Viridi vs Medusa as a Palutena Echo

[QrowinSP]

Well, Medusa is only in the first part of the game, but her arc is the longest. In comparison, Hades, as fun as he is, doesn't really felt like a threat until the very last chapters. You fight against Viridi, Palutena, the Aurum (teaming up with the Underworld army at that moment) and other things, but you really oppose Hades at the very end only.

It may be a short scene, but Medusa's surprise return to fight Hades is, to me, a sign of her importance to the serie and to the heroes.

Yeah, I may be underplaying her importance slightly, but if we're talking in terms of speaking parts she's more on the scale of Magnus than she is on the scale of Viridi or Hades.

How about Hades?... nah, actually I prefer him as a boss. As long we get some of his trollness in the game.

As for Medusa vs. Viridi. It comes in a battle of relevance and public appeal. Maybe I would prefer Viridi by a little, because maybe Chrom wants a more "physical" revenge.

I agree on Hades completely. He'd work great as a story mode boss. And hell yes for Viridi vs Chrom, that'd be fun to see. Maybe she's part of his classic mode, heh.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yeah, I may be underplaying her importance slightly, but if we're talking in terms of speaking parts she's more on the scale of Magnus than she is on the scale of Viridi or Hades.

I can agree on that. The second part (after Medusa's defeat) being much longer help, too.

 

[QrowinSP]

I can agree on that. The second part (after Medusa's defeat) being much longer help, too.

Even in terms of her arc, she didn't talk much. She had a bit in the first chapter, talked in the flying portion of Dark Pit's chapter, and then she conversed with Pit and Palutena in the final chapter. Compare that to Hades and Viridi, who are part of the core recurring cast in almost every chapter after their initial arrival.

I wasn't kidding when I compared her relevance to Magnus.

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Palutena was barely present in the original too. She was just a damsel in distress who only appeared in the game's ending. Doesn't mean she deserved to be shoved into a corner like Medusa, and she wasn't.

Medusa was in the promotion trailers to hype up Uprising, the storyline was literally about Medusa's return, sounds like a important antagonist plot to me and yes she is just as big of a deal as Ganon, Bowser, Ridley and K Rool for she is like them the main villain of the Kid Icarus series.

You're right that Sakurai heavily pushed Medusa in Uprising's marketing. But really the whole thing around Medusa's return was just a red herring. She was essentially little more than a plot device with the mystery of her return paving the way for Hades's dramatic, unexpected entrance. After her early exit from the game's storyline, she's never mentioned or heard from again until the very end, after a very long absence.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Even in terms of her arc, she didn't talk much. She had a bit in the first chapter, talked in the flying portion of Dark Pit's chapter, and then she conversed with Pit and Palutena in the final chapter. Compare that to Hades and Viridi, who are part of the core recurring cast in almost every chapter after their initial arrival.

I wasn't kidding when I compared her relevance to Magnus.

Yeah, I understand. That's the only thing I dislike in Uprising, it's that Medusa doesn't taunt you more. Like the first game, your initial goal is to defeat her generals so you focus on that first.

But hey... We did get Magnus (as an assist) in Smash so who knows?

You're right that Sakurai heavily pushed Medusa in Uprising's marketing. But really the whole thing around Medusa's return was just a red herring. She was essentially little more than a plot device with the mystery of her return paving the way for Hades's dramatic, unexpected entrance. After her early exit from the game's storyline, she's never mentioned or heard from again until the very end, after a very long absence.

A great plot twist if you ask me. And a great plot device too.

It doesn't mean much, but looking at idols and AR cards, Medusa and Hades both have 4 idols, plus one that they share. What I like is that Medusa do have a Rare card, like Palutena, a privilege Hades do not have.
Again, this isn't much, it's just that she is still more to the serie than a plot device.

 

[QrowinSP]

Yeah, I understand. That's the only thing I dislike in Uprising, it's that Medusa doesn't taunt you more. Like the first game, your initial goal is to defeat her generals so you focus on that first.

But hey... We did get Magnus (as an assist) in Smash so who knows?



A great plot twist if you ask me. And a great plot device too.

It doesn't mean much, but looking at idols and AR cards, Medusa and Hades both have 4 idols, plus one that they share. What I like is that Medusa do have a Rare card, like Palutena, a privilege Hades do not have.
Again, this isn't much, it's just that she is still more to the serie than a plot device.

Yeah, for sure. She's definitely above characters like Pyrrhon, Pandora, or the Chaos Kin. But if it's a choice between her and Viridi, then I really think viridi wins by quite the margin.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Yeah, for sure. She's definitely above characters like Pyrrhon, Pandora, or the Chaos Kin. But if it's a choice between her and Viridi, then I really think viridi wins by quite the margin.

If it was for a unique character, then I would agree entirely despite my bias (and I do love Viridi, if she was playable I'd play her for sure). But an echo, I keep my position of Medusa fitting more in term of size and theme with Palutena. If we ever get an echo with a size really different from the original (... Maybe it will be Viridi, who knows), I'll probably change my point of view though, while still believing in Medusa because as said... Bias

 

[QrowinSP]

If it was for a unique character, then I would agree entirely despite my bias (and I do love Viridi, if she was playable I'd play her for sure). But an echo, I keep my position of Medusa fitting more in term of size and theme with Palutena. If we ever get an echo with a size really different from the original (... Maybe it will be Viridi, who knows), I'll probably change my point of view though, while still believing in Medusa because as said... Bias

Someone suggested that they could age up Viridi, since it's been established in Uprising that the goddesses choose what age they appear. Combined with the fact that, unlike Medusa, Viridi actually has canonically given Pit and Pittoo the powers Palutena uses, I think it could work pretty well. Could be a funny little meta moment. "Why'd you decide to be an adult for smash, viridi?" "Oh, I decided I'd go for a more mature look. Definitely has nothing to do with making it easier to make me an echo fighter." "A what?" "Nevermind."

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

I wasn't kidding when I compared her relevance to Magnus.

I think comparing her relevance to Magnus is a little unfair. I mean, she was the mcguffin/red herring for the first, and longest, story arc, as well as being the final boss of the original (and the backstory of the original was all about Palutena and Medusa). Sadly though, Magnus has more dialogue in Uprising than Medusa does!

Though while we debate Medusa's importance (or lack thereof), I would wager there is still a ton of untapped potential in the character. It feels like Hades had pretty much reached the pinnacle of his potential already.

 

[LokiTheFlameshied]

Medusa. She's a legacy character(the main villain of the series) and her model is very similar to Palutena making it easy to implement. She is even basically the evil(or Dark) version of Palutena. Viridi is very different from Palutena. As we've seen from all the other echo's they are all very similar in terms of model to their original; Which Viridi isn't, she's way too small. Medusa just makes sense from a development and lore standpoint.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I think comparing her relevance to Magnus is a little unfair. I mean, she was the mcguffin/red herring for the first, and longest, story arc, as well as being the final boss of the original (and the backstory of the original was all about Palutena and Medusa). Sadly though, Magnus has more dialogue in Uprising than Medusa does!

Though while we debate Medusa's importance (or lack thereof), I would wager there is still a ton of untapped potential in the character. It feels like Hades had pretty much reached the pinnacle of his potential already.

Hades seems like he would just be a Ganondorf clone with lasers tbh.. He really couldnt do any of the over the top op stuffthat was shown in the final boss fight as a character, so probably a stage boss.

The big three main characters of Kid Icarus are Pit, Palutena and Medusa so this makes Medusa more relevant than any character, and btw every other KI character shown has just been featured as dialogue or background characters.. Medusa currently is a trophy, but not really featired yet so she will most likely be a playable fighter, especially after she was hinted in Simon Belmont's reveal.

 

[QrowinSP]

Medusa. She's a legacy character(the main villain of the series) and her model is very similar to Palutena making it easy to implement. She is even basically the evil(or Dark) version of Palutena. Viridi is very different from Palutena. As we've seen from all the other echo's they are all very similar in terms of model to their original; Which Viridi isn't, she's way too small. Medusa just makes sense from a development and lore standpoint.

There are solutions to the size difference problem that I discuss in the op. And once again, I find it hard to call her the main villain of the series. She was the main villain of the first game. There are 2 others in the series, one of which Sakurai made and is the one all of the current iterations of the KI characters are based on. In this game, both Viridi and Hades outshine her, as does Dark Pit.

Hades seems like he would just be a Ganondorf clone with lasers tbh.. He really couldnt do any of the over the top op stuffthat was shown in the final boss fight as a character, so probably a stage boss.

The big three main characters of Kid Icarus are Pit, Palutena and Medusa so this makes Medusa more relevant than any character, and btw every other KI character shown has just been featured as dialogue or background characters.. Medusa currently is a trophy, but not really featired yet so she will most likely be a playable fighter, especially after she was hinted in Simon Belmont's reveal.

Hades as a ganondorf Echo with some changed moves (Meta Knight's tornado would be a fun reference to his boss fight) might actually work, ngl) could be fun, but he should really be a boss.

Calling Medusa part of the "Big 3" of kid icarus is something I just don't get. That's arguably true for exactly 1 game in a 3 game series. And I hardly consider the belmont thing a reference to her. Medusa statues are just being put into the stage because they were in castlevania.

 

[LokiTheFlameshied]

There are solutions to the size difference problem that I discuss in the op. And once again, I find it hard to call her the main villain of the series. She was the main villain of the first game. There are 2 others in the series, one of which Sakurai made and is the one all of the current iterations of the KI characters are based on. In this game, both Viridi and Hades outshine her, as does Dark Pit.



Hades as a ganondorf Echo with some changed moves (Meta Knight's tornado would be a fun reference to his boss fight) might actually work, ngl) could be fun, but he should really be a boss.

Calling Medusa part of the "Big 3" of kid icarus is something I just don't get. That's arguably true for exactly 1 game in a 3 game series. And I hardly consider the belmont thing a reference to her. Medusa statues are just being put into the stage because they were in castlevania.

I saw that , it's a huge stretch. They are not going to scale her up like that, because her being, well a kid is what we remember her as. I know, Smash doesn't care about scaling(just look at Ridley), sure. The difference is that characters like Ridley were scale down to fit in Smash. There is literally no reason to make Viridi the same height as Palutena at all.

As for being the main villain of the series, Medusa pretty much is Lore-wise . And yes, she is considered to be the main villain of the series. The games have had three villains. One, none of us remember, one that was in one game(the newest one) and one that has been in two games. There's a reason she came back in uprising, because she is the main KI villain, to the point where Hades becoming the villain of the game legitimately shocked people.

She may not be as popular as as Viridi (a shame, since Viridi was annoying as hell, but I digress), but she does still have popularity. But you know what? That's not even the point. If Palutena is (big is) to have an echo fighter, it won't be Viridi. It would be Medusa, who again from a development and lore perspective, makes the most sense. That's the point. The post is called "Viridi vs Medusa as Palutena's Echo". Which isn't to say Viridi won't be playable (I doubt she will, but I doubt we are getting any KI characters for awhile anyway), it means if Palutena get an echo, it'll be Medusa. Viridi, would be a unique character.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, being featured as a main villain (even if only in one part of a game) in several games is still a feat in itself.

Redesigning Viridi, although it is possible for a goddess to change her appearance, is risky though. If people prefer her as a childish goddess, if she suddenly become a woman with Palutena's graceful animations, people may dislike it, it's different from Roy for example. I already know people who dislike the change from to so...

Medusa is simply the Big 3 of the original game, no more and no less. She has some "nintendo history" in her, and despite the treatment of KI in Smash 4 (one of her big detriments, not gonna lie), the origin and history of a franchise is still important.

And yeah, the Medusa Head in Dracula's Castle doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything bad either, as we have and .

 

[LokiTheFlameshied]

Double reply by accident.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The best solution possible to this dilemma is to wait until 25 years after Uprising’s release. By then it will be retro, and so Viridi can be aged up and redesigned like Pit was in Brawl.
This is all completely serious, of course.

 

[lightdasher]

Well, two things.

Echo Fighters so far share frame data, weight, speed and such with their counterpart. Surely, Lucina is sliiiiightly smaller than Marth, but this doesn't have an impact. I believe that Daisy will be smaller as well, but again, the size difference is negligible. Viridi would be very different from Palutena in that regard. It's not the same as Melee clones who had different frame data, weight, to compensate Young Link's range for exemple.

Secondly, thematically, Medusa as an echo fit better. They already are two side of the same coin in the games. The goddess of Light VS the goddess of Darkness. Both leader of Angel Land, prior to the games. Now Palutena's Army vs Underworld Army. The connection between the two is stronger.
Surely, Chrom is an echo of Roy, but so far, other echoes are tied to the other characters (obviously, we have Ganondorf in Melee, but it's such an exception).

If the "rival" theme is true for the game, then Medusa is better suited for that echo role.

And as said, Viridi does have an impact on Reset Bomb Forest. It's hard to replace her to drop the Reset Bomb, there is no Alfonzo for her, and she is unique compared to Palkia (well, it's a legendary pokémon, I can admit that it makes it more unique than a Pikachu).

Phosphora.

Alternatively she doesn't HAVE to appear in the background, bomb could still go off on it's own.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Phosphora.

Alternatively she doesn't HAVE to appear in the background, bomb could still go off on it's own.

I don't see Phosphora launching such a thing. But on the other hand, yeah, Viridi doesn't have to project herself when launching the reset bomb. I still think that something would be lacking, as it is the warning that the stage is changing (like Castle Siege rumbling), although we can also see the reset bomb falling.

I don't remember how the stage revert back to normal (except for the white flash), and I don't have SSB3DS with me right now...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I kind of want both of these characters, but I expect to get neither

But with all the villains joining I'd rather have Medusa

 

[lightdasher]

I don't see Phosphora launching such a thing. But on the other hand, yeah, Viridi doesn't have to project herself when launching the reset bomb. I still think that something would be lacking, as it is the warning that the stage is changing (like Castle Siege rumbling), although we can also see the reset bomb falling.

I don't remember how the stage revert back to normal (except for the white flash), and I don't have SSB3DS with me right now...

It just does.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The best solution possible to this dilemma is to wait until 25 years after Uprising’s release. By then it will be retro, and so Viridi can be aged up and redesigned like Pit was in Brawl.
This is all completely serious, of course.

I can’t wait that long for new Kid Icarus content outside of an Uprising remake and Smash Bros (I need new games and an anime...also that older Viridi)

 

[QrowinSP]

I can’t wait that long for new Kid Icarus content outside of an Uprising remake and Smash Bros (I need new games and an anime...also that older Viridi)

An animated series supervised by Sakurai would be amazing.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

An animated series supervised by Sakurai would be amazing.

Would be even better if it aired on Disney (Channel or XD either works) or Nickelodeon instead of the bad luck charm channel Cartoon Network...also a Kid Icarus show might actually acknowledge the middle child of the trilogy

 

[Fatmanonice]

Got to go with Medusa because they are both roughly the same height, same body type, both are staff users, and both even wear robes with almost identical trinkets on them. Even their backstories basically assign them as light and dark versions of each other.

 

[meleebrawler]

It just does.

Viridi also utters "Ugh! Human vermin!"

 

[QrowinSP]

Would be even better if it aired on Disney (Channel or XD either works) or Nickelodeon instead of the bad luck charm channel Cartoon Network...also a Kid Icarus show might actually acknowledge the middle child of the trilogy

I think an anime is much more likely. Studio Shaft did the animated shorts, which could be fun so long as they get Sakurai to help with the script. If not them, Bones, Madhouse, or Trigger would be a dream.

Please forgive my weeb.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I think an anime is much more likely. Studio Shaft did the animated shorts, which could be fun so long as they get Sakurai to help with the script. If not them, Bones, Madhouse, or Trigger would be a dream.

Please forgive my weeb.

No doubt it’d be an anime (the only real way to make a Kid Icarus show), but Disney Channel or XD seems like a perfect place to air the show (Cartoon Network mostly cares for TTG and Nick might keep Spongebob/Loud House/some TMNT as their focus)...and Studio Shaft is the only company that would be allowed to animate for them (they’ve been given the honors in doing so twice)...or Nintendo themselves

 

[Kingshadow3]

The thing is that Palutena uses a Shield in her attacks. If you are hoping for either Medusa or Viridi as an echo, you might be outta luck.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The thing is that Palutena uses a Shield in her attacks. If you are hoping for either Medusa or Viridi as an echo, you might be outta luck.

Viridi and Medusa can have a different move to copy ( does it with his recovery)

 

[GoodShepperd]

The thing is that Palutena uses a Shield in her attacks. If you are hoping for either Medusa or Viridi as an echo, you might be outta luck.

Eh, she just punches people with it, the animation wouldn't even need to change for it to work for Medusa, and Medusa is known for her uppercuts anyways

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

I'm on team Medusa. I like her design much more than Viridi's she would be way easier to implement as a Palutena echo than Viridi. Medusa seems much more "villain" to me than Viridi and I'm all about them villains. Also Viridi never seemed that funny to me (but then again none of the humor in Uprising really landed for me). If I had to compare the cast of Uprising to a movie franchise. It would be Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 where all the characters had forced humor and nothing was really taken seriously. Medusa feels like Ego (barely cracked any jokes was straight evil) compared to the rest of the cast which all felt like they were trying to do stand-up comedy acts.

Idk where I was going with that comparison BUT you get the point I much prefer Medusa and while I doubt neither of them are getting in. I gotta say if they added Viridi over Medusa I would have a little sour taste in my mouth because it would be like "man you wasted development time on her when you could've worked on something else" because Viridi seems like she would require more work and wouldn't really work as an echo of Palutena where as if Medusa was added I would be more okay with it because in my mind it would feel like "Man that intern must've got paid a lot for that 1 week of work" Cause let's be honest here Kid Icarus isn't that big or important enough of a franchise to warrant 3 characters when their are still other franchises that could be represented more OR franchises that have yet to be represented in Smash that haven't yet. But that's just my two cents..

 

[lordvaati]

Medusa being an Echo also makes sense with how Medusa has a history with mirrors in myths.
Her reflecting the moves of the one she hates most seems fitting.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Cause let's be honest here Kid Icarus isn't that big or important enough of a franchise to warrant 3 characters when their are still other franchises that could be represented more OR franchises that have yet to be represented in Smash that haven't yet. But that's just my two cents..

I think we all know Kid Icarus isn’t a big enough franchise (though it was important for the 3DS and was the first major game revealed at the least...NES also but nobody seems to care for OM&M on the Game Boy so definitely not that), but neither is Earthbound/Mother or especially F-Zero (now that it’s likely to never have a life outside Smash). One more character (whether it’s Viridi, Medusa, or even Hades) wouldn’t hurt fortunately...though people will call Sakurai bias

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm all for Medusa.
She might have had a smaller role in Uprising, but she's important to the series as a whole. (Barring Myths and Monsters).
Hades is a universal threat, true. But Medusa having a grudge on Pit and Palutena makes her more relatable. She's a villain on a personal level, not just for the heck of being a villain.

I'm not super fond of the idea of Medusa being an echo, but if it's that or bust.... then please by all means make her an echo.

I don't really see the significance behind Viridi.
... So Sakurai made her... So what? He also made Dark Pit. And the figures from Meteos. I don't think Sakurai is biased in that way.
I don't dislike Viridi, but I don't see her having any sort of impact to the game. Like Medusa, she too was a pawn in Hades' master plan, even if she didn't know about it.
Also, she's not a big time villain either. So she doesn't fit that whole "Heroes vs Villains" motiff going on.


If there's one thing I give Viridi over Medusa is that maybe Sakurai wouldn't like using a character that's heavily based or practically the same as the one from Greek Mythology. But that's just pure guessing.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm all for Medusa.
She might have had a smaller role in Uprising, but she's important to the series as a whole. (Barring Myths and Monsters).
Hades is a universal threat, true. But Medusa having a grudge on Pit and Palutena makes her more relatable. She's a villain on a personal level, not just for the heck of being a villain.

I'm not super fond of the idea of Medusa being an echo, but if it's that or bust.... then please by all means make her an echo.

I don't really see the significance behind Viridi.
... So Sakurai made her... So what? He also made Dark Pit. And the figures from Meteos. I don't think Sakurai is biased in that way.
I don't dislike Viridi, but I don't see her having any sort of impact to the game. Like Medusa, she too was a pawn in Hades' master plan, even if she didn't know about it.
Also, she's not a big time villain either. So she doesn't fit that whole "Heroes vs Villains" motiff going on.

If there's one thing I give Viridi over Medusa is that maybe Sakurai wouldn't like using a character that's heavily based or practically the same as the one from Greek Mythology. But that's just pure guessing.

Tbf...Viridi helps Pit go through the worst time in his life (Palutena being evil) and teams up with him to fix all the bad that happened during his 3 year “break”, is used to introduce the Lightning Chariot, helps out during the final Hades fight, shows a crush of sorts for Pit, gets involved in dealing with the Aurum invasion, and is used to lead to the Chaos Kin arc of Uprising (also she’s the best goddess, so there’s that aswell)...and she’s no villain (not like that will be the actual theme of the game, though it seems to be leading to that, 5 Heroes to 3 Villians)

Edit: Also was used to show how bad both humans and gods are

 

[shinhed-echi]

Tbf...Viridi helps Pit go through the worst time in his life (Palutena being evil) and teams up with him to fix all the bad that happened during his 3 year “break”, is used to introduce the Lightning Chariot, helps out during the final Hades fight, shows a crush of sorts for Pit, gets involved in dealing with the Aurum invasion, and is used to lead to the Chaos Kin arc of Uprising (also she’s the best goddess, so there’s that aswell)...and she’s no villain (not like that will be the actual theme of the game, though it seems to be leading to that, 5 Heroes to 3 Villians)

Edit: Also was used to show how bad both humans and gods are

Oh, sorry, meant to specify her not making an impact as a villain.
As an anti-hero, she's pretty cool, though, and a lot goes on.
And I like that she takes Dark Pit under her wing. (At least in Smash 4 canon, I think).
Nice user name btw.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Oh, sorry, meant to specify her not making an impact as a villain.
As an anti-hero, she's pretty cool, though, and a lot goes on.
And I like that she takes Dark Pit under her wing. (At least in Smash 4 canon, I think).
Nice user name btw.

Smash canon is canon to Kid Icarus, and I like to assume Viridi never tried being a villain, but more of a Deadpool type of character (good, but has the worst reasons to kill somebody)

Thanks for the name compliment (though I can’t change it, it’s still works out well)

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't really see the significance behind Viridi.
... So Sakurai made her... So what? He also made Dark Pit.

Well... How should I put it?

Dark Pit did get in Smash.

 

[Glaciacott]

I'd be happy with any Kid Icarus representation, but I do think Viridi is more likely just in terms of popularity. Even before Uprising the main conversation around Kid Icarus villains was split between Medusa and the Eggplant Wizard, so that alone shows how even with just the classic game in mind the impact of Medusa wasn't exactly that significant.

Also, on the topic of height. I wonder if it's possible to just size down palutena's model and make the character float? Boom, Viridi. The gimmick being she has less reach and disjoint for moves that would normally use a shield, but her staff does more damage and has more reach than palutena's.
As for not having a shield, if the shield model is removed and her attacks are justified as being done by the Viridi Palm or Viridi Claws, that'd work well and differentiate her enough from Palutena.

Admittedly though, I don't see this degree of work going into another KIU rep unless the numbers in the ballot justified it, and I doubt they did. But hey, who knows, maybe a lot of people bought that Viridi costume.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Admittedly though, I don't see this degree of work going into another KIU rep unless the numbers in the ballot justified it, and I doubt they did. But hey, who knows, maybe a lot of people bought that Viridi costume.

From some results posted in the Smash Ultimate Discussion Thread, Viridi is usually right behind Shadow and/or tied somewhere with Hades