wave shine help

[Veng]

im trying to learn how to waveshine. wats the easiest way to do so via button inpute? like any sMooth way to do it obv. i know its shine to wavedash do i make any sense? i use x for all jumping stuFf and i dont know if that matters. because when i tried shdl its only possible with y. also with waveshining when i do it right, after the wavedash my shield is still on i dont know why

 

[FastFox]

Wait... What?

Please try to be a little more specific on what you want help with.

 

[Veng]

ok well i just wanna know wats the smoothest way to use the button far as pressing them and also when im wavedashing my shied pops up after i land

 

[ArcNatural]

Use whatever is comfortable. I made the switch to Y though because it's more comfortable for me since I like to spam a lot and do a lot of noneffective things with Fox.

As for the shield popping up, that's because your holding shield too long and your still shielding when the wavedash ends. Let go of the shoulder trigger faster.

 

[TresChikon]

ok well i just wanna know wats the smoothest way to use the button far as pressing them and also when im wavedashing my shied pops up after i land

The smoothest way?

Hold the ctrl stick down for the shine, then slide over for the wavedash.

The best way?

Press down on the ctrl stick for the shine, reset the position, then to wavedash.

Why is it better?

It's much harder, but with the first method you can't reverse waveshine, but you can with the second.

Why?

Because sliding the ctrl stick while reverse waveshining with register it as a shine turn around before recognizing the wavedash directional input, which makes it still possible to waveshine, but much, much slower than not turning around at all.

It's really important that you can reverse waveshine, so don't get stuck in the habit of sliding the ctrl stick.

Good luck with waveshining and try not to illusion too much!

 

[Veng]

I'm assuming this just takes practice. I can do it pretty much eerytime now just can't let go of shield fast enough or get perfect slide everytime... Man watching videos they do it so fast. Also I tried wave shining my friend into the wall by wave dashing in the ground but he always pops out behind me. Gah wonder if I'll ever get good

 

[Veng]

Or maybe I should pick a different char. Since he has so much shine stuff

 

[TresChikon]

The waveshielding thing? Ooh well just like when you pick first pick up wavedashing, most people's fingers aren't accustomed to the movements and are a bit sluggish at first and don't lift completely.

Waveshining requires more effort than wavedashing, so your tired ol' fingers might need a week or so of waveshining before they can comfortably stop on their own.

It's really a matter of practice and muscle memory, when you watch yourself hold the shield up you'll get frustrated and your fingers will take note of this and work harder to produce results to make their master happy.

Don't worry about speed just yet, as long as you can go through the motions of waveshining without
-illusioning
-not airdodging
-air dodging without the wavedash
-throwing the controller
I'd say you're set.

Over time, you'll become more comfortable with the motions and speed will come.

Oh and a very important thing is to try to perfect the perfect wavedash, it'll really improve your normal WD and help out with shine combos. You can also master the distances, I've haven't done it yet, but i see people who do it really well improve their spacing alot with it.

Dont give up, it's really annoying especially when it's just not as long as you'd like (that's what she said), if it's not fast enough to combo, or if it's just too darn hard, but it really pays off.

Unless you really can't waveshine comfortably after a month of practice, then i suggest you move on.

 

[not gOsu]

yep, took me awhile to learn but its worth it
well, im still not great at it..but at least im consistent

and reverse waveshining..mmmm : ]

 

[Hydra.]

im trying to learn how to waveshine. wats the easiest way to do so via button inpute? like any sMooth way to do it obv. i know its shine to wavedash do i make any sense? i use x for all jumping stuFf and i dont know if that matters. because when i tried shdl its only possible with y. also with waveshining when i do it right, after the wavedash my shield is still on i dont know why

What is the link to that chat on your sigg?
I noticed it's people I know, wichita smashers.

 

[unknown522]

It's all about preference. I use Y + L and Raynex uses X + L.

From what you were describing, you are holding the shield button too long.

As long as you're not using the control stick to WD, then it's all good.

 

[RaynEX]

I use X and R. Ryan stop failing.

I use Y and R when I want to waveland onto platforms though. Because the buttons are closer, I find it less straining than pressing X and R simultaneously. It normally wouldn't make that much of a difference, but my fingers are always moving - so every little bit helps.

You can use X and L or R, or Y and L or R. You can even use the control stick and L or R. It doesn't matter how, as long as you manage to pull it out in the end. Find your most comfortable method and stick with it until you get it down. If you're worried about it being the "wrong way", and that it might hinder your future playing - then don't. As you learn to become more technically sound, you'll find a way to do each and every one of Fox's tricks in a way that suits YOU. Unlike other games, there isn't one prescribed way of doing a technique in smash when it comes to actually pressing the buttons. Practice makes perfect.

edit:

If you find that your shield comes up after either a WD or waveshine, its because you are holding L or R too long. Squeeze L or R so that it serves its purpose and the input registers (i.e: the airdodge that initiates the wavedash), then let go before your wavedash finishes so your shield doesn't make an unscheduled appearance.

Step 1: Down and B to shine

Step 2: angle the stick diagonal down/forward, and wavedash like you normally would.

Treat forward waveshines like regular wavedashes, just with shines at the beginning. Going backwards is a bit different, but you'll learn that in time. The most important part of waveshining is going from the B button with your thumb, to your jump button (so you can wavedash), before the shine ends. down B, wavedash, down B, wavedash.

 

[unknown522]

Close enough. My bad, I thought you switched to L.

 

[`DNS`]

I use X and R. Ryan stop failing.

I use Y and R when I want to waveland onto platforms though. Because the buttons are closer, I find it less straining than pressing X and R simultaneously. It normally wouldn't make that much of a difference, but my fingers are always moving - so every little bit helps.

You can use X and L or R, or Y and L or R. You can even use the control stick and L or R. It doesn't matter how, as long as you manage to pull it out in the end. Find your most comfortable method and stick with it until you get it down. If you're worried about it being the "wrong way", and that it might hinder your future playing - then don't. As you learn to become more technically sound, you'll find a way to do each and every one of Fox's tricks in a way that suits YOU. Unlike other games, there isn't one prescribed way of doing a technique in smash when it comes to actually pressing the buttons. Practice makes perfect.

edit:

If you find that your shield comes up after either a WD or waveshine, its because you are holding L or R too long. Squeeze L or R so that it serves its purpose and the input registers (i.e: the airdodge that initiates the wavedash), then let go before your wavedash finishes so your shield doesn't make an unscheduled appearance.

Step 1: Down and B to shine

Step 2: angle the stick diagonal down/forward, and wavedash like you normally would.

Treat forward waveshines like regular wavedashes, just with shines at the beginning. Going backwards is a bit different, but you'll learn that in time. The most important part of waveshining is going from the B button with your thumb, to your jump button (so you can wavedash), before the shine ends. down B, wavedash, down B, wavedash.

I use X+R too :D
also i think you can use the cstick to jump out of shine?

 

[Foufy]

I use X and R. Ryan stop failing.

I use Y and R when I want to waveland onto platforms though. Because the buttons are closer, I find it less straining than pressing X and R simultaneously. It normally wouldn't make that much of a difference, but my fingers are always moving - so every little bit helps.

You can use X and L or R, or Y and L or R. You can even use the control stick and L or R. It doesn't matter how, as long as you manage to pull it out in the end. Find your most comfortable method and stick with it until you get it down. If you're worried about it being the "wrong way", and that it might hinder your future playing - then don't. As you learn to become more technically sound, you'll find a way to do each and every one of Fox's tricks in a way that suits YOU. Unlike other games, there isn't one prescribed way of doing a technique in smash when it comes to actually pressing the buttons. Practice makes perfect.

edit:

If you find that your shield comes up after either a WD or waveshine, its because you are holding L or R too long. Squeeze L or R so that it serves its purpose and the input registers (i.e: the airdodge that initiates the wavedash), then let go before your wavedash finishes so your shield doesn't make an unscheduled appearance.

Step 1: Down and B to shine

Step 2: angle the stick diagonal down/forward, and wavedash like you normally would.

Treat forward waveshines like regular wavedashes, just with shines at the beginning. Going backwards is a bit different, but you'll learn that in time. The most important part of waveshining is going from the B button with your thumb, to your jump button (so you can wavedash), before the shine ends. down B, wavedash, down B, wavedash.

for some reason, putting it like that, even though its so simple, helped me a lot so thanx =).
I'm currently get 2-3in a row counted as combos in training mode against a Link.
I have a few questions though, I might need to post them in another thread but I figure I'll put em here.
1) What major characters should waveshine be abused? It's easiest for me to do it against Link but extremely hard against characters like Ness.
2) Do people consider it harder/easier/the same to waveshine->up smash? I know its been called a combo but I haven't seen it done much.

 

[Strong Badam]

peach/zelda/link get waveshined pretty badly, but other chars like captain falcon, ganon, sheik, DK, Bowser, etc. get waveshined too. usually you'd just waveshine -> upsmash/grab -> upthrow aerial though, because shines don't do too much damage and it increases your likelihood of making a mistake.

 

[RaynEX]

for some reason, putting it like that, even though its so simple, helped me a lot so thanx =).
I'm currently get 2-3in a row counted as combos in training mode against a Link.
I have a few questions though, I might need to post them in another thread but I figure I'll put em here.
1) What major characters should waveshine be abused? It's easiest for me to do it against Link but extremely hard against characters like Ness.
2) Do people consider it harder/easier/the same to waveshine->up smash? I know its been called a combo but I haven't seen it done much.

I feel like making my answer to your questions as bloated as possible. This decision may hopefully help others with general questions about waveshining, when to do it, and why it isn't working on a specific character. I apologize in advance for how long this might become.

Most characters can't be continuously waveshined. It all depends on their traction. If they slide too far from the shine, then you'd have to SH aerial/grab/usmash to continue comboing them.

Characters that can't be waveshined repeatedly (shine->shine->shine) should immediately be usmashed or grabbed after you successfully land a shine. Once you've perfected those B&B techniques, you can start mixing it up with waveshine-> nair/dair/dsmash/utilt etc. I also don't suggest practicing doing more than one waveshine yet. Just practice doing one into an usmash or grab perfectly.



Characters you can waveshine repeatedly:

Bowser
Falcon
DK
Ganon
Link
Peach
Sheik/Zelda
Yoshi
Samus

Characters that can't be waveshined repeatedly:

(Just because they can't be waveshined over and over again, DOES NOT mean a grab or usmash will not combo. Marth/Mario/Doc/Ness for example, can be waveshine comboed into usmash and grab. Some characters, due to their terrible traction, can't be comboed at all after a shine.)



*can only be comboed by an illusion after a JCed shine or in a corner.

Luigi
Ice Climbers

*can be comboed with most moves after waveshine, excluding another shine

Mario
Doc
Marth
Ness

Keep in mind that the angles of certain levels will kill follow-ups. Corneria and DK64 are good examples. Sometimes when you shine they will be knocked into the air or bounce because of the sloped ground. When an opponent has been shined into the air or while in the air, their landing animation cancels out the shine's stun or "pushback frames". They can then do anything freely from that neutral position (i.e. Roll, shield, attack, jump)

Characters that fall down from the shine:

(if you land a shine on these characters, I suggest you go for a thunders combo (waveshine -> jab), or techchase grab, usmash, or any other move you think will work.)


Falco
Fox
Game and Watch
Jiggs
Kirby
Mewtwo
Pikachu
Pichu
Roy
Young Link

-------------------

As for your second question. Waveshine usmash is extremely important in Fox play. As soon as you land a dair, regardless of your oppponents percent, thats a free usmash. Yes, it is a legimate combo. Shine locks your opponent in stun, then you cancel your shine and follow them while they are still in that stun to connect. If it isn't connecting, you are either wavedashing out of your shine too slowly, or not far enough. Another thing to remember is that if you are trying to go for a waveshine grab or usmash vs. a character with medium traction (Marth/Ness/Mario), you have to dash before the grab or usmash. This is VERY important.

Hope that cleared up any questions you might have had.

 

[Eggm]

I feel like making my answer to your questions as bloated as possible. This decision may hopefully help others with general questions about waveshining, when to do it, and why it isn't working on a specific character. I apologize in advance for how long this might become.

Most characters can't be continuously waveshined. It all depends on their traction. If they slide too far from the shine, then you'd have to SH aerial/grab/usmash to continue comboing them.

Characters that can't be waveshined repeatedly (shine->shine->shine) should immediately be usmashed or grabbed after you successfully land a shine. Once you've perfected those B&B techniques, you can start mixing it up with waveshine-> nair/dair/dsmash/utilt etc. I also don't suggest practicing doing more than one waveshine yet. Just practice doing one into an usmash or grab perfectly.



Characters you can waveshine repeatedly:



Bowser
Falcon
DK
Ganon
Link
Peach
Sheik/Zelda
Yoshi
Samus

Characters that can't be waveshined repeatedly:

(Just because they can't be waveshined over and over again, DOES NOT mean a grab or usmash will not combo. Marth/Mario/Doc/Ness for example, can be waveshine comboed into usmash and grab. Some characters, due to their terrible traction, can't be comboed at all after a shine.)



*can only be comboed by an illusion after a JCed shine or in a corner.

Luigi
Ice Climbers

*can be comboed with most moves after waveshine, excluding another shine

Mario
Doc
Marth
Ness

Keep in mind that the angles of certain levels will kill follow-ups. Corneria and DK64 are good examples. Sometimes when you shine they will be knocked into the air or bounce because of the sloped ground. When an opponent has been shined into the air or while in the air, their landing animation cancels out the shine's stun or "pushback frames". They can then do anything freely from that neutral position (i.e. Roll, shield, attack, jump)

Characters that fall down from the shine:

(if you land a shine on these characters, I suggest you go for a thunders combo (waveshine -> jab), or techchase grab, usmash, or any other move you think will work.)


Falco
Fox
Game and Watch
Jiggs
Kirby
Mewtwo
Pikachu
Pichu
Roy
Young Link

-------------------

As for your second question. Waveshine usmash is extremely important in Fox play. As soon as you land a dair, regardless of your oppponents percent, thats a free usmash. Yes, it is a legimate combo. Shine locks your opponent in stun, then you cancel your shine and follow them while they are still in that stun to connect. If it isn't connecting, you are either wavedashing out of your shine too slowly, or not far enough. Another thing to remember is that if you are trying to go for a waveshine grab or usmash vs. a character with medium traction (Marth/Ness/Mario), you have to dash before the grab or usmash. This is VERY important.

Hope that cleared up any questions you might have had.

I can waveshine these characters repeatedly in training mode while getting it count as a combo.

Mario
Doc
Marth
Ness

So I don't know where you got that info.

 

[Strong Badam]

If those characters DI away, it doesn't combo.

 

[RaynEX]

We're talking about people playing the characters Eggm. Not stationary cpus with neutral d.i. Any kind of half *** d.i. away will get the aforementioned characters out of shine->shine->shine

 

[Foufy]

Rayn, your a beast.
Thank you so much for your answer, that helps a lot.
I guess I'll be practicing the shine->u smash a lot more now.
I was having a ton of trouble doing it with the c-stick for the usmash but now im using the A+Up for it and it seems to be helping.

 

[Eggm]

I can also consistently waveshine those characters while they are holding away as well. Except maybe marth. I do Waveshine, to dash to JC shine to Wd rinse and repeat. Generally tho its so hard I just do up smash, but I occasionally show off and have done it before.

 

[RaynEX]

I can also consistently waveshine those characters while they are holding away as well. Except maybe marth. I do Waveshine, to dash to JC shine to Wd rinse and repeat. Generally tho its so hard I just do up smash, but I occasionally show off and have done it before.

Thats a good idea. I haven't thought of doing it before, so I can't affirm that it works personally. I'm going downstairs to try it out right now.

 

[4 Aces]

I can also consistently waveshine those characters while they are holding away as well. Except maybe marth. I do Waveshine, to dash to JC shine to Wd rinse and repeat. Generally tho its so hard I just do up smash, but I occasionally show off and have done it before.

Yeah, I heard this was possible. I agree, it's too much of a hassle to do.

 

[m&m1992]

sometimes when i try to waveshine trough the whole stage i make a side B instead of a down B -.-
and in the most cases i die cause my side B throws me out of the platform
this is p***ing me off

 

[CrypTik]

It's much harder, but with the first method you can't reverse waveshine, but you can with the second.

Why?

Because sliding the ctrl stick while reverse waveshining with register it as a shine turn around before recognizing the wavedash directional input, which makes it still possible to waveshine, but much, much slower than not turning around at all.

I used to have this problem. I refused to reset the control stick because it seemed like too much work. so what I personally do is. Shine jump (while still holding down) then move it sideways. Alot of people make the mistake of moving the control stick before jumping.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i still dont reset and i get it almost all the time

when i dont i turn around then waveshine so it doesnt matter really all that much.

 

[Teczer0]

Shut up Eggm.

Those characters can't be waveshined over and over dammit.

Well.. I can't do it =(

 

[DtJ Jungle]

guys i actually cant do a perfect waveshine after a dair. everything else ic an do it fine.


why do i suck


i bet teczero is goign to come here and say im better than him

 

[Teczer0]

LOL

Why? Thats just silly. Shffl dair then waveshine. Do one after the other stupid.

God you showed me how to do this at MI. Stop acting like you're bad at this game.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

****, or call me a scrub. it was going to be one or the other


i know that sir. but i cant do a perfect one, its a tiny little guy.

 

[Teczer0]

I can't do perfect ones consistently either =(

 

[DtJ Jungle]

dont lie to me

i at least wantt o be able to thunders on command out of a dair.

waveshine fsmash is funny and all but id like to be able to jab too

 

[Teczer0]

LOL no really, I don't think I waveshine perfectly like... ever.

Most of the times it seems like you can hit the thunders without the perfect WD.

And I love to whiff thunders

 

[DtJ Jungle]

so then i need moar frame perfect wd oos shine

which i dont have iether.

 

[Teczer0]

The hell is a frame perfect WD OOS? <_<.

I think you're just making up fancy terms to sound cool

 

[DtJ Jungle]

whoops

i basically meant a perfect jc when you waveshine.


you can waveshine OoS though.

 

[Teczer0]

Now thats just silly.

And absurdly hard

Well... unless you're like raynex or eggm I guess....

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i'd never try it ill say that much

 

[Teczer0]

Why Waveshine OOS when you can just rising pound?