Wam's Chaos Game Thread

[HeuryAlone]

I'm going to vig shoot Heury Alone tonight if he survives the day btw

I stand corrected. He claimed night ability.

 

[Swiss]

I think Huery could be town here. Not sure I want to lynch him.

Huery I’ll shoot the playerof your choice right now - or just before deadline anyway

 

[Swiss]

Just like your win condition! At least we aren't jesters.

Explain re: Bessies wincon

 

[Swiss]

Ok well that was a terrible post to be ninjad by anyway. Serves me right for not refreshing

But I actually do think Heury could easily be town. Hell of a gamble otherwise.

unvote
Vote Bessie

 

[Swiss]

I can see Tatter going out the airlock by default here which is a shame but I’ll run the gauntlet on that later.

I’d still take Heury over Tatter

 

[Swiss]

I can’t see scum Heury actually going back and considering the vig shot, slightly mis remembering and trying to coordinate post mortem actions which would all be pointless if he flipped scum anyway

 

[Swiss]

Bessie has typed a lot but said very little. Feels like she’s playing too safe.

 

[Deadbananas]

in for a sec

I can’t see scum Heury actually going back and considering the vig shot, slightly mis remembering and trying to coordinate post mortem actions which would all be pointless if he flipped scum anyway

Do you have meta on heury, or is this just a general thing for most players for you?

Bessie has typed a lot but said very little. Feels like she’s playing too safe.

From my understanding, this is general Bessie play. How I remember acting in Sumting was a bit more out of the thread, where she interacted with more obscure posts, where as I feel this time she is interacting more meaningfully this game. I'd prefer to not yeet Bessie today.

I still think Heury is my prime scum candidate. After a quick skim through, he's mainly stuck with Tattertot for his main case, which rubs me wrong since the basis for that was just hedging and now that it looks viable he's pushed for it more. He's mainly focused on analyzing post yeet benefits for him and Tattertot, which is helpful, but I'd want to see his takes on other stuff.

Tattertot is the easy vote today. It's a guarantee town win if they flip scum. I just don't see anyone other than swiss or somitomi being their scum partner.

Worse case scenario, tattertot flips town, swiss should still use vig shot d2 to clear themself, and scum is among swiss, somi, and laserguy.

HeuryAlone Why does Tattertont being scum vs being town only change with Laserguy in your books? If he flips town you don't think anyone else could be mafia?

no rush on the response, I'll hopefully be able to be on late tonight.

 

[Swiss]

^ I have no meta on any player other than Ran. And frankly I don’t remember his PlayStyle just my overall opinion of him

 

[Swiss]

DB full reads when you can please ty

 

[HeuryAlone]

HeuryAlone HeuryAlone Why does Tattertont being scum vs being town only change with Laserguy in your books? If he flips town you don't think anyone else could be mafia?

Laserguy is my weakest town read and I really believe ranmaru, sabrar, and Bessie are town. (You're my next weakest town read). But I've already mentioned that mafia would be two of laserguy, swiss, amd somi, so laserguy could be town with swiss and somi as the mafia. If two of these are town and Im wrong and need to find another suspect, then you, deadbanana , would then be my next suspect.

 

[HeuryAlone]

Huery I’ll shoot the playerof your choice right now - or just before deadline anyway

Right before deadline as in before the day ends? You seem to be changing whether your ability triggers during day or night as if you don't know, which makes me doubt the existence of your vig shot. Which is it? If it is day shot, waiting for d2 would be best.

 

[Swiss]

Ah...you still...

nvm

 

[bessie]

Just like your win condition! At least we aren't jesters.

This comment seems out of place to me. Heury what do you think of somitomi's reaction to your post in his #306 ?

I did see this

I mean eh - I see nothing worth mentioning

No idea what boomfrog is but I skim a lot

Did you think of asking about my reads list, or are you not interested in my thought process, just my lynchability?

Also I finally found the Atheist post

Whyy does it matter

Because Sabrar made an illegal vote which you did not comment on; I commented on it as typical for him in my opening post #42 , and you didn’t ask why I believed it to be a typical post for Sabrar. If Sabrar is in your scum pool, aren’t you interested in analyzing their behavior and assuring yourself that you are making an informed choice? Or are you just fishing for reactions?

I expect information greater than 0. Which is what we get if he doesn’t claim.

By all means fast track the lynch it’s not a hill for me to die on

I was going to say we will get the information on the day's yeet when they flip. But thinking about it more, I’m actually not sure if Wam plans to post the flips at end of day (which would be typical for this site), or wait until the start of the new day (like our home site). So this concern becomes slightly more valid. But doesn’t matter, I’m still against claiming.

Ok, but I still don't recall seeing anyone do this before. Town may go easier into that good night, but that doesn't mean running into it headfirst with more than a day and a half left.

I will see if I can find references I can link, but not at the expense of analyzing this game, since any references would be in the internet archive and very tedious to search. But sometimes, when a town player is a distraction, it is better for town to step back and not fight it when town can still recover from a mislynch. SDK did this in Meta Mafia II (unfortunately not in the Wayback Machine), see also Synchronicity in Things I Like Mafia (on this forum).

Ok well that was a terrible post to be ninjad by anyway. Serves me right for not refreshing

But I actually do think Heury could easily be town. Hell of a gamble otherwise.

unvote
Vote Bessie

Your case please?

 

[HeuryAlone]

Hang on a second, is Heury arguing for their own elimination now? What is this world?

I don't see anything wrong with analyzing the pros or cons as to why someone should be voted, and in this case it happens to be me. Even a mislynch gives us information. Of course we want to vote mafia, but I think a good vote is one that has a good chance of flipping scum, but also gives us enough information if flips town to make it worth the mislynch. For example: I think the tattertot vote is good, because no matter the flip it narrows down the search. Now, Somi, what are the pros you'd say for voting you?

It's in my reads list, I think your arguments for pushing Tattertot aren't great, especially the one about new players being difficult to read. I'm also dubious about how much information we get from the flip of a newbie who's been suspect to most of us (partly because of the aforementioned difficulty).

Ok, guess you actually missed that list, because bessie is still a town lean, just not a strong one. As for fluff, it doesn't equal scum by any stretch of the imagination, it's not even a strong tell or anything, but it's a hint.

That is my fault for missing your reads list, but still sabrar, laserguy and I instantly had a town read on Bessie based on tone while yours was a weak one and I would think you would've recognized it as quickly.

 

[Deadbananas]

Full reads, I kinda suck at reasoned readlists, and gotta zoom since my girlfriend will be done with lunch soon, so these will be short notes. Kinda hypocritical of me for going in on Swiss about no reasoning for me to only give a little but C'est La vei. To quote Swiss " Don't be lazy" my reasoning is in my posts

Spoiler: Reads

Town
Ranmaru - Obviously town. Playing very similar to Ranmaru in sumting sumting. Unafraid to push anyone he has suspicion of and while I haven't agreed with all his points and pushes, I can see the reasoning behind them, and the conviction Ranmaru has behind his pushes speak to them being genuine. What raised him higher for me was how he connected Laser and Tattertot, and took Swiss out as scum. While I disagree, I don't think mafia would want to go so hard in on a specific team, since that closes out their options.

Bessie - Meta-read substantiated by multiple other people in the thread. Feels like Bessie is unafraid to get into meatier posts and arguments, but I haven't seen a biased skew to her posts yet.

Somitomi - I think Somi has brought up good points on Heury and Swiss, and had original takes that they seemed to actually believe and were able to explain when questioned. I've liked the tone they've addressed this game with, people have said Somi tends to be more snarky when town, and I've seen that this game.

Sabrar - mindmelded a bit with them on Heury. I remember when I was reading through backlog I kept quoting Heury posts to ask him questions then I'd scroll down a bit and see Sabrar address bring up those questions I had.

Laserguy - Already talked a lot about laserguy here. Haven't been able to read much of his new posts, but his defense didn't ping me on a quick skim through as anything scummy.

Tattertot - I've talked a lot about Tatter too, my ISO is here, and I know I had some thoughts on his readslist later. I think Tattertot definitely has the potential to be scum, but has certain aspects that make me feel he is town. I think he will sort himself out after this day since we will be able to get a look at his overall progression and motives since they aren't hard to spot from his posts.

Swiss - I don't like the push to end the day early, or the interaction with Sabrar and some other slots very much. I think Swiss has the tendency to sweep past points against him or brush them off. There are definitely things to like about Swiss, but I feel his motives over all have been scum positive. I'd prefer not to yeet though because of Vig claim for today, but I'd rather vote him then someone higher on my list.

Heury - I've gone into Heury a bit, here's my ISO. I give the rest of my opinion here.

Scum

I ended up typing more than I intended, I'll try to be back late tonight, but I'll probably be very tired.

 

[Swiss]

^Says he won’t give in depth reasoning - gives in depth reasoning.

The towniness hurts my eyes

 

[Wam]

Vote count - 5 votes to lynch

Tattertot - 2 - Ranmaru, Heury alone,
Huery alone- 1 - Deadbananas,
Somitomi - 1 - Laserguy
Swiss - 1 - somitomi
Ranmaru - 1 - sabrar
Bessie - 1 - Swiss

Not voting
Bessie
tattertot

Deadline 12 pm GMT Sunday 21st in less than 16 hours: Countdown Timer

 

[Sabrar]

Deadline 12 pm GMT Sunday 21st in less than 12 hours: Countdown Timer

Timer shows more than 15 hours remaining, this must be a typo.

 

[Wam]

Timer shows more than 15 hours remaining, this must be a typo.

Fixed.

 

[LaserGuy]

Everyone should be thinking about their top 2-3 choices for the yeet. Deadline is at 5 am for me so I definitely won't be around and I imagine it will be similar for many others.

I'm looking at somitomi, Swiss and, hmm, I guess Tattertot. We don't technically need a majority, but we shouldn't have someone yeeted off of a few votes.

 

[bessie]

Yes I just realized a little while ago that deadline was 5 am our time, I had noon stuck in my mind. I just did a reread and am organizing my notes now.

 

[Swiss]

Tatter you can post as well as just liking my comments.

 

[somitomi]

somitomi Interested in seeing your updated reads list with reasoning when you have the chance. (Town reads too)

Sorry, meant to do this in the afternoon but then got distracted.

I will see if I can find references I can link, but not at the expense of analyzing this game, since any references would be in the internet archive and very tedious to search. But sometimes, when a town player is a distraction, it is better for town to step back and not fight it when town can still recover from a mislynch. SDK did this in Meta Mafia II (unfortunately not in the Wayback Machine), see also Synchronicity in Things I Like Mafia (on this forum).

No need, I'll take your archivist word for it, since I understand the underlying concept. I've just never seen such a thing and it was quite early to call the Heury-wagon a done deal, so I was a bit surprised by it.

I don't see anything wrong with analyzing the pros or cons as to why someone should be voted, and in this case it happens to be me. Even a mislynch gives us information. Of course we want to vote mafia, but I think a good vote is one that has a good chance of flipping scum, but also gives us enough information if flips town to make it worth the mislynch. For example: I think the tattertot vote is good, because no matter the flip it narrows down the search. Now, Somi, what are the pros you'd say for voting you?

I think my death wouldn't be very informative, since I haven't been at the center of much attention and I'm somewhere around the middle of most reads. LaserGuy and Ran had a discussion about me, so my flip would perhaps provide insight into their alignment, especially on Ranmaru's side of things.
I could sit back, relax and enjoy an evening with Jethro Tull though...

That is my fault for missing your reads list, but still sabrar, laserguy and I instantly had a town read on Bessie based on tone while yours was a weak one and I would think you would've recognized it as quickly.

Weak by what measure? What makes a tone read "stronger" than a read based on content? I genuinely don't know what I should've recognised here considering it's D1 and my reads are probably completely wrong anyway.

=yay=
Deadbananas: seems to pay attention and analyse pretty much anything that goes on in the game and fairly open about their state of mind at any point
Ranmaru and Sabrar somehow occupy the same space in my head. Ranmaru is decidedly less eccentric than usual but their current approach and tone feels town to me.
bessie: still fee like her early posts had more fluff than usual, but her last post is pretty much what I expected from her at this stage.
LaserGuy: moved down a little because Ranmaru's case made me realise LaserGuy is a player I can't read very well. Also a mild case of OMGUS
Tattertot: keeps hanging around in the vaguely suspicious pile for selectively answering questions directed at them and missing LaserGuy
Heury: tough one this, because on one hand
Swiss: all-around not very helpful: didn't really answer my (or Sabrar's) questions about the difference between their reaction to Sabrar and to Heury talking about their scum meta. The attempt to strongly link me and Heury was also very weird, especially now that they jumped off the Heury wagon they were so concered I'd derail earlier.
=nay=

 

[Swiss]

" didn't really answer my (or Sabrar's) questions about the difference between their reaction to Sabrar and to Heury talking about their scum meta. "

Man I've gone over this like nine times. I was tunnelling Sabrar - yet still commented on Heury's. How is this so hard for you to grasp.

 

[Swiss]

Heury: tough one this, because on one hand

?

 

[Swiss]

I'll be in before hammer to swap vote off Bessie. Not sure why I bothered swapping vote really. The hubris of youth.

 

[Swiss]

Sabrar
Is your vote staying on Ran?

 

[somitomi]

?

See kids, this is what happens when you spend two hours writing one damn post and don't proofread it afterwards. Here's what the rest of that sentence should look like:
So heury's a tough one, I didn't like their takes on Tattertot and I feel like the "yeet for information" attitude is a good way for scum to do less scumhunting, but their fairly calm response to possibly being eliminated feels townie.

 

[Swiss]

=yay=
Deadbananas: seems to pay attention and analyse pretty much anything that goes on in the game and fairly open about their state of mind at any point
Ranmaru and Sabrar somehow occupy the same space in my head. Ranmaru is decidedly less eccentric than usual but their current approach and tone feels town to me.
bessie: still fee like her early posts had more fluff than usual, but her last post is pretty much what I expected from her at this stage.
LaserGuy: moved down a little because Ranmaru's case made me realise LaserGuy is a player I can't read very well. Also a mild case of OMGUS
Tattertot: keeps hanging around in the vaguely suspicious pile for selectively answering questions directed at them and missing LaserGuy
Heury: tough one this, because on one hand
Swiss: all-around not very helpful: didn't really answer my (or Sabrar's) questions about the difference between their reaction to Sabrar and to Heury talking about their scum meta. The attempt to strongly link me and Heury was also very weird, especially now that they jumped off the Heury wagon they were so concered I'd derail earlier.
=nay=

Nothing on Sabrar?

 

[Swiss]

Also I do not want to wake up to a last minute wagon on me because I'm "not helpful"

 

[ranmaru]

LaserGuy Will you be around to answer my #385?

 

[Swiss]

Sabrar LaserGuy Tattertot bessie

Your votes are useless where they are

 

[bessie]

Swiss, I'm still writing up my reads, I was trying to get them posted before the players in Europe (you, somitomi, and Sabrar) signed off for the night, but as I analyze, my thoughts keep meandering, and I want to cover it all. This is my current reads list, analysis to follow soon.

Woof
bessie
Deadbananas
Ranmaru
LaserGuy
Sabrar
BoomFrog
Swiss
HeuryAlone
Tattertot
somitomi
Grr

 

[somitomi]

Man I've gone over this like nine times. I was tunnelling Sabrar - yet still commented on Heury's. How is this so hard for you to grasp.

It just sounds strange that you were already tunneling about 50 posts into the game. Did you start the game tunneling Sabrar?

Nothing on Sabrar?

The second half of that sentence about the tone feeling town applies to Sabrar too, although I do see that I worded that confusingly.

I'm singing off for the evening, hopefully I'll be able to check in right before the deadline but it' not guaranteed.

 

[Swiss]

Lol Somi - it normally takes a lot less than 50 posts

 

[Swiss]

Also singing off - will be on before deadline

 

[LaserGuy]

LaserGuy Will you be around to answer my #385?

I will answer this evening, don't have time right now.

 

[Tattertot]

Vote: ranmaru
Reason: #236

 

[ranmaru]

bessie Look forward to your analysis and who you want to vote and why.