smashville is small compared to FD. This means lesser distance in which Shulk needs to cover to reach projectile users.

Travel from under the stage is made easier thanks to its smaller size. Monado Jump easily makes it. Monado Speed has a more difficult time, but it's still not too hard. It is possible for Vanilla Shulk to make it, but it's very difficult. Must already have the horizontal velocity and your air jump needs to go close to the bottom of the stage but not hit it.

Umm, if you're on the ledge, in Monado Jump, and the platform comes to your side of the stage, you can get up the stage by detaching and jumping onto it. Doesn't work in any other art. For other arts you'd need to detach, drift, and air slash.

I don't know what else to say for this stage.
 

Masonomace

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Real Quick Tip about Battlefield & Shulk
Even though Smashville is the current discussion, I wanna mention something I've been meaning to practice & develop for Shulk in case he's pressured on platforms, & that's by using N-air, or F-air to hit characters perssuring you underneath the lower level platform on either side.

Here's a table showing who gets hit by said move while they're standing underneath the platform.

Note: I did not account for them shielding & using an OoS option like U-smash etc..
Character | N-air | F-air | B-air | D-air's 2nd hit
:4mario:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4luigi:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4peach:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4bowser:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4yoshi:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:rosalina:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4bowserjr:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4wario:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4dk:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4diddy:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4gaw:| No | No | No | Yes
:4littlemac:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4link:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4zelda:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4sheik:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4ganondorf:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4tlink:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4samus:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4zss:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4pit:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4palutena:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4marth:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4myfriends:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4robinm:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4duckhunt:| No | No | No | Yes
:4kirby:| No | No | No | Yes
:4dedede:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4metaknight:| No | No | No | Yes
:4fox:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4falco:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4pikachu:| No | No | No | Yes
:4charizard:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4lucario:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4jigglypuff:| No | No | No | Yes
:4greninja:| No | No | No | Yes
:4rob:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4ness:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4falcon:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4villager:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4olimar:| No | No | No | Yes
:4wiifit:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4shulk:| Yes | Yes | Yes | Yes
:4drmario:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4darkpit:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4lucina:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4pacman:| No | Yes | No | Yes
:4megaman:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4sonic:| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4miibrawl:(Default)| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4miisword:(Default)| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
:4miigun:(Default)| Yes | Yes | No | Yes
Any Yes or Nos that are colored signify that they can hit, just not effectively.
════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
About Smashville & MALLC
We can utilize Vanilla more-so when we we apply MALLC to a Full Hop + aerial, & the results can be great. On top of the platofrm moving to the left or right, landing on the platform with Jump active can affect the way we land depending on whether we drift across the platform's floor to the left or right for different results. If we Short Hop & immediately use our Doublejump with Speed or Shield on, we can land on the platform with or without an aerial.

Out of all the Arts however, it feels like we get more mileage from using Speed. Taking what I mentioned earlier about the Battlefield's lower level platforms & using them with landing N-air to keep people out from below, dropping down past Smashville's moving platform & using our Doublejump & landing with N-air or F-air can keep people away. Not only that, we can take advantage of the moving platform to travel towards the enemy's direction in case we launch them to the opposite side of the stage & run off the platform to catch them off-guard. Another example of using the platform for mix-ups is to B-Reverse the Monado Art activation with any following aerial for whatever said reason (One example is to sit on the platform as it goes off-stage nearby the opponent recovering to the ledge, & then bam B-Reverse the Jump Art's activation + F-air to edge-guard them from behind).
 
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erico9001

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Speaking of MALLC, I'm looking into MALLC with platforms of different stages. I'm also looking into using those platforms as references for when to activate the art while free falling from great heights.

I'm not done with the text part. I've just written down mental notes and haven't translated into clear English yet. Unsure about if I should do a video.

I've currently looked into Duck Hunt, Battlefield, Kongo Jungle, Town and City, and Smashville.
 

FOcast

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I've been enjoying Town and City for a while because the diverse platform options help mix up our landings. Also, Jump mode is good at controlling the higher platforms that sometimes appear here. However, we should be wary of picking this stage against characters who are particularly capable of punishing platform landings or using them against us like Rosalina.
 
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Piford

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I'm pretty sure Jump Shulk loves Town, and Shulk likes city overall. City seems to me like a better Smashville for Shulk since he's not left with FD often because of the two platforms.
 

erico9001

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I looked on ssbwiki's T&C stage, and it said that how long each stage lasts is unknown. I didn't feel like digging through smashboards stage discussion to find out if that's true, so I did my own testing. Just did a 20 min match and recorded the times when the platforms start to move in or away.
20:00 - start on first stage (with the three platforms)
28s
19:32 - first stage goes away
17s
19:15 - arrive at stage two
34s
18:41 - 2nd goes away
16s
18:25 - 3rd comes
34s
17:51 - 3rd goes
16s
17:35 - 4th comes
34s
17:01 - 4th goes
16s
16:45 - 5th comes
33s
16:12 - 5th goes
17s
15:55 - 6th comes
So you can see fairly consistently that the flat, no platform part, lasts between 16-17s, and each of the platform parts lasts between 33-34s. The first part lasts only 28s, not 33-34. You can use these timings to help keep track of when monado arts are available. For instance, if you start a match out in an art and carry it through, you can know it will be available again by the time the platforms start retreating for the flat part of the stage.

Other things about this stage: A short hop never lands you on a platform, no matter what art you are in. The side platforms on stage one are a bit shorter than the top platform on battlefield, for comparison. The middle platform on the first part only goes as low as Smashville's platform. Speaking of Smashville's platform, that is the same height as the two platforms on part two of this stage. This stage is nice for Monado Jump to move around.

Those side platforms on part one: our Up tilt DOES reach up through them. Up Smash does not. Also, do not use either Advancing Air Slash or Air Slash while beneath those platforms, as they both land before the second slash can come out. AS is fine if in Monado Jump, but AAS still has issues then. I have not tried custom Monado arts or Mighty Air Slash with that.

The moving platforms in part two are okay to use AS under, or AAS if in Monado Jump.
 
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Peppa

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T&C is one of the stages I prefer the most, as much as I like a grab-centric speed playstyle, its REALLY nice to have a larger map to control some space on, and most of the time I'm playing, my preferred Battlefield is going.
That said I do feel like our follow up game is weakened on both AC maps, due to the loss of steady platforms we can count on reaching. T&C is more or less a comfort pick, because I highly dislike Smashville versus characters that Shulk struggles playing footsies against.
 
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Alright, I have to take this thread seriously. More importantly, we're going Halberd now (I hate this stage with the passion)
 

Masonomace

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Ahhh. . .this stage.

:halberd:

Halberd is infamous for its very low ceiling blast line, allowing characters to have a much easier time KO'ing off the top with moves possessing more vertical knockback.

What this means to me for our Art usage:
The Smash Arts gets a lot of love because we KO so much earlier with UTilt, UAir, & USmash especially all of Shulk's moves. However, usage of the Smash Art is a risky double-edged sword on us for using it carelessly since it reduces the resistance to knockback including vertical knockback. Trust me, be Vanilla Shulk getting Rested on this stage, & then play as Smash Shulk only to get Rest KO'd SO MUCH SOONER. Be very careful with this Art not to mention the Decisive Smash & Hyper Smash Arts, though Decisive Smash used in a favorable position is oodles greater to have than the regular Smash Art, & Hyper Smash is just silly on this stage.

The Jump Arts despite increasing the damage we take also increase falling speed which is a great thing for resisting vertical knockback. And as said once in the Q & A thread regarding this, Decisive Jump has greater falling speed than the regular Jump Art. Hyper Jump lasting for 6 seconds makes you feel comfortable against vertical KO moves albeit the reduced Defense makes any hit so very painful. . .

Shield Arts help in a sense, but Shield Shulk can be vertically juggled hard if your % is not low enough for exploiting heavy combos with a panic Air Slash or Vision from the hitstun reduced by these Arts. Decisive Shield is heavier & also reduces hitstun, allowing earlier c-c-c-combo breaking with a grounded Jab combo or a DTilt, & panic Air Slashes or Vision in the air. Heck, I bet Back Slash Charge or Back Slash Leap can help you get out of those problematic situations.
---

Back Slash Leap can also be used from the very bottom of the floor on the 1st transition in this stage, as well as the 2nd transition. Doing that in order to get the back hit upon landing will deal the legendary 18% & that's shield break worthy with a Buster Art active.

EDIT: Oh, & the cannon & laser are telegraphed enough to be predictable. We can use the laser as a Vision proc to hit someone close by. Better yet, Dash Vision would do so much better to close the distance between you proc'ing off the laser / cannon shot & your opponent. Something else we can do that's hilarious is Back Slash Charging straight through the laser in order to punish the opponent on the other side of the laser but I don't recommend it unless you're rolling a Shield Art on to reduce the damage + Super Armor starting at Frame1.:p Even then. . .I don't recommend it, I really don't.
 
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AlvisCPU

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I honestly feel that most of Shulk's KOs will come off the sides of the stages, so he doesn't make usage of the low ceiling like others can. We may be able to get some early Smash usage in there if Shulk's opponent is silly and recovers high. I don't use u-smash too much with Shulk because it's punishable but I think it could be worth the risk on this stage. The knockback on that is crazy.

After Masonomace's comment, I'm interested to play around with Vision on the hazards, because I feel we could get some disgusting KOs off these, especially the cannon.

This goes without saying, but if you go too far beneath the stationary portion of Halberd, Air Slash will not ride up the side of the stage. I found that out the hard way.
 
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My main gripe with this stage are the ceilings. Sure, we can take advantage of this with smash art u-tilt or u-smash (kills at fraudulent percentages) but the issue here is that smash art also reduces our weight, like what Mace said. I can't really think of the mechanics that Shulk can take advantage of. Maybe the stage hazards, I guess.

The OTHER MAIN ISSUE and the reason why I strike (and hate) Halberd is because there are more characters that can benefit from this stage more than Shulk. I can name 'em:
:4sheik:(U-air)
:4zss: (Up B)
:4zelda: (Up B)
:4mario: (Up B)
:4luigi: (Up B)
:4fox: (U-smash, u-air)
:4diddy: (U-air)
:4metaknight: (Up B)
:rosalina: (Up-air)
:4sonic: (Up-air)
:4yoshi: (U-smash, u-air)
:4miibrawl: (Up B-Piston punch)
:4dedede: (U-air)
:4gaw: (U-smash)
:4mewtwo: (U-smash)
:4ness: (U-air)
:4rob: (U-smash, maybe u-throw)
:4megaman: (U-tilt, U-smash)
:4miisword: (U-air)

You know what all these moves and characters have in common? The listed moves aren't even THAT hard to land or to string into. There are probably more characters but basically, Shulk IS NOT one of them. I make it a point to strike this stage as much as possible.

I still don't know why this stage is legal in with the new engine of Smash 4 and with the new mechanics. It's baffling to say at the least but I'll not digress the discussion to my opinion about Halberd's stage status.
 
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AlvisCPU

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I often find the same thing - I don't have an issue with the stage itself or with any hazards, nor how Shulk performs on it. But, I'll usually end up banning it because my opponent's character has more to gain from the low ceiling than Shulk. Whilst up-Smash/air/tilt are all kill options, 2/3 are hard to land and all of them have pretty poor horizontal range.
 
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U-smash requires a read or a free punish
U-air is generally hard to land anyway but it's not bad or anything
U-tilt is easy to land but it has a strict hitbox

So yeah, this stage isn't bad for Shulk. It's not anything like Snake is to Rainbow Cruise in Brawl.

But since a good chunk of the cast benefit more from this stage, I make it a point to strike Halberd.
 
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Masonomace

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Positional advantage with a Smash Art is a lot more favorable but once we're hit & launched airborne, deactivate that Art asap if you know you're at KO percentage, which is not a high %. .

MALLC UAir's 1st hit to string into UTilt is a decent option to try is all I can think about atm.
This goes without saying, but if you go too far beneath the stationary portion of Halberd, Air Slash will not ride up the side of the stage. I found that out the hard way.
This is why I've treated the 2nd transition of Halberd as the new Lylat. Funny how that wasn't like that in Brawl.:ohwell:

I'd basically CP to Halberd if their character didn't get more of an advantage than Shulk.
 
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kenniky

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EDIT: Oh, & the cannon & laser are telegraphed enough to be predictable. We can use the laser as a Vision proc to hit someone close by.
Wouldn't the cannon shot work as well? Explosions tend to be a single hit thing and the laser is multihit afaik (that's how it was in Brawl I believe). The laser's lingering hitbox might be able to eat through Vision and hit you anyway which of course isn't good.

I don't really like this stage's layout either. Slopes and platforms make it harder to MALLC and the platform is too big to pressure with utilt/nair.

Can Jump Shulk shark with uair?
 
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Mighty air slash would be magical in this stage though but because of some reasons (I still think it should have had a slot somewhere), it's not in any of the custom presets. So yeah
 

AlvisCPU

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Wouldn't the cannon shot work as well? Explosions tend to be a single hit thing and the laser is multihit afaik (that's how it was in Brawl I believe). The laser's lingering hitbox might be able to eat through Vision and hit you anyway which of course isn't good.
WHAT IF WHAT IF

You stand on the edge of the crosshair, forward-Vision the first hit of the laser, and hit your opponent backwards into it?
They may go over the top of it, or be able to DI out of the laser, but it'd be hilarious and that surely counts for something.

I'm gonna play around with Visioning these hazards in a sec, because I'm paranoid that Vision won't work for some of these.

EDIT: Okay, so... I'm starting to think Vision isn't going to be too useful with the stage hazards.
The thing I realised is that Shulk's Vision activates in the direction that the attack hits him, not the direction he's facing.
Worth noting that this was done in Training Mode, %-wise.
Claw - It doesn't do too much damage anyway, so if you counter this you'll get a nice hit (13%) but don't expect anything great. Gotta have fast reflexes since as far as I know there's no telltale sign on who it'll go for.

Bomb/Cannon - This one is incredibly hard to make use of with a counter. Like, stupidly hard, don't do it. Because of the direction the Vision moves is connected to where it hits Shulk, he will always Vision towards the blast's centre. More often than not, the blast radius actually covered the entire range of the Vision so the opponent was hit too far away. I managed to land this once. I had Shulk on the very edge of the blast radius and Captain Falcon next to him, just outside. When I Visioned, Shulk turned his back to Falcon, did the 'backwards hop animation' of the Vision which placed him behind Falcon, and then rushed forward and did some huge amount of damage and knockback. The only time I can think this would realistically land a hit is if the opponent opts to air dodge through the explosion.

Laser - Like with the cannon, Shulk will Vision towards the centre of the laser, which is obviously bad. The only realistic way to do this is for the laser to be aiming for you, for it to hit you square on (don't move once the crosshair stops following), and for you to forward-Vision. It'll put Shulk out of harms way and potentially hit an opponent into it for ~37% (which is equal to the full laser damage). Not sure if they can DI out.
It can technically be done if you stand slightly back from the centre and forward-Vision towards it (like if it's aiming at the opponent and you're right up against them), but your opponent won't be standing there to take the hit. If you ever do this, make sure you know where the Vision will place you - because if you're going to Vision into the edge of the stage or a platform, Shulk won't run off it and you'll have a bad time. If you don't forward Vision you'll have a bad time. Vision too early you'll have a bad time. Risky play, but I bet it'd be hype as hell if you ever landed this at a public event.

I don't believe the visual placement of the laser or the claw in the background have any effect on what direction the attack is considered to hit Shulk. I think they're always considered to hit Shulk from their epicentre going out.

So in short, claw doesn't do much damage in the first place to do some huge counter, bomb/cannon covers Vision's entire range and to make the Vision hit you need such perfect physical spacing that Vision is useless outside of avoiding the damage, and the laser can be used but make sure you forward Vision towards the centre and that you won't escape the laser into a ledge.
 
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Masonomace

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Wouldn't the cannon shot work as well? Explosions tend to be a single hit thing and the laser is multihit afaik (that's how it was in Brawl I believe). The laser's lingering hitbox might be able to eat through Vision and hit you anyway which of course isn't good.

I don't really like this stage's layout either. Slopes and platforms make it harder to MALLC and the platform is too big to pressure with utilt/nair.

Can Jump Shulk shark with uair?
Ye, that's what I meant by cannon & laser :p. Cannon shot can be countered, but only when we counter from the ground. We cannot vision counter from the air. I think the Cannon shot hits twice if you're in the middle but I think it's weird. Anyway, it doesn't have any weird properties with Vision afaik, so if the cannon shot were to shot & coming down positioned behind you & you input Vision, you'll turn around accordingly to counter that direction.

When we use Back Slash Charge against the multi-hitting laser, we're stuck in the laser which is hilarious. You cannot SDI out of it while doing BSC & The laser locking onto you will deal 37% when all 33 hits connect. The last hit deals 5% & it can KO. My advice is not to do this lol.

The Claw will hit us dealing 10%, & we can Vision counter it from the ground & in the air.

Most importantly though, we cannot Vision counter the multi-hitting laser with a regular grounded counterattack. I mean we can, but when Shulk steps back & then attacks, we could get the attack in hitting the other person if you both were locked in the laser, but the laser will trap us. Make sure that if you do decide to do this, get the hit in & SDI out of there quickly. Oh & we can Forward the attack to slip past it without being hit.

And yes Jump Shulk can shark with UAir. Ledge-drop away & drift toward them & follow it up with Doublejumping UAir to hit them while still holding towards the other ledge & Air Slash accordingly. However, it varies on what Jump Art you choose to use because Decisive Jump & Hyper Jump shark differently with their different jump heights & fall speeds including their different height increases to all the Air Slashes. FAir also works because the hitbox starts above Shulk too. Advancing Air Slash can snap to the ledge while sharking back n forth to each ledge, just don't dip too low while drifting to the other ledge.

@ Berserker. Berserker. here's the Halberd Stage research thread kudos to @ParanoidDrone & anyone else apart of the Stage research.
 
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