Official v2.0.0 Patch Discussion Thread

[Yikarur]

You mean without factoring in the 1v1 multiplier, right? The other staff and I thought that it made sense to save the step of factoring in the 1v1 multiplier since competitive players are the target audience of the thread.
Though I suppose having both would be the best option for maximum convenience.



Yes

The game doesn't use the 1v1 multiplier for any formular. The game always calculates the damage and everything involving it and THEN puts the 1v1 multiplier on top of it.
For example, Snake's Cipher Armor is 7%. This does not factor in 1on1 Multiplier so if your move does 6.9% damage, it does 8.28% 1on1 damage but it would still not break the armor.
Calculating with the base% is important and thus should be used when displaying numbers.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Zapp Branniglenn Super thanks for your input. Since every single value I labbed is exactly identical to the findings you found, except Yoshi's being off due to whatever wack thing I was doing... We can safely say Rosa FAir is 84>.

Yes 84 is correct, and I added the post patch numbers for Rosa, Cloud, and Ken to my list. Even if we don't have pre-patch values, we may as well have something.

 

[shrooby]

Okay, I finished counting numbers between patches. shrooby Here are some clarifications for the Patch notes. All damage is with 1v1 multipliers on. And when I say FAF I do mean total frames plus one.

Thank you for your help as always!

Also I have to echo others in saying that I hope we don't use the 1v1 multiplier in future patch notes. The numbers are way more even in terms of base damage. It saves a step in calculation for anybody looking up the damage in the games code. And for manual testers it takes a second to turn off by pausing and setting CPUs to 2.

The game doesn't use the 1v1 multiplier for any formular. The game always calculates the damage and everything involving it and THEN puts the 1v1 multiplier on top of it.
For example, Snake's Cipher Armor is 7%. This does not factor in 1on1 Multiplier so if your move does 6.9% damage, it does 8.28% 1on1 damage but it would still not break the armor.
Calculating with the base% is important and thus should be used when displaying numbers.

Noted. I'll discuss it with the other staff.

 

[MasterZaden]

Anyone else want me to test anything before I update my game? I can do distance measuring using training mode units and trajectory lines.

The only things I don't know how to do is measure frames and accurately measuring a Metered Final Smash since I can't get those in Training Mode.

I already took screenshots of the knockback of every move I saw in the patch notes, but some changes seem to be unlisted, so you guys can specify a move you want the knockback screenshots of.

I also didn't check those moves that say "made it easier for multiple hits to connect" since those are extremely quick and hard to catch the trajectory lines.

Also, a distance measurement that could be included is Luma's D-Tilt slide, but that is a nightmare to try to reproduce and measure consistently.

 

[Lavani]

Dabuz made a good tweet comparing Rosa dtilt pre and post patch:

Explaining Rosa's dtilt buff pic.twitter.com/DApVsZ9XVm

— Liquid | Dabuz (@DabuzSenpai) January 31, 2019

 

[Vipermoon]

Zapp Branniglenn

Thanks! First off, it's so good seeing the same people from Smash 4 helping out for the early stages of this game as well. Even for changes so minute, it makes you wonder why some of them were made. Figuring all that out must have been hard work.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

This patch has me "delightfully underwhelmed". I'm happy the amount of balance changes was extremely light and short reaching since the meta is still young and there was naturally fear for the sake of Inkling and K Rool. I think they'll be okay. I was particularly worried they'd be handing out huge buffs like candy to characters or moves that don't need it. The only buff I kind of disagree with is the one on Bowser's Dsmash. It's a move that 2 frames and has 8% damage armor that kicks in on the frame you release from charge, and now it kills at 60 on the ledge. Not the most incredible move in his kit, but definitely a great niche against the right recoveries, it didn't need help in any department other than its insane endlag. If you asked me to pick the top three moves Bowser is getting low use out of, they'd be Dash attack for sure, then probably jab and Dtilt.

Zapp Branniglenn

Thanks! First off, it's so good seeing the same people from Smash 4 helping out for the early stages of this game as well. Even for changes so minute, it makes you wonder why some of them were made. Figuring all that out must have been hard work.

I'm willing to bet minute changes to ledge lockouts and other stuff were made all the time in Smash 4 and it just slipped under the radar. Particularly in that game's first six months of updates when we were lacking in data. My guess as to why make such small changes is probably just because the illusion of buffs and support is often all anybody needs to be happy. We're supposed to look at this long list and say "whoaaaaa, here come the buuuuuffffffffs". These nintendo patch notes are a godsend, by the way. All I have to do is get numbers for things they list out, it's so easy. They may not use our terminology, but all you have to do is head to Help > Techniques to see what they call things. And none of their patch notes are false as far as I can tell.

Anyone else want me to test anything before I update my game? I can do distance measuring using training mode units and trajectory lines.

Could you maybe snap a screenshot of Samus' Homing and Super Missiles to see how far they travel before exploding? Preferably on the training mode stage. Just a number of how many boxes worth of distance would suffice. Because the homing missile seemed the same to me in terms of range.

Also shrooby , some corrections for the patch notes:

• Duck Hunt's Clay Shooting has a typo. FAF is 65 from 61
• Pichu's Pummel is 14 hitlag from 15.
• Little Mac's Landing lag on N-air is unchanged, the nintendo patch notes were referring to its autocancel, and once again I neglected to get the pre-patch number. In post patch, Mac's N-air autocancels on frame 16 onward
• PAC-MAN's D-air autocancel value has a typo. It was reduced to 50, not 60.

 

[Luigi player]

Anyone else want me to test anything before I update my game? I can do distance measuring using training mode units and trajectory lines.

The only things I don't know how to do is measure frames and accurately measuring a Metered Final Smash since I can't get those in Training Mode.

I already took screenshots of the knockback of every move I saw in the patch notes, but some changes seem to be unlisted, so you guys can specify a move you want the knockback screenshots of.

I also didn't check those moves that say "made it easier for multiple hits to connect" since those are extremely quick and hard to catch the trajectory lines.

Also, a distance measurement that could be included is Luma's D-Tilt slide, but that is a nightmare to try to reproduce and measure consistently.

if you could test some Luigi stuff that would be nice.
does aerial (uncharged or it shouldn't matter, but maybe test misfire too) sideB have more endlag in the air (or how much does it have)?

and his usmash has more knockback? (or how much does it have prepatch)if possible test inner and outer ("sweetspot") knockback.

sadly there are no values for this anywhere and usmash isn't even listed in the patch changes thread.

 

[Tizio Random]

Here are all the patch notes for

shrooby if you can please update the general thread it would be great, many thanks!

This patch was actually amazing for her, they got rid of the stupid "black hole" effect on Luma and fixed a lot of stuff. Can't wait to see more in the future.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

if you could test some Luigi stuff that would be nice.
does aerial (uncharged or it shouldn't matter, but maybe test misfire too) sideB have more endlag in the air (or how much does it have)?

Luigi's Side B has 18 endlag, or 32 if he lands during that 18 frame animation which he will if there's ground directly beneath him. Interesting, I don't know if that 18 number is new or not, but I know the 32 number was there pre-patch. The only for sure change I found with Luigi Side B in this patch is that the landing lag state was reduced from 41 to 39. I assumed that was what the nintendo patch notes were referring to, but perhaps the 18 frame animation in the air is new as well?

 

[shrooby]

Here are all the patch notes for

shrooby if you can please update the general thread it would be great, many thanks!

This patch was actually amazing for her, they got rid of the stupid "black hole" effect on Luma and fixed a lot of stuff. Can't wait to see more in the future.

Could you elaborate on the changes to Luma's physics? If I'm understanding correctly, it doesn't reset to it's default position as quickly now? How does this factor into making Luma move further back during RAR bair?
Thanks for your help!

 

[Tizio Random]

Could you elaborate on the changes to Luma's physics? If I'm understanding correctly, it doesn't reset to it's default position as quickly now? How does this factor into making Luma move further back during RAR bair?
Thanks for your help!

Yes. Before this patch Luma returned in his default position immediately after (and sometimes even during...) every attack. That's why RAR bair wasn't possible and some attacks like jab whiffed for basically no reason. Now they simply reverted him to his Smash 4 state where he stays in place and returns after a while.

My guess is that they tried something new for this game, realize that didn't work and just changed to how it was before (for the best).

Also no problem, glad to be helpful!

 

[MasterZaden]

if you could test some Luigi stuff that would be nice.
does aerial (uncharged or it shouldn't matter, but maybe test misfire too) sideB have more endlag in the air (or how much does it have)?

and his usmash has more knockback? (or how much does it have prepatch)if possible test inner and outer ("sweetspot") knockback.

sadly there are no values for this anywhere and usmash isn't even listed in the patch changes thread.

I'm not good with measuring frames, but thankfully Zapp answered the Side-B question with some details.

Could you tell me where the sweet and sour spots are on Luigi's Up-Smash? I measured the knockback, but I could only find one hitbox.

Could you maybe snap a screenshot of Samus' Homing and Super Missiles to see how far they travel before exploding? Preferably on the training mode stage. Just a number of how many boxes worth of distance would suffice. Because the homing missile seemed the same to me in terms of range.

I got Samus and Dark Samus Missile ranges, tested in a straight line for both types of missiles. I found that if you want Homing Missiles to travel in a straight line, you need to fire them at a character of the same height, so I tested Samus and Dark Samus against themselves respectively. I'll post my work when I patch my game and get the new values.

 

[GP2]

How is FoD looking in the new patch?