Vote for Melee at Evo 2015!

[Bones0]

The eternal underdog, Melee must once again fight for its spot at the world's biggest video game tournament. Show your support HERE. For further discussion, go to THIS THREAD in Tournament Discussion.

 

[EPsilon933]

Smash 4 should be at EVO 2015, not Melee

But that's if only 1 Smash game can be there. Ideally, both should be there

 

[Bones0]

Smash 4 should be at EVO 2015, not Melee

But that's if only 1 Smash game can be there. Ideally, both should be there

If that's what you think, then you should post about it in the Smash 4 forums. I wouldn't go into the Smash 4 forums and tell them their game shouldn't be at Evo. This thread is for supporting Melee at Evo.

 

[Accelerator]

Looks like Melee has a good lead.

 

[Kati]

Really hope both make it... not that I'll ever purchase a sm4sh system or be interested in playing it.

 

[MasterTK]

Voted for Melee. Smash 4 is much better than Brawl, but a joke when compared to Melee.

 

[SmashtasticFraud]

voted, hope it gets even bigger than last year

 

[Coonce]

As much as I want Smash 4 at Evo, if I had to pick one, it would be Melee. My friends and I had an Evo 2014 watch party, which we were yelling, cheering, and having one hell of a time watching Axe's 4 stock, Hbox beating Armada twice, and Mango taking the gold again. I honestly can't see Smash 4 getting us as hype.

 

[MookieRah]

I think that it is a little bit funny that, despite the fact that the majority of people posting their opinions in the opinion page being pro Sm4sh, melee is taking the most votes.

Personally, I'm kinda tired of how everyone piles the hate onto the "hardcore melee" players, claiming all the toxicity comes from us, when it is equally spread across the entire scene. It's easy to blame the minority for everything. I'm thinking a lot of melee players are simply not bothering with the opinion thread due to this overwhelming feeling that any resistance to Sm4sh being in Evo results in being labeled as a close-minded elitist.

PS
Melee is the minority here, because despite it's numbers, pretty much everyone else likes to dog pile them. We will only see support from within our group, we will not see much support from Nintendo or other branches of the smash community. Within that logic, we have less power when compared to people who are pro-Sm4sh.

A lot of people have posted valid criticisms towards Sm4sh recently, that aren't toxic, yet are met with disdain and hatred by everyone else. I personally make no distinction between this type of behavior and the toxic behaviors that some people have within the melee community, as neither side has some kind of morale high ground.

 

[Dr. Giygas]

I voted for Melee, even though I'm still excited to see where Smash 4 goes. I just don't think it's time yet for Smash 4 to get the spotlight. And for the record I'm totally biased because I just happen to love the players and the scene itself. I don't think the Wii U/3DS scene will be developed enough by then. More minor tournaments in the meantime will give us some information about character usage, what rules to implement etc. That said- I wouldn't be super surprised if as a sponsor Nintendo tried to push it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

A lot of people have posted valid criticisms towards Sm4sh recently, that aren't toxic, yet are met with disdain and hatred by everyone else. I personally make no distinction between this type of behavior and the toxic behaviors that some people have within the melee community, as neither side has some kind of morale high ground.

this is exactly how i feel. whenever i tried to bring up something i had a problem with about sm4sh in the smashbros reddit i was downvoted and given no counter argument except "you're a melee elitist" and "the game hasn't come out yet". the latter argument is so infuriating to read because even before the demo came out there were numerous sources of sm4sh gameplay footage.

 

[flacofaloc]

Smash 4 wont have a Meta Game by then. If there can only be one, it has to be Melee. I would love to see both because something like EVO will help the sm4sh scence.

 

[MookieRah]

Off-topic Quick Rant:
Just going to say that, as a former mod, I'm disappointed that the opinions thread was taken down, considering that things in there were actually kinda tame. I think most of the bad stuff was coming from two guys, one pro-melee, and one pro-Sm4sh. Ever here of infractions or warnings?

Back on Topic:
I'm going to say that the state of Sm4sh's meta doesn't really matter in this debate, as this has never been considered for any other game before it, so I don't see why it's even being argued really. This has never really been open to debate before, as generally I suspect new games are supported by their respective companies. I suspect that Nintendo will actually support Sm4sh at Evo, as a means to sell more Wii U's, and if that is the case our support for melee would be more for the hope that they have both titles and not that melee somehow gets in over Sm4sh.

That said, I think the argument regarding treating Melee and Sm4sh as two different games within the same genre is a good argument. Generally the next game in the series is based off it's predecessor and is designed with the intent for it to be competitive. In smash's case, the creator has said in several interviews for several games that he does not want his titles to be competitive, and he's taken action to prevent that as much as possible. Even if Sm4sh isn't as defensive as Brawl, it's still nowhere near Melee based purely on the core mechanics of both games. This is in such a stark contrast with other fighting game series'.

The closest I can think of (within my admittedly low amount of knowledge) is the transition from 3rd Strike to SFIV. SFIV was developed to be slower paced than it's previous titles, and a lot of the competitive 3rd Strike players weren't into this. That said, it wasn't developed to remove competitive play in any way, and while it was slower paced, it wasn't the slowest in the series, and there was still a ton of cross-over skill involved. Much of the core mechanics were the same, just slightly altered. Very few things were gutted or replaced entirely. While SFIV did cause a bit of a schism, it's nowhere near the level that Brawl had on the Smash community.

 

[JFB (JurgaBurgaFlintines)]

I just want people to know that I don't hate on Melee nor do I hate on Smash 4.

I personally feel like Melee is the safest option for EVO 2015 if we want the disaster of Brawl at EVO. I mean think about it like this. How developed will Smash 4 be at EVO 2015 for it to entertain not only the spectators at the venue, but the viewers at home. Also think about this at a business standpoint. If Melee brought around entrants to EVO, how many will we bring this year since our community is ever growing and how much money would that bring in. We should wait a year for Smash 4 to be a MAIN EVENT . This year, Smash 4 can be a side event and we can wait a year for Smash 4 to not only garner players, but more techniques and a better metagame for it to be more pleasing to the players and viewers.

 

[JFM2796]

Reposting this here:

I think having both would be the ideal situation, but if I had to pick one it would be Melee.

I think many people here don't realize that Smash is still a controversial game at Evo. This isn't a grassroots event, this is the biggest fighting game tournament of the year. It's hard enough to get one Smash game let alone two, and despite having changed a lot in the past few years there's still a notable amount of resentment among the traditional FGC of having what was conceived as a party game on their big stage. We've made great progress in showing that the series has enough merit to be played at this level, but there is still a degree of skepticism among the fanbase of traditional fighters. Just look at what some of them were saying during Armada and HBox's sets.

That's why I'd rather go with the game that has been proven to work and we can proudly showcase to a large audience and have be fun to watch (look at the stream numbers -- they speak for themselves) rather than taking a huge risk on new game that could go either way at this point. It's unlikely, but if it ends up going the way Brawl at Evo did in '08/'09 we may not see any Smash at Evo 2016. Why risk something the Smash community worked so hard for when the only payoff is the possibility that the crowd may enjoy Smash 4 more than Melee?

Keep in mind there's more that can harm a game's viability at an event like this than just "Is it a slow poke fest": Ruleset discrepancies are a big part of that. It's likely that a ruleset will be figured out by July but what if we get another Meta Knight situation where the community is split? There is a very real possibility that could happen, and even if Nintendo can be bothered to patch it said patch could introduce a new issue.

So it could go two ways:

• Melee remains at Evo. The game is generally well received, likely gets more viewers/attention and maybe more entrants than the previous year. Smash 4 is likely streamed as a side event, but has also remained relevant among established Smash games thanks to official Nintendo tournaments. Come this time in one year we should have Smash 4 figured out by now. If ends up being a viable competitive game but lacks what is needed to make it fun for spectators then lucky us, we didn't take the opportunity to show that to the skeptical FGC on their home turf. In the event that Smash 4 does end up being a better showcase of what high level Smash can look like while being better for spectators lucky us, we can put it in Melee's spot for Evo 2016.
• Smash 4 gets placed at Evo. There are many possible outcomes due to the uncertainty surrounding the game. The best case scenario is it has an extremely hype showing and raises likely a similar amount of viewers as Melee would have. The worst case scenario is that it is a complete disaster for whatever reason (the game is a pokefest/slow, the community is split on rulesets, one character is Meta Knight levels of dominant, etc.) and Smash is removed from the lineup at Evo 2016. Hell for all we know Nintendo could get super involved and make them run the tournaments in the Invitational/Comic Con style with FFA items. I'm sure the FGC would love that.

Is the risk worth the reward? Or can we wait and see what's going on with this game before we gamble our treasured spot at the biggest fighting game tournament?

As for what I expect to happen I think Smash 4 will end up being at Evo 2016 over Melee mostly because Nintendo's going to push it and because the "shiny new game" effect (that will likely be faded by this time next year) is going to make people want it on the center stage.

 

[Bones0]

Like I said in the original thread, I think the main focus of the argument should be on the communities involved. The Melee community is very separate from the Brawl and Smash 4 community. Nearly everyone playing Brawl is switching to Smash 4, but since the original transition back to Melee, there hasn't been many people changing games. In 2013, the Melee community earned a spot at Evo. Not the Brawl community; not the Smash community; the Melee community. Did other scenes help with Melee's success in the donation drive? Absolutely, but that was help that the Melee scene earned through respect. Just because the Brawl community helped Melee get into Evo doesn't mean Melee players should have to give up their spot when Smash 4 rolls around.

The question Evo asked should not have been "Melee or Smash 4?" It should have been "Are Melee players transitioning to Smash 4?" The answer that is a resounding "no", so switching from Melee to Smash 4 makes no sense. If only 15% of the Melee players were sticking around, it'd start to make a lot of sense, but it seems pretty likely that Melee would get even more entrants than last year despite Smash 4 being released...

 

[Kadano]

@ Bones0 I created a poll-thread for that question. I hope many will participate: http://smashboards.com/threads/poll-for-melee-veterans-will-you-play-smash-4-competitively.371615/

 

[Hong]

Melee, of course.

Granted, suppose Nintendo could push a lot coin towards EVO, sponsor it again, and talk them into presenting Smash 4. If that game does show up, I hope by then that play has developed to be more intense. Could determine if I spectate or participate.

 

[Elegant]

IMO,

Although Smash 4 is the new upcoming game, I don't think that it should automatically have a spot at EVO 2015. SSBM has been growing the last few years and to throw that out the window would be ridiculous and would only push the game back farther.

However, SSBM is an old game and Smash 4 needs a chance to be able to prove itself. Wouldn't it be more interesting watching a newer game with no meta attached? The game needs a tournament in the spotlight to prove its worth or we'll be stuck on SSBM forever. Competitive Smash will always be around but the fact that we're still on SSBM, an older game, means that new upcoming players are at a disadvantage from old veterans. This shouldn't be the case.

I think that both are equal of being involved at EVO 2015 but Smash 4 will be more diverse and exciting for new upcoming players and spectators, whereas Melee would only be good for the hardcore fans, but not as much the casual viewer.

If the Melee community isn't willing to let Smash 4 have a chance, it shows how selfish melee players actually are.

 

[SmashWolf]

Having a newer game join Evo for the pure sake of it being newer would be extremely biased. We want to see fast-paced aggressive matches and a developped metagame. Smash 4 will barely have one by 2015. Maybe in 2016 if the game turns out better than it looks to be right now, it could take Melee's spot just for the sake of experimentation, though of course we'd prefer BOTH. Sadly it's not like that would happen, though.

 

[1MachGO]

Competitive Smash will always be around but the fact that we're still on SSBM, an older game, means that new upcoming players are at a disadvantage from old veterans. This shouldn't be the case.

sounds like you miss tripping.

Real talk though, Smash veterans (particularly Brawl ones) have an advantage in this game. Reading, keeping calm under pressure, decision making, etc. come with experience.

I think that both are equal of being involved at EVO 2015 but Smash 4 will be more diverse and exciting for new upcoming players and spectators, whereas Melee would only be good for the hardcore fans, but not as much the casual viewer.

Assuming smash 4 will be a spectator's sport. Zero camped out Hbox in front of over a hundred thousand people at the invitational before the game even had a meta. Who knows what will happen with the likes of characters such as Duck Hunt in the mix.

If the Melee community isn't willing to let Smash 4 have a chance, it shows how selfish melee players actually are.

This is both an example of a slippery slope AND its contradictory. So if Smash 4 doesn't let Melee have a chance, are they not the ones being selfish?

Feats of the Melee community:
-Continued to exist in spite of losing support from Nintendo, MLG, and other major sponsors
-Smash documentary (gave awareness to competitive smash)
-Raised $90,000 for breast cancer to get into evo (Brawl community did provide some money)
-Got back into MLG thanks to Evo, smash doc (Brawl was kicked out for collusion shenanigans)
-Many top players got sponsored
-Saw the most reps at the invitational (Nintendo acknowledged the Melee competitive community the most)

Feats of Smash 4:
-existing

Melee has WORKED to get itself back in the lime light. It rightfully deserves a spot. If Smash 4 also gets a spot, I'm down, but to me, it currently makes way more sense to support Melee.

 

[EPsilon933]

Smash 4 should be hosted at EVO 2015. There is a torrential flood of casual players who are hyped for that game. Featuring it at EVO would be a huge advertisement for competitive fighting gaming. It would simply advertise the fighting game genre because no one casual plays it if it isn't Smash Brothers. It needs a casual audience. Smash 4 at EVO would advertise these things to them. The more popular a game is, the more popular its tournament scene is. Casual players tend to make up the vast majority of a game's popularity. Competitive gamers don't start out being competitive gamers on day 1. They started playing games for fun ("for fun" is the phrase casual gamers would use)

Smash 4 at EVO would work best in the year 2015 when it still has its new game hype. Relatively no one cares about games that are more than a year old. Nintendo wouldn't either. They'ed be focusing more on other new games to advertise. The FGC needs Smash 4 at EVO 2015 for exposure this time. Exposure does a lot of great things for competitive games. If EVO never exposed Melee to the competitive (fighting) gaming world, our national tournaments would be stuck at 180-350 entrants. EVO Brought our national tournament numbers to 680-970 players, even at our own tournament, Apex. EVO needs Smash 4's exposure this time. It will benefit the greatest number of people by a significant amount. Melee at EVO would only benefit Melee players

Also, Nintendo would not allow Melee to be streamed at EVO. It would stop sales of Smash 4 (semi-exaggeration). They are a business and EVO is a great advertisement for their biggest product. The Most Melee can be is a streamless side tournament

It’ll help Melee grow too. Some of the flood of casual players will want to see more competitive Smash 4 and would likely end up finding VGBootCamp’s twitch channel. They stream Melee and Project M tournaments every week and soon they’ll also be streaming Smash 4 once it launches. New players to competitive Smash 4 will get to see the older games too. The exposure for those games are just going to be delayed. Both Melee and Smash 4 sides benefit from this

 

[Elegant]

sounds like you miss tripping.

Real talk though, Smash veterans (particularly Brawl ones) have an advantage in this game. Reading, keeping calm under pressure, decision making, etc. come with experience.

Feats of Smash 4:
-existing

Melee has WORKED to get itself back in the lime light. It rightfully deserves a spot. If Smash 4 also gets a spot, I'm down, but to me, it currently makes way more sense to support Melee.

It seems that you've missed the point of my entire text. Did you not read my first paragraph? I said that Smash 4 needs a chance to be played but should NOT be given a spot due to existing.

"Sounds like you miss tripping"... Lol. Sounds like you're just here to start an argument. The advantages that you stated have nothing to do with the game itself, rather experience playing games. It'll be the same throughout shooters, fighters, etc. The fact of the matter is is that a player who has been playing competitively from 2013 onwards will most likely be inferior to a veteran because of game mechanics that could possibly not be known to the newer player. You've proved my point by saying that players will have an advantage through experience but totally disregarded the fact that Melee had special techs, as have all games.

Brawl wasn't a TERRIBLE game, it was a DIFFERENT game. "Sounds like you miss tripping"... again, you're just trying to start an argument. did you ever follow the Smash Dojo site that was running when Brawl was being released? Tripping was an aspect to have a fun experience as a party game, and obviously at a competitive level its a terrible factor.

Every point you've made has had no valid argument, it shows that you're part of the community that just wants a "Melee 2". is everyone a competitive player? No. What is the purpose of a game? To have fun. Think of League of Legends. Players that play Normal queue can still watch LCS and understand mechanics of the game and have fun watching something because they can understand the different things going on. A newer player into the smash scene looks at Melee (especially with newer technologies) and it looks like a game full of glitches that can be an immediate turnoff.

Last of all, "If Smash 4 doesn't let Melee have a chance..." LOL. You're so full of yourself its funny. Melee has had its chance, learn to move on and try different things. Change is good. Melee was a full offensive style where Brawl was mainly defensive. Project M adapted to this and tried to create a balance where offensive still favored defensive, but only slightly.

Read my personal opinions again then try and attack me again if you want. Both have the pros and cons of being played at EVO 2015.

 

[The Soap]

It seems that you've missed the point of my entire text. Did you not read my first paragraph? I said that Smash 4 needs a chance to be played but should NOT be given a spot due to existing.

"Sounds like you miss tripping"... Lol. Sounds like you're just here to start an argument. The advantages that you stated have nothing to do with the game itself, rather experience playing games. It'll be the same throughout shooters, fighters, etc. The fact of the matter is is that a player who has been playing competitively from 2013 onwards will most likely be inferior to a veteran because of game mechanics that could possibly not be known to the newer player. You've proved my point by saying that players will have an advantage through experience but totally disregarded the fact that Melee had special techs, as have all games.

Brawl wasn't a TERRIBLE game, it was a DIFFERENT game. "Sounds like you miss tripping"... again, you're just trying to start an argument. did you ever follow the Smash Dojo site that was running when Brawl was being released? Tripping was an aspect to have a fun experience as a party game, and obviously at a competitive level its a terrible factor.

Every point you've made has had no valid argument, it shows that you're part of the community that just wants a "Melee 2". is everyone a competitive player? No. What is the purpose of a game? To have fun. Think of League of Legends. Players that play Normal queue can still watch LCS and understand mechanics of the game and have fun watching something because they can understand the different things going on. A newer player into the smash scene looks at Melee (especially with newer technologies) and it looks like a game full of glitches that can be an immediate turnoff.

Last of all, "If Smash 4 doesn't let Melee have a chance..." LOL. You're so full of yourself its funny. Melee has had its chance, learn to move on and try different things. Change is good. Melee was a full offensive style where Brawl was mainly defensive. Project M adapted to this and tried to create a balance where offensive still favored defensive, but only slightly.

Read my personal opinions again then try and attack me again if you want. Both have the pros and cons of being played at EVO 2015.

Then if Smash 4 is made for a less competitive audience than Melee, why should Smash 4 be featured at a competitive fighting game tournament over Melee?

And Melee players don't keep playing Melee just for the sake of it, they play it because it's the game they enjoy the most. They won't move on to a new game just because it's new.

 

[Elegant]

Then if Smash 4 is made for a less competitive audience than Melee, why should Smash 4 be featured at a competitive fighting game tournament over Melee?

And Melee players don't keep playing Melee just for the sake of it, they play it because it's the game they enjoy the most. They won't move on to a new game just because it's new.

What audience was Melee made for? Lol. Smash 4 isn't made for a less competitive audience than Melee, they were both made for the same audience. It just so happens that Melee there were many glitches that caused the playstyle that you see now. Smash 4 isn't tailored to be less competitive, it has a different style of gameplay then you are used to.

Again an example of someone still stuck in old games not willing to try new things.

Keep the hate coming please.

 

[Coonce]

What audience was Melee made for? Lol. Smash 4 isn't made for a less competitive audience than Melee, they were both made for the same audience. It just so happens that Melee there were many glitches that caused the playstyle that you see now. Smash 4 isn't tailored to be less competitive, it has a different style of gameplay then you are used to.

Again an example of someone still stuck in old games not willing to try new things.

Keep the hate coming please.

Except even Sakurai himself said Melee was "focused more towards hardcore players."

 

[The Soap]

What audience was Melee made for? Lol. Smash 4 isn't made for a less competitive audience than Melee, they were both made for the same audience. It just so happens that Melee there were many glitches that caused the playstyle that you see now. Smash 4 isn't tailored to be less competitive, it has a different style of gameplay then you are used to.

Again an example of someone still stuck in old games not willing to try new things.

Keep the hate coming please.

You say that you're getting "hate" while coming in to the "Vote for Melee at Evo" thread and calling Melee players "stuck in old games not willing to try new things".

The thing that made Melee competitive was the engine, not glitches. The speed of the game along with techniques like l-cancelling (an intended mechanic) and wavedashing allowed players to fluidly use their character to fully express themselves and their skill level. And the point of competitive gaming is to determine skill level. Smash 4's engine doesn't allow for nearly as much competitive depth as Melee's.

 

[1MachGO]

It seems that you've missed the point of my entire text. Did you not read my first paragraph? I said that Smash 4 needs a chance to be played but should NOT be given a spot due to existing.

"Sounds like you miss tripping"... Lol. Sounds like you're just here to start an argument. The advantages that you stated have nothing to do with the game itself, rather experience playing games. It'll be the same throughout shooters, fighters, etc. The fact of the matter is is that a player who has been playing competitively from 2013 onwards will most likely be inferior to a veteran because of game mechanics that could possibly not be known to the newer player. You've proved my point by saying that players will have an advantage through experience but totally disregarded the fact that Melee had special techs, as have all games.

Brawl wasn't a TERRIBLE game, it was a DIFFERENT game. "Sounds like you miss tripping"... again, you're just trying to start an argument. did you ever follow the Smash Dojo site that was running when Brawl was being released? Tripping was an aspect to have a fun experience as a party game, and obviously at a competitive level its a terrible factor.

Every point you've made has had no valid argument, it shows that you're part of the community that just wants a "Melee 2". is everyone a competitive player? No. What is the purpose of a game? To have fun. Think of League of Legends. Players that play Normal queue can still watch LCS and understand mechanics of the game and have fun watching something because they can understand the different things going on. A newer player into the smash scene looks at Melee (especially with newer technologies) and it looks like a game full of glitches that can be an immediate turnoff.

Last of all, "If Smash 4 doesn't let Melee have a chance..." LOL. You're so full of yourself its funny. Melee has had its chance, learn to move on and try different things. Change is good. Melee was a full offensive style where Brawl was mainly defensive. Project M adapted to this and tried to create a balance where offensive still favored defensive, but only slightly.

Read my personal opinions again then try and attack me again if you want. Both have the pros and cons of being played at EVO 2015.

It is very obvious that you are incredibly new to the smash scene and you didn't seem to understand anything I said so I'll keep it simple.

1. I am aware of what you said in the beginning; it is more than obvious which parts I am referring to

2. I never said I want Melee 2. P:M is already a great game. Furthermore, Anti-elitism is another form of elitism

3. I never said Brawl is a terrible game

4. I never proved your point lol. But you failed to refute my point: veteran competitors have an edge over new competitors. You can move the goalposts all you want, you are still wrong.

5. You think Melee is "full of glitches." LMAO. I can probably count all the glitches you'll encounter in competitive Melee on one hand.

6. Why is Melee inferior because its old? Whats wrong with liking an older game? Should chess players "move on"?

 

[Elegant]

It is very obvious that you are incredibly new to the smash scene and you didn't seem to understand anything I said so I'll keep it simple.

1. I am aware of what you said in the beginning; it is more than obvious which parts I am referring to

2. I never said I want Melee 2. P:M is already a great game. Furthermore, Anti-elitism is another form of elitism

3. I never said Brawl is a terrible game

4. I never proved your point lol. But you failed to refute my point: veteran competitors have an edge over new competitors. You can move the goalposts all you want, you are still wrong.

5. You think Melee is "full of glitches." LMAO. I can probably count all the glitches you'll encounter in competitive Melee on one hand.

6. Why is Melee inferior because its old? Whats wrong with liking an older game? Should chess players "move on"?

You still don't understand so I'll try one last time.

You've done the same thing as last time, trying to insult me without not even knowing anything about me. I've played Smash for the last 9 years for you to say that I'm new to the Smash scene is ridiculous. I don't know how long you've played for but honestly I don't really care. If you're going off of my join date... lol.

1. Reread what I said and make sure you understand it, cause it still seems like you don't. I'll quote here.

"Although Smash 4 is the new upcoming game, I don't think that it should automatically have a spot at EVO 2015. SSBM has been growing the last few years and to throw that out the window would be ridiculous and would only push the game back farther."

Then you go along and say that Smash 4 has achieved no feats yet and the only feat is that it exists. Later on, I say that we should at least give the game a chance, but you're so hellbent on wanting Melee being there that you aren't thinking straight.

2. All your posts you praise Melee which is an amazing game and show that you want little to no change. Nothing else to say here

3. I never said you said Brawl was a terrible game.

4. I am completely correct, and you must be tripping if you think you are. I will reiterate my point. If Smash continues to support Melee, slowly but surely the competition will fail. Players that want to get into the scene will be turned off that they haven't played the game the same amount of time as the rest. Melee is a GREAT game, but to continue the growth of Smash we need to BE WILLING TO TRY NEW THINGS. You've proved my point by saying that players will have an advantage through experience but totally disregarded the fact that Melee had special techs, as have all games.

5. Involving @ The Soap in here now, I remember years ago that many of the special techs were indeed glitches and not intended to be in the game. Saying that they aren't glitches is one thing, but Soap saying that they were indeed added into the game I didn't know about. Can you possibly link me a source? If I'm misinformed about this then I'm sorry, but I've understood it differently. Thanks.

6. I never said that Melee was an inferior game. AGAIN, this is you not being able to read. I'll quote again.

"The fact of the matter is is that a player who has been playing competitively from 2013 onwards will most likely be inferior to a veteran because of game mechanics that could possibly not be known to the newer player."

I don't think I really need to say anything else to you. Arguing is meaningless, especially when the person doesn't have a brain.

 

[Accelerator]

You still don't understand so I'll try one last time.

You've done the same thing as last time, trying to insult me without not even knowing anything about me. I've played Smash for the last 9 years for you to say that I'm new to the Smash scene is ridiculous. I don't know how long you've played for but honestly I don't really care. If you're going off of my join date... lol.

1. Reread what I said and make sure you understand it, cause it still seems like you don't. I'll quote here.

"Although Smash 4 is the new upcoming game, I don't think that it should automatically have a spot at EVO 2015. SSBM has been growing the last few years and to throw that out the window would be ridiculous and would only push the game back farther."

Then you go along and say that Smash 4 has achieved no feats yet and the only feat is that it exists. Later on, I say that we should at least give the game a chance, but you're so hellbent on wanting Melee being there that you aren't thinking straight.

2. All your posts you praise Melee which is an amazing game and show that you want little to no change. Nothing else to say here

3. I never said you said Brawl was a terrible game.

4. I am completely correct, and you must be tripping if you think you are. I will reiterate my point. If Smash continues to support Melee, slowly but surely the competition will fail. Players that want to get into the scene will be turned off that they haven't played the game the same amount of time as the rest. Melee is a GREAT game, but to continue the growth of Smash we need to BE WILLING TO TRY NEW THINGS. You've proved my point by saying that players will have an advantage through experience but totally disregarded the fact that Melee had special techs, as have all games.

5. Involving @ The Soap in here now, I remember years ago that many of the special techs were indeed glitches and not intended to be in the game. Saying that they aren't glitches is one thing, but Soap saying that they were indeed added into the game I didn't know about. Can you possibly link me a source? If I'm misinformed about this then I'm sorry, but I've understood it differently. Thanks.

6. I never said that Melee was an inferior game. AGAIN, this is you not being able to read. I'll quote again.

"The fact of the matter is is that a player who has been playing competitively from 2013 onwards will most likely be inferior to a veteran because of game mechanics that could possibly not be known to the newer player."

I don't think I really need to say anything else to you. Arguing is meaningless, especially when the person doesn't have a brain.

1. It will give the game a chance. It will be given a chance at majors and such to see if it can offer quality competitive play and entrance numbers. It should not have it's debut at the world's largest FGC tournament.

2 An assumption on your part. If anything your critique of his praise shows how hostile you are to people who have differing opinions.

Addressing the rest of your post, you seem to think a new game will make the field even and equal for everyone. The fact of the matter is, the person who puts in the most concentrated effort, gets the best results. You talk like it's impossible to catch up to a meta that has been developing for years. There are plenty of examples of players in the Melee community who started extremely late, yet are able to compete against people who have years of experience on them.

Most people don't even go to tournaments expecting to win because they have a grounded idea of how good they are. Do you think those 1000 entrants at EVO all thought they had a chance for 1st place? No. They went because they all enjoy the game.

 

[Elegant]

1. It will give the game a chance. It will be given a chance at majors and such to see if it can offer quality competitive play and entrance numbers. It should not have it's debut at the world's largest FGC tournament.

2 An assumption on your part. If anything your critique of his praise shows how hostile you are to people who have differing opinions.

Addressing the rest of your post, you seem to think a new game will make the field even and equal for everyone. The fact of the matter is, the person who puts in the most concentrated effort, gets the best results. You talk like it's impossible to catch up to a meta that has been developing for years. There are plenty of examples of players in the Melee community who started extremely late, yet are able to compete against people who have years of experience on them.

Most people don't even go to tournaments expecting to win because they have a grounded idea of how good they are. Do you think those 1000 entrants at EVO all thought they had a chance for 1st place? No. They went because they all enjoy the game.

1. I understand that it will be given a chance at majors to see if it can be given quality play. My thing was that if the game proves to be a possible hit EVO 2015 would be a great way to kick off the game, that's all.

2. Yeah, a decent assumption after all of the assuming/jabbing he's done at me. If you read the whole conversation more thoroughly, or were more in my shoes I think the take your putting on the matter would be a little different. I'm not being hostile, its me defending myslef at the jabs he's taken at me. If you read my first post I was just saying my honest opinion of the matter and propsing that more thought should be put in, then he goes and makes fun of everything I say.

I believe that a new game will help level the playing field a bit more than it would be to go back to a game people have played for years. That part is true. The person who puts in the most concentrated effort WILL get the best results, but if we have an upcoming smasher that goes 110%, he still may get thrashed due to him not knowing the game as well as veterans, even if the new smasher is adamant about being the best. Of course there are example of players that have started extremely late, but we're talking a few years ago, not this present year. Many people at EVO go to have fun, but many aswell go to try and show they are the best.

 

[Accelerator]

1. I understand that it will be given a chance at majors to see if it can be given quality play. My thing was that if the game proves to be a possible hit EVO 2015 would be a great way to kick off the game, that's all.

I believe that a new game will help level the playing field a bit more than it would be to go back to a game people have played for years. That part is true. The person who puts in the most concentrated effort WILL get the best results, but if we have an upcoming smasher that goes 110%, he still may get thrashed due to him not knowing the game as well as veterans, even if the new smasher is adamant about being the best. show they are the best.

And that's exactly how it should be. If he doesn't know the game as well, he should get thrashed. If the smasher is adamant he will devote more time to the game and catch up.

Of course there are example of players that have started extremely late, but we're talking a few years ago, not this present year.

Following this logic, what will you do when Sm4sh is out for 4-5 years and newbies want to start up? Should they say screw it and wait for the next game because there is 0 hope? By the way, the skill gap between players is always largest at the beginning of a new game. Players who play the most will be hoarding techs and strats for an edge over the competition.

Many people at EVO go to have fun, but many aswell go to try and show they are the best.

The Melee community is well aware of the skill gap between players, and how good the top players are, yet they still go to tournaments. They spend 100s of dollars to go to nationals they know they have no hope of winning, because they want to play the game they enjoy in a competitive setting and enjoy the experience. They don't necessarily want to prove they're the best, because they know they haven't put in the time to do so. Do you think even 90% of those 1000 entrants thought they were good enough to beat Armada or M2k?

 

[Elegant]

And that's exactly how it should be. If he doesn't know the game as well, he should get thrashed. If the smasher is adamant he will devote more time to the game and catch up.



Following this logic, what will you do when Sm4sh is out for 4-5 years and newbies want to start up? Should they say screw it and wait for the next game because there is 0 hope? By the way, the skill gap between players is always largest at the beginning of a new game. Players who play the most will be hoarding techs and strats for an edge over the competition.



The Melee community is well aware of the skill gap between players, and how good the top players are, yet they still go to tournaments. They spend 100s of dollars to go to nationals they know they have no hope of winning, because they want to play the game they enjoy in a competitive setting and enjoy the experience. They don't necessarily want to prove they're the best, because they know they haven't put in the time to do so. Do you think even 90% of those 1000 entrants thought they were good enough to beat Armada or M2k?

You still don't understand.

Obviously if someone doesn't know the game well they deserve to get thrashed. But when a game has been out for 13 YEARS its time to move on so new players have a chance. Pros that continue to play through a new game and stay ontop show that they can go through change and DESERVE to be on top. My point isn't about newbies starting up, its about people that are behind will stay behind almost FOREVER if games don't change.

I'm done arguing on this thread because everyone that tries to has nothing of value to add or debate about. All it is is someone being butthurt about a new game coming out and not wanting things to change.

Get used to it.

 

[1MachGO]

I'm done arguing on this thread because everyone that tries to has nothing of value to add or debate about. All it is is someone being butthurt about a new game coming out and not wanting things to change.

LOL the irony. One could very easily turn this logic around and say that you're just butthurt about people being happy with an older game.

There is nothing wrong with playing the game you enjoy; it has nothing to do with "resisting change" or being "unwilling" to try new things. Opportunity for the sake of opportunity shouldn't supersede personal preference. Anyone interested in competitive smash PERIOD should give all the games a shot, TBH.

 

[Elegant]

LOL the irony. One could very easily turn this logic around and say that you're just butthurt about people being happy with an older game.

There is nothing wrong with playing the game you enjoy; it has nothing to do with "resisting change" or being "unwilling" to try new things. Opportunity for the sake of opportunity shouldn't supersede personal preference. Anyone interested in competitive smash PERIOD should give all the games a shot, TBH.

Thanks for completely agreeing with me in your last sentence. It actually makes me feel good that you finally understand.

 

[1MachGO]

Thanks for completely agreeing with me in your last sentence. It actually makes me feel good that you finally understand.

If I completely agreed with you, I would have specifically said smash 4... not all games. I would have said that "Melee players should move on" when I didn't. You have implied time and time again that Smash 4 is the best choice for new players due to its supposed "leveled" playing field. When, in fact, a new player in 2014 could very well enjoy Melee more.

Again, opportunity for the sake of opportunity shouldn't supersede personal preference. Being the best player in the world or starting a game at the same time pros do shouldn't be important to everyone. People don't get into competitive sports worrying that they won't be as good as the best player in that game and the same goes for Smash; they play it because they like it.

You see, its statements like this that are proof we aren't on the same page:

Obviously if someone doesn't know the game well they deserve to get thrashed. But when a game has been out for 13 YEARS its time to move on so new players have a chance. Pros that continue to play through a new game and stay ontop show that they can go through change and DESERVE to be on top. My point isn't about newbies starting up, its about people that are behind will stay behind almost FOREVER if games don't change.

Pros/Melee players don't owe Smash 4 anything because its newer. They are going to play the game they like. Again, go find a chess forum and tell new players that its time to move on from their 1000+ year old game. You are really just attacking Melee players for sticking with the game they like.

 

[MookieRah]

@ Elegant
If several people in this thread are constantly responding to your statements and they still don't understand, I would suggest that you find a better way to express your thoughts. At this point I have no idea what else you could be saying either, so you should take some time to reword what you are saying, because the problem is with your explanation, not that everyone else lacks reading comprehension.

 

[Firejew]

That join date.
Those mains.
That Lucina avatar.

 

[Elegant]

@ MookieRah
1MachGO's problem is reading comprehension. He's said that I've said things that I haven't, and I've quoted myself and him each time, so I have nothing else to say to him.

@ F Firejew
I used to browse these forums but never got an account. When i decided to come back to play around a month ago, I thought that it would probably be best for me to get an account so I can post when Smash 4 comes out. I have 1k+ posts on my GB account and I hang around on other forums anyways.

@ 1 1MachGO
You've just tried to start arguments each time with me. I don't really have to say anything more.
"They are going to play the game they like." Doesn't this mean people should try things to see if they like it..? Lol.

 

[1MachGO]

@ 1 1MachGO
You've just tried to start arguments each time with me. I don't really have to say anything more.
"They are going to play the game they like." Doesn't this mean people should try things to see if they like it..? Lol.

You're honestly just taking it upon yourself to be offended; the closest I have every come to insult you is purely through implication or speculation. The question your are asking is very non sequitur and, furthermore, doesn't apply to my quote when it is in its correct context.