WBR Ruleset 1.0: Wario Ware in Doubles ~3 Day Deadline - Discuss B4 Voting!

[CT Chia]

The stage list for singles is already made. Pertaining changes to doubles, this seems to be the most (and only) debated placement. Should Wario Ware be Starter, Starter/CP, or CP?

If it is...

Starter - Nothing changed between the singles and doubles stage list

Starter/Counterpick - Both WW and WWR will be Starter/CP and it will be up to individual TOs to make both be Starter or both be CP.

Counterpick - Both WW and WWR will be counterpick.

The reason for WWR's inclusion in this is because it is already in the Starter/CP category, and there must be an odd number of starters for the stage striking system to work.

Notes about Wario Ware:

It's the smallest of all the starter stages which could lead to some issues for doubles with there being 4 characters on the screen. This could lead to different playstyles being needed catering to some characters more than others perhaps making it more suited for CP material.

 

[leafgreen386]

...no. It doesn't matter that WFWR was voted into starter/cp, when if you took a vote on it for strictly doubles, I'm sure it would end up being greatly favored as a starter. Singles and doubles are two different games, and just because something was voted down on one, does not mean that it would necessarily be voted down on the other. Instead of instantly demoting WFWR down to counter with WW, how about we talk about if there should be a different level that simply replaces WW for doubles?

 

[Veril]

Have their actually been serious problems with using Warioware in doubles? I see no reason why the stage striking procedure wouldn't eliminate any major issue with its potential unbalance, which imo is still less than would put it in CP territory. Its very similar to the problem with having FD as a starter in singles. FD is not as balanced as say, smashville or PSII, but the fact that there are 7 stages to strike minimizes the impact of this. You could expect say, Marth mains, to always strike FD as a starter, but likewise the opponent will probably strike Battlefield (unless its a sheik or whatever...).

The stage striking system itself takes care of the issue in theory. I think we should keep Warioware as a starter unless dominant team strategies emerge, and are used in tournament play, that would basically ensure it being CP material. As it stands I would rather keep the stage list the same for singles and doubles in the interest of simplicity.

 

[JCaesar]

Why isn't banned an option?

I vote banned. Too **** small to have an actual doubles match here.

Also, WWR > Yoshi's Island as a starter for doubles.

 

[CT Chia]

the only reason i used WWR as the auto promote to starter or cp is because it's in the starter/cp category. it only makes sense for that stage to be the one to flop around.

im voting to keep it the same, both be starter

 

[JCaesar]

Except that those votes were for singles, making them irrelevant for this discussion.

I seriously doubt I'm alone here in thinking that WWR is a better doubles stage than Yoshi's.

 

[Deleted member]

I personally think that WWR is one of the better neutrals in both singles and doubles.

but this isn't about WWR. I think WW is a "bit" too small for doubles, but I also think the small size would make it an interesting CP.

 

[Yeroc]

Yoshi's story was of comparable size to WW in relation to character size/movement capabilities. There's no reason to ban the stage, it's just one of those things that you have to learn to deal with.

That said, using WW as a starter in singles and WWR in its place in doubles makes the most sense to me.

 

[CT Chia]

Both WW and WWR are starters in singles, how can one take the place of another...

 

[JCaesar]

That's the problem though. We have 5 solid starters, then 2 stages which are better for singles and doubles respectively due to their size. But, since we need an odd number, we're forced to take both or neither.

If we had one more solid starter it would solve all our problems and the numbers would work out nicely. Maybe we should really look into that SSE stage stuff, just a thought.

 

[leafgreen386]

That's the problem though. We have 5 solid starters, then 2 stages which are better for singles and doubles respectively due to their size. But, since we need an odd number, we're forced to take both or neither.

If we had one more solid starter it would solve all our problems and the numbers would work out nicely. Maybe we should really look into that SSE stage stuff, just a thought.

I agree with this. If we don't have the correct number of stages to use the stage strike system with, then we can make one. The question is should we be looking into SSE stages or into modding an already existing stage to make it more neutral?

 

[Deleted member]

since we can't work this out in the cuurent set (just both starter, the other one will just get striked).
though adding an SSE stage is an option (which raises the question which one of the hundreds of options)
I think we should minimize the adding of content to a minimum. not really sure which of the current CPs would suit to be a starter, but I jsut prefer that.

EDIT: 2 quick ideas: something with lylat or freezing pictochat at a certain hazard

 

[JCaesar]

Well this would just be a one time thing to make the stage striking system work with a good set of starters. If we can find one really good SSE stage with a unique yet neutral(ish) layout, I think we should seriously consider it.

I'm not so much in favor of adding random SSE stages as counterpicks. That would be difficult to do in a fair and balanced way and it is blatantly adding content for no real reason. This is different though.

 

[CT Chia]

i doubt theres a lot of unique ones tbh
also a lot of them from iv seen are ridiculously huge :/

and we cant do anything about it in the current codeset

 

[Deleted member]

"since we can't work this out in the cuurent set (just both starter, the other one will just get striked)."

that's for the current set. but next time I think we should have these votes before we release a set.

 

[leafgreen386]

Hm... now that I think about it, leaving a stage that will never get picked because it's no where near neutral to begin with is just going to end up inherently disadvantaging whichever team ends up striking it, since they'll have to use one of their strikes to remove a CP level from the stage list.

 

[CT Chia]

theres a chance it will get picked

if someone is striking it its because they dont like it and is still to their advantage

this stage was uised as the first match in multiple sets at BR2 including vex and i vs blacka and guru

 

[Veril]

NYC Insomnia members love WW for reasons I don't entirely understand.

 

[_Yes!_]

Guru likes it because the wall allows for clinging and camping/stalling. Blacka prolly likes it because Fox ***** there.