Unpopular Smash 5 Opinions!

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Gonna need more evidence than ZeRo. He may be a great player, but his tier thoughts can be...odd and should be taken with a grain of salt.
Did you actually watch the video? He did an entire analysis of how Peach's unfair mechanics allow her to bypass nerfs that no other fighter (except Mega Man but whatever) can do. Peach is objectively overpowered because of this.

Yea, ZeRo is a human and can make mistakes, but decent sized video that carefully analyzes how easy it is to abuse all of her silliness. It's no surprise that basically every top player is putting her in top 5 or even #1.
 
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Did you actually watch the video? He did an entire analysis of how Peach's unfair mechanics allow her to bypass nerfs that no other fighter (except Mega Man but whatever) can do. Peach is objectively overpowered because of this.

Yea, ZeRo is a human and can make mistakes, but decent sized video that carefully analyzes how easy it is to abuse all of her silliness. It's no surprise that basically every top player is putting her in top 5 or even #1.
I agree. He went over too many accurate facts to just disregard his explanation of why Peach is so broken. He even went over multiple details that other people would base their whole video on.
 
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Did you actually watch the video? He did an entire analysis of how Peach's unfair mechanics allow her to bypass nerfs that no other fighter (except Mega Man but whatever) can do. Peach is objectively overpowered because of this.

Yea, ZeRo is a human and can make mistakes, but decent sized video that carefully analyzes how easy it is to abuse all of her silliness. It's no surprise that basically every top player is putting her in top 5 or even #1.
I mean, he said Roy was high tier in 4. I don't think they are overpowered simply because of float. They are good sure, but broken, let's not jump the gun. Throwing around words like "objectively" might be overkill. And it's not like they are overly oppressive like some other have been in the series. I think you're overreacting.
 
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I mean, he said Roy was high tier in 4. I don't think they are overpowered simply because of float. They are good sure, broken, let's not jump the gun. Throwing around words like "objectively" might be overkill. And it's not like they are overly oppressive like some other have been in the series. I think you're overreacting.
But have you played against a god-tier peach player? Peach is so good if your opponent knows how to use her.
 
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Sure, Peach has a high skill-cap, but their moveset has a little too much damage output.
So you say, but until they reach Bayonetta or Cloud levels, there's no reason to be so harsh on them. Especially to the point of removing Peach's core mechanic. They are good, let's not go around saying overpowered.
 

Xelrog

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Setting aside OPness, I would like Daisy to lose the floating just to differentiate her from Peach some more. She's never been known for floating like Peach has, and buffing her in other ways to compensate would solidify her as the more athletic of the two.

No clue how unpopular that is. Usually when I bring it up some other guy comes in asking for a Daisy triple jump because of one game, or something.
 
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So you say, but until they reach Bayonetta or Cloud levels, there's no reason to be so harsh on them. Especially to the point of removing Peach's core mechanic. They are good, let's not go around saying overpowered.
I'm just saying nerf the damage. Otherwise, I think this conversation is just devolving to an argument. Not to mention if you read the first post in the thread it says don't judge other people's opinions. I think they should nerf Peach's damage output.
 

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Hearing about Peach's (presumed) cheapness makes you wonder what would've happened if Bayonetta kept everything that made her good in Smash 3DS / Wii U.

And sorry in advance, but make Rosalina great again!
 
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I mean, he said Roy was high tier in 4. I don't think they are overpowered simply because of float. They are good sure, but broken, let's not jump the gun. Throwing around words like "objectively" might be overkill. And it's not like they are overly oppressive like some other have been in the series. I think you're overreacting.
You didn't answer the question. Did you actually watch the video?

In Ultimate, executing an aerial out of a short hop has less damage and hitstun than doing an aerial out of a full hop. However, using aerials in float animation or float cancelling bypasses this, meaning Peach and Daisy get to have boosts to both their damage output and hitstun using aerials in neutral. That makes their ability to execute aerials objectively better than everyone else's and gives them an unfair advantage.

Besides, who cares if he called Roy a top tier in Smash 4. That was the previous game. This is Ultimate, and almost every top player is repeating the same thing.
 

TheDuke54

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Sorry everybody, I was not talking about Fox, he is balanced. I didn't proofread. I meant WOLF. Sorry to cause confusion : )
It's alright, even if you meant Fox. This is the unpopular thread after all.

I could say Little Mac is top tier and I'd actually be posting correctly. The more people who disagree and hit me up with comments proves that my post was unpopular.
 

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In Ultimate, executing an aerial out of a short hop has less damage and hitstun than doing an aerial out of a full hop. However, using aerials in float animation or float cancelling bypasses this, meaning Peach and Daisy get to have boosts to both their damage output and hitstun using aerials in neutral. That makes their ability to execute aerials objectively better than everyone else's and gives them an unfair advantage.
This obviously would not be an issue if the damage reduction multiplier never existed to begin with. Reduced damage alone causes attacks to KO later, even if the knockback formula ignores the damage multipliers.
 
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You didn't answer the question. Did you actually watch the video?

In Ultimate, executing an aerial out of a short hop has less damage and hitstun than doing an aerial out of a full hop. However, using aerials in float animation or float cancelling bypasses this, meaning Peach and Daisy get to have boosts to both their damage output and hitstun using aerials in neutral. That makes their ability to execute aerials objectively better than everyone else's and gives them an unfair advantage.

Besides, who cares if he called Roy a top tier in Smash 4. That was the previous game. This is Ultimate, and almost every top player is repeating the same thing.
It is an advantage. Don't act like having one is suddenly unfair. Kirby has more jumps than most. Is that an unfair advantage? It is an ability to be worked with or around. Do not act like they are this oppressive force. They can be the best and not be broken, and the float mechanic is hardly broken.
 
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It is an advantage. Don't act like having one is suddenly unfair. Kirby has more jumps than most. Is that an unfair advantage? It is an ability to be worked with or around. Do not act like they are this oppressive force. They can be the best and not be broken, and the float mechanic is hardly broken.
And you still haven't answered the question. Have you actually seen the video or not? I guarantee if you haven't that seeing it will change your opinion. Here's the link if you need it:

If we're going to talk about Kirby, I should probably remind you that he has one of the slowest airspeeds in the game, and is also the seventh lightest fighter in the game. This does make it something to be worked with or around, since a Kirby player has to keep in mind these factors to determine the best way to recover without dying early or getting gimped. However, having five jumps doesn't give him the same advantages Peach gets from being able to float. They simply allow him to hop in the air and give him a recovery boost.

Peach on the other hand can use float for all sorts of things:
  • Stalling
  • Float cancel aerials
  • Combos
  • Recovering
  • Edgeguarding
  • Safely landing
  • Apply extra pressure
  • Execute aerials on ground without vertical movement
  • Huge boost overall in neutral game
  • Escape in disadvantage
The float mechanic is so advantageous to Peach and Daisy that it can only be worked with. There is no work around for their opponent. Are you offstage? They'll hover at the edge and float aerials. Did their teammate die? Stall offstage while you wait. Want to get damage done fast? Start comboing off with float cancel shenanigans. Does your opponent have stage control? Stall in the air and float to the edge. Peach and Daisy can do so many things with one move that some fighters simply can't do at all.

This isn't something most fighters can work around. Floating gives Peach and Daisy many different extra opportunities and exploits that no other fighter as access to. It's way more than a simple five jump advantage or the other properties that make every fighter unique. Even in your example most people are calling Kirby a mid tier at best. Do people call Little Mac overpowered because he has super armor on his Smash attacks? Do people call Wolf a low tier because of his lackluster recovery? No and no. Kirby having five jumps is a bad example since its simply one property he has. No one is calling :ultjigglypuff::ultkingdedede::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultridley::ultcharizard: good simply for having multiple jumps.

So yes, I am going to act like this is an oppressive force. Float gives those two access to an amalgamation of abilities that most other fighters only have two or three of. The damage buff to float aerials is only one of their many tricks, but is certainly one of the most effective in neutral. In another video ZeRo made, he said this: "So they added this mechanic to Peach which makes her safer on block, makes her do more damage, and makes her combos be insane and ridiculous."

I'm not sure what else to say. Peach and Daisy would still be good characters even without the floating mechanic. it's simply broken and unfair. It gives them advantages that make some of their abilities strictly better than everyone else's.

Any Questions?
 

TheDuke54

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Kirby being able to float isn't really on the same level. It's not like quickplay and online can be used for a 100% accurate representation of the fighters/people who use them, but I don't see that many Kirby mains online. I see a lot more Peach and Daisy's who exploit the floaty stuff. Most of what I see Kirby users abusing is the air down b strike. It's more of rookie spam, but that's easy to punish when given the chance.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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It is an advantage. Don't act like having one is suddenly unfair. Kirby has more jumps than most. Is that an unfair advantage? It is an ability to be worked with or around. Do not act like they are this oppressive force. They can be the best and not be broken, and the float mechanic is hardly broken.
Following what Mogisthelioma Mogisthelioma brought up, Kirby lacks the air speed that's needed for him to properly utilize his air game. He has the 5th worst air speed, which is pretty much inexcusable, considering that Kirby's recovery move hardly does anything for his horizontal movement, and that poor air speed alone is among the reasons for why his competitive viability is bad; compare that to Meta Knight, whose air speed is better, AND has more than one recovery move that he can rely on.

While this could be debatable to some, an air speed value that's around the range of 1.05 - 1.1 could help Kirby in not just his overall recovery, but his air game may become more effective as well.
 
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Following what Mogisthelioma Mogisthelioma brought up, Kirby lacks the air speed that's needed for him to properly utilize his air game. He has the 5th worst air speed, which is pretty much inexcusable, considering that Kirby's recovery move hardly does anything for his horizontal movement, and that poor air speed alone is among the reasons for why his competitive viability is bad; compare that to Meta Knight, whose air speed is better, AND has more than one recovery move that he can rely on.

While this could be debatable to some, an air speed value that's around the range of 1.05 - 1.1 could help Kirby in not just his overall recovery, but his air game may become more effective as well.
It was an example of having something most don't. Several fighters have such mechanics. It doesn't make them unfair, it makes them unique. Unless Peach and Daisy become dominant, I simply see this as needless complaining. There are still not that many Peach or Daisy's out there, so it just isn't the end of the world if they're really good.
 
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Why the **** is Goku being in Smash a damn thing to begin with? What I don't honestly get is what makes him stand out from other non-video game characters that makes him so special and an exception?

If he gets in then I guess that means Batman, Spider-Man, Shrek and Scooby-Doo should get in too and people will begin asking for them which is absolutely why I'm totally against Goku's inclusion in the game.
 

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Why the **** is Goku being in Smash a damn thing to begin with? What I don't honestly get is what makes him stand out from other non-video game characters that makes him so special and an exception?

If he gets in then I guess that means Batman, Spider-Man, Shrek and Scooby-Doo should get in too and people will begin asking for them which is absolutely why I'm totally against Goku's inclusion in the game.
Popularity, mostly.

For some reason there's a large correlation between fans of DBZ and Smash players.
 

Zeke The Zekenator

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Why the **** is Goku being in Smash a damn thing to begin with? What I don't honestly get is what makes him stand out from other non-video game characters that makes him so special and an exception?

If he gets in then I guess that means Batman, Spider-Man, Shrek and Scooby-Doo should get in too and people will begin asking for them which is absolutely why I'm totally against Goku's inclusion in the game.
I normally push Goku for Smash as a joke, I don't think you have to take everything so seriously.
 
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I really hate it when people equate Goku getting in to others as if they are on equal ground.

I mean there is clear reason he continues to get discussion while others don't.
He isn't JUST a meme or a passing fad like Shrek was in the Smash 4 days. People unironically want him in the game, especially in the Latin America region, where Dragon Ball is taken VERY seriously.

Goku getting in, while it would theoretically open the doors for other guests from IPs that didn't originate in gaming, it wouldn't actually DO anything for them.

Goku getting in would be a rather special circumstance that required multiple companies and Nintendo willing to cooperate over a character that has been requested for almost as long as the likes of Ridley.

It is highly unlikely Sakurai/Nintendo would be willing to attempt something like that even a second time unless legitimate support for a specific character became noticeable over the passage of time and the company or companies that own them are willing to cooperate. Oh, and they have a history of games to represent.

So no, Goku does not equate everyone you could possibly think of getting in. So knock that **** off. He'd be the exception, not the rule.
 
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Manonymous

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characters having more diverse move-sets.
Lol Smash Bros not having diverse movesets ?
You have air fighter, projectile fighter, close range, long range, grounded fighter, fighters who are good at edgeguarding and some who are more skilled at baiting. Even with Fire Emblem, you have different playstyles : Marth and Robin play nothing alike.
 
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Lol Smash Bros not having diverse movesets ?
You have air fighter, projectile fighter, close range, long range, grounded fighter, fighters who are good at edgeguarding and some who are more skilled at baiting. Even with Fire Emblem, you have different playstyles : Marth and Robin play nothing alike.
I meant more diverse as in having more moves for each character. Kind of like how Smash 4 had custom moves, but they had all of them at the same time.
 
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I've never understood the argument that "if we let ___ in then we have to let all manga/anime/cartoon/comicbook/movie/breakfast cereal mascots in."

Smash Bros is actually made by real people. People can think and understand that what they're doing is making an exception. Letting Batman in (for example) doesn't mean they have to let in Kool-Aid Man and the cast of Tenchi Muyo.
 
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Honestly, the short hop aerial nerf is so stupid. It's another layer of variance that doesn't add anything.
It's especially stupid how Peach and Daisy totally neglect this nerf with their floating.

Also, ZeRo is wrong about Diddy. Diddy is probably High Tier, but on the lower spectrum.
 

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I've never understood the argument that "if we let ___ in then we have to let all manga/anime/cartoon/comicbook/movie/breakfast cereal mascots in."

Smash Bros is actually made by real people. People can think and understand that what they're doing is making an exception. Letting Batman in (for example) doesn't mean they have to let in Kool-Aid Man and the cast of Tenchi Muyo.
It’s not that they have to, it’s that they can.
 
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I really hate it when people equate Goku getting in to others as if they are on equal ground.

I mean there is clear reason he continues to get discussion while others don't.
He isn't JUST a meme or a passing fad like Shrek was in the Smash 4 days. People unironically want him in the game, especially in the Latin America region, where Dragon Ball is taken VERY seriously.

Goku getting in, while it would theoretically open the doors for other guests from IPs that didn't originate in gaming, it wouldn't actually DO anything for them.

Goku getting in would be a rather special circumstance that required multiple companies and Nintendo willing to cooperate over a character that has been requested for almost as long as the likes of Ridley.

It is highly unlikely Sakurai/Nintendo would be willing to attempt something like that even a second time unless legitimate support for a specific character became noticeable over the passage of time and the company or companies that own them are willing to cooperate. Oh, and they have a history of games to represent.

So no, Goku does not equate everyone you could possibly think of getting in. So knock that **** off. He'd be the exception, not the rule.
Even though as Sakurai stated.

Video Game characters only.

Which Goku ain't to begin with so I still don't get why he should be an exception just because he's popular. Batman's popular too guess he should be added as well by that logic. I do know this will come across very rude but anyone who thinks Goku can get in or even has a chance is an idiot. I'm not taking it back.
 
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To be fair, Sakurai has seemingly changed his mind before. Still, no Goku, just, no.

Also, saying he was an exception, well, wasn't Snake? Then they decided to ask who else people might want since they were doing it anyway and we got Sonic. Look where we are now.
 
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To be fair, Sakurai has seemingly changed his mind before. Still, no Goku, just, no.

Also, saying he was an exception, well, wasn't Snake? Then they decided to ask who else people might want since they were doing it anyway and we got Sonic. Look where we are now.
Because.

He said.

VIDEO. GAME. CHARACTERS. ONLY.

Which Snake is.

Goku is not.

Again ask me what makes Goku an exception besides being popular?
 
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osby

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I'm not a proponent of Goku. I'm deadset against him.

It was Nintendo only, until Snake was the exception.
Third parties were considered as early as in Melee, where the series cemented its identity. And non-video characters are rejected since then.

Smash started as a video game crossover and it still is. I don't think third parties affect this in any way.
 
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Video game crossover is still too vague as Nintendo outnumbers everything else to a ridiculous degree. If the intent is to honor all games in general, then they've failed miserably and likely always will. If anything that is a reason to keep it Nintendo focused, because the industry as a whole is simply too big to fit.
 
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