Wavedash out of shield.

[Zone]

It's alot easier to get kick out of shields off against players that don't fight zelda that often, Agreed?

Well since I play Zelda so much, All the people I train against know when it's a good idea to block for a kick out of shield.

Basically what I'm thinking of and not sure if it can work cuz I feel odd Shielding and wavedashing out of it with a different button. I can do it, but I can't execute it on demand flawlessly all the time.

If they are expecting a Kick out of shield, would a Wave-dash out of shield(During this period of lowered shields they may be expecting a solid move like Kick out of shield so they throw up a shield.) Well Do you think Wavedash out of shield to Grab is fast enough? lol I know if they simply spotdodge they can avoid it all together. Just wondering cuz of Zelda's annoyingly slow grab could still be fast enough to get a surprised victim. I'm just trying to unlock new options for me than allowing them to just block my kick all together.

Now i'm not talking about spamming this lol

like after they block 2-4 spaced Kick's out of shield. They may get in a rhythm of shielding the kicks. Well if the 5th time you randomly throw that in and grab em. That FAlco or Fox is so dead >.>; Just trying to find other ways to grab than just shieldgrabbing Smash attacks, Combo'ing into grab, or tech-chase to grab. Since grabs on Fastfallers is always fun.

Dunno if anyone already tries this. I never really cared about wave-dash out of shield until I realized I have to be a machine to play Zelda good at all. Powershielding - Spacing - Knowing Priorities.



Oh yea!
Also I been trying to let Falco hit me with lazers to make him feel confident right?
Then I Powershield the lazer right before his grab or N-air. then Grab him while he's stunned on his own lazer. Another Grab opportunity.

 

[Darkmusician]

I don't wavedash out of shield enough. I've seen how useful it can be.

Depending on the situation I'll do things besides kicking out of shield.

And I agree with mixing it up. Zelda can't be predictable. Or else we die.

I don't powershield (not on pourpose anyway) I just neutral B when far away or just shield and wait for them to approach.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I would wave dash out of the shield to a Up smash if thier shield is small. The Up smash would aim for the top of thier heads. It could pierce through the tip of the shield for a hit. Or you could N-air out of the shield. If they shield that, they wait for you to land. and they think they got you. Follow up with her upsmash. it comes out pretty fast. It should hit depending on how distance between you and your enemy. Man, I need to start playing with Zelda again. I have not really used her in a while, I'll start today and get vids

But ya, thats my input on this.

 

[Magus420]

WD from shield to a d-tilt works pretty well when you know they'll be able to shield before you can f-air and they aren't at low damage. The d-tilt shieldstabs a full undamaged shield on the backside of a large majority of the cast when used up in their face which is where you'll be after the WD. Depending on their damage and their floatiness you can combo a d-smash out of it on just about anyone (I think it combos at like 70/75+ or so) or u-tilt to KO (floaties only 100/110+).

Below around 50 dmg they'll start to be able to act out of it sooner than you can. They'll almost always continue to hold shield and try to shieldgrab if anything offensivewise in my experience after getting hit by it since the d-tilt has that weird stun where you flip around and it's hard to tell when you recover. Probably the best thing to do at low damage when you don't have an advantage on them off it would be to pivot an f-smash right after as long as they don't have a huge grab range like Marth or something. If they tried to grab you'll avoid it and hit them (as long as they weren't at too low damage); if they buffered a sidestep they get hit; if they shield you're spaced well and they can't do much; and if they roll you're also safe.

You could also buffer a roll to get away and generally be fine. Also, if you don't want to pivot the smash you could try to DD grab them after the tilt if you wanted to get a grab, but they could sidestep it. Otherwise you'd land it if they shieldgrabbed or continued to shield. Another thing you could do is neutral-b to dodge/counter a grab and catch them if they sidestep, but they can get you if they shield or buffer a roll. D-smash can interrupt the grab too but if they shield, don't grab immediately because it's hard to tell when they're able to, or sidestep they'll be able to get you.

 

[Zone]

I would wave dash out of the shield to a Up smash if thier shield is small. The Up smash would aim for the top of thier heads. It could pierce through the tip of the shield for a hit. Or you could N-air out of the shield. If they shield that, they wait for you to land. and they think they got you. Follow up with her upsmash. it comes out pretty fast. It should hit depending on how distance between you and your enemy. Man, I need to start playing with Zelda again. I have not really used her in a while, I'll start today and get vids

But ya, thats my input on this.

lol, I never tried anything out of wavedash out of shield, except Grab. Because I only recently tried to learn it. I use lightshield alot now for forcing his falco to be in kicking spaced range. I'll give the upsmash a try. Hope it works against light shield >.>;. I never N-air out of shield unless I'm retreating with it. However I do find myself N-air'ing after a kick. and if I land pass them a L-canceled N-air can lead to a grab, or uptilt depends on how that random working N-air sends em.

WD from shield to a d-tilt works pretty well when you know they'll be able to shield before you can f-air and they aren't at low damage. The d-tilt shieldstabs a full undamaged shield on the backside of a large majority of the cast when used up in their face which is where you'll be after the WD. Depending on their damage and their floatiness you can combo a d-smash out of it on just about anyone (I think it combos at like 70/75+ or so) or u-tilt to KO (floaties only 100/110+).

Below around 50 dmg they'll start to be able to act out of it sooner than you can. They'll almost always continue to hold shield and try to shieldgrab if anything offensivewise in my experience after getting hit by it since the d-tilt has that weird stun where you flip around and it's hard to tell when you recover. Probably the best thing to do at low damage when you don't have an advantage on them off it would be to pivot an f-smash right after as long as they don't have a huge grab range like Marth or something. If they tried to grab you'll avoid it and hit them (as long as they weren't at too low damage); if they buffered a sidestep they get hit; if they shield you're spaced well and they can't do much; and if they roll you're also safe.

You could also buffer a roll to get away and generally be fine. Also, if you don't want to pivot the smash you could try to DD grab them after the tilt if you wanted to get a grab, but they could sidestep it. Otherwise you'd land it if they shieldgrabbed or continued to shield. Another thing you could do is neutral-b to dodge/counter a grab and catch them if they sidestep, but they can get you if they shield or buffer a roll. D-smash can interrupt the grab too but if they shield, don't grab immediately because it's hard to tell when they're able to, or sidestep they'll be able to get you.

Thanks for you input Magus, I use Downtilt alot around 80% plus for free smashes and what not for shield poking. But I didn't think of doing that from wavedash out of shield. lol for some reason, I had it implemented I could only grab. I do almost all that other stuff you said in paragraph 1 and 2 mixing it up, cuz I HAVE to against falco -.-; stupid blue birds.

Question: Pivot F-smash u said. are you talking about like Spacing a kick, L-cancel it into a retreated then pivoted F-smash? or... I don't get what ur saying about that.
EDIT: I'm assuming ur talking about some how pivoting F-smash out of shield???

It's funny. My friend use to not care so much how low he landed his lazers. Now that I powershield his lazers. He trys to aim them real low so when I powershield it he just jumps over it lol *******. And now since I tricked him by letting him hit me with lazers then I powershield the last one before his grab. I grabbed him. Now he approaches me and fakes lazers to make me try and powershield then grab me ; ;. *******! lol

Also, since he started lightshielding alot more against me, Downtilt doesn't work as well against the shield so that's why I was asking if wavedash out of shield then Grab, was even worth trying to learn. I been trying to apply it but it's hard to apply a new tool I found, because i'm so use to doing something else in that situation.

 

[Magus420]

If you space the kick you wouldn't need to pivot it. I was specifically talking about after a low damage d-tilt there, but it can be used anytime you are up close at their shield and you appear to be at enough of a disadvantage to be vulnerable to a shieldgrab.

Instead of buffering a roll or trying to interrupt a possible grab or something, if you pivot an f-smash immediately after a tiny dash away the dash + the immediate pullback the f-smash has can put you out of range as well as hit them if they grab or sidestep, and you'll also be safe if they do anything else really. Your other options in that situation would either have no offensive advantages or you could get hit/grabbed depending on what they do.

If they are lightshielding often (I assume you mean just enough to get more coverage not like Z shield right?) you could also jump out of shield and instead hit them with a weak kick on the way down while close to them right before you land, and then f-smash immediately after. Don't do it too close though in case they full shield since you would be at too much of a disadvantage and you don't have quite enough time to pivot off a weak kick which you'd need to do to get far enough away in that case.

They shouldn't be able shieldgrab you if you do that although it will most likely appear that they can depending on how light the shield is on the weak kick. If they do try to grab (full shield or not) you should pull just out of range and hit them after, and if they continue to shield you at least did a good amount of damage to their shield if they light shielded. Whatever they do you should be safe even if you don't hit them anyway. You could also dash dance grab after the weak kick too if you time it well. It's easier if they don't full shield since there's slightly more stun on their shield.

Basically the point is since you don't have a direct way of getting them out of shield you get to do something relatively safe for the most part while still having a better chance of landing something you want or at least do more damage to their shield if you don't. Like if you want a grab out of shield and they expect a kick and shield, you're probably more likely to land it that way by possibly getting an action out of them to get it than by going straight for it by WDing out of shield since they're more on the defensive then and see you WD towards them and maybe sidestep or something.

Oh you could also try WDing from shield towards them into a DD grab or pivot f-smash to keep them guessing on their defense since you cover a lot of their options if they do throw up their shield.

 

[Zone]

If you space the kick you wouldn't need to pivot it. I was specifically talking about after a low damage d-tilt there, but it can be used anytime you are up close at their shield and you appear to be at enough of a disadvantage to be vulnerable to a shieldgrab. Instead of buffering a roll or trying to interrupt a possible grab or something, if you pivot an f-smash immediately after a tiny dash away the dash + the immediate pullback the f-smash has can put you out of range as well as hit them if they grab or sidestep, and you'll also be safe if they do anything else really. Your other options in that situation would either have no offensive advantages or you could get hit/grabbed depending on what they do.

If they are lightshielding often (I assume you mean just enough to get more coverage not like Z shield right?) you could just jump out of shield and hit them with a weak kick close to them right before you land, and then f-smash immediately after. Don't do it too close though in case they full shield since you would be at too much of a disadvantage and you don't have time to pivot off a weak kick which you'd need to do to get far enough away in that case. They shouldn't be able shieldgrab you although it will most likely appear that they can depending on how light the shield is. If they do try to grab (full shield or not) you should pull just out of range and hit them after, and if they continue to shield you at least did a lot of damage to their shield if they light shielded. Whatever they do you should be safe even if you don't hit them anyway.

Hey thanks for clearing that up. I'll consider that option.

 

[Magus420]

I definitely edited that post too much, lol. Didn't see that you posted afterwards like... 30 mins ago since I didn't refresh the page after I went back to it =P

 

[Zone]

I definitely edited that post too much, lol. Didn't see that you posted afterwards like... 30 mins ago since I didn't refresh the page after I went back to it =P

lol I see it now