JOS.fm
Smash Journeyman
I'm a falco person!
and I like fighting jiggs since I don't know how and I'll probably lose.
and I like fighting jiggs since I don't know how and I'll probably lose.
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University of Texas - Austin
- Thread starter UT Smash Club
- Start date
JesusFreak
Smash Hero
My place isn't big enough. Plus it's not my place, it's my parents'. Actually, they'll be out of town in a couple weeks so I might be able to host something then.
JOS.fm
Smash Journeyman
If JF doesn't feel comfortable then I'd gladly be willing to host something if anybody's interested. Next saturday or after next. The only thing I'd need would probably be an extra setup and a headcount of any expected attendees.
JesusFreak
Smash Hero
They wouldn't be okay with me having a bunch of people over. The area where my gaming setup is located is pretty small.
Noc
Smash Journeyman
Sounds to me like there is demand for smash club meetings...
JOS.fm
Smash Journeyman
Of course there is. But we don't have the means to transport the setups if Kal and Rohan are unavailable.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
I will be unavailable next weekend unfortunately, but it is an away game weekend, and thus it may be better to just go ahead and have the first meeting.
Doesn't Edgar have a car too?
Doesn't Edgar have a car too?
JesusFreak
Smash Hero
Does anyone wanna play today?
MT_
Smash Ace
Yeah smash sucks. Who still plays that game anyway?
leprechaun
Smash Ace
WOW lots of random stuff haha
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
New Melee tier list, what do yall think?
MT_
Smash Ace
Jiggs sucks. King made a really good post somewhere concerning how people are taking the wrong approach against jiggs. When I have time I'll go find it lol. I think if people put their spacing game up to Hungrybox's and Mango's game then jiggs wouldn't win tournaments anymore.
But yea it's still pretty accurate and for a current then jiggs probably should be where she is right now.
I'm going to main Marth more than Fox now. Fox sucks.
But yea it's still pretty accurate and for a current then jiggs probably should be where she is right now.
I'm going to main Marth more than Fox now. Fox sucks.
Kal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 2,973
I'm pretty upset with the low-tier roster. Now I'm going to lose to ****ty DKs because Roy can't do ****. And Zelda above Roy? Really? And Luigi in low tier?
How about we just make the tier list:
Top: Fox, Falco, Puff,
High: Marth, Sheik
Low: everyone else
Since it seems 15 characters are now low tier. fml
How about we just make the tier list:
Top: Fox, Falco, Puff,
High: Marth, Sheik
Low: everyone else
Since it seems 15 characters are now low tier. fml
MT_
Smash Ace
Actually screw Marth.
Gengar.
Gengar.
Kal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 2,973
Also Matt, you're completely wrong in arguing that Jigglypuff is bad. She's a great character. Even (falsely) assuming we're all just playing terribly against her, she's at least 7th on the tier list. And that's a hyper-conservative placement. If it turns out that we're all just playing like ******* against her (which seems unlikely; M2K has fantastic spacing and still loses to Mango) then she's certainly at least 5th on the tier list.
MT_
Smash Ace
Well I was kinda exaggerating a lot when I said Jiggs is bad. I do think that she is better than Falcon/Peach area but I do not think that she is going to stay where she is on the new tier list for too long a period of time.
King's post that I referenced earlier: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10946145#post10946145
And I mean M2K has fantastic spacing but Mango's is simply better. I'm saying that if M2K's spacing was equal to Mango's or Hbox's, then he should be able to beat their Jiggs with other characters that have better speed/tools. Imagine a Marth with spacing as impeccable as Hbox's. There's like no way that any Jiggs is going to beat that, considering pretty much all of Marth's moves outrange Jiggs (even bair!).
King's post that I referenced earlier: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10946145#post10946145
And I mean M2K has fantastic spacing but Mango's is simply better. I'm saying that if M2K's spacing was equal to Mango's or Hbox's, then he should be able to beat their Jiggs with other characters that have better speed/tools. Imagine a Marth with spacing as impeccable as Hbox's. There's like no way that any Jiggs is going to beat that, considering pretty much all of Marth's moves outrange Jiggs (even bair!).
Kal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 2,973
While Marth may outrange Puff, she has much stronger aerial mobility. I wouldn't necessarily disagree that Marth beats Puff, but to argue that this somehow places her lower on the tier list is ridiculous.
Also, it's sort of a bull **** argument overall. "If those guys maining that character played him better than those guys maining that other character..."
It's a ridiculous assessment, really, to act as though M2K's spacing improving would cause him to suddenly never lose to Jigglypuff. And, as I mentioned, losing one matchup isn't enough to qualify her going down on the tier list.
Also, it's sort of a bull **** argument overall. "If those guys maining that character played him better than those guys maining that other character..."
It's a ridiculous assessment, really, to act as though M2K's spacing improving would cause him to suddenly never lose to Jigglypuff. And, as I mentioned, losing one matchup isn't enough to qualify her going down on the tier list.
MT_
Smash Ace
Well I think the reason Jiggs is top right now is because she (and she = Mango & Hbox) is winning matchups that I think are not actually in her favor. I think Jiggs has: a losing (if only a little) matchup to at least both Marth and Fox, an even-ish matchup to Falco, a slight edge over Sheik, and then she just beats everyone else.
I kinda feel like people just aren't exploiting the speed difference well enough between slow *** Jiggs lol. Anyways just my 2 cents... I do think that she is a really good character but I think she has very decisive weaknesses that just haven't been torn apart yet.
I kinda feel like people just aren't exploiting the speed difference well enough between slow *** Jiggs lol. Anyways just my 2 cents... I do think that she is a really good character but I think she has very decisive weaknesses that just haven't been torn apart yet.
BRLNK88
Smash Ace
Kal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 2,973
Matt, you've shown to have very little understanding of how Puff actually plays. She's not slow (her run speed is slow, but she has, by FAR, the strongest aerial game. Even Marth doesn't come close). You've described her match-ups with the top tier characters in basically the following way:
She doesn't lose to anyone, except Fox, and maybe Marth
and concluded that she should drop significantly. It's absolute nonsense. It's completely ****ing asinine. The worst thing is the actual logical structure of this argument that Puff is only winning tournaments because she's winning match-ups she should be losing; every single character who wins a tournament has to overcome that obstacle! If Falco has an advantage against Fox would you argue that Fox is only winning because he's winning match-ups he should be losing?
When a character who typically doesn't win starts winning, it's common to suspect a simple ignorance towards how to handle the match-up. However, Mango and Hungrybox have been consistently winning for a long time. If there were some simple strategy that would overcome this obstacle of losing your favored match-ups, it would have been discovered by now.
This isn't to suggest that things won't change. It's just not the case that a simple change-up in strategy or an improvement in spacing will suddenly force Jigglypuff out of first place.
She doesn't lose to anyone, except Fox, and maybe Marth
and concluded that she should drop significantly. It's absolute nonsense. It's completely ****ing asinine. The worst thing is the actual logical structure of this argument that Puff is only winning tournaments because she's winning match-ups she should be losing; every single character who wins a tournament has to overcome that obstacle! If Falco has an advantage against Fox would you argue that Fox is only winning because he's winning match-ups he should be losing?
When a character who typically doesn't win starts winning, it's common to suspect a simple ignorance towards how to handle the match-up. However, Mango and Hungrybox have been consistently winning for a long time. If there were some simple strategy that would overcome this obstacle of losing your favored match-ups, it would have been discovered by now.
This isn't to suggest that things won't change. It's just not the case that a simple change-up in strategy or an improvement in spacing will suddenly force Jigglypuff out of first place.
MT_
Smash Ace
You're missing the point. I think people are putting Jiggs too high because they're using tournament results for her too strongly. The reason why tournament results aren't that good of a representation for her tier placing is because Mango and Hungrybox are just better than everyone else and are able to exploit Jiggs to her full potential on all matchups.
If a change in strategy or improvement in spacing isn't going to hit Jiggs out of first place then there isn't really much else that is lol.
If a change in strategy or improvement in spacing isn't going to hit Jiggs out of first place then there isn't really much else that is lol.
reqy
Smash Journeyman
nobody wanting to play vs a puff already makes her top tier lol.
Noc
Smash Journeyman
Word. Jigglypuff should be in her own "gay tier."
Kal
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 2,973
Tier lists have always been strongly based on tournament results. It's nothing new. That, and your original argument wasn't really "they're using tournment results too strongly."
And I won't waste my time explaining why tournament results are essentially the only reasonable basis to form a tier list.
And I won't waste my time explaining why tournament results are essentially the only reasonable basis to form a tier list.
JOS.fm
Smash Journeyman
you're still missing the point. he only means that the tournament results used for jigg's ranking in the tier list is not representable of her tier. after all, it's not jiggs winning tourneys, it's just hbox.
I'd be surprised if there was a tourney with 3 jiggs placing top 10. that's why she's not top 4.
and you guys are confusing me with the whole match-up stuff. you won't be facing jiggs, you'll be facing mango or hbox, that's why you wouldn't win.
I'd be surprised if there was a tourney with 3 jiggs placing top 10. that's why she's not top 4.
and you guys are confusing me with the whole match-up stuff. you won't be facing jiggs, you'll be facing mango or hbox, that's why you wouldn't win.
Tirno
Smash Journeyman
I want to play. Anybody interested in smash tomorrow?
JesusFreak
Smash Hero
I am if I have time after studying. If not, I could play Monday if anyone's free after class.
MT_
Smash Ace
I'm down Edgar. Call me anytime.
Tirno
Smash Journeyman
Well, I'm awake, and I'm ready when you guys are. I got two CRTs, but only one Melee setup. Kal, I think you still have my memory card, too.
Edit: My phone number's in the first post, for those who don't have it.
Edit: My phone number's in the first post, for those who don't have it.
Shiameyo
Smash Rookie
Have two tests tomorrow so can't play, but anyone interested in playing sometime during the week (tuesday onward)?
El Queso Grande
Smash Rookie
I should be able to head over today in a bit Edgar; I'll bring my controllar. =]