variant pillaring...

[captainlukey]

hey guys,
ima really bored,
so i figured id bring up all the different types of pillaring....
some of wich i havent actually seen, but i know they are out there...
so if you guys could add some that you know, and discuss them with me, id feel a hell of a lot less bored...

so here are some that i know of...

1., standard pillar- to perform: shffld dair shine over and over again, (most typical and fastest of the pillars), this one is probly the best straight out one, used to put pressure on the opponants shield, works well cause if they go for the shield grab they will be shined,
this is not frame perfect obviously and can be escaped... but its harder than it looks.

2. double shine pillar- to perform: shffld dair,shine, short hop shine, double jump dair,
this is a lot slower and can be used to gimp those *******s that can escape the traditional one.... and if they roll out u can chase with the bdouble jump... clever rite.

3. jab pillar (i made this one up as far as i know but it works for me most of the time)
to perform:shffld dair,shine, shffled dair jab
this basically just throws something into the mix i wouldnt go around doin everytime like you would with the traditional one,(and if there shield is still up and they are not expecting it)you can grab them, or go into another pillar etc...
just gives you some more options...

4. the tin man (figured this out myself) to perform:
hang on the edge edgehog style, tap down and then jump onto stage (similar to ehdl)
but dair and fastfall make sure you l cancel, slap into the shine, then wavedash back to the edge to begin again (the hardest part is getting the waveshine consistent without turning around) and repeat...
this one is extremely situational and ive never got more than 3 pillars this way...
but its handy and an excellent tech to throw in there.... especially to jaunt your opponant who hopefully isnt expecting it cause lets face it... everyone expects ehdl from falco these days....

5. pillar to JC grab, to perform: dair, shine, jc grab...
just another option out of a pillar, handy and works well most of the time...
gets u a free grab out of a pillar if your spacing is good enuff.

6. Multi shine pillaring. To perform: dair to shine,shine,shine,shine
im not going to go into how to perform the multishine, as i figure everyone would know about it,
this one is really hard, really really hard, but almost inescapable...
just dair into the shield and shine like **** and watch as the opponant tries desperatly to escape... and if they wont put the shield down then just bust it wide open...
you can also JC a grab out of anyone of the shinez for a free grab... or jc an upsmash..
i can only do about five of these on command before i lose timing so i ussually JC a grab after about the third on a shield...

well those are the ones i know...
please throw yours in here or discuss
lukey out
peace...

 

[Cinder]

Y'know, if you expanded a little bit, I could see this thread getting stickied...but yeah, I'm gonna go try out the Jab Pillar...sounds kinda cool...

 

[captainlukey]

Y'know, if you expanded a little bit, I could see this thread getting stickied...but yeah, I'm gonna go try out the Jab Pillar...sounds kinda cool...

really?
its a pitty i dont know any more...
i was flat out thinkin of those ones really...
what u think about the tin man?
and do you know any more...?

 

[Cinder]

The Tin Man? Seems pretty tough, but would make for an awesome combo for a combo vid...

Btw, no, I can't think of any more...I'll let ya know if I think of somethin'...

 

[captainlukey]

The Tin Man? Seems pretty tough, but would make for an awesome combo for a combo vid...

Btw, no, I can't think of any more...I'll let ya know if I think of somethin'...

cheers cinder...
do you like live online or somethin....
i swear your on like all the time...
second only to hydro kirby lol

 

[Cinder]

cheers cinder...
do you like live online or somethin....
i swear your on like all the time...
second only to hydro kirby lol

Trust me...my life is Smash/Smashboards...I'm not gonna be on much longer, though...I gotta get some sleep, or school's gonna be hell tomorrow...

 

[captainlukey]

lol...
schools hell anyway

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Dair -> Shine -> JC ->Grab. Almost guaranteed, even if you aren't frame perfect. A lot of people expect you to go into Dair repeats or JC a few Shines, but this way, even if Falco's grab is garbage, you land a free hit, and on certain characters, guaranteed follow ups.

Most people don't Shine JC Grab with Falco. It's really good.

 

[Cinder]

^Oh, yeah, I've heard of that one...I could really make use of that...

@Captainlukey: I know rite...but it's even worse when you're running on a few hours of sleep...

 

[captainlukey]

^Oh, yeah, I've heard of that one...I could really make use of that...

@Captainlukey: I know rite...but it's even worse when you're running on a few hours of sleep...

i feel that ima glad i dont go there anymore....

thanx knee,
original post updated,
got 2 more in there...

and @cinder i cant find the thread i asked u about vids...

i was just wonderin if you gots any vids i can take a gandar at..
like newer ones with some mad skills?

 

[Cinder]

^Meh...I haven't gotten any good fights on tape yet...last time IT came over, we forgot to record >_<...I'm gonna try and see if he'll come over this weekend, so we can get some vids...either that, or the CPU (but that wouldn't be fun)

 

[captainlukey]

^ u vs tope would be awesome to watch...
if u ever get one recorded, pm me and ill watch it...

anyone with more options pls post...

 

[Red.]

twin has some good pillaring with his falco but those vids are alittle old. Lambchops and Dashizwiz would be good ones to watch.

 

[clowsui]

pillaring is getting a hella lot of counters these days, just learn the basic pillar and maybe pillar jab (that's been used ages ago, pc's used it a lot more than other falcos have i think). pillar jc grab might be useful too...but yeah, those three are the basic and "well-known" pillars. one does not need to be "proficient" at those pillars, but one needs to know them in order to mix up mgames

 

[captainlukey]

pillaring is getting a hella lot of counters these days, just learn the basic pillar and maybe pillar jab (that's been used ages ago, pc's used it a lot more than other falcos have i think). pillar jc grab might be useful too...but yeah, those three are the basic and "well-known" pillars. one does not need to be "proficient" at those pillars, but one needs to know them in order to mix up mgames

one thinks you said one too much...
say me or I....
and also thats why i have posted some pillar options...
cause the straight out one will only cut it to a point, and these ones just provides more options...
at least in ones opinion

 

[SpeedAcE]

If you're frame perfect with your pillaring you shouldn't get shield grabbed, correct?

 

[Cinder]

^Sounds about right to me...that's why it's so good...and why no one tries to shield grab a pillaring Falco...

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

You can be grabbed. There is something like 9 frames in which there is no stun. Because of this, virtually all standing grabs, which go off in 7 frames, can get through to you if the opponent shield grabs you within the first 2 frames or so. Very few people can do this. Someone needs to correct my frame data.

 

[xelad1]

You can sheild grab a frame perfect pillaring falco like the knee of justice said. I think scotu has a thread somewhere that explains which frames you can't grab on and which you can. Its not that hard if you get used to the timing. Dashizwiz's variant of pillaring to double shine is much more effective on a player who stays in their sheild a lot though requires pretty good techskill to pull of consistently in matches. The best way to not get grabbed is to vary your timing on the pillar when you start so your opponent doesn't get used to it, otherwise its pretty easy to grab right after the shine.

 

[Miharu]

It's especially easy for Ganon to shieldgrab unwary Falcos, simply due to the fact that his shield is so large. Improperly performed pillars will result more down-time between the shieldstuns, which equates to an easy grab.

It's also quite common nowadays to see Fox/Marth/Sheik/Peach/etc grabbing through Falco's pillars.

 

[SpeedAcE]

Is it fair to assume that most people won't try to grab a pillaring Falco? I would assume so, since incorrect timing would result in a hit. 2 frames doesn't really seem like much of a 'human' opening.

 

[Cinder]

^Yeah, but it is possible...I haven't seen anyone try, but in theory, it can happen...

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

****:
shfl'd dair -> shine -> jc and shffl d-air over their head -> continue to eat their shield however you want.

 

[Miharu]

Is it fair to assume that most people won't try to grab a pillaring Falco? I would assume so, since incorrect timing would result in a hit. 2 frames doesn't really seem like much of a 'human' opening.

You'd be surprised. At higher levels of play, properly timed shieldgrabs are fairly common. Go play M2K or any of the other high-level Marths, and you'll see why.

It also becomes pretty obvious, after you've been playing Falcos for a while, when it's safe to attempt a shieldgrab.

 

[Fuzzy Guts]

Shine->JC-Grab is too good.

 

[xelad1]

I do it all the time... shield grabbing a pillaring falco isn't as hard as everyone makes it sound.

Also I don't know where people are saying "2 frames" to grab. There are 14 frames in which you can grab falco. 2 frames... that's closer to pillaring with fox's multishine in which there is only 1 frame every so often to grab during.

 

[TemPesT-]

umm no ones mentioned dair > utilt this is just like pillaring, but used on the semi floaty's

 

[Miharu]

umm no ones mentioned dair > utilt this is just like pillaring, but used on the semi floaty's

No it's not. Far from it. Dair -> utilt should only be used when you get the dair in, and at higher percentages on both floaties and the rest of the cast. There are a few other situations in which dair -> utilt would work, with one of them being landing the dair so you are on the back of their shield, and utilting after you've predicted the shieldgrab; otherwise you're just asking to get shieldgrabbed.

 

[SpeedAcE]

If the previous information is true, what is the best way to prevent getting shield grabbed with Falco? I thought pillaring was acceptable, but if there is a way to counter it I need to take opposing measures.

Obviously Dair -> Shine -> JC Grab is useful, as is Dair'ing past your opponent to get behind him. Anything else?

 

[Speedsk8er]

5. pillar to JC grab, to perform: dair, shine, jc grab...
just another option out of a pillar, handy and works well most of the time...
gets u a free grab out of a pillar if your spacing is good enuff.
.

I don't main Falco but I do that all the time if I notice that they're sheilding. I never see any of this in videos, why don't people do this more ofter? Especially against fox's?

 

[TemPesT-]

No it's not. Far from it. Dair -> utilt should only be used when you get the dair in, and at higher percentages on both floaties and the rest of the cast. There are a few other situations in which dair -> utilt would work, with one of them being landing the dair so you are on the back of their shield, and utilting after you've predicted the shieldgrab; otherwise you're just asking to get shieldgrabbed.

i didn't know we were only talking only about when your opponent has their shields up

 

[Miharu]

I didn't know I could read.

 

[Lorcl678]

Hehe, the Dair > JC Shine > JC Shine etc is actually very avoidable. Bryant (Nemesis) knows how to avoid it since I always JC shine so much. I'm trying to add some shine grabs into my JC shines :D.

 

[clowsui]

lol@tempest

pillaring = shield pressure technique
how can pillaring be performed with the absence of a shield?

 

[Lorcl678]

How to Counter JC Shines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjbRMKjl0b0

Watch 2:27

 

[xelad1]

How to Counter JC Shines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjbRMKjl0b0

Watch 2:27

that was pretty sick, on both your parts. I think your jc shines were coming out a little slow towards the end though which is why he could grab you.

 

[technomancer]

Techno's Shieldbreak combo:
Laser(shielded), Dair approach, Shine, Dair, Double Shine, JC Usmash.

Funny vs. Jiggs, otherwise this is something easily rolled out of. Doesn't work on most slidey characters.

 

[captainlukey]

why is it that the dair is the pillaring move...

fair works just as well in my opinion....

but does this make for different frames that the opponant has to escape...

i wouldnt go and try to fair pillar for ever but it couldnt be to bad rite....?

 

[Pikaville]

What about the one where you waveshine behind them after you dair them then shine them again repeat.PC Chris uses it a bit.Not sure if its in a category of its own though.

 

[captainlukey]

What about the one where you waveshine behind them after you dair them then shine them again repeat.PC Chris uses it a bit.Not sure if its in a category of its own though.

easily avoided...
but a good mix up,
not sure if i should add that to the original stuff...
ill think about it lol