Update 1.10 (Post your data now)

[Tornado]

Hey can we get back to the track of what this topic is about? The 1.1.0 updates and not talking about the moveset we already have and matchups?

 

[Nu~]

What updates are there left?

 

[BSP]

Rant time!

The devs are starting to get on my nerves now. Up to this point, we've been nerfed like a top tier character, yet Pac-Man has never demonstrated top tier dominance in tournaments and has, IMO, the most exploitable playstyle since all of his main tools can be used against him. Are there loads of Pac-Man players curb stomping people on For Glory or something? What's with the big nerfs and tiny buffs?

We've received 1 MU specific buff, 1 minor buff, 1 minor nerf, and 4 critical nerfs over the course of patch history. I think that's comparable to Sonic, someone who was actually a consistent threat in high level tourneys.

Our grab remains atrocious while every other bad grab (except Yoshi, who hits like a truck anyway) has gotten buffs. Even Lucas, who hasn't been out for 2 months, got a grab buff while we retain dead zones and a deceiving beam range.

With all the buffs the swordsmen are receiving, I expect our MUs with them to get worse quickly. They already have massive, disjointed range over us, and now they're getting less landing lag + better throws.

At this rate, we're in for a tough ride. Maybe as people get better against Pac-Man and realize counterplay to all of his specials, they'll give us some love.

Why?

Trampoline beats just about every ground moves that aren't disjoints or projectiles.
Hydrant is an anti-juggle tool and can be launched creatively.
Bonus Fruit has SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many mixups it's not even funny.

Pac's grab also beats grabs' sworn enemy, spotdodge. Your opponent won't be really sitting there with shield, really. Like you said, trampoline beats shields. Considering Pac's wide array of strategies, a bad grab should be justifiable.

I used to think Pac-Man would be broken with a normal grab, but I've retracted that to just "really good". His first version may have been broken with a normal grab, but not this one.

Trampoline is amazing in general, but for shield busting purposes, it is still far inferior to normal grab. It only works at point blank (which good players will react to pac man running up), never sets up an edgeguarding situation (big because shielding vs Pac at high %? You'll take 7%, but you won't die), does 7%, and KO's at ~200%.

Hydrant as anti juggle is ok. I admit that it does massive work in specific MUs, but in most it's a fairly predictable mixup. The creative launches don't matter when you understand how the character works. When our opponents get smart and realize hydrant's weaknesses, we'll struggle to make it work too.

Fruit has mixups, but they are all easily out-prioritized and caught to be used against us. If you pay attention to the sound cues and keep in mind what Pac-Man has on him, they're not that great. Again, all easy to clank with, catch, and shielding any of them except Key gives the opponent our fruit to use against us.

I've said all of this before, but the built in counterplay to his specials + his awful grab is too much. Trust me, once people learn the character, he's going to struggle at high level because there's too much counterplay built in.

Oh, and his grab is iffy vs spotdodge. It only beats spotdodge if the opponent dodges in the beam range before the beam comes out. Once people understand this, they'll either roll or hit Pac-Man before the beam nabs them.

 

[Nu~]

@ BSP

What buffs would you want to see? Just the grab, or more

 

[Tornado]

@ BSP

What buffs would you want to see? Just the grab, or more

He just needs neutral offensive buffs. He's one of the few characters that doesn't have a reliable air kill move so damage/knockback buffs on his bair and nair would be GREATLY helpful.

 

[BSP]

@ BSP

What buffs would you want to see? Just the grab, or more

There's a few routes they can take IMO

1. Buff the grab, everything else the same.

Add grab boxes to Pac-Man's arm before the beam starts, but they go dead once the beam starts. If possible, have no down time between the grab box on Pac-Man's arm + hand going dead and the grab box from the beam beginning. The grab boxes on the beam don't die until the beam reaches maximum length. Reduce the beam animation to match actual grab length. No changes to total # of frames.

Or....

2. Keep the grab the same, but buff specific specials to compensate.

Revert trampoline back to the version where opponent's jump heights scaled with the trampoline's color. This increases Pac-Man's zoning strength without hurting his setups (they hit a trampoline, more time for us to charge, chase them down, or set up a trap), along with ensuring that trampoline is safe on hit at low %. Balancing factor is that opponents can still avoid the thing like normal, and the later bounces still hurt Pac-Man more than the opponent.

Revert galaxian back to 11%. This should make it a bit harder to out-prioritize, and the great reward (still at pretty specific % ranges, mind you) is balanced by the fact that it's still easily caught, outprioritized, and can be used against us.

+1% to Bonus Melon to compensate for its slow speed. If you watched abadango vs MVD at EVO, that was a clear showcase as to why Abadango doesn't use Melon much and why the risk / reward for that fruit is too skewed to risk. With a damage increase, it'll actually hit like the tank it's supposed to be and instant launch hydrant once again, giving Pac-Man more reason to use the move outside of specific MUs. This damage boost is still balanced by the fact that Melon is slow as crap, still pretty easy to clank with + catch, it can still be used against us, and abusing a 13% Melon for instant launches = locked into Melon.

Or.....

3. revert hydrant back to 12% health, more KBG on Bthrow and Uthrow.

I'd rather #1 or #2, but I'd take hydrant health back at 12% if those couldn't happen for some reason. The 1% increase made it easier for us to do setups at the cost of having a higher chance to lose control of our zoning tool to our opponent before we can make use of it. The instant launch with Fresh Bair and Melon is still balanced by the fact that our Bair must be fresh, Melon is still Melon, it's harder for us to use the hydrant for setups, and the 12% still goes both ways. As a zoner, this would give us much better midrange pressure at the cost of easy setups. The KBG increase on Bthrow and Uthrow would help the risk : reward of grab a bit, but still keep it quite risky.

 

[NimbusSpark]

I used to think Pac-Man would be broken with a normal grab, but I've retracted that to just "really good". His first version may have been broken with a normal grab, but not this one.

Trampoline is amazing in general, but for shield busting purposes, it is still far inferior to normal grab. It only works at point blank (which good players will react to pac man running up), never sets up an edgeguarding situation (big because shielding vs Pac at high %? You'll take 7%, but you won't die), does 7%, and KO's at ~200%.

Oh, and his grab is iffy vs spotdodge. It only beats spotdodge if the opponent dodges in the beam range before the beam comes out. Once people understand this, they'll either roll or hit Pac-Man before the beam nabs them.

I'd have to agree with this. As amazing it must be for our overall game if our terrible grab was buffed, remember that Pac-Man's reward in terms of actually landing the grab itself isn't that huge when compared to a decent amount of the cast, outside of a pretty good pummel in later percentages. Whilst he can F-Throw to Key, do D-Throw combos with Dash Attack and things like that, we simply lack the insane combo abilities say... Mario or Falcon have, nor a fairly powerful killing throw, which both Ness and Mewtwo notably have.

Trampoline, yes, is a good tool. It literally does something literally not any other characters can't do - beat out both rolls and shields. That alone is amazing, considering that's it's meant to be a recovery.

And yes, against spotdodge, Pac's grab is probably the best grab at actually beat it out, although it still is noticed how inconsistent the grab frames in comparison to the animation for me to actually call it useful. Sakurai really needs to fix up this, not our glitches.

 

[ZeoLightning]

@ BSP

What buffs would you want to see? Just the grab, or more

I left this as a comment on ZeRo's video about who he wants buff'd

"I WANT PACMAN's GRAB to have have grab box at point blank range, before the galaga beam comes out so its possible to grab people before that, and one for when the galaga beam is retracting. i also want him to not die if he side B's the ledge from slightly the wrong angle, because when you dont do it from underneath you bounce off the wall and you cant survive unless you have a jump"

for that matter, if they arent going to buff the grab, then buff its rewards, for going such an unsafe option you can rarely optimize your punishes from using it, the most you can follow up from is down throw. and his kill throw doesnt kill to about like 120 from the ledge with rage. its not just his grab but his throws arent that good either.

 

[ZeoLightning]

I'd have to agree with this. As amazing it must be for our overall game if our terrible grab was buffed, remember that Pac-Man's reward in terms of actually landing the grab itself isn't that huge when compared to a decent amount of the cast, outside of a pretty good pummel in later percentages. Whilst he can F-Throw to Key, do D-Throw combos with Dash Attack and things like that, we simply lack the insane combo abilities say... Mario or Falcon have, nor a fairly powerful killing throw, which both Ness and Mewtwo notably have.

Trampoline, yes, is a good tool. It literally does something literally not any other characters can't do - beat out both rolls and shields. That alone is amazing, considering that's it's meant to be a recovery.

And yes, against spotdodge, Pac's grab is probably the best grab at actually beat it out, although it still is noticed how inconsistent the grab frames in comparison to the animation for me to actually call it useful. Sakurai really needs to fix up this, not our glitches.

I agree, I'd like the range to be completely fixed and adding a grab box to the beam retracting ESPECIALLY since the galaga item can catch people with its retracting beam. right now, if he were to fix the Grab issues, Floor Wall miss and gave us better throws. pac man would be fine (i secretly wish his down air would spike but im fine without it doing that)

 

[Revibe]

Not going to lie guys, I wanted Pac-Mans Trampoline Fixed with something like this:
3rd Bounce as strong as a smash attack, or always let's pac-man bounce up with dodge frames instead of attacking, or even I get to choose the heigth of the bounce by how long I hold B. I loved flatting people through floors, but I love Red Lining opponents even more.

 

[RamLee]

New sprites added for pacmans up taunt??

 

[Megamon]

I feel like it seems that people forget that when PAC-MAN trampolines, PAC-MAN enters helpless while the opponent doesn't. This means that if people actually just start to learn how to punish PAC-MAN after this, some of you may (hopefully) quit thinking it is an unbeatable super safe move with the opponent having zero options for punishing it. For example: Let's say someone is shielding and you trampoline them and then you are moving as much to the right/left as possible, wanting not to get punished. Since the opponent doesn't enter helpless and can start moving almost immediately (after the bounce), don't you think, if the opponent knows how to punish it (because they should know how to do it!) and their character actually can punish it, they will just follow after PAC-MAN and somehow read the situation? I definitely think that characters like Fox, Captain Falcon and Sheik can punish PAC-MAN in that situation! I know, it may not be easy, but I don't think it's impossible.

To the actual topic of this thread: It seems like they "reverted" the mechanics of the Hydrant and Trampoline so it now works how it worked in the previous patch. Interesting. Maybe his glitches and bugs takes so much time of his "balancing time" that they simply don't have time to look at his other moves? Nah, I don't think so. PAC-MAN having at least a bad (atrocious<terrible<bad<okay) grab is all I crave at this moment, among other things.

Against Sonic and Sheik his trampoline is a tad bit unsafe, but I've done it numerous times w/o getting heavily punished, especially if I hit them with it. I'm not spending the whole game making sure a tramp is out, but I'm substituting it for grab/jab when they get real close (which is how you beat Pac-Man), and it works splendidly since they can't really dodge it. Definitely one of his top tools, because even if they can punish you for it, it's minimal (at least from what I've experienced). Throw a melon on top of the tramp and you have another kill option, which is exactly what Pac-Man needs. Definitely worth the punishment tbh.

 

[Megamon]

New sprites added for pacmans up taunt??

I thought so too. Need confirmation. Maybe I just don't taunt enough.

 

[Joecreak]

I noticed there is a slight Hurtbox change for pac-man's grab with this patch.

I checked it out on the older version on 3DS and it is 100% confirmed.

So in the old patch when pac-man does a grab his hand will point at the enemy and with 1.1.0 his hand will point at the sky instead to the enemy.
This makes his hurtbox a little bit smaller and swordfighter(like marth) cant't punish with an fsmash anymore when he misses the grab.

 

[Zage]

I noticed there is a slight Hurtbox change for pac-man's grab with this patch.

I checked it out on the older version on 3DS and it is 100% confirmed.

So in the old patch when pac-man does a grab his hand will point at the enemy and with 1.1.0 his hand will point at the sky instead to the enemy.
This makes his hurtbox a little bit smaller and swordfighter(like marth) cant't punish with an fsmash anymore when he misses the grab.

It's always been like that. The 3DS version has had a different/faster grab since the Wiiu version for some reason.

So what were those changes?

Up/Down Angled F-tilt had 4 frames of start up, being 1 frame faster than a neutral F-tilt. Hopefully there's more we're not aware of?

At this rate, we're in for a tough ride. Maybe as people get better against Pac-Man and realize counterplay to all of his specials, they'll give us some love.

The nerfs continue.

According to the Reddit's change list. https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/

Trampoline's 5% hit happens 1 frame later. Weird change considering the 5% hit doesn't happen until the apex of the jump (frame 11-14 now, rather than 10-14). On paper its a nerf, but it shouldn't affect pacmains too much I guess?

If anyone is able to verify this though, just incase. I'm not able to make sense of it.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/128-to-144/pacman_trampoline

Trampoline changes

0x3f800000, 0x1, 0x1,
0x3f800000, 0x0, 0x0,


Damage=5.000000, Angle=0x10e, BKB=0x50, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x3c, Size=6.000000, X=0.000000, Y=0.000000, 0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0.800000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x2, 0x1, 0x2, 0x0, 0x9, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)

Damage=0.000000, Angle=0x10e, BKB=0x64, WKB?=0x64, KBG=0x0, Size=6.000000, X=0.000000, Y=0.000000, 0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x9, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0)​

 

[Froggy]

It's always been like that. The 3DS version has had a different/faster grab since the Wiiu version for some reason.

The very first time I ever played the Wii U version I thought that was the case but when I asked about it everyone told me it wasn't a thing so I assumed it was my mind playing tricks on me.

 

[Zage]

The very first time I ever played the Wii U version I thought that was the case but when I asked about it everyone told me it wasn't a thing so I assumed it was my mind playing tricks on me.

Nah its definitely the case, Pacman continues to be the weirdest character on the roster. Its like they paid no attention to detail with him :\

Video/Gif comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrPf_nx8sbY

I really hope they update this soon, every patch there are claims that his grab is faster, but they're testing it on the 3DS version lol.

 

[Bayke-Man]

Rant time!

The devs are starting to get on my nerves now. Up to this point, we've been nerfed like a top tier character, yet Pac-Man has never demonstrated top tier dominance in tournaments and has, IMO, the most exploitable playstyle since all of his main tools can be used against him. Are there loads of Pac-Man players curb stomping people on For Glory or something? What's with the big nerfs and tiny buffs?

We've received 1 MU specific buff, 1 minor buff, 1 minor nerf, and 4 critical nerfs over the course of patch history. I think that's comparable to Sonic, someone who was actually a consistent threat in high level tourneys.

Our grab remains atrocious while every other bad grab (except Yoshi, who hits like a truck anyway) has gotten buffs. Even Lucas, who hasn't been out for 2 months, got a grab buff while we retain dead zones and a deceiving beam range.

With all the buffs the swordsmen are receiving, I expect our MUs with them to get worse quickly. They already have massive, disjointed range over us, and now they're getting less landing lag + better throws.

At this rate, we're in for a tough ride. Maybe as people get better against Pac-Man and realize counterplay to all of his specials, they'll give us some love.

I am confused, all you seem to be doing is complaining about the fact Pac-man has been nerfed, and what buffs would make him better. Why not instead deal with the nerfs and play to the characters strengths. And if you can't deal with how the character is then why play him at all??

 

[BSP]

I am confused, all you seem to be doing is complaining about the fact Pac-man has been nerfed, and what buffs would make him better. Why not instead deal with the nerfs and play to the characters strengths. And if you can't deal with how the character is then why play him at all??

I'm complaining because I can, simple as that. It's pretty frustrating to see the character you put significant amounts of effort into get nerfed without compensation before he presents himself as a consistent threat. I discuss my ideas on what would make him better for the same reason: I just feel like discussing it.

I've been dealing with the nerfs since they've happened. Most of them happened early on, but I still play the character.

I play to his strengths, but the devs keep nerfing that strength without proper compensation. Pac-Man is a zoning character, but his zoning tools continue to be nerfed. It doesn't make much sense, especially when he's not a dominating character in the slightest.

Just to reiterate, buffs:

• Villager can't pocket trampoline. Big, but only affects 1 MU.
• Pellet heals for 2% instead of 1%. Slightly affects Rosalina MU, otherwise it's a very slight bonus
• Pac-Jump medium strength hit lasts a frame longer. Very slight buff.

Nerfs

• Nerfed galaxian, which I assume made it easier to clank with and nerfed damage output of a projectile that takes around 2 seconds to charge to, is easy to clank with or catch, and can be used against us.
• Trampoline bounce height for opponents. Lowered, directly hurting our zoning game for no reason.
• Hydrant HP increase makes impossible to instant launch unless we already have fruit in hand (locking us into it) or have a Key charged, thereby making easier for opponents to take control over. This one significantly nerfed Melon utility and directly hurt our zoning game. I'll admit, it makes setups easier, but I would've rather kept the instant launch option (only with a fresh Bair, mind you) and gotten used to using Uair for a setup hit.
• Ftilt frame data nerf
• Hydrant acting like a ledge when we run off does absolutely nothing except make it harder to do setups.
• Usmash ending lag increased significantly. This one was justified, but still.

All buffs have been very minor while every nerf has critically afffected our zoning game or KO potential/safety. Meanwhile Sheik can carry you offstage for free with loads of safety and ZSS has true combos into a flexible spike that KO's at relatively low %, and they're virtually untouched.

[COLLAPSE=Compared to a good character like Sonic...]

Buffs:

Dair IASA allowing him to use it from ledge height and not SD (bigger than any buff we've got lol)

Nerfs:

Spin dash damage
Bthrow knockback
Usmash KBG
Fsmash KBG

Like I said, our nerfs are comparable to a character that has actually been a consistent top 5 national/international threat from day 1.

[/COLLAPSE]

If this trend continues, I may drop him. It's becoming less and less worth the effort as everyone around him gets buffed, but most of their moveset can't be used against them. I want Pac-Man to do well competitively because I think most of the community sleeps on him, but it's hard to do that when the devs nerf your main strength while buffing everyone else. Again, all of our specials have counterplay and can be just as deadly to us as our opponents. Yet our grab remains god awful and our specials receive nerfs.

I
The nerfs continue.

According to the Reddit's change list. https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3f8hvn/the_v110_patch_changelist/

Trampoline's 5% hit happens 1 frame later. Weird change considering the 5% hit doesn't happen until the apex of the jump (frame 11-14 now, rather than 10-14). On paper its a nerf, but it shouldn't affect pacmains too much I guess?

If anyone is able to verify this though, just incase. I'm not able to make sense of it.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/mastercore3/diff/128-to-144/pacman_trampoline

Trampoline changes

0x3f800000, 0x1, 0x1,
0x3f800000, 0x0, 0x0,


Damage=5.000000, Angle=0x10e, BKB=0x50, WKB?=0x0, KBG=0x3c, Size=6.000000, X=0.000000, Y=0.000000, 0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0.800000, 1.000000, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0, 0x2, 0x1, 0x2, 0x0, 0x9, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)

Damage=0.000000, Angle=0x10e, BKB=0x64, WKB?=0x64, KBG=0x0, Size=6.000000, X=0.000000, Y=0.000000, 0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0x9, 0x3f, 0x0, 0xf, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x1, 0x0, 0x1, 0x1, 0x0)​

If I'm understanding this correctly, it's a (small...) buff. If the 5% hitbox happens later, I'm assuming the second strongest hitbox lasts for a frame longer, making it have more of a chance of connecting.

 

[Zage]

If I'm understanding this correctly, it's a (small...) buff. If the 5% hitbox happens later, I'm assuming the second strongest hitbox lasts for a frame longer, making it have more of a chance of connecting.

If thats the case then I really can't understand the reasoning behind such a arbitrary buff.

BSP is right though, Pac-man has received nerfs on almost every patch and barely any buffs to compensate. With the biggest being the angled F-tilt frame changes and the Hydrant now being considered an un-grabbable ledge. The latter being significant only because for about 3 or so frames (don't quote me on the actual amount) of running off a ledge, all actions will cause you to immediately double jump instead of whatever you intended. So things like running off and immediately B-airing/U-airing the hydrant require stricter timing than before.

On the flip side, characters who were sub-par before are getting the buffs and changes they deserve, meanwhile, we still have some pretty dumb gameplay affecting glitches are only receiving pointless nerfs.

Its safe to say that if you've been a solo Pac main up until this point, your character loyalty will definitely be tested unless we get some much needed bug fixes/buffs.

 

[Froggy]

I am confused, all you seem to be doing is complaining about the fact Pac-man has been nerfed, and what buffs would make him better. Why not instead deal with the nerfs and play to the characters strengths. And if you can't deal with how the character is then why play him at all??

Quit bieng an idiot.

A lot of who arne't tier whores concerned just about winning, and remaining a tier to player; play this game for fun and for a lot of us this game is only fun competitvely while playing a few characters. Therefore if the only character you want to main is nerfed, it's not as easy as swithcing to a new character, you are very understandibly going to be upset that your chances of success have been dimibishied from what @ BSP was explaining appears to be avery unjust and baseless decision.

Furthurmore a lot of people are gifted at certainl styles of play which obviously not all characters lend themselves to, for Pacman who could quite easily be argued fas the most unique character, this concept applies even more so.

 

[BSP]

BSP is right though, Pac-man has received nerfs on almost every patch and barely any buffs to compensate. With the biggest being the angled F-tilt frame changes and the Hydrant now being considered an un-grabbable ledge. The latter being significant only because for about 3 or so frames (don't quote me on the actual amount) of running off a ledge, all actions will cause you to immediately double jump instead of whatever you intended. So things like running off and immediately B-airing/U-airing the hydrant require stricter timing than before.

And those 3 or so frames can very well cost you the entire match with a character as setup heavy and precise as Pac-Man. It's frustrating.

 

[Froggy]

And those 3 or so frames can very well cost you the entire match with a character as setup heavy and precise as Pac-Man. It's frustrating.

While I disagree with every nerf Pacman has recieved so far I think the reason Pacman has been getting nerfed is partially because of Abadango's performance on the big stage.

As well as the fact that Pacman is such a unique characters that has mechanices which are unique to him. If overlooked and then abused by players it's veery easy for such things to become broken, I think nintedo is taking the better safe than sorry approach to this.

 

[Revibe]

I hope Pac-Man gets more super armor for his side-b.
I also wish that he had like an auto grab feature, but only when he is moving around in his 2D form. So it's like you can side-b and up-b into a fruit, he looks like he eats it, and you have it to throw again. I would rather the pick-up of fruits go back into his move-set, so he doesn't drop a precious charge when vulnerable, which also means you would have to hit B again to summon the Bonus Fruit, but it remains as the charge you collected it.

Pac-Man also doesn't have a lot of multi-striking moves, but it would be great if they can modify, AT LEAST, the cherry so that it could bounce and strike up to 3 times.

@ Zage did you say the Hydrant cancels ledge grabs now? because I would take nerfs if I could cancel any ledge to go play with my trampoline!

What do people think if they added Pellet Canceling?

***Edit/Update***
Hey guys, I think Pac-Man's Hydrant respawns for command faster. I mean, I think you can use down-b to summon a hydrant again as soon as the other one is not seen but the clouds are still up. I.d.k.

 

[Zage]

@ Zage did you say the Hydrant cancels ledge grabs now? because I would take nerfs if I could cancel any ledge to go play with my trampoline!

That isn't what I said at all lol.

 

[Megamon]

I hope Pac-Man gets more super armor for his side-b.
I also wish that he had like an auto grab feature, but only when he is moving around in his 2D form. So it's like you can side-b and up-b into a fruit, he looks like he eats it, and you have it to throw again. I would rather the pick-up of fruits go back into his move-set, so he doesn't drop a precious charge when vulnerable, which also means you would have to hit B again to summon the Bonus Fruit, but it remains as the charge you collected it.

Pac-Man also doesn't have a lot of multi-striking moves, but it would be great if they can modify, AT LEAST, the cherry so that it could bounce and strike up to 3 times.

@ Zage did you say the Hydrant cancels ledge grabs now? because I would take nerfs if I could cancel any ledge to go play with my trampoline!

What do people think if they added Pellet Canceling?

***Edit/Update***
Hey guys, I think Pac-Man's Hydrant respawns for command faster. I mean, I think you can use down-b to summon a hydrant again as soon as the other one is not seen but the clouds are still up. I.d.k.

I'd prefer his dair be like Yoshi's .

 

[Tornado]

Its safe to say that if you've been a solo Pac main up until this point, your character loyalty will definitely be tested unless we get some much needed bug fixes/buffs.

Really this...

After SuperSmashCon, since I'm not going to any events for a long while, I may try to invest in a second character because the feeling of anti-pacman exhibited by the devs has been absurd.

 

[Splebel]

I believe this info should go here. I've been lurking on these forums for a couple of months now and now I feel like I have stuff to contribute.

Not a change to Pacman but the new DLC stages they added are really weird when it comes to Pacman's hydrant launches. When he's on a flat platform in Hyrule castle it will always go in one direction no matter which way he's facing. It also changes depending on which platform he's one.

Peach's castle it's less noticeable because of the less flat spaces and that moving platform at the bottom doesn't have this glitch for some reason so hydrant shenanigans can work there.

This might not be a problem because these two stages might not be tourney legal (although I'm hoping Peach's castle will be) but these problems also occur on the omega forms too for both stages. Peach's castle's weird in this one because the carpet on the right side launches the hydrant right while the rest of the stage launches the hydrant left. So keep that in mind. Although on the upside it can really though people off.

Also I only have/play on a 3DS so this might not happen in the Wii U version but luckily/unluckily they tend to keep the versions consistent in terms of gameplay.