Okay, I've been doing this for a hot minute--now time to tear you out the frame.
Glad to hear you have confidence in your argument.
I see what you did there with posting three links from
private school advocates! (btw, the last link doesn't even work)
I mean, Council for American Private Education? C'mon man!
I'm glad you see what I did there. Anything that I post that supports my side, will prob have a bias to it. It's just common sense, don't you think posts that I would make would come from sites that support my claim? Just like you posted links that contested my side, I didn't try to attack the validity of your sources because it was obviously in favor of your belief. Secondly, the 2nd link I posted did extensive research. If you actually looked at the article, they gave many sources at the bottom. Obviously they aren't just spewing jargin that they came up with for propaganda, they did research. Thirdly, I apologize if the third link didn't work, this was an old OP I had from a while back i the DH ( I used to be a DH member, but was taken out due to inactivity)
Already from the start, there is a potential error here. You implicitly state that special needs students are not "every day students." In what ways, absent of any mental and/or physical ailments, are they any less of a everyday student from you or me?
They aren't everyday students. I'm sorry if I'm not being politically correct here, but they require more attention. They go to school, they take tests, and do homework, but they still require EXTRA help that the normal student does not. There is nothing wrong with this, I'm glad that Georgia is taking the time to put these students into an environment that they can grow. But when we are talking to average costs here,we're talking as an average, and look at the majority, the costs will be a lot lower.
Your first part is duly noted. However, how many bumps in a process should or would be permissible by the system of vouchers?
Enough bumps where the negatives outweigh the positives. In your first link you post in your first post, your article gave the impression that even with the problems that Vouchers have at the time, in the end it's worth it. “It’s very expensive for us, but it’s worth every penny,” Cuviello said. “Anna is more confident, more self-controlled.”
First off, it's not the only problem faced. It's as if you didn't see the other two points on my first post.
What are you even getting at? I took your post point by point, giving at least a paragraph refute, with the exception of the last point, as it had no real bearing.
FYI, the last point was more tied to the first one than an absolute opinion. Living in Atlanta, I know that with our massive amounts of budget cuts, that school choice isn't an option that is available for those even if they have it. For example, neighboring DeKalb County School District county has now put a ban on their employees putting a ban on their children going to other school systems (which they often do, as DeKalb county schools statistics are often much lower than that of neighboring counties). Needless to say that if the voucher program was implemented here, there could be some problems with the system in this alone.
Obviously there would have to be more rules to the system, like I said, as well as the first post article that you posted said, it's a new system. You can't expect it to be perfect when it first comes out. But already you are seeing progress.
And private schools have less problems than public ones because...?
You will need to show some sources on that one before I believe it...
SAT SCORES SAY HAIIIIIIII. Did you even read the first post? Private schools average on SAT scores are ridiculously higher than public schools. They accomplish this on almost half the budget that public schools have. You have teachers who volunteer to teach at LOWER wages. Yet the students are getting taught better than their public school counter parts? Why? Because of such things as Teacher Unions protecting bad teachers. I remember in High School, I had a great guy as a teacher, the only problem was, he was horrible teacher. Students complained and continue to complain about the man's teaching abillity every single year, and the poor grades in the class reflect that sentiment. Yet because he's been teaching for so many years, and because he's in the teacher Union, he's generally safe from being fired unless something EXTREME happened. Teachers like him are everywhere. They teach because of a paycheck. You can whine and complain all you want about how teachers aren't payed enough, but the benefits that teachers receive are very nice. Yet education still sags in public schools. Obviously Private Schools have less problems.
Are you fvcking serious?
No, those aren't the only problems that I find with vouchers. Here are a few more:
I'm sorry if you don't know my sense of humor, but usually when people post a
smiley, it tends to have a sarcastic tone to it, again sorry if that was not known to you.
[*]Vouchers have been shown to show no marked student improvement:
Shown here &
here.
Your first source for this didn't work, and your 2nd sources was a 42 page PDF. If you're going to post a ridiculously huge article supporting your side, at least point out where in the article I can at least find the proof, or paraphrase it in your response. I highly doubt you even read much of that source if not any at all.
[*]Even if vouchers are implemented, rules would have to come into play that makes them sound, as seen
here
I won't disagree with you here, rules need to be implemented anytime you implement a program as big as Vouchers, but again, the system is a new system, and you need to give it time to grow.
[*]There's also the issue where public dollars are used to send children to religious private schools as seen
here.
Read the article, and the main point that I came across was that Religious schools would have an obvious "bias" in their books on history and science. Again, there will always be a bias with whoever writes the book. There is as much a conservative bias in some books as there are liberal bias. Another issue is this wouldn't this break seperation of Church and State? Again I find so many people hiding behind this. Just like the 2nd amendment is old and outdated regarding weapons ( But I am a full supporter of gun rights) so is that argument. When religious schools are consistently scoring better than public schools, than yes I'm fine with tax dollars going there. Even if I wasn't a Christian. Yes they might be learning about that religion that is totally evil and bringing society down as a whole, but at least they are actually excelling in secular testing. Obviously these schools are doing something right
(
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=277712)
[*]A lack of accountablity can also come into play for private schools receiving public money, as commented on
here.
What about the accountability of public schools? Honestly, how can you even make some of these arguments? Public schools have NO accountability. The U.S has one of the worst schooling systems in the world, and one of your main arguments that you use to support public schools, is the very thing that public schools are known for. Seriously.
[*]If this isn't enough, we could turn to another county:
Chile's voucher system has been middling, @ best.
Comparing the U.S, to Chile is like comparing Apples to Oranges. There's no argument here.
In short, while I am relatively neutral on the subject of vouchers myself, I don't want to see a potential debate die because of two "Me too" posts from two PGers who have been torn out the frame repeatedly by CK & others. Let's have some fun and debate this!
I agree with you here, these two brought nothing to the table, I was just waiting for someone to actually debate with me.
