Up+B OoS

[Julz]

TL;DR version: It is beneficial to have "Tap Jump" on in your controller configurations as Samus. This makes your Screw attack come out of shield faster and enables you to escape multi-hit attacks.

I was lurking in the Marth forums one day and stumbled upon this:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=189612

Since Screw attack OoS is vital to Samus' gameplay I figured we should see if what was said in that thread is true for Samus.

I saw a lot of members posting in the Controller preferences thread about having their tap jump off (including myself). It'd still be a nice for players like myself to realize important facts like these but at the same time I apologize in advanced if this was already known.

I don't know about these invincibility frames but I think it might have something to do with the tap jump canceling your shield and at the same time activating your up+B (which would be faster than just turning your shield off and then doing an up+B).

Discuss or Debunk the usefulness tap jump provides for Samus. Any input is appreciated.

 

[I feel asleep]

Been using it since day 1.
Hell, even earlier. it was very good and very used in melee.

It is VERY useful against certain characters approaches. Wario's D-air is a good example. or Marths F-tilts.
as i'm sure lots of people here know, UP-B comes out incredibly fast, has great priority and she still has a few invincibility frames on startup.

Now, the biggest drawback with doing this is the downtime of falling back to the level. however, on some levels,(battlefield is best) you can negate most of the downtime by landing on the top-middle platform. hell, i annoyed the hell out of someone by just standing on the bottom of BF, UP-Bign to the top platform, dropping down and doing a D-air and repeating that. he wasn't very good...anyways back on topic.

Up-B OOS as Samus is an amazing option to have that only a few characters can match in quality/usefulness.

 

[Julz]

Oops, fixed the OP.

 

[GotACoolName]

Always left tap jump on, but it was because I didn't want to adjust how I SA'd out of shield. I didn't know about the invincibility frames. Cool.

 

[Little England]

I can DI out of it pretty early with Puff. Its ok

 

[Julz]

I was able to get out of a CPU Falco's multi hit Neutral A attack just today so I actually think Tap Jump may be required for Samus mainers.

 

[Little England]

thats pretty easy to do man

 

[Julz]

thats pretty easy to do man

Err, by using Screw Attack OoS not DI. DI is great and all but it doesn't punish him for using that move.

 

[Xyro77]

UP+B out of shield has beena round since ssb64. its a staple move for a samus player.

 

[Julz]

UP+B out of shield has beena round since ssb64. its a staple move for a samus player.

So do you think tap jump should be on or off for Samus player in brawl?

Tap jump is annoying but these "invincibility frames" would make it worth it.

 

[3xSwords]

Does Samus even have invincibility frames on her upB? I thought she just had high priority now....

somebody enlighten me.

 

[0RLY]

Samus has no invincibility frames in her Screw Attack. Marth's Dolphin Slash is one of the few b-ups that have invincibility frames. However, Samus has none. The priority is alright, it still clashes with things on start-up. Nevertheless, Screw Attack has amazing start-up speed and SHOULD be used by any and all Samus mainers.

 

[Julz]

what about tap jump? do you think it makes screw attack come out faster from the shield?

Steel2nd said something about the up+B starting 1 frame earlier with the shield being jump canceled as opposed to just letting go of the R button.

 

[0RLY]

Letting go of the R button makes your Screw Attack about 5-7 frames slower. Much better with Tap Jump.

 

[Jaigoda]

Wouldn't it produce the same results if you used X or Y and up+special immediately after? You could simply set either X or Y (whichever you don't use for jumping) to special, and just sort of roll your finger across the two.

I haven't tested this (I will in just a moment), but I think it should work.

 

[Kodachrome]

You'd still have a tiny window of opportunity to get hit, Jaigoda. Keep in mind that there are quite a few multi-hit attacks.

I still don't understand why people can't simply learn to use both y/x and the control stick. Makes no sense to me to choose one or the other, unless you want DAC with sheik and such. Just know when to use what. No sense hanging onto your precious button configurations when you can have the best of both worlds.

But now I'm off-topic.

 

[Julz]

Wouldn't it produce the same results if you used X or Y and up+special immediately after? You could simply set either X or Y (whichever you don't use for jumping) to special, and just sort of roll your finger across the two.

I haven't tested this (I will in just a moment), but I think it should work.

Why press two buttons when you can just press one? The amount of effort doesn't seem worth it.

 

[Jaigoda]

Why press two buttons when you can just press one? The amount of effort doesn't seem worth it.

Because, if it had worked, you'd be able to use Utilt and Uair faster (you don't have to slowly move the control stick up), and if I'm correct, they're both staples of Samus' game. Unfortunely, according to Kodachrome you still have a small amount of time where you can be hit (I tried testing but I fail at two controllers, not to mention I suck anyway). My main question is why jumping with X or Y instead of the control stick allows more time to be hit. Could someone explain this to me?

 

[Eten]

Tap jump doesn't need to be on for screw attack OoS. If you didn't know, It simply works like this. Letting go of shield = shield drop frames before you can act. You can roll, grab, spotdodge, or jump directly out of shield and skip the shield drop frames. You can upsmash and up-B during the starting frames of a jump before you leave the ground(put in probably so people had an easier time upsmashing and up-Bing instead of accidentally jumping when tap jump is on). Thus, you can jump with either tap jump, y or x, into up-B, effectively up-Bing directly out of shield. Tap jump makes it easy, but you can still do it if you jump first and then very quickly up-B before you leave the ground.

It just comes down to personal preference. For Samus, you really need to be able to up-B out of shield either way.

 

[Crystanium]

Screw Attack + OoS is nice. Your opponent is coming at you from the air and sees you put up your shield. Then all of a sudden, as your opponent tries to use his d-air, out comes that Screw Attack! When I am in Basic Brawl, and when we are on Battlefield, if I am standing under the person above me, I immediately use my Screw Attack to get in the first hit.

 

[Julz]

Because, if it had worked, you'd be able to use Utilt and Uair faster (you don't have to slowly move the control stick up), and if I'm correct, they're both staples of Samus' game. Unfortunely, according to Kodachrome you still have a small amount of time where you can be hit (I tried testing but I fail at two controllers, not to mention I suck anyway). My main question is why jumping with X or Y instead of the control stick allows more time to be hit. Could someone explain this to me?

I had to live with it in melee so it should be fine. Just think of it as an alternative way to jump other than X or Y. So Uair should be fine if not faster(you don't have to move your thumb from the X/Y button over to the A button). Utilt on the other hand isn't used that often anyway but when you do use it you should have enough time to set it up. The Utilt is kinda really slow.

 

[Jaigoda]

I had to live with it in melee so it should be fine. Just think of it as an alternative way to jump other than X or Y. So Uair should be fine if not faster(you don't have to move your thumb from the X/Y button over to the A button). Utilt on the other hand isn't used that often anyway but when you do use it you should have enough time to set it up. The Utilt is kinda really slow.

Just because you had to live with it doesn't mean it's the best option. With Uair, all you have to do is a sort of rolling motion (but less exaggerated) from Y to A, making it come out almost immediately. Also, with tap jump you risk losing your second jump.

So, according to Eten, there's not much difference besides personal preference (and maybe a few frames) between tap jump SA OoS and y+upB or Y+upX? That's all I was wondering. I just can't function with tap jump on anymore, so I was just looking for an alternative. I got what I was looking for, so thanks.

 

[0RLY]

Leaving tap jump on and using Screw Attack OoS this way is the fastest. You can use it on Marth in between hits of his Dancing Blade. Any other method, even though only a few frames slower may risk you getting hit.