Useful Mind game tricks (use sparringly)

[El Frosty]

ok, firstly, hi there fellow sonic lovers, origonally a toon link lover myself but im quickly finding myself seduced by sonic (ewww furry!). Ive not yet myself played in many tournies, in fact I've only been in one and it didnt go well (too slow with my shield, among other things) :-s

anyhoo, thought id post a few tips regarding the spin dash here, seeing as the first two points at least seem as far as i can tell, bizzarly overlooked by the sonic guides here on smash boards, despite them being particularly useful in what sonic does best, mindgames.

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SDVH (Spin Dash Vertical Jump)
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both side B and down B can be cancelled before release by simply hitting jump whilst still holding the relevent buttons. the result is sonic releases his attack straight upwards for some damage (about 6% if i recall corectly) and leaves you free to follow on with any of his other moves, the point? more mindgame potential. whilst charging a down B all too often have i seen peeps trying to leap over me in order to suprise attack from behind or above, and been able to catch them off guard with this move. . a good trick I've found is to spin jum to Nair in order to suprise those who try to rush you when you start charging a spin move.
use it too much and as with anything it begins to get predictable.
it is also very useful for dodging a projectile.
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SDS (Spin Dash Stall)
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Simple, when charging a Down B, let go of B and the spin will stop. this move has horrendous lag, and for the most part is completly useless, you often better cancelling with shield, spin jump or just letting the spin dash go, however in some situations ive found it preferable not to move when deciding to charge a spin dash, for exaple a Ganon player is charging his warlock punch just to hit you when you release the spin,
Sure its situational, but hey, its a nice little tool when used correctly in our mindgame strategy eh?

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SDDH (Spin Dash Diagonal Hop)
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Short and sweet, although i think this one has been mentioned in one of the many guides, if your C-Stick is set to smash attacks, try jabbing FSmash on it while charging a spin attack, the result is something similar to spin jumping, but diagonally instead of vertically. useful if for whatever reason you felt the need to overuse spin jumping and have become predictable with it (you fool!)


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SHAD (Short Hop Ariel Dodge)
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this is more a general strategy, but ive found sonic to be the most effective at using it, due to the apperence of the move, and the requirement of a speedy approach
basic strategy is to start to dash forward at your opponant, and just before you get in range hit jump IMMEDIATLY followed by shield. the result is a short hop with an air dodge (im sure its already been long since given a name as some kind of bogus "advanced technique"). this i find just works well as sonic, since he just effortlessly flips over the opponant and lands saftly directly behind him. chances are, unless someone is expecting this move (as with anything) he will have tried to smash you on your approach, thinking you were being careless, and now be in those precious few lag frames after his attack, leaving you free to punish (if your quick)

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i sure hope ive been some assistance to you guys, normally i wouldnt post anything like this as it shows my general noobishness, but i have yet to see any of these three techniques mentioned in the major guides posted in the stickies, so felt the need to at least point out they are there and can be incorperated into a general mindgame playstyle. anything else i tend to use when playing sonic has been mentioned repeatebly in the stickies, so i would rather you go read them for a less long-winded explaination of those techniques.

thank you for reading. critique appreciated

edit: fixed to include "official" terminoligy (thanks Teh Umby)

 

[Umby]

That "Dash Flip" is commonly referred to as SHAD (Short Hop Aerial Dodge). The "Spin C-stick" is probably what we call Spinshot.

 

[El Frosty]

pfft, fair enough, look, i read the stickies and didnt see any explaination of those techniques, regardless of what name they have been given. you know, for stickies they are rather thin on the ground on what most newbies like myself are looking for, and that s information on these techniques.

in case its not bleeding obvious from my rather newbish post ive gone and figured out these by myself, despite reading greedily any guide i could find on improving my game, i couldnt find any reference to these simple techniques which it now seems "everyone" knows about...

jeeze, the point of posting this was to point out the fact that these techniques are glossed over in the various stickies despite being some useful tricks in sonics arsenal.

case in point,

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170851 this topic,

11 guides, even the most relevent threads "mindgames with sonic" by yourself, and spin dash mechanics, by tenki. both of you have pointed out some excellent points about sonics moveset which have helped me improve my sonic game considerably, but yet fail to mention the majority of these techniques (ok i do apologise, you do in fact mention the VSDJ in the former topic).

so thank you for providing me with the names for these techniques (**** pros, whats with all the acrynyms?) and seriously, thanks for the guides that are up, i dont think enough people appreciate the work you guys put into these things. but can i please ask that "little" techniques such as the ones I mentioned are put in some of them, and not just gloseed over as an abbreviation that people assume we know the meaning of? (took me 5 months to realise what DI was and that i was doing it all along :-s) so that noobs such as myself dont end up making plonkers of themselves in future?

 

[Umby]

SHAD is probably somewhere in the tactical discussion boards.

Spinshot is explained in TwinkleToes's thread, though I don't believe he mentions that c-stick is one way of performing it. We've discussed it in a past thread, is all.

As far as vert Spin Dash Jump, that was just a name I made up for the purpose of my thread. No one's really collaborated on it or really tried to used the term besides myself, most likely.

Letting Down B charge run out is something I believe we can figure out on our own.

I have no doubt Tenki discusses much about Spin Dash Canceling to fake the opponent out. He whores the move enough.

My Mindgames thread is incomplete, thanks for reminding me that I should probably complete it, even though I'll probably still get lazy about it.

Your input is appreciated. I'm not trying to debunk anything, though I do think the information might be redundantly presented, seeing as it's mostly been said before.

 

[memphischains]

woooo0o0o0o0o0o0o0o

 

[El Frosty]

*smile* maybe i can help somehow on he spinshot vertical jump... been abusing the hell outta it in my own games just latly... its definatly a useful technique anyway.

*heads over to umbrys post*

 

[CaliburChamp]

You forgot to add spin dash cancel. side b, shield, it's a feint spin dash that tricks opponents often. And aerial down+B charge to shield for another mindgame. Then go in for the grab since your opponent will shield your spin charge not knowing you are canceling it into a grab instead.

 

[Tenki]

I say we uh...
combine whatever 'new' stuff we have here with the old mindgames thread.

You forgot to add spin dash cancel. side b, shield, it's a feint spin dash that tricks opponents often. And aerial down+B charge to shield for another mindgame. Then go in for the grab since your opponent will shield your spin charge not knowing you are canceling it into a grab instead.

You know, people can just grab you out of ASC cancel.

or any spindash, actually.

If they catch on, the next step is to ASC out of their grab range then grab them when they miss. lol

Juuust wait til I get the spring thread started :D

 

[R4ZE]

You can cause them to be unable to grab you a few ways. (im talking about shield canceled ASC btw)


1. (release ASC lower to the ground than normal, landing a bit in front of the opponent) If you land ASC far away, as in aim low, then sonic will slide, and you can do a shield grab. this will changed the timing of the grab, and also increase sonics grab range by a bit, which is considerable considering his lack of it.

2. (release ASC so that you land righ in front of the opponent as if aiming to undercute their legs)ASC can also be released directly i call this the on target hit.. its basicly u land right in front of them, and any player that has fought against this technique a lot will grab you out of this, thus this approach usually should be avoided.

3. (release ASC high, as if aiming to hit them in the face or on their head, to make sonic cut throught their character space at a 45 degree angle) the third one, i find most useful is the high ASC approach. This approach sometimes will not result ina grab but usually will land both hits of ASC (so long as you hold forward) and can knock opponents back into a grab-able state... which is nice considering you just hit them twice and now have them grabbed.

each technique is more or less usable depending on what character you are fighting. but then again.. on some characters ASC in general is a bad idea.




to add to the mind games: occasionally i like to start an ASC, and then jump cancel it to stall, and then start another ASC afterwards. this is a great mind game that will often confuse your opponent. I suggest using it when you know your opponent is ready for an ASC.


the fact that ASC is cancel-able by jumping or shielding on the ground, this is an amazing approach for sonic most of the time