Update 1.10 (Post your data now)

[Nu~]

This will be the thread for when the update drops either today or tommorow. Post your kill percentage data now!

Kill percentages and frame data:

To avoid placebo, I took note of KO %s for some of our main KO moves. Took down damage of each move too. I forgot to do throws, but that's not that big of a deal unless our grab has gotten better.

Does this patch kill replays? I forgot to note grab's total time duration, but I'm guessing its still bad.

All training mode, KOs are from center of omega Pac-land on Pac-Man himself, no DI.

Jab. 3,2,4
Ftilt 8
Dtilt 6
Utilt 7
Fsmash 16. KO 102(hit at 102)
Dsmash 13. KO 131-133(was finicky)
Usmash 17. KO 108
Nair 10
Fair 5
Dair 10
Bair 11. KO 155
Uair 10 KO 179
Cherry 4
Strawberry 6
Orange 8. KO 202
Apple 9. KO 135
Melon 12. KO 143
Galaxian 9
Bell 8
Key 15 KO 128-129
Side B dash start 10
Side B uncharged 6
Side B full charge 12. KO 115
Up B 7,8,10
Down b drop 9
Down B launch 13 KO 143

Full frame data:
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/PAC-MAN

Confirmed:

Buffs: Platform Hydrant Glitch is back in!

Big Fixes: Trap door, Trampoline Scarring, and Angry hydrant glitches are gone.

 

[Froggy]

Post the grab frames too.

 

[BSP]

Didn't I already do this for the last patch? If anything really noteworthy changes, the stuff I posted should be comparable.

 

[Nu~]

Didn't I already do this for the last patch? If anything really noteworthy changes, the stuff I posted should be comparable.

I just wanted to move it all into an easier to access space.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Pac-man had a couple of frame data changes in 1.0.8, but I have them documented for comparison later.

 

[Krysco]

Not exactly a 'frame data' or percent change but I haven't been able to scar through Mushroom Kingdom U Omega with the Trampoline. Trying Halberd atm.

Edit: Wasn't able to get it to work on Halberd either.

 

[Nu~]

Grab is still ****.

Nice one sakurai

 

[flashypirate]

The hydrant glitch is back - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTklL7qSjdw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Kaiyedy]

Grab is still ****.

Nice one sakurai

Nope, grab was buffed/fixed. You can now grab people who are standing right next to you.

 

[Nu~]

Nope, grab was buffed/fixed. You can now grab people who are standing right next to you.

You could do that before. Try dash grabbing Mario from close up. It will miss

 

[Kaiyedy]

Nah man, you could miss before if someone was too lose, that's gone. Tested.

 

[Froggy]

Nah man, you could miss before if someone was too lose, that's gone. Tested.

You mean to say that the dead zone up close is completely gone? That's fricken awesome if its true.

 

[Nu~]

Proof please

 

[Psi Sig]

By standing as close as you can the grab animation will push the character into pac's grab, dash grab will miss if you mis-space, I believe.

 

[Kaiyedy]

Can't find any, and don't have the equipment to get it... Just go into training mode and go right next to someone and grab em. It should be like kirby's or something similar. Only with tether grab.

 

[Nu~]

Dash grab still misses though

 

[Kaiyedy]

Really? I've had no problem with it ine the update... If it true, then that suks...

 

[NouveauRétro]

Uhhhhhh... Raw changes by Dantalion?
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/pacman.html
Weirder than other character pages I've seen. If you want to switch chars replace pacman in url with name of other character
(Japanese version for Pokemon and maybe some others with Japanese names I'm forgetting) EX-"lizardon" instead of charizard.

 

[Nu~]

Uhhhhhh... Raw changes by Dantalion?
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/pacman.html
Weirder than other character pages I've seen. If you want to switch chars replace pacman in url with name of other character
(Japanese version for Pokemon and maybe some others with Japanese names I'm forgetting) EX-"lizardon" instead of charizard.

Looks like only sound changes.

 

[NouveauRétro]

Looks like only sound changes.

That's what I feared
Better be cool sound changes, haven't gotten to play yet, too wrapped up in SGDQ.
Lol, what if they changed PAcman's run into wall/ground with side-B?

 

[Nu~]

So link and toon link get better grabs, villager, charizard, and Robin get better throws, Shiek and Rosa are essentially untouched, yet our grab is still abhorrent.

What is a sakurai

 

[Psi Sig]

Pac with a decent grab is what I dream of

 

[ZeoLightning]

Not only his grab but im gonna check if they fixed the floor wall miss. if they didnt its a sad day for pac mains

 

[ZeoLightning]

Ok so here's what i got from testing. Hydrant Platform is indeed back.
Alive hydrant (using hydrant IMMEDIATELY after jumping from ledge making its hitbox still active) removed,
Wall Tramp (using the trampoline after wall jumping to jump through the stage) Removed
and Floor Tramp (putting people through the floor with trampoline) removed.
he can also still u Turn

he can still hit the Floor wall miss and the grab has no changes from what im seeing. so pac only got 1 useful addition to this patch, which was the return of hydrant platform. ugh, WHY, if pac cant even have a Zair AT LEAST give him the best teether grab....

 

[TriTails]

Grab is still ****.

Nice one sakurai

Yo buddy. Pac-Man with an actual grab is broken as ****.

 

[Nu~]

Yo buddy. Pac-Man with an actual grab is broken as ****.

But why does our have to be the worst in the game?

Villager has stupid rapid shield pressure to deal with his shield problems, ZSS has a combo game out of this world, and both links have a grab buff.

I don't understand why our grab has to be astronomically worse than the rest. Our tools aren't that polarizing (outside of trampoline, but even then, it isn't that OP since the nerf)

 

[LanceStern]

Well on the bright side, our grab punishes rolls and spot dodges pretty hard

 

[TriTails]

But why does our have to be the worst in the game?

Villager has stupid rapid shield pressure to deal with his shield problems, ZSS has a combo game out of this world, and both links have a grab buff.

I don't understand why our grab has to be astronomically worse than the rest. Our tools aren't that polarizing (outside of trampoline, but even then, it isn't that OP since the nerf)

Why?

Trampoline beats just about every ground moves that aren't disjoints or projectiles.
Hydrant is an anti-juggle tool and can be launched creatively.
Bonus Fruit has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many mixups it's not even funny.

Pac's grab also beats grabs' sworn enemy, spotdodge. Your opponent won't be really sitting there with shield, really. Like you said, trampoline beats shields. Considering Pac's wide array of strategies, a bad grab should be justifiable.

 

[Nu~]

Why?

Trampoline beats just about every ground moves that aren't disjoints or projectiles.
Hydrant is an anti-juggle tool and can be launched creatively.
Bonus Fruit has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many mixups it's not even funny.

Pac's grab also beats grabs' sworn enemy, spotdodge. Your opponent won't be really sitting there with shield, really. Like you said, trampoline beats shields. Considering Pac's wide array of strategies, a bad grab should be justifiable.

I'm just feeling salty right now that the whole world has a better grab than Pac.

I do understand what you mean though. His tools are pretty crazy. Thanks

 

[Kaiyedy]

Why?

Trampoline beats just about every ground moves that aren't disjoints or projectiles.
Hydrant is an anti-juggle tool and can be launched creatively.
Bonus Fruit has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many mixups it's not even funny.

Pac's grab also beats grabs' sworn enemy, spotdodge. Your opponent won't be really sitting there with shield, really. Like you said, trampoline beats shields. Considering Pac's wide array of strategies, a bad grab should be justifiable.

You're acting like trampoline is the "holy grail" of moves for Pacman. To actually hit someone with it, you have to be right on top of them! And when it does hit, sure it can hit them away from you, but even then you're falling to the ground in freefall! I think that kinda cancels the hitting away, right? Plus, it doesn't even do that much damage!

 

[Nu~]

You're acting like trampoline is the "holy grail" of moves for Pacman. To actually hit someone with it, you have to be right on top of them! And when it does hit, sure it can hit them away from you, but even then you're falling to the ground in freefall! I think that kinda cancels the hitting away, right? Plus, it doesn't even do that much damage!

It's more of the fact that trampoline can pull everyone out of their shield. And falling to the ground doesn't "cancel out" hitting the opponent away. We reset the game to neutral. Who cares if it doesn't do that much damage when we can beat every defensive maneuver (spot dodge, roll, shield, jump)

And a trampoline on the ground is still amazing

 

[HakujouOokami]

It's more of the fact that trampoline can pull everyone out of their shield. And falling to the ground doesn't "cancel out" hitting the opponent away. We reset the game to neutral. Who cares if it doesn't do that much damage when we can beat every defensive maneuver (spot dodge, roll, shield, jump)

And a trampoline on the ground is still amazing

Absolutely true and I utilize it in a lot of my match ups because as a player, I'm quick to seeing when they are forced to jump into the air instead of being forced by the Trampoline. They want to have the freedom to do as they wish and just like Pac9 said, we reset the game to neutral and Neutral is usually where Pac shines because he now has the freedom to do as he wishes. I usually play an aggressive Pac to say the least. From FG to locals, it's always the same albeit high percents will always make us play safe.

Unfortunately, his grab is terrible on all things non-punishing. If a player throws it out, it's like bending over to get kick in the bum. One thing I've learned to help the punish game of his grab is to just throw out a Galaga ship and if they shield it, grab 'em. Or at least, how I go for my aggressive playstyle. It tends to work out much more than often but when they play safe, I tend to not be so trigger happy with the throw.

 

[ZeoLightning]

Why?

Trampoline beats just about every ground moves that aren't disjoints or projectiles.
Hydrant is an anti-juggle tool and can be launched creatively.
Bonus Fruit has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many mixups it's not even funny.

Pac's grab also beats grabs' sworn enemy, spotdodge. Your opponent won't be really sitting there with shield, really. Like you said, trampoline beats shields. Considering Pac's wide array of strategies, a bad grab should be justifiable.

Unless you commit to trampline your opponent can shield most of pac man options, making him struggle for kills. and the worst part is pac's grabs arent even that beneficial. they have alot of risk for veyr minimal reward. having a good grab is VERY vital in the current meta of the neutral. so having the worst grab in the game sucks for us mains. it almost eliminates any strategy around grabs.

and while tramp does force out of shield, it resets the neutral, but that isnt as punishing on shield as other character options by just having a normal grab. its also more of a defensive option to relieve pressure, as pac isnt relying too much on stop shields with it can easily be punished. pac has great mix up and anti juggle tools, but most of the time he has to play defensive in the neutral due to how good shielding is as an option and his lack of approach options. and if there were more benefits for going for such a laggy grab i might be more inclined to accept that its terrible. more strategies doesnt mean his grab should suck.

 

[AK_Paradox]

I notice a lot of PAC-MAN players in tournament mode.
Glad to see PAC is getting some recognition lately.
#ThePACisBack

 

[xzx]

I feel like it seems that people forget that when PAC-MAN trampolines, PAC-MAN enters helpless while the opponent doesn't. This means that if people actually just start to learn how to punish PAC-MAN after this, some of you may (hopefully) quit thinking it is an unbeatable super safe move with the opponent having zero options for punishing it. For example: Let's say someone is shielding and you trampoline them and then you are moving as much to the right/left as possible, wanting not to get punished. Since the opponent doesn't enter helpless and can start moving almost immediately (after the bounce), don't you think, if the opponent knows how to punish it (because they should know how to do it!) and their character actually can punish it, they will just follow after PAC-MAN and somehow read the situation? I definitely think that characters like Fox, Captain Falcon and Sheik can punish PAC-MAN in that situation! I know, it may not be easy, but I don't think it's impossible.

To the actual topic of this thread: It seems like they "reverted" the mechanics of the Hydrant and Trampoline so it now works how it worked in the previous patch. Interesting. Maybe his glitches and bugs takes so much time of his "balancing time" that they simply don't have time to look at his other moves? Nah, I don't think so. PAC-MAN having at least a bad (atrocious<terrible<bad<okay) grab is all I crave at this moment, among other things.

 

[Tornado]

Oh Pacman didn't get any buffs once again? I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo shocked

 

[Bauske]

What visual and audio changes did Pac-Man get? Does anyone know?

 

[Tornado]

I just played my first round of "tournament" in For Glory so here's some notes on Pac vs. Opponent

vs. Kirby:
Kirby appears to have super armor throughout a charge of his side+b hammer. None of my fruits were able to knock him out of the charge which scared the hell out of me so I ran away from it not knowing what to do.

vs. Yoshi:
It appears that there is virtually no ending lag through most of Yoshi's moveset and usually when you can just nair to break out of a combo against him, that appeared a lot more difficult to do and his armor seems to have been buffed a bit as well.

The yoshi one isn't anything that has numbers to back it up, just "it looks like...". But the Kirby one is quite scary.

 

[Nu~]

I feel like it seems that people forget that when PAC-MAN trampolines, PAC-MAN enters helpless while the opponent doesn't. This means that if people actually just start to learn how to punish PAC-MAN after this, some of you may (hopefully) quit thinking it is an unbeatable super safe move with the opponent having zero options for punishing it. For example: Let's say someone is shielding and you trampoline them and then you are moving as much to the right/left as possible, wanting not to get punished. Since the opponent doesn't enter helpless and can start moving almost immediately (after the bounce), don't you think, if the opponent knows how to punish it (because they should know how to do it!) and their character actually can punish it, they will just follow after PAC-MAN and somehow read the situation? I definitely think that characters like Fox, Captain Falcon and Sheik can punish PAC-MAN in that situation! I know, it may not be easy, but I don't think it's impossible.

To the actual topic of this thread: It seems like they "reverted" the mechanics of the Hydrant and Trampoline so it now works how it worked in the previous patch. Interesting. Maybe his glitches and bugs takes so much time of his "balancing time" that they simply don't have time to look at his other moves? Nah, I don't think so. PAC-MAN having at least a bad (atrocious<terrible<bad<okay) grab is all I crave at this moment, among other things.

Except for the fact that you can only be punished on hit a low percentages

 

[Nu~]

Pac-man had a couple of frame data changes in 1.0.8, but I have them documented for comparison later.

So what were those changes?