~!~ UNOFFICIAL Competitive Tournament Rules - Stage Ban List *UPDATED* ~!~

[Yuna]

Hanenbow/Electroplankton/etc.'s "water" isn't swimmable.

This explains why I saw Olimar get owned by the wate rafter Up B.

 

[Firestorm88]

Pictochat and Mario Circuit should not be banned at this point in the game. Especially considering Mario Circuit's cars are so easy to avoid (they come in through the bottom, top, bottom, top, etc alternatively and there's a map at the back showing where they are on the track at all times). Mute City was allowed, Mario Circuit should be.

Pictochat's hazards are hardly disruptive. Most of it just changes the stage's layout.

Those two should start as counter-pickable at this point in Brawl's life.
I think Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, and especially Halberd can be argued for neutral.
Green Hill Zone, Yoshi's Island, and Onett should be given a chance at least as well. Maybe even Elecktroplankton.
Rainbow Cruise should be counter-pick at all times.

 

[ScubaGoomba]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the reasons a stage becomes a counterpick, but shouldn't the fact that Hanenbow gimps only a specific type of character make it a legitimate counterpick? If you're given the option to pick a counterpick stage and you're playing a character with a tether recovery, why wouldn't you choose to pick the stage giving tethers an inherent disadvantage?

 

[Frames]

ignore plz

 

[Dark Hogosha]

List doesn't look too bad now that GHZ is banned in singles and Norfair is counter-legal. My five possible (in order from biggest to smallest) gripes:

1. Pirate Ship. I can't think of a good reason that this stage is legal when Summit isn't. Aside from when Summit is going downhill and that it's icy, it's nowhere near as bad as Pirate Ship. And my ZSS seems to get wrecked worse than normal on that stage (grapple becomes worse, neutral B is worse, forward+B is worse, EVERYTHING is worse, and everything is pretty bad already). Oh, and I hate 50%+ cannonballs and springtraps or whatever that stupid thing is. This is by far my least favorite stage in the game. I'd rather play 75m. I effing mean it.

2. Pictochat. Only part of this stage that's kinda bad that I can think of is the fence/spear part (four vertical spears, three sections, spears hurt you worse than they should). I really think it should be tested more, but I'm alright with a ban for now as long as it gets tested.

3. Green Hill Zone being legal at all. In doubles, it's not quite as bad, but it's still annoying. Like Yoshi's Island (Melee) annoying. And definitely favors characters that can nail the checkpoints and keep you at bay to the point of being rigged. Oh, and it's a walk-off all the time. Then again, it feels a lot like Mushroom Kingdom 2 at times, so hey, maybe it should be Doubles legal. ;P

4. Castle Siege. I'm not convinced that this should be legal at all. Inside the castle is walk-off central, and the transition between stages is pretty bad. I don't think it should be banned just yet, but I do think it should be discussed more.

5. Pokemon Stadium (Melee) being Neutral. I think it's day is over, especially now that the windmill part got a LOT worse. It's a toss-up in my mind between this and Delfino being the 6th Neutral in Singles.

Other than these, my only other HUGE gripes were addressed (GHZ being singles-legal and Norfair being banned).

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Yeah, so if Shadow Moses Island was banned because of Falco's new infinite or DeDeDe's chaingrab, then it's a very valid reason.

But Falco's was proven to be extremely limited to a small minority of characters and to only work at very low percentages and Dedede was shown to be able to perform a infinite version of chaingrab without even moving anyway. That makes it more a severe problem with Dedede itself.

The walls therefore shouldn't even have an effect therefore Shadow Moses shouldn't be banned if thats the case.

 

[Yuna]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the reasons a stage becomes a counterpick, but shouldn't the fact that Hanenbow gimps only a specific type of character make it a legitimate counterpick? If you're given the option to pick a counterpick stage and you're playing a character with a tether recovery, why wouldn't you choose to pick the stage giving tethers an inherent disadvantage?

It's also a question of just how gimped they become. I mean, look at Skyworld. Break the floor, no tethering... at all.

 

[Keitaro]

The only reason I would want Pictochat unbanned is cause I just love playing the stage. Besides that it would be pretty ******** to play it in tourney and if you knew someone was better than you it would be an obvious counterpick.

 

[Mic_128]

Just to point out, I don't know where this list came from, but it is 100% not Smash Back Room approved. Stage discussion is currently the main focus, and while things are still in discussion, the number of banned stages are IN NO WAY as HUGE as the list in this topic. I've also editted the title a bit to hopefully clarify that this is in no way AT ALL official.

 

[Keitaro]

This list came from a MD/VA tournament hosted by Chudat that took place before Brawl came out in America. I think it was just an experimental list used in the tourney that wasn't meant to be official so I just see it as interesting.

 

[Crizthakidd]

im ok as long as no warirware lolz

 

[Shadow Nataku]

Just to point out, I don't know where this list came from, but it is 100% not Smash Back Room approved. Stage discussion is currently the main focus, and while things are still in discussion, the number of banned stages are IN NO WAY as HUGE as the list in this topic. I've also editted the title a bit to hopefully clarify that this is in no way AT ALL official.

Thank you for that clarification. The thread title was extremely misleading.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

Just to point out, I don't know where this list came from, but it is 100% not Smash Back Room approved. Stage discussion is currently the main focus, and while things are still in discussion, the number of banned stages are IN NO WAY as HUGE as the list in this topic. I've also editted the title a bit to hopefully clarify that this is in no way AT ALL official.

Thank god. I was worried.

 

[Tinkerer]

I don't remember, but I don't think Delfino Plaza's edge can be grabbed while in platform mode. One footstool/meteor/spike and anyone with a tether-only recovery will die if they've got ground under them.

It can be grabbed.

 

[Firestorm88]

Heh, should've been obvious anything not in the Back Room isn't official! But yeah, good clarification.

Dark Hogosha, the Pirate Ship's canonballs do 35% and can be seen coming. The catapault takes about a second before actually firing after becoming visible. Everything is avoidable if you do it right.

I see no reason for walk-off edges to be banned yet. Castle Siege is a great stage.

Pokemon Stadium's windmill being "annoying" is no reason for not being neutral. There's no reason for only 6 neutral stages either. We could easily have more.

 

[-9Volt+]

The pirate ship sometimes shoots from off screen.

Walk off edges make incredible gay with DeDeDe. However, I'd like Castle Siege to be good.

I completely agree with you about Poke stadium.

But yeah, in retrospect, there is going to be more stage hazards in Brawl. I think we just have to accept that.

The more I come to terms with "Brawl isn't Melee" the more I enjoy Brawl.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

althougth this list is not official it looks pretty good there's some stages that i dotn aggree with like mario circuit but other than whats wrong with it

 

[ropep0202]

Bridge of Eldin WHAT???
Thats pretty ridiculous.

 

[Yaya]

I don't see any real hazards on Luigi's Mansion, I'm thinking that should be a neutral.

 

[Rebel581]

Take Pokemon Stadium 1 off neutral. I want that stage banned. I'll list reasons:

1. Edges don't work. Ganondorf and Capt. Falcon can't sweetspot the ledge, and other characters get gimped too. Most obvious with the first two if you do their up-b's from below the ledge.

2. Rock stage. Right middle platform. Roll to the left of it. Then try rolling right. I dare you. Roll right. It's not possible.

3. Windmill.

Otherwise, I like the list. I think Delfino should be neutral though. The stage in the air is similar to normal stages. The stage switching is better than Rainbow Cruise. Any walk-offs are only there for a short period of time. If this become neutral, then we have 6 neutral stages again.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

I definitely don't think the Distant Planet stage should be banned. It seems fine to me....most of the fighting is done on the part in the middle, which isn't effected by anything at all really.

The Bulborg and the rain are relatively minor...

No one responded....

Why is Distant Planet banned? I see NO reason for it not to be counterpick, if not neutral.

I also think Delfino Plaza should become Neutral.

Heck, I think that pretty much all of the current counterpicks should become neutrals.

Also, Frigate and Norfair should be banned, they're very unfair.

 

[ScubaGoomba]

No one responded....

Why is Distant Planet banned? I see NO reason for it not to be counterpick, if not neutral.

I also think Delfino Plaza should become Neutral.

Heck, I think that pretty much all of the current counterpicks should become neutrals.

Also, Frigate and Norfair should be banned, they're very unfair.

Distant Planet is probably due to the walk-offs, although I agree that it should be a counterpick.

Frigate is perfectly fair; nothing is really bad enough to disrupt a game entirely. The worst case was when an Ike set off his Final Smash as the stage was flipping, causing it to freeze with everyone being very confused.

Norfair really has no warning as to when the lava is going to approach, giving an unfair advantage to characters that just happen to be on the right side of the stage.

 

[Team Giza]

Dedede was shown to be able to perform a infinite version of chaingrab without even moving anyway. That makes it more a severe problem with Dedede itself.

The walls therefore shouldn't even have an effect therefore Shadow Moses shouldn't be banned if thats the case.

Dedede no wall infinite only works on a select few characters above a certain percent so you can get rid of stale moves on the down+throw with the grab jabs. This is much different from his wall infinite which works on all characters at any percentage. Not sure if it would make the stage up for a ban... just letting you know the difference.

 

[Undrdog]

Dedede can infinite several characters without having to move... And many more characters can escape his Chainthrow via Up-B and other techniques. Add in these aspects, the fact that each player may ban a stage from play, and no walk-off stages on Random and you almost completely eliminate the Dedede issue. And with all of this working against Dedede's chain throw you'll see less and less people maining him just for his chainthrow.

With this in mind, "Mario Circuit" and "Bridge of Eldin" should not be banned. I don't know much about "Distant Planet" off-hand so I won't rally for it at the moment.

Plus I think "Delfino Plaza" should be randomized as well. I mean, just one stage that benefits characters who can't recover would be nice.


EDIT: Oh, Halberd is counterpickable on this list? >_< It's a neat level and all but it forces people out of their playstyles simply so they can avoid claw up their bum.

 

[YoshiBomb]

This is my opinion




Neutrals:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium - Melee
Rainbow Cruise - Melee (Teams only)
Delfino Plaza

Counterpicks:
Luigi's Mansion
Pirate Ship
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Castle Siege
Jungle Japes - Melee
Corneria - Melee
Rainbow Cruise - Melee (Singles only)
Green Greens - Melee
Brinstar - Melee
Mario Circuit
Onett - Melee

Banned:
Mushroomy Kingdom
Green Hill Zone
Rumble Falls
Bridge of Eldin
Pokemon Stadium 2
Spear Pillar
Port Town Aero Dive
Skyworld
WarioWare, Inc.
Distant Planet
Summit
75m
Mario Bros.
Flat Zone 2
Pictochat
Hanenbow
Shadow Moses Island
Temple - Melee
Yoshi's Island - Melee
Big Blue - Melee

 

[NintendoTogepi]

Distant Planet is probably due to the walk-offs, although I agree that it should be a counterpick.

Frigate is perfectly fair; nothing is really bad enough to disrupt a game entirely. The worst case was when an Ike set off his Final Smash as the stage was flipping, causing it to freeze with everyone being very confused.

Norfair really has no warning as to when the lava is going to approach, giving an unfair advantage to characters that just happen to be on the right side of the stage.

The walk offs? But they're on a SLOPE! A slope that's very hard to get up.

Anyway, Frigate is horrible. There is so many places where when it flips, you'll be killed instantly and cannot recover. I've died many times because of it. Plus it's very confusing....

Frigate is basically the definition of a banned stage, as is Norfair.

 

[amished]

Then explain why we banned stages because of laser-camping in Melee? Ever wondered why Peach Bomber stalling is banned, yet Fourside also banned (some think it's because of the Peach Bomber)? Because Marth can camp the tower (and Roy to a lesser extent).

Also, what if Fox and Falco hit you in one direction and runs in the other when the bomb goes off?

Apparently, Elektroplankton's water isn't swimable. Because of this, if you meteor someone with a tether and they cannot meteor-cancel using Up B and latching onto a leaf (depending on where on the stage you are, it can be literally impossible), they'll die.


Remember all of those stages banned because Fox and Falco could do some really messed up stuff on them? Instead of just banning them? Yeah, so if Shadow Moses Island was banned because of Falco's new infinite or DeDeDe's chaingrab, then it's a very valid reason.


I don't remember, but I don't think Delfino Plaza's edge can be grabbed while in platform mode. One footstool/meteor/spike and anyone with a tether-only recovery will die if they've got ground under them.

Ahh, I thought since I didn't die immediately by hitting the water like I would if it was air only, it would be swimmable.

However, from my knowledge (which admittedly is pretty limited) only Hyrule and the wierd one with the turtle on the right side was banned because of lazer camping. I thought that was mostly because nobody else could catch them mostly due to the land mass (the huge middle in Hyrule and the upper part of the turtle one). I don't see a land mass imposing on this, and even though I haven't really tried it, Fox/Falco's side B doesn't spike anymore either.. Besides, I didn't think Fox's laser's could reach that far even if he was on the very edge of the hole and you were near the walk-off...

 

[Chicobo329]

Remember all of those stages banned because Fox and Falco could do some really messed up stuff on them? Instead of just banning them? Yeah, so if Shadow Moses Island was banned because of Falco's new infinite or DeDeDe's chaingrab, then it's a very valid reason.

You know I've been wondering, why are we banning stages around broken techniques when we can just ban the broken technique itself? Like, why not just ban infinities likes Falco's so that you can play on Shadow Moses without having to worry about it? I'm not saying we should ban the chaingrab on DDD altogether by the way. Just say something like "Don't use this infinitely against a wall" or something. Anything to at least tell players to fight within reason should be simple enough and thus take stages out from this rather large ban list.

It seems to me quite a few stages are banned for one or two particular reasons regarding one or two particular characters. If you just resolve this by banning what makes them broken on that stage, you should fight fairly right? Or am I missing something here?

 

[Lovage 805]

When I first heard about people's complaints about Stadium 1, I mostly shrugged them off... until I started playing it. OH MY GOD. This stage is horrible.
1. The edge - Think of Battlefield from melee, times 15. Horribly glitchy, bad bad bad ledge.
2. The windmill - I didnt think much of this change until I played air zone a few times, it completely disrupts the play, giving some characters a huge advantage and making us unable to kill "left"
Teams, singles, my vote says B-A-N BAN THAT ****

 

[Mic_128]

Anyway, Frigate is horrible. There is so many places where when it flips, you'll be killed instantly and cannot recover. I've died many times because of it. Plus it's very confusing....

You'll be lucky if it flips twice out of an entire 3 stock match. And it's not that confusing, jeez. It's not *Flip*" Im confused, where's the ground? What way is up? Where's my pants? Who am I again?"

Frigate is basically the definition of a banned stage, as is Norfair.

...except both are not banned.

 

[IceEmblem]

I can't believe Green Hill Zone is banned, thats totally unfair.

 

[Doomgaze]

Anyway, Frigate is horrible. There is so many places where when it flips, you'll be killed instantly and cannot recover. I've died many times because of it. Plus it's very confusing....

It has happened to me TWO times (like the initial two times I played the map) in 6 weeks. I dunno how you manage to **** it up. The alarm rings well before it flips around so it's not like it turns unexpectedly either.

Frigate Orpheon is a good stage that by no means should be banned.

 

[Mic_128]

This is getting too messy and confusing with the first post seeming so official, so I've made a new fresh topic for people to discus posible neutral, counterpicks and banned stages, and can be found here.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153706