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(Updated 2/10) Zelda - Metroid's gameplay info from brawl!

Metroid_01

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Alright, first I would like to say that I have never played Zelda (more than a few times) before Brawl, so I cant actually compare her to melee very well. I did try to play her a bit in melee after playing brawl, but it was pretty tough to do, since none of her cool skills from brawl were particularly helpful. Also, it occurred to me I have NO CLUE what the damage is for like any of her attacks. Ill try to remember next time ;).


Anyway, onto my impressions of her: Zelda rocks.
Its really true. I played with a few other folks and they were all impressed with how good Zelda has become in Brawl. So, now lets look at her moves:

B Moves-
Up B (Farore's Wind) - Zelda teleports a good distance to recover - I heard some of you guys saying she has more range on her Up B, but I didn't play Zelda nearly enough in Melee to get a feel for her range, so I dunno if thats true...but ill take yall's word for it. However, I can say this...it does appear to do damage and a small amount of knockback when she disappears and appears again. Unfortunately, this move is pretty slow...a few times when I thought I would make it in time, I got hit before she actually teleported...I dunno if it was that way in melee, but its worth noting.

Side B (Din's Fire) - Zelda launches a flaming sphere of doom - This seems to be the most popular buff around here (not that I blame anyone). As I have read here this move increases in damage, knockback, and damage radius the longer it moves. It also felt very fast and not particularly abusable. I managed to mess up approaches with it on more than one occasion as well. Also, the big thing was that at around max range it killed MetaKnight off the top of FinalD at 80%. Awesome.

Down B (Transform) - Sheik - I didn't play her in brawl, but after talking about the transformation time, we encountered a video where it seemed to speed up from Sheik to Zelda. I tested it in a couple different situations myself and could not verify that. Its definitely around 2 seconds long both ways, looks neat and has a ton of invincibility. But who cares about Sheik in brawl? Watch out, you can still get nailed as this move finishes. Also, I was informed that transforming removes all of the proration on attacks...but this is yet to be tested

Neutral B (Naryu's Love) - Zelda creates a shield around her and then swirls it around her, damaging nearby foes - This was a fun move. Its your typical brawl reflector in that it sends stuff back alot faster than it came to you. After playing both Zeldas, this Naryu's Love is definitely faster. It is definitely worth throwing this out from time to time if you wiff an aerial, the damage is sturdy and the knockback is reasonable.

Aerials -
Up Air - Zelda launches a quick burst of flame directly above her outstretched palm - You all know how this one goes, but now it has some awesome knockback along with it. It was a fairly quick attack overall (but I think it was in melee as well). Its definitely a solid kill move for Zelda, however I did not succeed in landing it as often as I would have liked...they learned to avoid this attack like the plague. The damage was pretty decent as well.

Forward Air - Zelda throws an aerial kick forward - It definitely has a smaller sweetspot than it used to, but the trade off is some nasty knockback. Also, when you do sweetspot this move, you and your opponent will freeze for just an instant (Extra DI frames), so realize this is a very easy move to DI now...but that wont save you at even moderate percents. I don't know anything about speed and range compared to melee, but it felt no different. HOWEVER, I recall that you could short hop a sweetspotted forward air into foes in melee, I could not perform that in this game...but I am sure with proper timing it can be done.

Back Air - Same as forward air, inst it? Looked like that to me anyways =/.

Down Air - Zelda stabs her foot downward - Its a real meteor! Like all Meteors in brawl, this sends them down very fast. It looked similar to how it was in melee. A sweetspot is required for this attack to meteor, but it felt alot easier to land than a Forward or Back aerial. When you fail to land the sweetspot, it sends them down pretty slowly. I just tested this for a little while, but it looks like all that a sweetspot down air (which is really not intuitive at all...the hitbox is somewhere around the front of her leg) on a foe on the ground just knocks them down, no upward trajectory at all.

Neutral Air - darn, I totally forgot to include this on the first posting. I had a hard time landing this move because it looked like Zelda had a high short hop and the hitbox looked pretty high, but when it did connect it was nice. Damage was alright, and it held them in for all the hits (like Mewtwo's neutral air). I forget how the knockback goes, but in reading the other Zelda thread its pretty good. woo.

Ground Attacks-

Smashes-
Forward Smash- Zelda reaches forward and damages and knocks back foes with magic - This move seemed to get a buff. I felt like it had really good priority. The knockback isn't amazing, but its still a kill move. Nobody managed to DI out of this (like I would imagine was possible in melee), but it might still be possible. The damage was pretty good as well.

As we know, you can DI out of this attack, but it wont happen every time, atleast. I played someone who tended to DI the multi hits, but he couldnt pull it off much more than half of the time.

Up Smash- Zelda waves her hand back and forth over her head with magic trailing her hand - This is similar to her up tilt, but it hits twice as much. It mostly builds damage, but at high percents you should be able to kill off the top. The priority felt rather good too, but I did honestly prefer up tilt to this because the tilt doesnt leave you as open. Its definitely situational, the up smash was awesome when they are flying at you from above, it goes through alot of things, whereas up tilt isnt as effective in that respect.

Also, as we know, DI spam happy foes can make it out of this, but not always

Down Smash- Zelda performs a fast kick all around her -Probably still the fastest smash attack in the game. Damage is alright (I think around 10%) and the knockback is awesome when they are at higher percents. Overall, this is very useful for clearing someone away from you, not to mention a great way to get them off the stage once they break 100%.

Tilts -
Forward Tilt - Zelda waves her hand in front of her with the usual magicness - I played with this more, and like in melee, this is definitely a kill move. Its pretty quick which is nice, but I dont think that tilts are going to be as useful in brawl...so this move might not end up very popular

Up Tilt- Zelda waves her hand once over her head with magic trailing her fingers - This move is great. Its fast to come out and fairly fast to end and if you get hit by one hit the rest tend to follow. It will hold them in and then launch them. I am inclined to say this has less knockback than the smash, but I am not sure. Up Tilt is great to cover over yourself.

Down Tilt- Zelda performs a quick low kick - The down tilt isnt bad...its fast enough that it could be used multiple times at low %s (but a jab or tilt might break you out of it), and I was able to tilt to smash because of the low knockback. Overall, I would say you have better options if you are within down tilt range. (namely down smash)

Throws -
Forward Throw- Apparently this was a kill move in melee, but it isnt any longer. The trajectory on this and the back throw is kind of wierd, but that might just be some spammy DI from the person I was playing. Not kill worthy, but a throw is a throw.

Back Throw - This has a somewhat longer trajectory to it than the forward throw, but its not a kill move unfortunately.

Up Throw- Up throw had reasonable distance to it, but it was definitely not a kill move (not like Zelda needed more ways to kill off the top :p)

Down Throw- Down throw looks like it might be comboable like it once was, but as of now I have not managed to do it.



Dash Attack-
I started using Zelda's dash attack alot more to close distance between myself and more ranged based characters (read: wolf) and it seemed to work well. The knockback and damage is nice, and for some reason it has those stun frames you see on the foot. If that means there is a sweet spot, I dunno...but I really like this dash attack.

Jabs -
Zelda's jab is pretty quick, and actually has reasonable knockback to it, so...I approve. I need to incorporate it more into my style as it looks like a useful move. Also, the priority is pretty good to say the least.



My general strategy

The general idea here is that while everything Zelda does looks amazing on paper, alot of her kill moves are tougher to land than you think...but shes still incredible. Ill actually write something next time, chem work to do (always)
 

-spAzn-

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As I said a couple times in the other thread thanks a lot Metroid. This is very nice, looking forward to more info you throw our way.:)
 

Luthien

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Lovin' it! Thanks for all of the info! Keep up the good work.

About the throws: In Melee, back throw was superior to forward-throw in all aspects. I seem to remember you saying f-throw was her strongest throw for brawl. Could you check that please? That's about it.
 

RyokoYaksa

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Fsmash is indeed perfectly escapable on hit. More on that later, but trust me when I say that I am furious.

I'm also very critical of analytical errors. Of all of Zelda's moves, Usmash is only second in speed to Dsmash. This was observable just by watching matches of her. It is certainly not outspeeded by Utilt.
 

Luthien

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Fsmash is indeed perfectly escapable on hit. More on that later, but trust me when I say that I am furious.
So I read. I've tried to convince myself not to read youtube comments, but yours caught my eye...

Still, I'd rather have that Din's Fire and a mediocre F-smash than an unescapable F-smash and Melee's Din's Fire. Because of that move alone I am in love with Brawl.
 

RyokoYaksa

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Fsmash was my counter to people who liked to abuse the range on their grabs in the version of Melee where it could not be escaped on hit.

I'd rather have the Female Wireframe's (or Blue Alloy now I guess) than this garbage. At least hers consists of a single hit which I can count on to send them when I need it to. If NPC clones of Zelda don't have this problem, why should the real deal have said problem?
 

Drake3

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Fsmash is indeed perfectly escapable on hit. More on that later, but trust me when I say that I am furious.

I'm also very critical of analytical errors. Of all of Zelda's moves, Usmash is only second in speed to Dsmash. This was observable just by watching matches of her. It is certainly not outspeeded by Utilt.
He means they do the same thing, but USmash holds them far longer.
 

Ztarfish

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I agree with Ryoko, this multihit, DIable crap of a Fsmash really makes me angry.
Bah.
Does anyone know if it's the same for the Usmash? Or does that suck you in?
 

Luthien

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I agree with Ryoko, this multihit, DIable crap of a Fsmash really makes me angry.
Bah.
Does anyone know if it's the same for the Usmash? Or does that suck you in?
Pretty sure it's the same. Almost definitely. I can't recall anything off the top of my head, but I'm sure that if they haven't fixed f-smash, they probably haven't made u-smash inescapable either.
 

Metroid_01

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Indeed, I meant more that up smash stays out there longer, its less abusable if you mess up. They looked *to me* about the same speed with the tilt maybe slightly faster at best. The best I can do is make a note to check it out the next time I play.

I really have no idea if the up smash is the same. Nobody I played with DIed out of anything like that player did, but it is a logical assumption to make because many multi-hit attacks can be gotten out of. From the diddy video posted, it looked like the move was either dragging him, or he was DIing low to get out of the attack. The way they solved this issue with Samus (Her up B performs multi-hits and keeps all but the comps locked in by alternating the direction the attack sends them between up and down each hit) I can only hope its the same for Zelda.
 

Luthien

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Once again, I'd like to thank you for confirming our speculations in words. It's a lot clearer than many videos, because we generally don't know if (for example: down-tilt) the Zelda player just isn't timing the repeated action right (thoughtlessly tapping A as fast as you can isn't as good as actually timing it). So yeah, we appreciate your work.
 

Metroid_01

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Once again, I'd like to thank you for confirming our speculations in words. It's a lot clearer than many videos, because we generally don't know if (for example: down-tilt) the Zelda player just isn't timing the repeated action right (thoughtlessly tapping A as fast as you can isn't as good as actually timing it). So yeah, we appreciate your work.
Hehe....actually, I pretty much just thoughtlessly spam it >.>;. but it did work out when I did it, mostly because they didnt catch on to what was going to happen for a second. Regardless, its quick...and I do think you can switch between the tilt and smash quicker than many characters can respond.

If you guys want, I can throw in the basics of playing against characters I have dealt with so far...but I dont think half the strategy would hold up even in a months time.
 

Lingy

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Great summary, thanks for the updates :)

I have a question, does Zelda feel faster to you? Or relatively the same since Melee?
 

Metroid_01

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She actually felt kind of similar (relatively speaking - remember, brawl *is* slower than melee on the whole). Some attacks (mostly her B attacks minus the transform) were definitely quicker. Almost all of her moves were fast even back then, but they did not have the power they do now. I am going to say that the transition from Melee Zelda to Brawl Zelda will be a very pleasant one, and you shouldnt have much of a hard time trying to get timings down and such (except for her sweetspots, which have changed).
 

blink777

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Thanks Metroid, it's all been very insightful. Sad to hear that the back throw is no longer a kill move, and even more sad that neither the back nor forward throws appear to be useful for setups. Interested in the possible sweetspots for the dash attack.

Thanks again!
 

-spAzn-

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Thanks once again Metroid, as blink said it's sad to hear that Zelda's throws are weakened and can't use them to setup into another move. Though I guess it's not to bad since you said not many could do that anyways . It is very nice to know all this stuff before hand. :)

I have one question if you wouldn't mind answering, it's about her FS. Not sure if you messed around with it much but is it easy/hard to hit the target? Especially if you're VS one opponent and try to setup into it with a throw/Dsmash or something.
 

Metroid_01

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Once we started seriously 1v1ing to learn our characters I didnt try it out... but her Final Smash is uber broken. Its just about instantaneous, goes from you straight off the other side of the stage through all barriers and such and KILLS anything in its path. I havent seen anyone survive the FS on an open stage, and its way too easy to land because its so fast and cant be blocked by walls.
 

Lingy

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I wouldn't call hers broken, since you actually have to aim it.

Kirby's and Snake's on the other hand... lol.
 

-spAzn-

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Awesome, thanks Metroid for that FS info. Never knew it could go through walls and such at least I don't remember reading about it or seeing it. Now I know I have a worthy FS to kill my sister's Fox and his landmaster hehe. Anyways thanks again.
 

ThePunisher

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So how would you summarize her play style? I need to get down as much literature as I can before I finally get the game and can practice.
 

Zelda_Sheik

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Question: Does the Dair of Zelda is know as strong as Ganondorf's or Captain Falcon's Dair or it still weak?
 

Metroid_01

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I played a bit of melee Zelda after picking up brawl to see what she was like, and it actually kind of felt similar...similar but she has more options now all around.

Nothing could spike as nastily as Dorf's dair, but when sweetspotted its a fairly strong meteor. I cant give an exact comparison especially since all meteors in brawl send you down way too fast for this game and I just dont have enough experience with them...but its definitely up there with the rest of them when you land a sweetspot.
 

verditude

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Once we started seriously 1v1ing to learn our characters I didnt try it out... but her Final Smash is uber broken. Its just about instantaneous, goes from you straight off the other side of the stage through all barriers and such and KILLS anything in its path. I havent seen anyone survive the FS on an open stage, and its way too easy to land because its so fast and cant be blocked by walls.
It's not an auto KO, for instance, if the opponent is at 0%, it won't quite kill. Unlike Marth's, which is pretty much ****.
 

Kabyk-Greenmyst

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I got to play Brawl once or twice, and I used Zelda one of the times. She is definitely MUCH better. Actually, the only thing that really changed for her, is that her moves are faster and seem to connect to each other better. That's it, and that's all she needed anyway to be a really good character.

Zelda will get her time in the limelight finally. In fact, I wouldn't doubt seeing way more Zelda's than Sheik's, the idea behind them will be flipped.

Melee: "Picked Zelda?" *match starts* "Oh right, I forgot--Sheik."
Brawl: "Picked Zelda?" *match starts* "Darn, he didn't change to Sheik..."
 

Metroid_01

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Over the top? I don't actually use her dair like that, but I would guess its higher than most of her other kill moves. I dont sweetspot a dair very often (well, dont use), just because it doesn't feel like a practical choice in many situations because many characters have more advantages then disadvantages when their opponents are over them. I can try it in a few minutes...we just got the wii set up in the room (wireless too if anybody wants to play.) and I can actually try things- real time!

Also, today I played some online matches, and apparently one of them got recorded. Im not very happy with how it went, but its neato to have one online so ill link you guys anyway.


Edit: Alright, I updated the big post above again, but I now have an answer to your question as well. It doesnt look like down air sends them up at all when they are on the ground. Dont ask me why it was done that way, but it was. When a sweetspot lands, theres a little animation thats different from normal, and then they fall over.
 

Luthien

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Thanks again! I'm a tad dissapointed with what they've done to her Dair (if not sweetspotting sends them upwards, it may be more wise if said opponent is on the ground...), but I appreciate all of your work.

On a side note, I love how everyone's changed their avatar... I'm gonna need to actually read the names to see who posted now for a while. :laugh:
 

Lingy

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Thanks again! I'm a tad dissapointed with what they've done to her Dair (if not sweetspotting sends them upwards, it may be more wise if said opponent is on the ground...), but I appreciate all of your work.

On a side note, I love how everyone's changed their avatar... I'm gonna need to actually read the names to see who posted now for a while. :laugh:
You're disappointed? At least it has a sweetspot now, I think that's enough.
 

Ledger_Damayn

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You're disappointed? At least it has a sweetspot now, I think that's enough.
True enough. I think, outside of her Up and Side smashes, we got most everything we wanted from Zelda.

With her being more sweetspot based, it leaves room for a lot of skill and necessary spacing.

Is dashdancing still something that's able to be taken into account?
 

Luthien

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You're disappointed? At least it has a sweetspot now, I think that's enough.
Don't get me wrong, it's great for edgeguarding, and I love that. I just don't see what's so hard about making it like every other powerful dair and having it send the enemy high up when they're on the ground when it makes contact. I'm not all that sad, I just fail to see why they couldn't do that, especially if it's like that for every other character.

If it stuns them on the ground in a really cool way I'll totally love it, though.
 
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