Unofficial Stage Discussion with new Counter Factor ruleset

[~Peachy~]

Mmhmmmm.. I like this new idea of "All Legal Stages Are Starters and Counterpicks! ^__^

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Who would accually play on 75 m in a tournament match?

a heavy character?

but seriously,tl;dr it needs more work

 

[Denzi]

I just said bridge of eldin because I hate it, why? Its immense side camping to ez 0-death throws D:

Also, Dedede. Nuff said.

 

[Greenstreet]

The metagame would change because now you would have to beaware of stage hazards that will mess up with how you play.

This whole thread is an idea, a theory, and a new way to try something out. If you would acually think about this for a bit and stop complaining then maybe you would see how this would stop camping and CG'ing. You don't ned to be shown if you think it through. If you really want to see it for yourself get a bunch of your friends and go play using these rules!

If they run it can be considered stalling if they continue it then disqualify them. your there to play and fight people and have fun not to run around on a stage and be a moron so just disqualify them.

Distant Planet does not have gravity changes in it and you can land ontop of that thing and stay there for two seconds before getting eatten. In The Summit your in water, you can't do anything except jump which takes time to do causing you to be eatten before you get out. The part where you get washed only occurs when it rains and even if you do you can hang on the ledge at the bottom of the hill and not be taken down by the water. Pirate Ship has gravity changes but the stage does not angle itself during them. the ship still stays flat while its in the tornado. The bombs provide metagame changes because you now have to add in stage hazards to dodge that are more easily avoided than the fish on summit because your screwed if your hit down in there. Plus the Polar Bear slams the summit down more every time he jumps making less of the stage. You can avoid the kill point frm the catapult on the ship and it doesn;t come up that often if you're that worried about it wait til it goes back inside the ship before going over.

Waht to stop a person from coutner picking Rumble falls against ganondorf is the fact that you can prevent playing on that stage with these counter factor ruleset. whoever lost can pick a stage to not be played on. If you're even more worried aobut it then don't be ganondorf and be MK -.- answer to everything these days >.>

Flat ZOne 2 is much smaller and the people and random falling foods hurt and rack up damage easier than the other stages because on the other stages they can be avoided more easily. Onnet you only need to worry about a car and its easily avoided. Flat Zone 2's damage racking hazards are much more frequent and in a smaller area. True this could change the metagame up but it would also make it harder for players to learn from fighting other people. You have to dodge the random crap on Flat Zone 2 more than you have to acually fight your opponent.

Pirate Ship and Rumble Falls don't have as big of a luck factor as the banned stages for this list do. The bombs and catapult on pirate ship can be easily avoided. Rumble falls all you need to know is where those needles are and you can avoid them more easily. They change metagame because you have a potential chance of getting hit into them by your opponent. WHich is just a failure for you because you probably could have avoided it completly.

On Norfair getting into that capsule is no your only means of avoiding it. You can hang on a ledge and use the invincibility frames, you can spot dodge or aerial dodge. Countering with marth of Ike, Using MK's dimensional cape, Lucarios doubble team, theres many different ways and if you don't play with these characters then aerial dodge, spot dodge or grab the ledge. Or go tell your opponent to gtfo and hit him out.

Then wouldn't Flat Zone 2 increase the metagame even FURTHER by making players aware of the stage hazards?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Then wouldn't Flat Zone 2 increase the metagame even FURTHER by making players aware of the stage hazards?

then wouldn't making every stage legal increase the metagame further by that logic?

 

[Greenstreet]

then wouldn't making every stage legal increase the metagame further by that logic?

= my point.

But it's simply not true. I don't really have a problem with this thread in what it is discussing, but the mere fact that lies were told in the beginning ticks me off. Especially from someone who has been here since 2003...

Also objective statements saying that it WILL improve the metagame? You can't may a claim like that without evidence...stick to normatives.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Yes, Greenstreet this WILL change the metagame for the better.

 

[Greenstreet]

Also objective statements saying that it WILL improve the metagame? You can't may a claim like that without evidence...stick to normatives.

Nice listening skills. I wouldn't mind if you said it should (normative), but you are being objective, and I see no proof in the past that a list like this WILL improve the metagame for the better. Objective statements have to be justifiable and proven, yours is not at this stage. So come back with proof.

 

[Paff]

I fail to see why everyone continued arguing with this guy after the point where it was confirmed that the SBR had nothing to do with this and that his claims otherwise were blatant lies.

He's either a lunatic or a troll, and I don't see the point in discussing this ruleset with him in either case. I think the most productive option here is to let this topic die.

 

[Greenstreet]

*sighs* Fine... I need to respect your decision Paff... because you like Calvin and Hobbes....
Bye silly thread.

 

[Paff]

Heh, I'm not ordering you not to or anything. If you really want to keep arguing with him, go ahead; I just don't see the point.

 

[CaliburChamp]

This thread deserves a sticky. I also started using these rules online when I play matches on AiB, I let the person know about this and they agree on it, I haven't had any disagreements on it yet when playing a person. In fact they respect me more when I voice my ideas, proof from the good feedback I get.
So its definitly worth fighting for. I'd also like to see what the SBR thinks of this, since they actually think before posting.

 

[Wallehh]

I agree sorta, I think the started stages gave some people advantages like FD would help projectilists.

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

Give me your argument for these stages being fair:
75 m
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
New Pork City

I just want to see if it's anything but: "We needz teh moar stages."
Because if it is, I'll pay attention.

If not, you'll continue to infuriate a lot of people with your pompous attitude and bizarre stage choices.
And please edit your original posts in which you say that this is SBR-standard. It's misleading.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Every starter stage has some slight advantage or disadvantage to certain characters.

 

[:034:]

Okay, this is a crappy list and stage rules!

First of all - the rules are bad. They are. In a tournament, there's a difference between neutrals and counters because a neutral is basically just that: a stage that doesn't specifically counter a character due to their neutral layout. However, we also know that some stages give a slight disadvantage: it's been recognized through the use of banning neutrals. If you know your characters sucks on Final Destination... Ban it! It's THAT easy.

Second of all, letting rock-paper-scissors decide is a dumb idea. RPS might seem like a completely luck based game, but it never really is. A human is never 100% random, never. Even so, let's say that there's one person who is really good at RPS and always wins. That way, he can pick the stage he's most comfortable with, which is a really big advantage, especially when you know what character he/she will use, which is usually always picked BEFORE stages. And, with your insane list of counterpicks and neutrals people can pick a stage that puts their character at a complete disadvantage straight away.

Well, you can just say "People should've banned that stage beforehand!", but this is not at all the case. If you're having a character that's very suspectible to D3's chaingrab, you basically automatically lose on any walk-off stage... Which according to your list is 13 out of 35 allowed stages. Last time I checked, you can't ban 13 stages in your list. How is this even remotely fair or even contributing to the metagame if everybody will simply pick D3 and chaingrab?

Applies to this as well.

3. When you lose, you get to ban a second stage from the set, which elminates 2 of your opponents best stages. (Ex: Battlefield and now Lylat Cruise)

4. Your opponent selects his third choice of a stage for the final round of round 3. Making it more fair since you eliminated his 2 best stages and he can't choose the stages he has already played you on, limiting his options even more, making it more fair game.

These rules aren't even remotely fair. Wow, I get to ban two stages, amazing! It doesn't matter when your opponent can easily beat you on 13 stages.

Next, the stage list: IT'S A BAD LIST.

There are a lot of stages that I can easily abuse. I'll pick Meta Knight and use whorenado once. Then run around in a circle for the rest of the match. This is applicable to more stages than you think, which is why they were banned in the first place. Don't forget that, after a match ends, the one with the least damage is the winner. If I get to ban 2 stages, say... Hanenbow and Hyrule Temple, on which this is easily done, Meta Knight will still get to do this on Luigi's Mansion, 75m, New Pork City and a couple others.

The other reason stages are banned is because either a random occurance can kill the player, or one of the players can simply camp happily near a certain spot so he can get a sure kill. Port Town Aero Dive is an example of the first and second (a player can force his opponent to the ground, getting hit by the cars) and Rumble Falls with it's spikes is a good example of the latter. These two situations are in NO WAY contributing to the competition and metagame in Brawl, as they are the complete opposite - random occurances have no place in a competitive setting.


As a small side note I would like to say that this list is a disgrace to the SBR. Just who the hell do you think they are?! They've gone over this many times, with far more people, opinions and creative, smart minds than just one user. I certainly trust them more than just one user.