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Waluigi for Project:M finally released - everything should be all good now

Nefnoj

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I guess it's just a nit-picky thing, but when I play regular PM I often forget that I'm playing a mod. When I try other PSAs I heavily feel that I'm playing a mod. This one is something different though. He blends into PM very well and I haven't experienced that with any other mod. ...But then I cycle through his costumes and am filled with questions. I don't know, I guess I just want this mod to feel as sharpened and professional as most of the rest of PM and I feel like taking out silly in-your-face references like that would be a good step in that direction.

Then again, it's not my mod. Those are my feelings on it though, take them as you will I guess.
You have a very good point. However, Waluigi is very much a unique character, and a special case. With many characters, we love them, not as how the game developers define them, but how we do. Gordon Freeman, Link, Samus, all very bland characters that the player imprints themselves on.

Waluigi, oddly enough, is a similar case, not exactly the same, but similar. Nintendo's neglected him, so the weird culture that is the internet has filled in the blanks. This mod's been afflicted by our imprint, his standard special is an example, that justifies it in my head. I don't even like Walurambo, the model needs some help, the neck doesn't fit the hot chest, and he has two layers of hair, but it still fits what the community's turned him into.

I think the biggest problem is that each costume has a different CSP pose. I got some o' Nano's renders for that issue though: http://smashboards.com/threads/nanos-csps.349681/
 

UltraMegaSuperWario

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Dear Marioking64DS.

You are truly, truly awesome.

Do you have a Patrion or something so that I can throw gold coins at you?
 

Stormghetti

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Hello.

I'm using Homebrew, so my problem is that when I put my "projectm" folder inside the root of my SD card along with this mod's "projectm" folder, when I go ingame, either the CSS is empty or it loads random characters with no CSS icon that crash when you move your cursor towards them.

I'm a PAL user, but I use a method to play PM in PAL, so I assume this SHOULD also work for Waluigi. What's the problem?
 
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Olhi

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I'm a PAL user, but I use a method to play PM in PAL, so I assume this SHOULD also work for Waluigi. What's the problem?
What are the sizes of your SD Cards? What's your method to play in PAL?

EDIT: "I'm using Homebrew, so my problem is that when I put my "projectm" folder inside the root of my SD card along with this mod's "projectm" folder"

What? Did you try to put just the contents of the Mod's PM folder in the SD Root, along with the USB Loader that you're probably using?
 
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Stormghetti

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What are the sizes of your SD Cards? What's your method to play in PAL?

EDIT: "I'm using Homebrew, so my problem is that when I put my "projectm" folder inside the root of my SD card along with this mod's "projectm" folder"

What? Did you try to put just the contents of the Mod's PM folder in the SD Root, along with the USB Loader that you're probably using?
32 GBs if I'm not wrong. Using an ISO, USBLoader and some cheat codes so PM can be booted.

I put the original Project M folder (non-modded) and then the mod's Project M folder inside of it.

I've tried Project Ganondorf a long time ago and it worked fine, but Waluigi doesn't work.
 
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Stormghetti

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But, why? I'm pretty sure it would work if you'd just copy the content from the modded package.
I tried that, but the Waluigi mod doesn't contain all of PM's files.
 

Stormghetti

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The first download links didn't. The newest one from Mega.nz (This one I believe) works perfectly for me, except for the 2 bugs that have been mentioned in this thread.
I don't know if I downloaded the right one from MEGA, but I guess I'll download it again?
 

Olhi

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I don't know if I downloaded the right one from MEGA, but I guess I'll download it again?
Yes. I sadly can't tell you which one I downloaded, but I know there is one version that works.

Also, did the normal PM work with the same SD Card?
 

Stormghetti

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Yes. I sadly can't tell you which one I downloaded, but I know there is one version that works.

Also, did the normal PM work with the same SD Card?
I mean, the bugs shouldn't happen with normal PM, but I didn't try. I'm pretty sure normal PM should work (I've played normal PM before with this SD card).
 

Olhi

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Normal PM works, but the mod you sent me keeps giving me the same issue.
I downloaded it, and it works perfectly fine. My only guess would be that you need to update your IOS, but if you used the normal PM with that SD Card on the same Wii, I'm clueless.
 

nickultra

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Jul 30, 2016
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Awesome mod, very polished and professional feel. I love what you did with the character, he plays like the mario bros and wario mixed together and I main both wario and mario so i really appreciate this. As for balance it seems like you guys played this one pretty safe. I have played around with him a lot i can say that his combo game is on the stronger side and easy to master (just as mario's). I also like ftilt having reflectablity, that was a good touch; granting him anti-zoning abilities. His vertical recovery is BAD, like a worse version of Wario considering his terrible horizontal aerial mobility (what i consider his weakest point). Also his high short hop makes it hard to approach paired with his poor/decent wavedash. His edge gaurding game is a nerfed version of mario's (imo). His mario-esc bair, although I'm pretty sure the hitbox is longer, feels slow and lanky compared to mario or luigi. He also isn't the most powerful character (like wario) and he doesn't have any ace-in-the-hole to make up for it (ie solarbeam, waft). So far i would consider him low tier (relatively, but not low tier by melee of brawl standards in which there is much higher deviation) and outclassed by Wario and Mario Bros.. But his competitive weaknesses don't take away from how much i enjoy playing as Walugi. I love the unique feel and the style you guys gave him. I am disappointed he wasn't given any bomb-omb related tools considering he has been known to enjoy them. In conclusion, great mod, could use a few buffs (could be wrong), and maybe a bomb-omb, otherwsie, incredible work.

ps. sweetspotting the up air off an up throw feels delicious.
 
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Nefnoj

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**** Dastardly inspired alt. Will likely replace Walurambo.
I criticised Walurambo,
and now I must face the consequences.

Joking aside, I think Walurambo is more iconic to Waluigi than this "**** Dastardly" thing. I've never even heard of this dastardly ****, I don't think it's specific to the character.

I'd recommend garbage WarioWare character outfits like Jimmy T. or Dr. Crygor, maybe a reference to Psycho Waluigi, or a few community favourite artwork pieces, like that Meowaluigi, or R̶3̶4 tuxedo Waluigi, when all else fails.

Though he's your character, you're the 3D Artist, and if you do a **** Dastardly outfit, I'll probably use it anyway just 'cause coats are sexy.
Good luck getting that rig to work. You could probably use a few Havok physics if you aren't already, maybe attach bits of the trench coat to the leg, though that might look a bit weird with the down-smash.
 
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Angelglory

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tfw you happen to glance into the files in the download while adding WAH to your personal build and find cool things pointing to future cool things.
 
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Stormghetti

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Ugh... Then I'll wait for someone to tell me what's the solution. @-@
 

nickultra

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Ugh... Then I'll wait for someone to tell me what's the solution. @-@
All I can think of is that you aren't patching the files right. I would delete all project m files on your sd card, redownload project m homebrew, copy all project m files into the root, then do the same for the waluigi mod. And be sure to copy and replace... That seems to simple but I don't know any reason you'd have that strange issue.
 

Stormghetti

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All I can think of is that you aren't patching the files right. I would delete all project m files on your sd card, redownload project m homebrew, copy all project m files into the root, then do the same for the waluigi mod. And be sure to copy and replace... That seems to simple but I don't know any reason you'd have that strange issue.
I've done all of that already.
 

Time/SpaceMage

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@Marioking64DS
So I noticed on your YT, you had videos with Ridley and allusions to future work on K. Rool (*squee!*) and Black Shadow. Do those have a development topic, or can we discuss them here too?

EDIT: Oh, I see from the comments that Ridley was someone else's. Still, that was pretty cool.
 
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RedCommunist

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WALUIGI TIME!
Now if only I could find a way to add Lyn and Lucina and Knuckles to Project M with Kirby Hats WITHOUT losing my precious, precious Waaa! in the process
 

RedCommunist

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[edit] I don't know how to remove my posts, sorry for too many posts.
 
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RedCommunist

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PS: I found a minor glitch.
When Kirby uses his smash on the Waluigi, it freezes the game.
Not sure if any other smashes do the same, but the cooking pot doesn't know how to handle the Waa.
There's too much Waa, it's too fabulous.
 

robosteven

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You have a very good point. However, Waluigi is very much a unique character, and a special case. With many characters, we love them, not as how the game developers define them, but how we do. Gordon Freeman, Link, Samus, all very bland characters that the player imprints themselves on.

Waluigi, oddly enough, is a similar case, not exactly the same, but similar. Nintendo's neglected him, so the weird culture that is the internet has filled in the blanks. This mod's been afflicted by our imprint, his standard special is an example, that justifies it in my head. I don't even like Walurambo, the model needs some help, the neck doesn't fit the hot chest, and he has two layers of hair, but it still fits what the community's turned him into.

I think the biggest problem is that each costume has a different CSP pose. I got some o' Nano's renders for that issue though: http://smashboards.com/threads/nanos-csps.349681/
The different poses definitely help.

I think I will wait for the possibility of team alts though, just for my build anyway.

Strikers alt colors would be awesome too, especially because they are canon, but even in the event that no alt colors are made I will still be playing with this mod.

Looking forward to future updates.
 

Glunkus

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I have to say that I absolutely love this mod, but I went into debug mode and ended up finding a few problems with it.

-His up B hits once per frame making it the fastest multihit move in the game, dealing a total of 32% if all hits connect (which they usually don't but whatever). That seems a bit excessive. Maybe make it only hit once every 2 or 3 frames?
-When above 100%, performing a ledge jump will just put Waluigi on the stage. This allows him to get onto the stage with invincibility and then shield after being vulnerable for exactly 1 frame.
-When below 100%, his ledge jump can be cancelled out of with anything starting on frame 16, which lets him wavedash onto stage with only a 2 frame window to punish between the jump and the airdodge.

And also one lesser problem that's still worth noting.
-Sometimes when using the Walurambo outfit, the "Waa!" effect on his neutral B doesn't appear. The move still functions normally but in order to make the effect appear I have to change costumes. No idea what causes it though. :/
EDIT: Just to clarify, this doesn't always happen when I use that outfit. It works perfectly fine, but whenever the bug is somehow triggered, the "Waa!" effect won't appear again until I use a different outfit.

Overall it's still a great mod though. Good job to everyone who worked on it, and I'll be looking forward to any future updates.
 
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Nefnoj

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-His up B hits once per frame making it the fastest multihit move in the game, dealing a total of 32% if all hits connect (which they usually don't but whatever). That seems a bit excessive. Maybe make it only hit once every 2 or 3 frames?

-Sometimes when using the Walurambo outfit, the "Waa!" effect on his neutral B doesn't appear. The move still functions normally but in order to make the effect appear I have to change costumes. No idea what causes it though. :/
About the up-special, I think this also prevents the effectiveness of the "Shoryuken". I've never actually been able to pull it off.

I've also had the WAA issue in All-Star mode, crossed over from match to match. Didn't get as much information as you did though.
 

Glunkus

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I've encountered a very strange issue. I have absolutely no idea what's going on with it, but it's a pretty big problem.

I was playing some matches with wa, just having fun and whatnot. After a match I'm back on the character select screen and I leave for a few hours. When I come back, the game had frozen with that loud buzzing noise. I don't think much of it, so I restart the Wii and load up PM. However, when I get to the CSS, the icons for Mewtwo, Roy, and Waluigi are all replaced with a dark grey rectangle, and hovering over one of them crashes the game. I tried to see if I could switch to Waluigi using debug mode, and it crashed the game. Interestingly, the issue with the CSS and crashing also happened to me when I tried to install Waluigi by simply dumping the files onto a blank SD card. My guess is some important BrawlEX file somehow got corrupted, but I don't really know much about that kind of thing, so I could be completely wrong.

Has anyone else had this issue? I was able to fix it by reinstalling PM and Waluigi, so I don't need help or anything, but it would be useful to know why it happened. To be specific, I'm running PM 3.6 Homebrew off of USB Loader GX, and Waluigi is the only thing I've added to my PM build.
 

Hausi

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Glunkus, you are the type of WAAA explorer we need, good job with your research, I hope MK64DS notices this.
 

SgtPingwen

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Sorry for the wall of text. Hey, all! I've played Waluigi about 15ish hours and I am ready for my first round of feedback. Keep in mind that I am no PM god and Waluigi has not been optimized in the slightest. I am going to be tough on Waluigi's kit, as I hope to see him tournament viable one day. First, I will be going overall his moves individually and my impressions on them and as I lab him I will be updating this comment with Waluigi's frame data.

Waluigi has potential. MK64DS was very clear in his post about the design he wants for Waluigi and I see if delivered clearly in this model of the character, to varying degrees of success. Overall, Waluigi plays a ground game, trying to bait his opponent of getting a raw attack. Then, translates that hit into weak aerial strings and a decent edgeguard.

Waluigi's air movement is BAD, but that's how MK64DS wanted it, so it's fine. The problem comes from the fact that Waluigi has bad air game in general. Some of the comes from the fact that his air movement is so slow, but his aerials don't really combo together. Again, I think this is how Waluigi was designed: to have a weak air game. Waluigi gains insane high just from doing his double jump. Coupled with his Up-B, Waluigi has crazy vertical reach.

This raises my first big concern: Waluigi can't SHFFL. This is quite the statement and immediately puts Waluigi at a huge disadvantage in the neutral game. I find it hard to imagine a Waluigi winning neutral against characters like Fox. Waluigi doesn't seem to have any good OoS options or options to deal with pressure. Dude's got a big hurtbox. Waluigi's slow flow speed (it feels almost as slow as Jigglypuff's) combined with his very high first jump and his general awkward aerials means he is best playing neutral on the ground. Unfortunately, his ground game seems average at best and doesn't make up for his poor aerial game.

Another problem I have is his special moves feel lackluster. They all have some really niche use, but are all burdened by a combination of lag, jankness, lack of utility, or uselessness. Special moves are where you put the creative touch on a character and let them feel unique. Some of the moves do scream Waluigi (almost literally) and others seem misplaced. To me, the don't really serve a purpose in neutral or punish either.

Anyway, that's my overview of Waluigi at the moment. Time for a move by move break down

Dash Attack: As with most dash attacks, it is a true combo into itself (Kappa). Dash Attacks are rarely an defining feature of a kit and Waluigi is no except. his dash attack is appropriately powerful, laggy, and with only a few follow up. The only thing I can offer as advice is maybe make him cover more ground with a DACUS. His Up-Smash is a good move and would buff Waluigi's ground game.

Jab: Waluigi's Jab seems perfectly fine. It's decently quick with good range and low damage, as is usual with jabs. Jab 1 can jab reset, which is important for every character to have. The endlag on both Jab 1 and 2 seems to be too long to do anything other than a grab after them. I feel this should be changed as it would open a lot of options for Waluigi for jab resets, shield pressure and combos.

U-Tilt: Seems like it's a good combo and juggle move, as with a lot of other up-tilts. It controls are pretty small space above Waluigi, but overall seems like a fine move.

F-Tilt: First of, good call out to Mario Tennis. As for the move, it's one of my favorite of Waluigi. It's mostly a spacing/pressure move and if you sweetspot it, it has good knockback on it. Hard to tell just got much stronger the sweet spot is. Maybe give it a decent amount of damage if you high with the tennisball hitting part? Overall I really like this move.

D-Tilt: Seems like a decent crouch cancel option. Pretty well spaced and pops people up for followups.

U-Smash: Big juicy hitbox on this move. 5 frame start up is pretty damn good and low end lag, too. This is a great move. As mentioned earlier, I think Waluigi could benefit from DACUS.

F-Smash: A bit slower from U-Smash on both startup and ending lag, though appropriately strong. Good horizontal KO. This is largely a read or edgeguarding move and could maybe do with some more setups built into his kit. I will get into that later.

D-Smash: This move is weird. It can edgeguard and kill pretty well. A bit laggy, but not every moves has to be fast. Sometimes when I use this move, confetti comes out. Explain.

N-Air: This is a good move with the potential to link together and fill Waluigi's otherwise empty neutral game. If you could SHFFL it, it'd be great.

U-Air: U-Air needs work. It looks like it should have a decent sweetspot, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't have one. t also doesn't deal that much damage. Again, it is fine to have kinda bad moves in a kit, but at least fix the sweetspot on this one.

F-Air: This move is good at edgeguarding and can link together. I've done Fair, then land on a platform, then fair jump fair for some serious percent. At first, I was off-put by the angle it knocks people, but I dig it now.

D-Air: Hands down my favorite Waluigi move. I love this. It's very fast, locks people into hitstun for a grab follo-up, helps you get down from the air. I love doing drop drown D-Air to lock people in hitbox as they fall, and sometimes you can even Up-B. I wanna get a tattoo of Waluigi's D-air on my butt. It seems like it is 80% of his air power budget XD.

B-Air: This move is very awkward to use, so I think it fits in the poor air game for Waluigi pretty well. It's not too slow, but has a limiting hitbox. It's Waluigi's best kill aerial, so I like this one.

Neutral-B: WAAAAAAH! I love this move just for the memeage. So for it's usage, I think Neutral-B, and all of Waluigi's specials, in fact, need some work. WAH has a windbox, so that's nice. It can create some Waluigi-specific high moments, which Waluigi seems to lack. My problem with this moves comes from the fact that it is very laggy ~17 frames of start-up lag followed by ~17 frames of end lag is kinda rough for a move that only stays out about 6 frames and has such a small range. This move has no use in neutral, combos, and only a little use in edgeguarding. I think this is one of those moves that can define Waluigi as more than just a lanky, grounded Wario. I have a few ideas on how to improve. Any combination of the following:
First, reduce the lag significantly and add a little damage to the uncharged WAH. If it has faster startup and endlag, this move would have a place in neutral and would make playing and fighting Waluigi feel unique. Someone is stepping to your hood? Washdash back and Wah, they take damage and are pushed back. It can serve as a space maker and neutral game reset button for someone who lacks a way to deal with rushdown.

Second, increase the knockback and range of the move. I think this should happen for sure. As it stands, it's difficult to use WAH even for edgeguarding someone who is in freefall

Third, make it larger and angleable. This is a bit out there, but f you are charging it, I think it'd be cool if you can move its hitbox to, say, be a downward curve WAH which causes people to be pushed downward.

These changes might be much, but as it stands, WAH is lackluster, and I'd love to see if take on a bigger role in his kit.

Up-B: First, I am going to talk about it's recovery potential. Coupled with his second jump, Waluigi has fantastic vertical recovery. While I haven't played against any people who edgeguard well, it seems like the Up-Bb hitbox is at least decent at protecting against gimps. Waluigi has bad aerial drift, so his overall recovery with his Up-B and Side-B is either entirely horizontal or vertical. Almost no diagonal. I see this as a deliberate balance decision, as being able to side b into up-b would give waluigi S-tier recovery, much like Luigi. Maybe look into enabling Side-B into Up-B to play up the Wario vs Waluigi and Mario vs Luigi thing, but it's acceptable the way it is. If you hit the whole Up-B, it's like 30%, it's crazy. I wish it had a strong last hit that shot the person directly up for sick kills of the top.

Side-B: Dude, this move is wacky and I love it. It currently seems to be one of Waluigi's few options in neutral. With start-up armor and fast hitboxes, it is a satisfying move to land that carries opponents for the duration and tethers you to the ledge for edgeguard followups. For follow-up dive thing is where I am concerned. First off, I am not sure if it's a meteor smash or a spike, but it should be a spike. If you hit this on someone in the air while they are off of the stage you deserve a stock. I also didn't test if rooted people take less knockback. While it's really cool and roots people, it is and kind of janky and inconsistent. I think it could use some slight tweaking and be a fine move, though. The recovery this move gives is pretty cool, albeit very linear. For a while I didn't think Waluigi had a good way of refreshing ledge invincibility, but then I figured you just let go of ledge and side-b again. Not bad.

Lots of different Down-Bs
Down-B: quick invincibility. Cool. I'd like if he could get the invincibilty while standing still though.
Down-B to B: Can be charged a little. I don't really see the point of it, though.Seems like you can go Down- BB into followup and that's about it. Kinda meh about this one.
Down-B to A: Does a cool scoot boot boogie and does a stomp which can meteor. Seems to be an option in neutral to catch people off guard and get some percent. This move is another missed opportunity I feel. If Waluigi had the option to do different moves out of the bootscootboogie, it would help his ground neutral game and be a slid opener. Something like DownBA to grad of Upsmash, I don't know.
Aerial B to B: At first I hated this move. The invincibility seemed insignificant and that hitbox for it is weird. I also didn't like how you scooted in the air, making it difficult to land and know where the opponent was going to be launched. I jut recently learned that you are suppose to jump up after someone, scoot into the postion that will have the desired knockback. Still though, this move doesn't seem to have many setup but maybe I am just dumb. I think the move should have a slightly higher angle. To get the juicy spike, you kinda have to be high in the air. I also thing that the hitbox should come from his feet, but that's just a preference. If the knockback was higher and the angle was just slightly more out, it could be a solid kill option and one of those high Waluigi moments.
Aerial B to A: I don't like this move at all. It is so lackluster. Someone explain it to me.

Grab range is fine. DThrow looks like it might be tech chaseable on certain characters at certain percents? I feel it should be tweaked for a techchase throw. Waluigi has a pretty good dash dance to take advantage of it.
UpThrow is for the juggles, BThrow is a kill throw.
I do think FThrow could be a fun throw where you can choose to toss them up, forward or down, like a tennis ball.
Sorry for the long post and the degradation of quality as it went on, I got tired. I am going to run it back really fast though with my final thoughs.

Waluigi has decent air moves but struggles to string them together due to his poor air speed, this is fine and help define him as a character

Waluigi has a good ground game with several good stand alone abilities. He is pretty quick on the ground, has a decent wavedash, dash dance, and crouch cancel.

Waluigi is lacking in the neutral game. Currently, he wants to fish for stray hit and see if he can do followups, which are okay at best. A lot of my purposed changes are aimed at giving him a better, more unique neutral.

When Waluigi gets in, he can do some work. His aerial reach is poor, but he can make do with his current move set. He kinda goes, dash dance around get a hit or grab, ground punish, they then go in the air, then air punish. Return to the ground and try for a ground finisher.

Waluigi has a good edgeguard game between his big hitboxes and WAH and is something that can be double upped on.

Waluigi's recovery is about average. He has good horizontal or vertical range on his recovery, though his Up-B sweetspot needs to be looked at. He can't sweetspot the ledge and frequently will be level with the ledge, but the latch on won't be out for like 11 frames after the last hitbox of Up-B.

His specials moves need the most work. Most of them need some form of tweaking to really give Waluigi that "I'm a Smash character" feel.

There is the potential to make a really unique, fun character here.
 
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Nefnoj

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Sometimes when I use this move, confetti comes out. Explain.
Though I'm not exactly 100% sure, I think the pose has a hitbox in addition to the kicks. I think when the pose hits anything, it poops out confetti. That's been a consistency for me anyway.
 

Olhi

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When the version without PM Ex arrives, will it be possible to replace a character other than Pit?

Preferably Toon Link, Jigglypuff or Ike?
 

Stormghetti

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Slippi.gg
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Stormghetti
When the version without PM Ex arrives, will it be possible to replace a character other than Pit?

Preferably Toon Link, Jigglypuff or Ike?
People use those characters more than Pit.
 

Olhi

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Jun 17, 2016
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There's really no reason not to use Waa with PMBeX.
Assuming that's what you meant, there are 2 in fact:

1. Single Player Achievements made by Pit and Waluigi aren't saved, which apparently always happens with BrawlEx.

2. The Subspace Emissary doesn't work.
 
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Stormghetti

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Slippi.gg
STRM#798
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Stormghetti
I would prefer it over either toon link or jigglypuff, mainly because I have a friend who plays pit
I wish there was a way to not replace characters for now while still keeping all a character can have. I'd say Toon Link better than Jigglypuff, but that's just my opinion.
 

Yoshi 2410

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
72
Uh... I'm having a problem regarding the mod. When i select Launch Game (i'm on Dolphin and i'm using Gecko) it says "Codes Error: Too Many Codes
7813 Lines Found, 424 Lines Allowed" and it loads normal Brawl. Does anyone know why does this happen?

Edit:gameconfig.txt was missing. My B
 
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