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Wario's Match-Ups!
- Thread starter xzx
- Start date
Croi
Smash Lord
I guess I could see him lying to me to make up for how he is a Marth and he keeps losing to Wario. But that's what he told me :/
So, how 'bout them Snakes
So, how 'bout them Snakes
Lord Chair
Smash Master
gosh time for me to be nice
SSGuy
Smash Champion
Is their any advantage for the Diddy Kong to go full aggro against you? If so, what can Wario do to counter this?
Okay, Snake:
First, I don't know why the heck this MU is considered 50/50. It's not. I know that Wario's bite ***** Snake if it actually hits the cypher during Snake's recovery, and that Wario can dodge Snake's grenades, but it all ends here. Wario's range is almost nothing compared to Snake's, and Snake can kill Wario easily than vice versa (if excluding farting, especially when Snake is recovering + biting his cypher during recovery).
Snake's range and hitboxes are so stupid that sometimes we can't even trade hits, and in some areas Snake is faster than us! >_> And on top of that, Snake has that annoying grab-release on us. Snake's grab range is annoyingly big, not to mention his pivot one. Seriously, we have to be utterly careful against Snake, and Wario must space like an idiot against him. It's great that we have a better aerial game and offstage game than Snake, luckily. And our tires should work well against Snake I think?
Spacing and finding openings against Snake is key here, and getting him offstage is a great opportunity to wall him and gimp him. The only thing Snake has to worry about (against Wario) is coming offstage and Wario's aerials. Ugh, I hate Snake and can't see this MU 50/50 at all. I would say it's -1 to us, mainly because of:
Snake's range >>> Wario's range
First, I don't know why the heck this MU is considered 50/50. It's not. I know that Wario's bite ***** Snake if it actually hits the cypher during Snake's recovery, and that Wario can dodge Snake's grenades, but it all ends here. Wario's range is almost nothing compared to Snake's, and Snake can kill Wario easily than vice versa (if excluding farting, especially when Snake is recovering + biting his cypher during recovery).
Snake's range and hitboxes are so stupid that sometimes we can't even trade hits, and in some areas Snake is faster than us! >_> And on top of that, Snake has that annoying grab-release on us. Snake's grab range is annoyingly big, not to mention his pivot one. Seriously, we have to be utterly careful against Snake, and Wario must space like an idiot against him. It's great that we have a better aerial game and offstage game than Snake, luckily. And our tires should work well against Snake I think?
Spacing and finding openings against Snake is key here, and getting him offstage is a great opportunity to wall him and gimp him. The only thing Snake has to worry about (against Wario) is coming offstage and Wario's aerials. Ugh, I hate Snake and can't see this MU 50/50 at all. I would say it's -1 to us, mainly because of:
Snake's range >>> Wario's range
Go to the subforum view (where you can see all the threads) and double-click the area around your thread's title. It should let you change it to whatever you want.
Also, I would call this matchup relatively even. We can safely poke at him while he's in the air via U-Air and D-Air, and we shouldn't be on the ground enough for him to take advantage of our awful ground game much. Just...go away. It's safe to get the bike out here in most situations. Don't challenge him if you can help it. He's just too slow to have much on us.
Also, I would call this matchup relatively even. We can safely poke at him while he's in the air via U-Air and D-Air, and we shouldn't be on the ground enough for him to take advantage of our awful ground game much. Just...go away. It's safe to get the bike out here in most situations. Don't challenge him if you can help it. He's just too slow to have much on us.
Snake is not on your list.
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here are mine
waldorf2007
Smash Ace
I think of wario snake as like a terrible metaknight fighting snake, because we can devastate him if we can get him off edge. But our range otherwise is just stupid. Approaching from above is always risky, but often a choice. snake can uptilt through dair but if you get him into a pattern you can fastfall airdodge to grab. but then that's always liable to be read. hard. Bite is above average in this MU though, I'm pretty sure.
also rofl eating grenades
also rofl eating grenades
Fullhop B-Air for days.
Ooohh, thanks! Yeah, Wario's juggle game on Snake is really good actually! xD
Iota
Smash Lord
This MU is pretty even. Wario can avoid Snake's camp game pretty easily thanks to his air mobility, his nades are generally just there to catch us if we do something stupid or hit his shield with a poorly spaced aerial otherwise we can just avoid them without them doing anything useful for Snake. We shouldn't be challenging his aerials or tilts, he has too much range and priority in them, we can punish his attacks fairly easily by weaving into his bubble and punishing with an aerial during his lag thanks to our air mobility however.
Going to write more once I eat something~
Going to write more once I eat something~
Croi
Smash Lord
I think it's even. Just from playing Ally that one time, I never really felt that the flow of the match was spiraling so wildly out of hand that there was nothing I could do against him. Heck, I managed to take a match off him (I mean, not to brag, he still **** all over me in the end). But at the same time, I felt like I had only a few options and opportunities to really try and dig into him. Snake walls Wario really well and it takes a lot to weave into him.
So I think it's even, just imo.
So I think it's even, just imo.
One-Up
Smash Apprentice
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=321890
What a coincidence. The Snakes are discussing this MU too. Could you guys pop by and drop some knowledge? Thanks!
What a coincidence. The Snakes are discussing this MU too. Could you guys pop by and drop some knowledge? Thanks!
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Statement: almost everyone plays this MU either too aggro or too campy.
Pretty much this match is even.. why?
Snake has more range than wario.. yea everyone know that.. But what can we do? Bait snake everytime you can. Fair pokes work alot and the most important part on this match is you have to take him off stage so u can punish him , bite cypher etc etc. Also keep in mind you can easily dodge his grenades. Also remember you can dthrow him to dtilt. Bite is really useful on this MU and the worst thing you can do here is DJ Dair cause that pretty much is a free pivot for snake. Tires can give u some control on the stage so use em wisely!.
Again 50-50
Snake has more range than wario.. yea everyone know that.. But what can we do? Bait snake everytime you can. Fair pokes work alot and the most important part on this match is you have to take him off stage so u can punish him , bite cypher etc etc. Also keep in mind you can easily dodge his grenades. Also remember you can dthrow him to dtilt
. Bite is really useful on this MU and the worst thing you can do here is DJ Dair cause that pretty much is a free pivot for snake. Tires can give u some control on the stage so use em wisely!.Again 50-50
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Lord Chair you are utterly brilliant! Such a fantastic take on the Wario - Snake matchup hasn't been seen by my eyes!
Edgeguarding is really where Wario shines against Snake. If Snake airdodges, Wario can punish with Nair, grab and Fsmash to keep him off the stage. Honestly though nobody in my area b reversals at all.... I don't really have much IRL experience with it besides playing Havok and a few other Cali Snakes. Wario's grab won't detonate grenades, so if you can predict where your opponent will land with a B reverse grenade pull, you can keep grabbing them and throwing. Be careful of Snake's Bair being thrown out as a counter!
It's really a rock, paper scissors scenario!
Edgeguarding is really where Wario shines against Snake. If Snake airdodges, Wario can punish with Nair, grab and Fsmash to keep him off the stage. Honestly though nobody in my area b reversals at all.... I don't really have much IRL experience with it besides playing Havok and a few other Cali Snakes. Wario's grab won't detonate grenades, so if you can predict where your opponent will land with a B reverse grenade pull, you can keep grabbing them and throwing. Be careful of Snake's Bair being thrown out as a counter!
It's really a rock, paper scissors scenario!
@Labernash: Snake's nair eats us up! =( Oh, and the pivot grab too.
@Pwneroni: I know, but it's hard since Snake pulling out a grenade takes 1 frame! ='(
D-throwing Snake will detonate the grenade, same with B-throwing him (if the grenade is behind), and F-throwing him is just too laggy since he's heavy. Up-throwing him is the safest, but F-throwing him works fine too if you have time.
xzx: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Iota: 0
Croi: 0
Lord Chair: 0
Buff: 0
Pwneroni: 0
Labernash: 0
@Pwneroni: I know, but it's hard since Snake pulling out a grenade takes 1 frame! ='(
D-throwing Snake will detonate the grenade, same with B-throwing him (if the grenade is behind), and F-throwing him is just too laggy since he's heavy. Up-throwing him is the safest, but F-throwing him works fine too if you have time.
xzx: -1
TheReflexWonder: 0
Iota: 0
Croi: 0
Lord Chair: 0
Buff: 0
Pwneroni: 0
Labernash: 0
Croi
Smash Lord
Agreed, you can SDI the **** out of Snake's nair. I don't think I've ever gotten hit by the whole thing, it's just too easy.
...Are you sure? That doesn't sound right to me.
Yeah, it's true that we can SDI his nair...
Yeah, Pwneroni, I know what you mean, but that is hard to do. Most likely we will be hit by the f-tilt anyway. But I always love when the bike is laying on the ground, and Snake wants to f-tilt us (when we are next to the bike). If he does, he will PICK up the bike! Free charged F-smash/fart!! =D
Yeah, Pwneroni, I know what you mean, but that is hard to do. Most likely we will be hit by the f-tilt anyway. But I always love when the bike is laying on the ground, and Snake wants to f-tilt us (when we are next to the bike). If he does, he will PICK up the bike! Free charged F-smash/fart!! =D
Lord Chair
Smash Master
It has nothing to do with armor frames, those only work up to ~3%.Yup
What you talk about it Snake failing to properly time his ftilt by hitting only the bike, it's not something you can rely on and will likely result into you getting ftilted.
waldorf2007
Smash Ace
if you bike as he does the first hit of ftilt he can shield or up tilt. it only works if you are biking TOWARDS him as he ftilts AND he both reacts badly and (as a result) does the 2nd ftilt hit. tested for like an hour because I hate the matchup.
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Yeah it's a bit risky, but if you time it right then it does work. The bike is a separate entity, has armor and shields you from stuff (like energy projectiles and normal attacks) while maintaining a moving hitbox.
Using the bike to counter ground moves can be really good, if a bit difficult and moderately risky. Best used against low range moves, but if you mix it up and get some reads then it can be a cool maneuver. Imagine doing an instant wipeout after you hit the opponent! You could follow up while having a bouncing bike covering your back! *drool*
Using the bike to counter ground moves can be really good, if a bit difficult and moderately risky. Best used against low range moves, but if you mix it up and get some reads then it can be a cool maneuver. Imagine doing an instant wipeout after you hit the opponent! You could follow up while having a bouncing bike covering your back! *drool*
The bike is really good on this MU (grenade blocking, Snake accidently picking up the bike with f-tilt, tire rain and the bike throw on his recovery for eventual heavy damage to name a few). I hate this MU and I really hate how Snake outranges us. His pivot grab and up-tilt (hitboxes) are just ridicolous!
Never land near him, prefer SH/FH buffered Fair/ Dair/Nair and retreating.
Wario can be a real pain for Olimar to catch due to his awesome mobility, I suggest using hit-and-run tactics. You want him offstage or in the air, where you can pressure and deal good damages(gimp offstage).
Bike does a good job when you want to get in but don't use too often tough.
Bite isn't that good, unless you want to mix-up.
Fart is only available when Olimar is offstage or does a mistake you have mindgamed.(AD, Laggy landing)
N-air will do the job to get Pikmins out of you. Beware of U-air, it can crush you.
This MU completely relies on punishing imo.
Ratio, hum... I need opinions from you guys.
50-50 maybe 55-45 Olimar(I will stay on this one)
Wario can be a real pain for Olimar to catch due to his awesome mobility, I suggest using hit-and-run tactics. You want him offstage or in the air, where you can pressure and deal good damages(gimp offstage).
Bike does a good job when you want to get in but don't use too often tough.
Bite isn't that good, unless you want to mix-up.
Fart is only available when Olimar is offstage or does a mistake you have mindgamed.(AD, Laggy landing)
N-air will do the job to get Pikmins out of you. Beware of U-air, it can crush you.
This MU completely relies on punishing imo.
Ratio, hum... I need opinions from you guys.
50-50 maybe 55-45 Olimar(I will stay on this one)
superderob
Smash Rookie
well since im bad ...EVERY match-up for me is 50-50 or worse LOL
Pwneroni
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,065
Tires can effectively combat pikmin side b spam if used correctly! The tires, if they collide with a pikmin flying through the air, will kill the pikmin (if it ain't a purp) and bounce back toward you. If Olimar is spamming side b, you can block all the pikmin by constantly instant fthrowing the tires. TIRE BARRAGE GO!
If you have pikmin on you, passing through a bouncing tire will kill some of them since they all have separate hurtboxes. If you have a tire in your hand, you can standing Dthrow it to destroy the pikmin, effectively protecting your better moves from degradation and unstaling them simultaneously. I am not sure, but each tire hit could possibly count as 1 stale move slot. Testing needed.
This matchup is very fun and interesting! Wario has great airspeed, so he can weave and dance around Olimar until a weak point opens up. Olimar will be trying to create space and play keepaway, using Usmash and Uair to counter your vertical approaches. His ground game is very effective against Wario, so that is where he will try to bring the fight. Wario cannot challenge Olimar's high priority aerials (except maybe a white pikmin), so be sure to be constantly spacing and weaving. If you bait or predict the aerial, you can punish with a plethora of Wario moves. Take your pick.
Off the stage is where Wario has the upper hand. Olimar is susceptible to being gimped, but if he uses his down B armor effectively then it will be tougher to edgeguard him. To my knowledge, Dair and Bite will beat his whistle armor. Wario's Dair will get armored through, but since it has so many hits the last few will connect with Olimar unarmored.
Wario's Nair and Jab are really good for comboing Olimar! Jab sets up perfectly for a grab at low to mid percents, and Nair (especially Nair2) can lead into a grab easily.
IMO the matchup is +0 for Wario vs Olimar. Wario has a few good things against him, but a smart Olimar will not be an easy fight.
If you have pikmin on you, passing through a bouncing tire will kill some of them since they all have separate hurtboxes. If you have a tire in your hand, you can standing Dthrow it to destroy the pikmin, effectively protecting your better moves from degradation and unstaling them simultaneously. I am not sure, but each tire hit could possibly count as 1 stale move slot. Testing needed.
This matchup is very fun and interesting! Wario has great airspeed, so he can weave and dance around Olimar until a weak point opens up. Olimar will be trying to create space and play keepaway, using Usmash and Uair to counter your vertical approaches. His ground game is very effective against Wario, so that is where he will try to bring the fight. Wario cannot challenge Olimar's high priority aerials (except maybe a white pikmin), so be sure to be constantly spacing and weaving. If you bait or predict the aerial, you can punish with a plethora of Wario moves. Take your pick.
Off the stage is where Wario has the upper hand. Olimar is susceptible to being gimped, but if he uses his down B armor effectively then it will be tougher to edgeguard him. To my knowledge, Dair and Bite will beat his whistle armor. Wario's Dair will get armored through, but since it has so many hits the last few will connect with Olimar unarmored.
Wario's Nair and Jab are really good for comboing Olimar! Jab sets up perfectly for a grab at low to mid percents, and Nair (especially Nair2) can lead into a grab easily.
IMO the matchup is +0 for Wario vs Olimar. Wario has a few good things against him, but a smart Olimar will not be an easy fight.