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*UPDATED* Kill Set Up with Pikachu (and other misc.)
- Thread starter JayWon
- Start date
Angiance
Smash Lord
You're not funny, quit it
I've been studying Pika day by day for near 3 years, so I'm pretty far ahead tyvm
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Steam
Smash Hero
Then I'm wondering where it all went wrong.
Angiance
Smash Lord
You're all fat
Imma beat you all up when I get online
Be ready~ < 3 < 3 < 3
Imma beat you all up when I get online
Be ready~ < 3 < 3 < 3
dettadeus
Smash Lord
Angiance
Smash Lord
Still going on with this whole T-Jolt thing, even though I've tried to drop the discussion days ago...God, aren't *you* quite the loser
I'll just eay this directly: DROP IT
I'll just eay this directly: DROP IT
Steam
Smash Hero
Sorry I've just been practicing my SH jolt followups. I've found I can get a guaranteed follow up into anything if the jolt breaks their shield!
Angiance
Smash Lord
Loser~
~Radiance~
Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow
This conversation needs to die. Angiance I know you spent a lot of time in the pika social thread but studying him hasn't given you correct knowledge. Kaylo, myself, leaf, esam, and anyone notable from
Our community will tell you that you shouldn't do half of what you said, and we have tourney placings to back it up. Please stop with these ill founded claims, they are erroneous.
Our community will tell you that you shouldn't do half of what you said, and we have tourney placings to back it up. Please stop with these ill founded claims, they are erroneous.
Steam
Smash Hero
I got tagged again, apparently I was missed. hi, ilu <3 :3
~Radiance~
Meow-Meow, Choco-Chow
How has this thread essentially become a flame war lol. Also diggin the rengy-po avy steam. Feel like I haven't played against one in
A while
A while
JayWon
Smash Journeyman
lol so is SH or FH better for thunder jolt?
dettadeus
Smash Lord
Only time you can SH jolt is when you do it and move off a platform. End of discussion lol.
Steam
Smash Hero
Neither have I because I haven't played league really in months
@above- FH jolt is better because it offers more control and you can DJ out of it.
Angiance
Smash Lord
However, all 3 should be kept in mind, for variability
Standing Jolt: comes out the fastest, but no mobility or follow-up, purely a mix
SH Jolt: the Air Jolt will land on the ground earlier than it would from FH Jolt, and you'll have aerial mobility, but you'll be stuck in place for a bit after you land; use this variant for halting the opponent's momentum quicker
FH T-Jolt: it takes a while for the Air Jolt touch ground, and you're also stuck in the air longer, however you'll have mobility
And also be able to land with no lag; use this variant for comboing off of the Ground Jolt
Standing Jolt: comes out the fastest, but no mobility or follow-up, purely a mix
SH Jolt: the Air Jolt will land on the ground earlier than it would from FH Jolt, and you'll have aerial mobility, but you'll be stuck in place for a bit after you land; use this variant for halting the opponent's momentum quicker
FH T-Jolt: it takes a while for the Air Jolt touch ground, and you're also stuck in the air longer, however you'll have mobility
And also be able to land with no lag; use this variant for comboing off of the Ground Jolt
Steam
Smash Hero
SH jolt: use when you want to give your opponent a free powershield punish on reaction.
Angiance
Smash Lord
You keep all 3 in mind so that you have more to choose from, doofus
You TYPICALLY want to give yourself as much flexibility as possible in a fighting game, as using the same **** over and over makes you become >>> PREDICTABLE<<<
Neutral Jolt
SH Jolt
FH Jolt
Keep them all in mind
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dettadeus
Smash Lord
yes, keep them all in mind. especially keep in mind how punishable the first two are so you remember to use FH jolts.
Steam
Smash Hero
SH jolting limits your options as opposed to FH jolt, there is essentially no advantage to ever doing it off of SH unless you have more room to fall.
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Angiance
Smash Lord
That's insane, you're bascially limiting yourself by using one variation
dettadeus
Smash Lord
so in melee fox should mix up grounded lasers with shdl because otherwise he would be limiting his options, even though grounded lasers are significantly more punishable
got it
got it
Angiance
Smash Lord
IRRELEVANT T-Jolts are COMPLETELY different!!
dettadeus
Smash Lord
no it's literally the same concept
you have a lagless option in which you retain mobility or a laggy option where you are stuck in one place
nobody in their right mind should be picking the laggy option that keeps you stuck in one place
you have a lagless option in which you retain mobility or a laggy option where you are stuck in one place
nobody in their right mind should be picking the laggy option that keeps you stuck in one place
Steam
Smash Hero
You haven't played the game yet and you're arguing this adamantly against two people who are top 5 in their (crappy) region. pls.
Angiance
Smash Lord
Well, you BOTH still fail to realize that Pikachu IS STUCK IN THE GODDAMN AIR LONGER, that CAN be punished, all you gotta do is READ IT, which isn't that hard when you're USING THE SAME GOD DAMN VARIATION OVER AND OVER
Please Pikas, don't listen to these clowns, keep all 3 in mind, and mix it up
Please Pikas, don't listen to these clowns, keep all 3 in mind, and mix it up
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Steam
Smash Hero
the animation has the exact same duration, except when you FH you have control over your movement for the whole thing. in any situation where you could punish a FH jolt, you will be able to punish SH jolt easier because instead of being in the air retreating, pikachu will be on the ground stuck in the end of the animation. There's no advantages to SH jolting instead of FH jolting unless something is in the air above you, in which case you shouldn't be jolting at all.
pls get game before you become so opinionated.
Angiance
Smash Lord
It's not opinion, it's fact
You fail to aacknowledge the fact that from a SH the airjolt will touch ground faster than it would from a FH, so we'll be covered by it.
FH Jolt is as good, but it has flaws too...I mean, you have to wait longer for the ground jolt to come out, and that's the only good part of T-Jolt IS the ground jolt; Air Jolt isn't that great
The fact that practically ANY CHARACTER can simply run up and FH an aerial to eat THROUGH the Air Jolt AND hit Pika as he's >>>>> FLOATING IN THE AIR<<<<< is a pretty noticeable flaw, but on the other hand, if the Air Jolt actually makes it to the ground we gain fairly powerful stage control
You say SH Jolt can be shielded and punished, but technically anything can be shielded and punished if it's read, so that point is insufficient
To avoid being read and punished, they NEED TO ALL BE KEPT IN MIND for variability
But if you wish to use only one variation and get consistently punished then...I dunno what to tell ya
^ ~ ^
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Steam
Smash Hero
Thunderjolt by itself doesn't cover you ever, it takes like 20 frames to come out, has a distinctive audio cue, and is an EASY powershield. Any safety generated from jolting has to stem from the distance you can create between you and your opponent. SH jolting will always leave you in a more vulnerable position since you'll end up closer and on the ground. with FH jolt you'll be farther away and only immediately punishable by aerials. Of course FH jolt is quite punishable as well, but in any situation where you can punish FH jolt, you can punish a SH jolt even harder assuming you can powershield telegraphed projectiles. Tjolt is bad at close range, imagine that.
Having to wait longer for the jolt to hit the ground should only matter if the opponent is close enough to run underneath a retreating FH Jolt, and at that distance, you'll probably get punished even harder for SHing it for reasons I already mentioned. trying to approach with a SH jolt is even worse because you won't be able to keep up with the jolt to follow up properly because you'll be stuck sitting on the stage at the end of your animation, and if you do it at close enough range you'll likely get punished on hit.
if you're at that sort of range and try to SH jolt, they don't even need to powershield the jolt to punish you, some characters at low% can probably punish on hit. You'd also have to react insanely fast and have a meaty Fair to do what you'd describe, it would be much more realistic to just run underneath and then punish the ending frames of the move, but even then at that point Pika could move himself in the air to possibly avoid the punish. if you SH jolt you can do nothing and are stuck on the ground.
guess that means SH warlock punch is a viable mixup? the whole point was that jolt is powershieldable on reaction, doing it out of a short hop limits the distance you can retreat it and makes you all the more punishable. If you do jolts at close range you're unsafe either way, and god help you if you try to approach after a SH jolt.
to avoid being punished, you need to keep jolting in general in mind along with pikachu's other options. assuming your opponent knows how to shield you're always going to be worse off SH jolting, and even if they don't know how to shield your gains from SH jolt will be situational and minimal. Sometimes certain options just outclass others, Lucario's Dthrow is pretty good and true combos into his fair, but I've not used it a single time in a serious match because his Uthrow combos into his Fair, Nair and Uair and does more damage. It's not the best design but it is what it is.
=^w^=
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Angiance
Smash Lord
Once again...from a SH, the Air Jolt becomes a Ground Jolt faster, which is fairly useful if you run away and shoot it, or if you want to cover the ledge from far away. It's fine as long as it's used *wisely* alongside FH Jolt.
Why on Earth would anyone use T-Jolt at close range unless it's some kind of mix.
No really, why...
No really, why d'ya think i'd be tryin' to approach with SH Jolt? As I said, i'd knock you away and then do it as you're falling to cover the ground; or do it as you're camping a projectile to cover myself; or do it to cover the ledge from far away; or do it as I'm on a platform to land below it and have the Ground Jolt covering me from the platform...I mean, it has uses, dunno why y'all are pointing out the one single thing you can do to punish it, which is to read it, which will only happen if it's used predictably
I will say this again: ANYTHING can be read and punished, ANYTHING
Mix it up~
Why on Earth would anyone use T-Jolt at close range unless it's some kind of mix.
No really, why...
No really, why d'ya think i'd be tryin' to approach with SH Jolt? As I said, i'd knock you away and then do it as you're falling to cover the ground; or do it as you're camping a projectile to cover myself; or do it to cover the ledge from far away; or do it as I'm on a platform to land below it and have the Ground Jolt covering me from the platform...I mean, it has uses, dunno why y'all are pointing out the one single thing you can do to punish it, which is to read it, which will only happen if it's used predictably
I will say this again: ANYTHING can be read and punished, ANYTHING
Mix it up~
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Steam
Smash Hero
you don't have to get a read to punish SH jolt. it can be powershielded on reaction and if you aren't far enough away afterwards you're getting punished for it.
Angiance
Smash Lord
Which is why I said "as long as it's used *wisely,*" and to also not be predictable
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dettadeus
Smash Lord
let's look at the other side of this for a second.
your opponent gets hit by the grounded jolt. if you sh your jolt, you get no followup and can potentially be punished on hit. if you fh, you can get a grab, dtilt, usmash, dash attack, etc guaranteed bc you are able to act even before the jolt hits the ground.
you can argue about how punishable sh jolt is all you want (the answer is very), but if there is ANYTHING you literally cannot deny, it's this. we don't gain any actual stage control from the projectile if we aren't able to follow up on it hitting something because the opponent is at 0 risk from getting hit by a sh jolt.
your opponent gets hit by the grounded jolt. if you sh your jolt, you get no followup and can potentially be punished on hit. if you fh, you can get a grab, dtilt, usmash, dash attack, etc guaranteed bc you are able to act even before the jolt hits the ground.
you can argue about how punishable sh jolt is all you want (the answer is very), but if there is ANYTHING you literally cannot deny, it's this. we don't gain any actual stage control from the projectile if we aren't able to follow up on it hitting something because the opponent is at 0 risk from getting hit by a sh jolt.
Angiance
Smash Lord
INCORRECT
And I'm ending this discussion with this...
Use all 3; stay unpredictable.
Peace < 3 < 3 < 3
And I'm ending this discussion with this...
Use all 3; stay unpredictable.
Peace < 3 < 3 < 3
Steam
Smash Hero
.....
they aren't really 3 separate options as the opponent deals with them in the same way, one is just safer than the other two.
they aren't really 3 separate options as the opponent deals with them in the same way, one is just safer than the other two.
dettadeus
Smash Lord
Mause
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2014
- Messages
- 1
Yeah I don't see how that keeps someone unpredictable. All three variants have the same result to the opponent: bouncy thunder coming your way. It's way too slow a move to not notice so its not gonna catch people off guard unless they have a bag over their head.
If there's ever a time that I don't want to risk being "stuck in the air longer" then I just straight up won't use thunderjolt in the first place.
There's a big difference between "limiting yourself by using one variation" and improving yourself by avoiding poor choices; and that's when an option is virtually outclassed by another.
Like Roy
Roy sucked.
If there's ever a time that I don't want to risk being "stuck in the air longer" then I just straight up won't use thunderjolt in the first place.
There's a big difference between "limiting yourself by using one variation" and improving yourself by avoiding poor choices; and that's when an option is virtually outclassed by another.
Like Roy
Roy sucked.