VS. Villager?

[Mtn64]

Our NAir beats out a lot of things, UAir will hit pretty much every aerial if you're over us.
Block OoS NAir if misplaced, Pivot grab if there's enough range.
utilt beats a lot of things if the UTilt reaches.
I stopped thinking this was close when lloid and slingshot against no mechakoopa and only get in option being clown car. Which will be intercepted by lloid.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I stopped thinking this was close when lloid and slingshot against no mechakoopa and only get in option being clown car. Which will be intercepted by lloid.

Lloid has a generous startup window. It's easy to cart through and punish mid range lloid spam.

 

[Mtn64]

Lloid has a generous startup window. It's easy to cart through and punish mid range lloid spam.

But a good villager won't put himself in the position to let you clown car through it.
Against Bowser Jr, the only time we're not allowed is when you are not in any move or you're midrange - close, which is a general for most anyways.
Yes you can clown car through it, but a villager that knows what he's doing won't lloid in that position and would throw a high active frame DAir moving in an away direction or BAir to the ground.
IMO and then why do you win when you are close? Our UAir DAir outranges yours and NAir beats all your moves but your NAir, which you would have to space out in order to not be punished. Even in that case, your NAir will trade at best.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Every single example and hypothetical you've posted implies that the villager is good and knows the mu, but the bjr isn't and doesn't. That's just bad theorycrafting. I don't even care about discussing this mu tbh because it's tedious at this point and most of the posts are just people stroking themselves and not actually discussing anything. I'd give Villager +1 in the MU.

 

[Trieste SP]

Every single example and hypothetical you've posted implies that the villager is good and knows the mu, but the bjr isn't and doesn't. That's just bad theorycrafting. I don't even care about discussing this mu tbh because it's tedious at this point and most of the posts are just people stroking themselves and not actually discussing anything. I'd give Villager +1 in the MU.

Yeah, Bowser Jr. dosen't really have much against villager.

 

[Maxhax]

Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster. Anyways I have a bunch of matches online with Bowser Jr. as my main, and I've noticed a few things. These are backed up with some matches I'm putting up on youtube for you guys. Don't be afraid to like/sub and comment The files are big so I will be adding the links once they are done. Anyways, here we go:

http://youtu.be/Y4mE9G95cYc
https://youtu.be/sjck25F9JLg

First, Villager's pocket move. I for one don't mind if Villager snags my mecha koopa. The reason is that it's irrelevant vs our cannon ball. Charged CB goes through his tree, and lloyd, and koopa. To me him having the koopa lets me rain more cannonballs without fear. Him snagging a CB is worse. It hits harder, and again goes through our koopa. CBs can KO, koops not so much. They are a much worse threat to have pocketed. So go head and give him the koopa. His projectile is worse and CBs will blast past everything. Also staying in his face will make him have to choose whether to bring out the koopa to deny it from us, or it will be lost after awhile. He has to use his pocket move again or after 30 seconds or so, it's lost forever, which means more koopas.

Second, is Lloyd. Koopa and CB are great here. CBs blast through like previously stated and Koopas trade or better yet will absorb 1 hit then continue on forward and still work. Both in our favor. Hiding behind tree still loses to CBs. The biggest thing that sucks for us vs this move is that we have a big body, so low to ground Lloyds can't be ducked. Also he has a bit of start up till the move is active, so Fair will break the Lloyd and hit for damage, be in his face.

Lastly his, punishing his recovery. His balloons are great but if he recovers low, I have found a weakness. Bower Jr's Nair when hit close will pop both balloons with a single hit! This can definitely effect his recovery, so give it a try. Also, Fair once they are off screen is great, since it can hit Lloyd and we can use Klown Car to get back to the stage. Our Up B is always good, however I like it along their roll range instead of over the side. For that I prefer Nair.

I personally think that most match ups can be figured out based on what people typically do against your koopas. If they use B moves to handle them, play around it. If they use them against you, follow up with CB pressure, since it blows through Koopas and hits them.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

What "hydrant" does villager have?

 

[Maxhax]

Sorry, was refering to Lloyd, looks like a fire hydrant.

 

[Fatmanonice]

As a Iggy and Villager player, I have a pretty good idea how this match up works. Villager beats Bowser Jr defensively while Bowser Jr beats Villager offensively overall. While playing as Iggy, I don't even bother with the cannon or mechakoopa against Villager. I would say the key is to just be right in Villager's face because Villager doesn't handle pressure all too well thanks to one of the worst shield grabs in the game and not a whole lot of "OH GOD, GET OFF ME" moves (which is why I think if it weren't for Little Mac's garbage recovery he'd be one of Villager's hardest matchups). Off stage, it's best just to play conservatively because it's virtually impossible for Bowser Jr to gimp Villager but all too easy the other way around with a fsmash off the edge or a well timed nair.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

one of the worst shield grabs in the game and not a whole lot of "OH GOD, GET OFF ME" moves

Nair OoS works 99% of the time.

 

[guedes the brawler]

couldn't villager just do a short hopped side b to deny jr of being able to kart through it?

 

[Mr Moosebones]

It has a window where it doesn't have a hitbox. That's the only time you can drive through it, regardless of where it's used. You can't just straight up drive through a moving lloyd.

 

[guedes the brawler]

ah, yes, that time just at the beginning. i loved to punish CPU grabs with that when playing the demo; despite not being optimal.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Nair OoS works 99% of the time.

I agree with this.
Furthermore, Uair and Dair are excellent disjointed aerials to force Jr to respect Villager's space (they both outrange Jr's Uair and Dair...)

 

[Mr Moosebones]

The range of his up/dowin air isn't the issue as much as the fact that they stay out (and stay powerful) for 20+ frames. Super intimidating.

EDIT: Duck, just realized you're from Ontario. We have so many Ontario BJRs. Gotta settle who's the best one day (it's me).

 

[Blanc]

The range of his up/dowin air isn't the issue as much as the fact that they stay out (and stay powerful) for 20+ frames. Super intimidating.

EDIT: Duck, just realized you're from Ontario. We have so many Ontario BJRs. Gotta settle who's the best one day (it's me).

exp

 

[The_ToolBag]

I have to agree that villager is one of the most difficult match-ups. The rushdown is probably the best way to act against the character, but not linearly. Villager, like Rosa and Zelda is a character that attacks in 45 degree angles. Not only that, but there is a bit of cool down for the aerials. Villager has to fend you off from the air, as none of his/her ground based attacks have enough range. Luckily, the disjoint of all bowser jrs aerials come in handy at this point. l think the biggest thing to note is to contain stage control, get in the villagers face, and dont over commit, because that is where villager can really punish you

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I have to agree that villager is one of the most difficult match-ups. The rushdown is probably the best way to act against the character, but not linearly. Villager, like Rosa and Zelda is a character that attacks in 45 degree angles. Not only that, but there is a bit of cool down for the aerials. Villager has to fend you off from the air, as none of his/her ground based attacks have enough range. Luckily, the disjoint of all bowser jrs aerials come in handy at this point. l think the biggest thing to note is to contain stage control, get in the villagers face, and dont over commit, because that is where villager can really punish you

By 45 degree angle you meant to say 90 degree angle right? Because villagers biggest weakness is that he cant cover diagonals. At all. Those are the only spaces where hes 100% vulnerable. He's only safe on direct laterals and directly above and below him.

exp

I actually dont play a ton of bjr anymore. Feel like ive pushed him to the limit and i need to take a break to just hone basic stuff with other characters in the meantime. Been working on Olimar to get my fix for weird tech and Yoshi for my high tier whoring.

 

[The Revolutionary Cafe]

So I ran into Zee (a pretty notable Villager in NY) today on Smash Ladder and I have somethings to point out in the MU
-Villagers can destroy our approach with fairs and bairs(as I'm sure many know)
-We can dash over the tripping tree with side b(amazing I know)
-We can inconsistently go through pushy lloid rocket (I think it depends on the angle since the super armor is on the bottom of the clown car)
-Using mecha koopa is discouraged because he can pocket it and do that weird thing where he makes it unusable for us until he comes back but we can still use it if he commits to a nair or something
Overall a really ****ty match up for the Koopalings as the match is encouraged to be played rush down but it's hard to rush Villager down with his amazing spacing and defensive tools.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

If he takes the koopaling you can spam cannonballs endlessly, its not actually a bad situation to be in. Outside of the bjr ditto, villager is essentially the only other MU where cannonball not only has use, but is extremely good. Fully charged cannonball outprioritizes all of his projectiles and will go through the tree without stopping, essentially making camping a non issue.

 

[platomaker]

Twigs and turnips beat out most of our options, this matchup isn't worth the trouble so I'd suggest picking another character.
If you had to use him though, my advice would be to stay on him, but don't pursue off-ledge. He will pocket your MK- its going to happen but don't freak out just stay on him and it'll reset in 30 seconds as long as you don't give him the chance to refresh it.

Smashville has a pretty good tapered ledge so you'll autosnap from a decent range, important for avoiding bowling balls.