Alright, as a note, I didn't want to bump old threads and in any case there were none in the workshop area asking what I am.
So in the character threads, matchup discussions are starting up and B+ seems to be past any major changes. In light of the situation, I feel it's time to start asking where characters stand in Brawl Plus in relation to the vBrawl tiers.
However, I don't want a tier discussion; this thread is limited to which characters are not as good as they were in vBrawl (with respect to other characters), at this point.
Who does not have as many good matchups, who has more bad matchups, not who is "crazy good or has so many combos!!!!1!1"
From what I have gathered, mostly heavy characters or those who were previously very highly ranked have dropped positions. ie: Bowser, Ike, metaknight, diddy, ddd, snake... and a few characters that im guessing about: Ice climbers, r.o.b, and pit (yoshi already sucked...) Not to say that any of these characters weren't improved, but that's the point of this thread.
Reasons:
1. Bowser: Not any fault of his own, despite many improvements, hitstun allows combos, many characters can combo, and combos are most effective on heavy characters. Also, with momentum, characters like bowser are more easily gimped.
2. Ike: Like bowser, vulnerable to combos, and easily gimped. His attack speed is fine for playing online but doesn't cut it otherwise.
3. Metaknight: nowhere to go but down. Not necessarily far down, but the fact is that someone else is now king of the hill in B+.
4. Diddy: I'm extremely unsure of this one since i love diddy and he always surprises me; his metagame revolves around bananas, and it seems to me that these can still be effective. However, other characters have become very effective at racking up damage, and I see diddy having a tougher time when he must control a greater portion of the game in order not to fall behind.
5. DDD: no chains, he's big, slow, and still has some absurd lag on quite a few moves. Mostly, though the combination of a previous high position and vulnerability to combos leads to my conclusion.
6. Snake: see other large, heavy characters. Also, campy metagame not as good in B+. Tougher to call than other heavies, as Snake has the uniquely quick and strong attacks still going for him, but i see him falling to characters like fox and falco more easily now.
7. Ice Climbers: given no chaingrab and not as many combos as other characters, this seems like a logical downgrade...
8. Pit: He's just not as buffed as everyone else; i will state right now i have no legitimate proof, just a gut feeling.
Please discuss this politely and kindly ignore the fact that i'm a noob. Im trying to create some general knowledge of where B+ is at.
Keep in mind, so many characters saw improvements that i expect responses to be varied, but I think that at this point a loose agreement can be reached. And since few characters were blatantly nerfed, then logically some characters just didn't get as much better as others.
Support opinions!!
So in the character threads, matchup discussions are starting up and B+ seems to be past any major changes. In light of the situation, I feel it's time to start asking where characters stand in Brawl Plus in relation to the vBrawl tiers.
However, I don't want a tier discussion; this thread is limited to which characters are not as good as they were in vBrawl (with respect to other characters), at this point.
Who does not have as many good matchups, who has more bad matchups, not who is "crazy good or has so many combos!!!!1!1"
From what I have gathered, mostly heavy characters or those who were previously very highly ranked have dropped positions. ie: Bowser, Ike, metaknight, diddy, ddd, snake... and a few characters that im guessing about: Ice climbers, r.o.b, and pit (yoshi already sucked...) Not to say that any of these characters weren't improved, but that's the point of this thread.
Reasons:
1. Bowser: Not any fault of his own, despite many improvements, hitstun allows combos, many characters can combo, and combos are most effective on heavy characters. Also, with momentum, characters like bowser are more easily gimped.
2. Ike: Like bowser, vulnerable to combos, and easily gimped. His attack speed is fine for playing online but doesn't cut it otherwise.
3. Metaknight: nowhere to go but down. Not necessarily far down, but the fact is that someone else is now king of the hill in B+.
4. Diddy: I'm extremely unsure of this one since i love diddy and he always surprises me; his metagame revolves around bananas, and it seems to me that these can still be effective. However, other characters have become very effective at racking up damage, and I see diddy having a tougher time when he must control a greater portion of the game in order not to fall behind.
5. DDD: no chains, he's big, slow, and still has some absurd lag on quite a few moves. Mostly, though the combination of a previous high position and vulnerability to combos leads to my conclusion.
6. Snake: see other large, heavy characters. Also, campy metagame not as good in B+. Tougher to call than other heavies, as Snake has the uniquely quick and strong attacks still going for him, but i see him falling to characters like fox and falco more easily now.
7. Ice Climbers: given no chaingrab and not as many combos as other characters, this seems like a logical downgrade...
8. Pit: He's just not as buffed as everyone else; i will state right now i have no legitimate proof, just a gut feeling.
Please discuss this politely and kindly ignore the fact that i'm a noob. Im trying to create some general knowledge of where B+ is at.
Keep in mind, so many characters saw improvements that i expect responses to be varied, but I think that at this point a loose agreement can be reached. And since few characters were blatantly nerfed, then logically some characters just didn't get as much better as others.
Support opinions!!
