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Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

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TheDuke54

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I might be the only one, but I wish we could see where our opponents are from. Sort of like how they showed us on Smash4. Not like the address, but the country. I just want to know if the lag is because someone is running their game off a potato or it's because we're so far away from each other. I liked that from Smash because if I got someone from Brazil who had terrible lag, I would block them to avoid matches that crawled to 5 minutes when the match is only 2.
 
D

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Even though as Sakurai stated.

Video Game characters only.
Because.

He said.

VIDEO. GAME. CHARACTERS. ONLY.
Time for another episode of "Sakurai Didn't Say That", starring PushDustIn.
...er, or me in this case.

While the consensus is that we're unlikely to get a character of non video game origin, Sakurai never actually said Smash was "video game characters only".

Anyone who unironically claims he did is lying through their teeth and/or uneducated on the matter.

What he did say back during Brawl's development in regards to guests are that manga characters are "impossible", which is his go-to statement for anything he can't/won't do.
There is no legitimate quote of him ever saying that Smash is "video game characters only".

And before you go into "but impossible means never happening"....
...he literally said the same thing about guests in general and Ridley. Then Brawl and Ultimate happened. Is he likely to change his mind in this particular case? Not really, because of how difficult it would be to GET someone like Goku in the game, not because of some hard-on for "only video game characters allowed" rule that was never actually stated.

But the reality is, he's changed his mind before on many things he's decided against in the past (including the "no realistic firearms allowed" policy as of now with Joker), so to argue that he'd NEVER change his mind on something just because you don't want it to happen is nothing short of being outright asinine.

I get you have a hate boner for Goku and his supporters, but calm yourself and get your facts straight before spouting off nonsense.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Time for another episode of "Sakurai Didn't Say That", starring PushDustIn.
...er, or me in this case.

While the consensus is that we're unlikely to get a character of non video game origin, Sakurai never actually said Smash was "video game characters only".

Anyone who unironically claims he did is lying through their teeth and/or uneducated on the matter.

What he did say back during Brawl's development in regards to guests are that manga characters are "impossible", which is his go-to statement for anything he can't/won't do.
There is no legitimate quote of him ever saying that Smash is "video game characters only".

And before you go into "but impossible means never happening"....
...he literally said the same thing about guests in general and Ridley. Then Brawl and Ultimate happened. Is he likely to change his mind in this particular case? Not really, because of how difficult it would be to GET someone like Goku in the game, not because of some hard-on for "only video game characters allowed" rule that was never actually stated.

But the reality is, he's changed his mind before on many things he's decided against in the past (including the "no realistic firearms allowed" policy as of now with Joker), so to argue that he'd NEVER change his mind on something just because you don't want it to happen is nothing short of being outright asinine.

I get you have a hate boner for Goku and his supporters, but calm yourself and get your facts straight before spouting off nonsense.
Difference is Ridley's a video game character.

And again let me ask? What and why is Goku so different from other non-video game characters? Just because he's popular? If he gets in may as well begin adding Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, Spider-Man, Scooby-Doo, Shrek and such because they're also popular too and people will begin asking for them. Another reason I'm against his inclusion.
 
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D

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Difference is Ridley's a video game character.
You're just parroting yourself again and that does not make for a good argument.
That literally doesn't matter. Stop moving goalposts.

And again let me ask? What and why is Goku so different from other non-video game characters? If he gets in may as well begin adding Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, Spider-Man, Scooby-Doo, Shrek and such because people will be asking for them. Another reason I'm against his inclusion.
Stop with the fallacious arguments.
This shows you don't read a damn thing anyone says.

Goku getting in does not mean ANYTHING for anyone else due to circumstances around how Goku would get in.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Forget it no point arguing over this...I still stand with my opinion though that Goku needs to stay away from Smash and I will never understand why he gets to be an exception.
 
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Oddball

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Again ask me what makes Goku an exception besides being popular?
Personally I hate the idea of Goku being in Smash, but I do think there are non-videogame characters that have memorable roles in Nintendo's history.

STILL, ignoring my personal feelings on the matter .... "because he's popular" is as good a reason as any to put a character in.


Video game crossover is still too vague as Nintendo outnumbers everything else to a ridiculous degree. If the intent is to honor all games in general, then they've failed miserably and likely always will. If anything that is a reason to keep it Nintendo focused, because the industry as a whole is simply too big to fit.
I think you're trying to make too much of a formal statement about what it should include. It's less a celebration of videogame history and more "Nintendo's throwing a party! And they invited some of their friends!"
 

Arthur97

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Personally I hate the idea of Goku being in Smash, but I do think there are non-videogame characters that have memorable roles in Nintendo's history.

STILL, ignoring my personal feelings on the matter .... "because he's popular" is as good a reason as any to put a character in.



I think you're trying to make too much of a formal statement about what it should include. It's less a celebration of videogame history and more "Nintendo's throwing a party! And they invited some of their friends!"
To be honest, I don't mind that definition, but some of them is like, how do they even know you?

Also, bear in mind they keep putting Smash Bros X [insert series here] on third party trailers. They did it for both Persona and Castlevania. There was no such thing on the other trailers. They're still guests.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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It would definitely feel unpopular if future software updates continue to keep certain fighters too good, while others are still left in the garbage to rot.

Smash 3DS / Wii U obviously did nothing to help struggling fighters like Dedede.
 

osby

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It would definitely feel unpopular if future software updates continue to keep certain fighters too good, while others are still left in the garbage to rot.

Smash 3DS / Wii U obviously did nothing to help struggling fighters like Dedede.
On the other hand, it helped greatly to fighters like Marth or Mewtwo and made certain top tiers significantly more bearable, it wasn't all bad.
 

TheDuke54

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I don't remember much on Smash4 updates, but they also buffed fighters if I am remembering right. Like Zelda, right? I think one of my friends mentioned her getting a buff during its life.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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On the other hand, it helped greatly to fighters like Marth or Mewtwo and made certain top tiers significantly more bearable, it wasn't all bad.
That is true. But since people are bringing up how unfair Peach and Daisy are right now, it definitely makes you feel concerned that future updates won't nerf them enough, or even touch them at all. When you look back at Smash 3DS / Wii U, its final updates clearly didn't nerf Bayonetta enough to knock her off her high horse.

Also, when you look at Little Mac's situation, he might not get any improvements (or at least those that could put him in a more tolerable tier position), simply because his ground game pros outrank the things that are hurting him very badly right now. Yes, his air game is supposed to be among the worst, but only being allowed to perform one aerial Jolt Haymaker is one serious nerf that made Little Mac's already atrocious recovery even worse.
 

Arthur97

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Peach and Daisy are nowhere near as bad as Bayonetta. Let's just stop the nerf culture.
 

Arthur97

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But they're still pretty bad. Sure, not as bad as vanilla Bayo (shudders), but you can't deny that they're in need of a nerf.
Yes, I can. From what I've seen they aren't even winning that many tournaments if they are really as good as you say. Being salty is not a good enough reason to nerf (sorry, Chrom). Nerfs should never be the go to, yet here we are. They aren't broken and actually take some skill to play. Leave them be.
 
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TheDuke54

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I think the problem is all fighters take skill to play. It's down to how much skill.
 

Arthur97

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Peach has historically been on the higher end of the skill cap. Might explain her relative lack of presence compared to how much people hype her and Daisy up. And I'd much rather the best fighter take a lot more skill than just ladder combo to win (yes, I'm oversimplifying 4 Bayonetta).
 

Gamer Cube

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It's alright, even if you meant Fox. This is the unpopular thread after all.

I could say Little Mac is top tier and I'd actually be posting correctly. The more people who disagree and hit me up with comments proves that my post was unpopular.
But Little Mac is top tier... Why won't anyone believe me?

You won't believe how many times people say my main is trash, then I kick their face in with his super armor XD.
 

TheDuke54

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His recovery when off stage is terrible. I wish they would fix/buff him so he could recover more easily. People quickly try to push him to the ledge and just throw him off. And that's all they ever try and for the most part it works. If they could work a better recovery in for him somehow then he'd be more viable.

People do the same thing with me when I used to main Doc. Mario on 4. It was always satisfying using his cape, when someone would try to jump out and knock him back further off course, only for them to get hit with the cape and be sent way off course. Especially great when they can't recover.
 

Boredatwork

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The only non-video game characters that should ever be added to Smash are either Popeye (due to its role in shaping Nintendo as a video game company) or James Bond (due to GoldenEye's prominence during the N64 era).

Anything other than either of those would feel wrong imo
 

Arthur97

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Well, James Bond would likely be borderline impossible given all the licensing you'd have to go through.
 

Boredatwork

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Oh, I absolutely don't see it as likely, or even possible. I'm just saying it would be one of the two justified additions of non-video game characters in my humble opinion.
 
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If we're looking for ones significant to gaming history, there's also Scrooge McDuck and the TMNT.
 

Gimmick-Hater

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The music in Persona doesn't appeal to me, and it's the thing I'm least excited about when it comes to Joker's inclusion.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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It's pretty sad. He's been nerfed in Ultimate once already, and he'll probably be nerfed again and return to being a low tier.
If you are talking about the Gordo hitbox reduction, while technically a nerf, it's a very negligible change that doesn't do a lot of difference in his matchups. Otherwise, Triple D is leagues better than his Smash 4 counterpart and he is shaping up to be pretty good. Kinda silly to claim how he is going to be nerfed again when the patches haven't come out and you have nothing to base off.
 

TheDuke54

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A really annoying and seriously flawed game from the NES that caused the angry game guy to flip his stuff.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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TMNT, eh? What have they done to be so relevant?
Well they did have some cool old games (TMNT 2 NES arcade, Mattanhan project and Turtles in Time) though they haven't had any too exciting nowadays.

I personally think they should stick with video game characters no matter what but TMNT would be one of the better ideas in my opinion for non video game characters.
 

Gimmick-Hater

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I find Joker's move-set to be somewhat bland, and uninspired. Especially since a lot of his moves are very reminiscent of pre-existing moves (albeit, you could say that for a lot of characters, but something about Joker's moves just seem more bland than usual). Even his gimmick is basically just an ehanced version of Cloud's limit break mechanic with enhanced versions of the same moves, but also Pit's up-special & a generic counter. Joker just feels sort of whelming. Especially compared to past DLC characters like Ryu, and Bayonetta.
 

Kiligar

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The fighter adjustments patch was lazy. Could have been done in a day, instead we wait months for steroids Mewtwo, yay Corrin and let’s ignore all other mid and low tiers. Nerf Duck Hunt, has now officially replaced Nerf Greninja. Just look at patch 2.0.0 and patch 3.0.0

Also swordies are even more hard-favored than they used to be due to projectile nerfs and grab buffs to the Marth clones.
 
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Arthur97

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I find Joker's move-set to be somewhat bland, and uninspired. Especially since a lot of his moves are very reminiscent of pre-existing moves (albeit, you could say that for a lot of characters, but something about Joker's moves just seem more bland than usual). Even his gimmick is basically just an ehanced version of Cloud's limit break mechanic with enhanced versions of the same moves, but also Pit's up-special & a generic counter. Joker just feels sort of whelming. Especially compared to past DLC characters like Ryu, and Bayonetta.
Well, I don't have him, but that back throw animation...well, looks like it's just Marth's.
 

Mogisthelioma

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I'm going to ignore some of the drivel you said earlier and focus on the three dumbest things I've seen in a while:
Being salty is not a good enough reason to nerf (sorry, Chrom)
This is a major insult if I've ever seen one. Are you implying that I'm salty about either Peach or Chrom? I've brought up lots of good points as to why they need to fix some of the broken things with Peach (mainly her being able to escape the damage nerf) and you throw this out? Listen up. Chrom's nerf was to one move that barely had an effect on major gameplay that was fixed in late January. That was months ago, it's in the past now. This is an entirely different discussion.

No one here is salty about Peach in any way. I'm simply bringing up a good point: Her floating ability allows her to escape nerfs that no other fighter can, which breaks the system the development team tried to implement to balance the new short ho aerial tech--which means being able to escape this nerf and thus buff her neutral game in every way is inherently broken. All you need to do is hold crouch and jump to execute free strong aerials to remain safe in neutral, there's no skill cap about that. It allows her to space and makes powerful attacks like her side special completely safe on shield.

If you're implying that I'm salty and I want nerfs, you couldn't be more wrong. I've never lost to a Peach player and said "Wow, that's OP, she should be nerfed." I'm saying this because I've played as Peach and her ability to oppress my opponent in neutral with her boosted aerials is something I think is unfair. As someone who plays Peach, I think she needs to be nerfed.
They aren't broken and actually take some skill to play. Leave them be.
And yet you haven't actually explained why. All you've been saying is "They have a kill cap they're not broken," completely ignoring every point I've made. Of course she takes skill to play: so does every other fighter in the game. Nobody picked up Bayonetta in Smash 4 and was suddenly able to play neutral like a master and ladder combo from the bottom of the stage within ten minutes. Every fighter in this game takes practice to get good with. Little Mac probably takes the most practice to master because of all of his debilitating disadvantages. But it took me less than a day of playing Peach before I started executing free flow combos and crazy neutral tools thanks to her float mechanic.

You're completely ignoring the fact that having a skill cap doesn't deny the fact that Peach is still breaking the mechanics of the game. And as I've stated multiple times, there isn't a huge skill cap on her anyway. It's not hard at all to begin comboing off with her or use her incredible oppressive neutral tools. You don't actually know what you're talking about, do you? This isn't rocked science. Having this made up skill cap of yours isn't changing the fact that their floating mechanic is overpowering their aerials. And again, notice how basically every top player is placing them in the top 5, 3, or even the #1 fighter in the game. They've all been playing Smash Bros. for years and understand how the system is supposed to work. Nobody is saying "Ah, well Peach and Daisy have a skill cap the size of a hippopotamus, I'd say they're a low A tier at best." This skill cap you're talking about has zero effect on the balance of the game, and I'd reckon it's entirely fictional.

Peach and Daisy are nowhere near as bad as Bayonetta. Let's just stop the nerf culture.
Ah, I see. So it's binary.
Are they Bayonetta? Me nerf.
Are they not Bayonetta? Me not nerf.

Yes, Bayonetta was busted silly. But just because a fighter isn't exactly like Bayonetta doesn't mean they still have problems. As stated several times already (which you continually choose to ignore), Peach and Daisy completely hurdle over the short hop aerial nerf, which allows them to receive buffs to their neutral game, makes their attacks safe on shield, boosts the effectiveness of their spacing and allows for greater combo and damage potential. You can't deny that being able to overcome this nerf is breaking the system.

The only nerf to Peach and Daisy that I think is truly necessary is to fix their mechanic so they have the reduced damage and stun on their short hop float attacks. After that, we can see if any other changes to float are actually needed (probably not). It's not a major nerf and it won't have a huge effect on their gameplay at all.
 

Arthur97

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That reminds me, I actually want Joker to be bad. I don't think he'll be awful, but I don't want him to be good.
 
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