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Using Up B in the air as an offensive move.

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
lol, didn't notice that one of the above avatars belongs to a turtlecake, and thought Ademisk was losing it a little.

I keep playing as Ness and thinking, "I wish this move were better/stronger/faster..."
Whatever. Do you guys think they'll move mother 3 over here after brawl's release?

Or maybe at least Earthbound on VC? I'm really tired of waiting.
 

Ademisk

Smash Champion
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
2,759
Location
Kirkland, Washington
Ness's major weakness doesn't lie in his moves. Its the opponent's ability to combo him, and his lack of combo ability. He has no chain grabs, very few attack into grab combos, very few grab into attack combos, and only 1 attack combo that works against a total of 2 characters.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
nah, ness has more than one combo. They just usually aren't all that many hits.

Dairs and dash attacks are good for combos. Look @ mow vs. scar. There's a bunch of small combos.

But to be reasonable, good DI escapes almost any of Ness's combos, and Ness has trouble comboing into a finisher.
 

Ademisk

Smash Champion
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
2,759
Location
Kirkland, Washington
I don't consider those combos. And like you said, Ness may be able to hit people successively, but it doesn't constitute a combo unless it's inescapable.

Also, watch Simna's videos, use the weak bair to combo into finishers better. He used it in the combo video preview if I remember corectly.

The handicap of being comboed while not being able to combo is immense. If Ness gets hit once corretly by a good Falco, he's up 40-60% instantly, whereas it takes Ness an immense amount of effort to get enough hits into to create that percent. That is why Ness is bottom tier.

I'm still trying to figure out how to overcome that...edgeguarding is one way, but Ness doesn't have a great recovery either so its evened out. YYG and PKT mindgames are another way, if Ness can get in his big blows, it really evens up the damage, but they're incredibly difficult to pull off, especially against people that are good enough to really destroy Ness.

Honestly it's an irritating situation. Ness doesn't have the ability to do lots of damage quickly in any situation, he's the kind of character who builds it up over the course of a battle, but in order to win with that strategy, you need to be able to avoid the enemy a lot while hitting them, fairs and nairs, uairs, and PK Fire are pretty much what you're working with. Use the bat and your bair if you can, but in all of that, Ness has it harder than anyone else. The only other real way to fight against those odds is by killing people at low percentages, which Ness is...pretty bad at. Not horrible, but also not good.

I'm hoping Simna's combo video will reveal some newer strategies on taking people apart with Ness. Just small things, really.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Marth's fair juggle is escapable at almost all percents with all characters... and it's the most well known marth combo. In fact its so escapable that marths usually use the uair and bair to supplement the juggle, and it's still escapable.
 
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