Up-Tilt, completly worthles or just mostly worthless?

[canswer]

Up-Tilt (I'm not sure what to call it) but i very rarely use this move, and probably 50% of the time i do the move by accident.


Does anyone use this move more then once every 10 rounds?


Does this move have some potential, edge guarding? I don't know?

 

[RabidClone]

I'd use it as an edgeguard. But not for racking up damage.

 

[ddonaldo]

dont use this move, there are much better ways to edgeguard.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

it sucks whoevers near the smoke closer to Ganon like DDD and Kirby's B move and it hits very hard. i think its one of the most highly situational moves in the game. sure there are better ways to edgeguard, but the option to use it is there. i doubt it could be very useful in high tourney play though. :/

 

[xxmaliciousxx]

Up-Tilt (I'm not sure what to call it) but i very rarely use this move, and probably 50% of the time i do the move by accident.


Does anyone use this move more then once every 10 rounds?


Does this move have some potential, edge guarding? I don't know?

Well, it's not something you would abuse like his Thunder Hop or his dash, but it's not something I would call worthless. Situational, yes, but effective at the right moment. Compared to his standard B move, the startup lags are very close, but the range of effect is greater with the UpTilt. I'm not sure about the damage and knockback.

It has it's uses as an edgeguard, and can be used when the opponent is paralyzed for some reason, whether it be an environment hazard, an item, or your team mate.

It's good to have a nice attack you can pull out of your sleeve once every ten games to penalize your opponents for messing up.

 

[Hyrus]

Neutral B kills Mario off the center of final destination, with DI, at around 30% and deals 32 damage. Up Tilt kills Mario off the center of final destination, with DI, at around 45% and deals 27 damage.

Both of these moves, essentially, do the same thing. Up Tilt has slightly more use, as people have highlighted, but Neutral B has a rather narrow hitbox and isn't going to be pulled off for any reason... unless you like getting punching bagged around in a 4 player free for all with all items on, where you "might" see an opportunity. Loss of control is the number one thing players hate in a video game... BUT i'm getting off topic.

Both are pretty useless, though. I'd love to ask Mr. Sakurai a few questions, among them, how he intended Ganon's Utilt and Neutral B to be used in standard play.

And yes, I use the move by mistake too. Maybe that's why its there... to cleverly disguise a random penalty system through a set of conditions to make it look like a usable attack! You gotta give the man credit where it's due.

 

[canswer]

Compared to his standard B move, the startup lags are very close, but the range of effect is greater with the UpTilt. I'm not sure about the damage and knockback.

Ummm...ok, ill give some numbers


Regular Ganon punch does 32% (I thought it did 35% if you sweet spot?)
Reverse Ganon Punch does 35% (not sure if it has a sweet spot)
Up-Tilt does 27%


From the middle of Final Destination against MK

Reverse Ganon Punch KOs at 16%
Standard Ganon Punch KOs at 22%
Up-Tilt KOs at 39%!!


From the edge of Final Destination against MK

Reverse Ganon Punch KOs at 3%
Standard Ganon Punch KOs at 9%
Up-Tilt KOs at 20%!!


I also did some things with a stop watch...
i tested several times and i think these numbers are close to correct

Ganon punch takes 1 - 1.1 seconds from start to the punch
Up-Tilt takes 1.4 - 1.5 seconds from start to the heel explosion


sooo long story short, Ganon punch is better then Up-Tilt in every way i can see.. Up-Tilt may have a slight advantage in range...


But I can't jump off something and do a double reverse Up-Tilt


sorry for long post i got carried away in training mode

 

[Atsu]

People easily misjudge UpTilt though. I've hit 'pros' with it a couple times because they misjudged the range. Seeing as how Ganon isn't a commonly used character, a lot of his attacks are underestimated. But yes, it is a very situational move. You can't just use it anywhere.

I also find that Warlock Punch has a lot more intimidation compared to UpTilt (As in people run away a little more instead of going straight in). It's just my personal experience though. But I would have to agree that it's something that I try to never do lol. In the end, I usually accidentally use it when I try to UpSmash (It rarely happens, but everyone makes mistakes ).

 

[Kitamerby]

Ummm...ok, ill give some numbers


Regular Ganon punch does 32% (I thought it did 35% if you sweet spot?)
Reverse Ganon Punch does 35% (not sure if it has a sweet spot)
Up-Tilt does 27%


From the middle of Final Destination against MK

Reverse Ganon Punch KOs at 16%
Standard Ganon Punch KOs at 22%
Up-Tilt KOs at 39%!!


From the edge of Final Destination against MK

Reverse Ganon Punch KOs at 3%
Standard Ganon Punch KOs at 9%
Up-Tilt KOs at 20%!!


I also did some things with a stop watch...
i tested several times and i think these numbers are close to correct

Ganon punch takes 1 - 1.1 seconds from start to the punch
Up-Tilt takes 1.4 - 1.5 seconds from start to the heel explosion


sooo long story short, Ganon punch is better then Up-Tilt in every way i can see.. Up-Tilt may have a slight advantage in range...


But I can't jump off something and do a double reverse Up-Tilt


sorry for long post i got carried away in training mode

Uptilt is more of a surprise factor, as people normally have a habit of not running away, like with the Murder Fist, but instead running in to beat it. Otherwise, they might accidentally shield instead. This leads to a shieldbreak! And we all know why you never want your shield broken by Ganon...

 

[theEffinBear]

sooo long story short, Ganon punch is better then Up-Tilt in every way i can see.. Up-Tilt may have a slight advantage in range...

U-tilt has a significant advantage in range: the hitbox starts a touch behind Ganon and extends just past the explosion; I think it goes downwards a bit too.

The range (both horizontal and vertical) and the wind effect are the two advantages that u-tilt has over the Murder Fist. The Murder Fist can be started midair, can be reversed, has less startup lag, and is more powerful.

/RtEB

 

[teh_pwns_the]

The thing that really sets the two apart is after the ganon punch you suffer some lag before you can do anything but with Utilt you can shield or start an attack directly afterwardswhich is why i think its better for edge guarding because if you miss you can at least get your shield up or hit with an unexpected spartan kick (Ftilt)

 

[canswer]

OK OK, But did you not all read the %'s at which you die from the two moves?

from the EDGE (like a edge guarding situation) Up-Tilt KOs at 20%, Reverse G punch 3%...

Yes the range is Slightly better (I wouldn't say significantly better), The wind... I'm fairly certain it has helped me get a kill MAYBE once. In the future we may find some usefulness for this aspect of the move but right now it does nothing for me.

OH, and full charged Elbow (F-smash) off the top of my head i think does 32% - 35%.

Up-Tilt FTL

 

[xxmaliciousxx]

Ummm...ok, ill give some numbers


Regular Ganon punch does 32% (I thought it did 35% if you sweet spot?)
Reverse Ganon Punch does 35% (not sure if it has a sweet spot)
Up-Tilt does 27%


From the middle of Final Destination against MK

Reverse Ganon Punch KOs at 16%
Standard Ganon Punch KOs at 22%
Up-Tilt KOs at 39%!!


From the edge of Final Destination against MK

Reverse Ganon Punch KOs at 3%
Standard Ganon Punch KOs at 9%
Up-Tilt KOs at 20%!!


I also did some things with a stop watch...
i tested several times and i think these numbers are close to correct

Ganon punch takes 1 - 1.1 seconds from start to the punch
Up-Tilt takes 1.4 - 1.5 seconds from start to the heel explosion


sooo long story short, Ganon punch is better then Up-Tilt in every way i can see.. Up-Tilt may have a slight advantage in range...


But I can't jump off something and do a double reverse Up-Tilt


sorry for long post i got carried away in training mode

Thank you.

 

[Griffard]

Only use if you're a great Ganon anyway and you're just mixing it up or confuzzling with some mindgames. so pretty much don't use

 

[Wolydarg]

I like using it, and since most of my opponents aren't vegetables, they either shield or avoid this. Playing against a ganondorf they always seem to associate laggy startup time to laggy ending time (see, murder fist). Right after the utilt lands they rush in to punish only to get sparta-kicked. Fun stuff.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Haha. Mine's faster

But really, my bro used to use it when a good item appeared. He would run over to it, start charging, and the item gets sucked towards Ganondorf's groin (pretty d*mn powerful balls he's got there). I actually fell for it, thinking that I had time to snag the item.

 

[Union of Darkness]

I talked about this in another thread, but Ganon's u-tilt is best used for edge guarding and should NEVER be used mid combat. The applications for it are pretty situational:

If spaced right the attack will hit them if they're not invincible while hanging on the edge. They don't take the full force of the explosion to my knowledge though.

If they happen to recover and land in front of you instead of grabbing the edge it's likely they'll be hit if the timing is right.

Best case scenario is that their shield breaks, which gives you a free Warlock Punch.

Again, these probably will never work on an actual competent player.

 

[theEffinBear]

There are at least two different hitboxes for the move: if your target is hit by the leg+explosion, it deals a single 27% damage hit, trajectory about 45° above horizontal; if they're only hit by the explosion, it deals 17% instead, with less knockback and an almost-vertical trajectory. (And there seems to be a very tiny intermediate range that deals 19%, same trajectory as the 17% hit.) All of the hits deal that amount of damage with a single hitbox. Scratch my previous statement about it extending behind G-dorf, though.

canswer: Make a stage with a floor of several small-size basic blocks, have your test dummy cling to the edge, and place G-dorf 2 blocks away (right over the transition from block 2 to 3), and start the u-tilt. If they're not invincible, they will take 17% damage and shoot upwards*. That's what I call "surprisingly good range", which the Murder Fist doesn't have -- it will whiff pretty badly in this scenario.

Union of Darkness: agreed. There's also the possibility that they do their ledge-jump to avoid a perfectly-timed u-tilt. Since the u-tilt has almost no ending lag, you're back at neutral with them above you and closer to the edge, which is a pretty good situation for Ganondorf to be in.

/RtEB