Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[ranmaru]

More in a bit. Back to work.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Sorry guys. Work took over my life for a bit. Classes start tomorrow so everything is gonna get really hectic for me, unfortunately. Regardless, I will be here to post as often as I can. Moving on.

Ryu and then Gheb for me. Ryu is obvious, and Gheb was trying to mislynch me over Ryu and Dietz. It's grimy that Gheb tries to paint me as scum for one mistake and stretches it with a connection before seeing my flip. I think at this point we can solve it via PoE as well. JD and Gheb have been holding each other at a distance through out the whole game. I think town overall played subpar but scum played worse.

Gheb, why did you switch your order of Ran/Ryu?

I don't necessarily think scum has played that badly, because it took us until yesterDay just to get one, so I have to give them props for that, at least. But, what do you mean Gheb had been keeping JD at a distance? Why would a Ryu/Gheb/Dietz scum make sense, in your opinion?

Also, I'm not attacking right now but your results are just super convenient IMO. I realize that we had a roleblocker and that you say you got RB'd twice in a row, but why did you choose to investigate Kary last night instead of Ryu or Gheb? Either of them could have helped us with something, at least. Instead, you choose Kary who, IIRC, was a town read of yours? You said the same thing with a previous investigation of yours but I still don't see the logic.

Vote: Ranmaru

Ryu, at this point what is the purpose of this? You're still not doing anything but focusing Ran and, if you're not scum, you're giving them every opportunity to mislynch already (especially if we're still operating under the assumption of 3 scum).

Honestly, I do think that Ryu is the best target for toDay but if he is scum then I don't know what's going to happen toMorrow. YesterDay's fiasco with the voting makes me nervous because it doesn't really clear anybody as those things can be argued back and forth, and no matter what anybody says, to me there is no guarantee that there is/was a 3-man scum team, and there's no guarantee that scum didn't/wouldn't lynch a buddy; it's highly improbable, but the chance is still there. I want to say that everybody on JD is cleared but that's not necessarily the case. If they were then I'd say Ryu/Gheb but Ran's play has been... less than ideal IMO and then Chibo was only here for the hammer. I guess that's just me saying I don't know.

CT Chia - If you're around and able to post, who do you think scum would be?

~ Gheb ~ - In response to your tag, I honestly still don't see why you think Ran needs to die. I'll need to re-read, I guess, but while I concede there are some scummy things he has done I give him more credit than you do. What is your reaction to the events of the end of yesterDay? Why do you think Ryu is a better target now than Ran?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Sorry guys. Work took over my life for a bit. Classes start tomorrow so everything is gonna get really hectic for me, unfortunately. Regardless, I will be here to post as often as I can. Moving on.



I don't necessarily think scum has played that badly, because it took us until yesterDay just to get one, so I have to give them props for that, at least. But, what do you mean Gheb had been keeping JD at a distance? Why would a Ryu/Gheb/Dietz scum make sense, in your opinion?

Also, I'm not attacking right now but your results are just super convenient IMO. I realize that we had a roleblocker and that you say you got RB'd twice in a row, but why did you choose to investigate Kary last night instead of Ryu or Gheb? Either of them could have helped us with something, at least. Instead, you choose Kary who, IIRC, was a town read of yours? You said the same thing with a previous investigation of yours but I still don't see the logic.



Ryu, at this point what is the purpose of this? You're still not doing anything but focusing Ran and, if you're not scum, you're giving them every opportunity to mislynch already (especially if we're still operating under the assumption of 3 scum).

Honestly, I do think that Ryu is the best target for toDay but if he is scum then I don't know what's going to happen toMorrow. YesterDay's fiasco with the voting makes me nervous because it doesn't really clear anybody as those things can be argued back and forth, and no matter what anybody says, to me there is no guarantee that there is/was a 3-man scum team, and there's no guarantee that scum didn't/wouldn't lynch a buddy; it's highly improbable, but the chance is still there. I want to say that everybody on JD is cleared but that's not necessarily the case. If they were then I'd say Ryu/Gheb but Ran's play has been... less than ideal IMO and then Chibo was only here for the hammer. I guess that's just me saying I don't know.

CT Chia - If you're around and able to post, who do you think scum would be?

~ Gheb ~ - In response to your tag, I honestly still don't see why you think Ran needs to die. I'll need to re-read, I guess, but while I concede there are some scummy things he has done I give him more credit than you do. What is your reaction to the events of the end of yesterDay? Why do you think Ryu is a better target now than Ran?

Unvote

Sang I do not buy Ran right now. Chibo could be town but I would be basing this entirely on a gut reaction to how he posted and manned up to vote. Could be a bus given he had no chance to vote elsewhere but I am doubting it since he could have forced a stalement.

Ran has been playing super scummy in the past few days, why did he check Kary, one of the people who super pushed onto a Deitz direction. But not me, he strongest scum pick?

His vote on J is still unjustified and he never address his random switch onto J at all.

I'm between you and Chibo, leaning on you for the final scum. Gheb's only real thing I can recall giving me doubt is his push onto me, which has no real justification.

Give me something to why Ran is town, I don't buy his role and his last night target makes zero sense if he is telling the truth, hint: he's not.

 

[ranmaru]

Sang, these are the quotes that come at the top of my head:

I'm somewhat indifferent towards toDay's lynch choice. Mainly because there's a ****load of slots that I think can just ... die. Its basically Sang, Kary and Kantrip that I think have actually contributed enough to 'deserve' making it past toDay. Past that I honestly don't care much whether it's Adam, Koops, Rake, Maven, soup or Spak that goes. Chances are that I will just blatantly sheep whatever lynch actually turns out to be likely to happen.

What exactly is it that makes Dietz stand out as one of the slots that you wanna keep around?

Best example of Gheb playing extremely safe, which contrasts with his play yesterday and today. He also asks Kary about JD out of Kary's list of suspects. I thought he had something in mind, but not really.

I haven't really been paying a whole lot of attention to him tbh so I'd say it's the latter for now.

The latter being not townie. I don't see the point in asking if he doesn't suspect him or have any concerns.

Also, I call BS on anybody towenreading Dietz during Day 1. That slot has done virtually nothing that warrants pro-town credit. I actually BS on a lot of reads people threw out yesterDay, I will likely point them out when I consider it relevant.

This seems like distancing, he calls BS on others for having JD as town but doesn't ever actually push him, and instead pushes J.

I think asking J those questions is fine, I don't see why he's getting your ire for putting a vote behind it since they were getting ignored (as J admits). He's been Gheb otherwise, and there's a lot to Gheb about in this playerlist. We'll see.

His response to me about Gheb. He even questions my push on him. Yet:

We'll see what Gheb says about J then.

He never really addresses my Gheb case, but does address my Rake case. He never gets back to me on that, and instead focuses on pushing J.


---

So that is evidence of both JD and Gheb keeping each other at a distance. Gheb continues to keep JD at a distance, having him as a 3rd mafiaso but never first or second, which makes more sense since JD was the roleblocker, a mafia member scum would want to keep.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, I'm not attacking right now but your results are just super convenient IMO. I realize that we had a roleblocker and that you say you got RB'd twice in a row, but why did you choose to investigate Kary last night instead of Ryu or Gheb? Either of them could have helped us with something, at least. Instead, you choose Kary who, IIRC, was a town read of yours? You said the same thing with a previous investigation of yours but I still don't see the logic.

Simply because he was the obscure option. It is consistent with my target choices, because I would rather investigate a slot I'm not sure of then one that is more obvious. Targetting Ryu would not help because he's already very suspicious. I was wavering on Kary yesTerday, especially with his vote on me, and questioning of you and gheb but not ever pushing it. States he dislikes Gheb but then votes me. It's also odd his shot did not go off, and is something we should think about. There is nothing I can do about it. I just ask for you to consider my play along with that target. I'm sure if you re-read you won't find anything with scum intent, because I'm town. It's simple as that. If you have any other questions I can help clarify.

 

[ranmaru]

SangfroidWarrior

You still can't see why this slot needs to die? Just look at this, goddamned ...

The red comes across as forced. Seems like you want to come off as frustrated when my role has been blocked through out the majority of the game. Plus it's pretty weak, so you can't be mad about it at all.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ran, you clearly don't actually know how distancing' works. I don't know what else I can say at this point but all your points have precious little to do with the concept of distancing.

This seems like distancing, he calls BS on others for having JD as town but doesn't ever actually push him, and instead pushes J.

This one, for example, is quite the opposite of distancing which proves my point that you're just desperately clinging to whatever straw you can find at this point to get this lynch through [which, once again, is something you are accusing me of]. Dietz at that point was an obvious null read having not done anything of consequence and calling out people for giving him a free pass was only a natural thing to do. It doesn't really have anything to do with Dietz himself, so saying that I took a stance on him upon which I should've pushed him instead of J is a deliberate misinterpretation of the facts. I had not taken a stance on Dietz at that point, nor did I ever claim to have one. My point was, and that's really not hard to see, that other people shouldn't have a town read on him either because that's entirely unjustified. Now how you'd conclude that I should've pushed him based on the null-read I had on him ... it doesn't make sense unless you're agenda is to lynch me as opposed to find scum.

Oh and btw, voicing a null read on a slot is actually the complete opposite of what 'distancing' is all about. If a player you call null happens to flip scum at a later point you're pretty much destined to become the lightning rod for suspicion, regardless of alignment. If you want to distance yourself from somebody you have to start giving that slot **** way earlier than over the course of Day 3.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The last 2 quotes in your #1364 are also very selectively chosen. So what if Dietz didn't take harder stances on me? That means nothing. Dietz hasn't taken hard stances on anything [except OMGUSing Sang] for starters. And second, have you not considered the possibility that scum!Dietz perhaps simply didn't want to risk confronting town!Gheb head-on and get exposed in the process?

Because you know ... a townie who wants his faction to win this game kind of has to ... actually consider options and gauge how plausible they are. You on the other hand simply cherry-pick whatever you think works in your favor and then blindly charge ahead.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

SangfroidWarrior

re: what happened at the end of yesterDay ... I'll go into detail [possibly with quotes] later and also used that opportunity to lay out my thought process behind lynching Ryu toDay. I'm not really sure how that's particularly important but since you're the second player to ask I'll do you the favor.

I see you still haven't taken a side on Ran vs Gheb. Is that because you still think TvT is likely? Would I be right in assuming that you're looking at a Ryu / Chibo / Dietz team as the most likely scenario then? If so, is scum!Chibo entirely down to PoE or do you have anything else to say about him? From my pov toMorrow will be down to Ran vs Chibo and I'd appreciate any input on that matter and since Ran still seems to refuse taking Chibo into consideration you're the only one I can talk to at this point. Based on how Dietz interacted with you and how you managed to scrape together a majority to lynch Dietz toDay you're pretty much clear in my eyes too so I'm actually kind of counting on you quite a bit.

 

[CT Chia]

Just got back from Genesis late last night, saw that night is over, going to read up

 

[ranmaru]

<snip> since Ran still seems to refuse taking Chibo into consideration you're the only one I can talk to at this point.

How does this seem like refusing to take Chibo into consideration:

As I said, I am not hard town reading chibo, and am willing to re-consider him if he does not catch up. The only thing he has as a plus was the scum hammer. If you really have a problem with me 'not considering him over you', then you should be talking about that. Finally, I confidently scum read you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So regarding Chibo you're basically willing to continue waiting until X.

aka right now you're not taking the option of lynching him into consideration.

Good that we've cleared that one up.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Unvote

Sang I do not buy Ran right now. Chibo could be town but I would be basing this entirely on a gut reaction to how he posted and manned up to vote. Could be a bus given he had no chance to vote elsewhere but I am doubting it since he could have forced a stalement.

Ran has been playing super scummy in the past few days, why did he check Kary, one of the people who super pushed onto a Deitz direction. But not me, he strongest scum pick?

His vote on J is still unjustified and he never address his random switch onto J at all.

I'm between you and Chibo, leaning on you for the final scum. Gheb's only real thing I can recall giving me doubt is his push onto me, which has no real justification.

Give me something to why Ran is town, I don't buy his role and his last night target makes zero sense if he is telling the truth, hint: he's not.

So, you don't see that Gheb could be scum at all? And you're leaning on me being the final scum over Chibo? Why to both? What do you think of Ran's explanation as to why he investigated Kary instead of you? You seem pretty convinced that Ran is scum, and you're not really stating anything that hasn't already been hashed through or stated by other people. To me, I see Ran as town because he has been the player that most attempted to get people to interact with him and with each other. There are some questionable/scummy things that he has done but I still see him as more town than scum. Why do you not buy his role?

Simply because he was the obscure option. It is consistent with my target choices, because I would rather investigate a slot I'm not sure of then one that is more obvious. Targetting Ryu would not help because he's already very suspicious. I was wavering on Kary yesTerday, especially with his vote on me, and questioning of you and gheb but not ever pushing it. States he dislikes Gheb but then votes me. It's also odd his shot did not go off, and is something we should think about. There is nothing I can do about it. I just ask for you to consider my play along with that target. I'm sure if you re-read you won't find anything with scum intent, because I'm town. It's simple as that. If you have any other questions I can help clarify.

What do you mean "his shot did not go off"? Regardless, I guess that kind of makes sense, but I still don't really see it from a standpoint that is you trying to determine who is town and who is scum. Yours is just a flavor-type role, right? But still, I think it could have given us something.

SangfroidWarrior

re: what happened at the end of yesterDay ... I'll go into detail [possibly with quotes] later and also used that opportunity to lay out my thought process behind lynching Ryu toDay. I'm not really sure how that's particularly important but since you're the second player to ask I'll do you the favor.

I see you still haven't taken a side on Ran vs Gheb. Is that because you still think TvT is likely? Would I be right in assuming that you're looking at a Ryu / Chibo / Dietz team as the most likely scenario then? If so, is scum!Chibo entirely down to PoE or do you have anything else to say about him? From my pov toMorrow will be down to Ran vs Chibo and I'd appreciate any input on that matter and since Ran still seems to refuse taking Chibo into consideration you're the only one I can talk to at this point. Based on how Dietz interacted with you and how you managed to scrape together a majority to lynch Dietz toDay you're pretty much clear in my eyes too so I'm actually kind of counting on you quite a bit.

I'm asking about yesterDay because you weren't really here and I want to see a different perspective about what happened, especially considering the situation we might be in as a town. My stance on Ran vs Gheb is no longer TvT. I think it's likely that it's TvS, but I'm not sure which side I see more as scum. Just from my recollection, I'm more inclined to believe that it's you but I'm not sure. I'm not entirely convinced that Chibo could be scum because he did end up hammering yesterDay. I don't know why scum would do that, considering it lowers their chances of winning, unless it was an attempt to get more pro-town credit, especially if it is only a 2-man scum team. Even if it was, it would not be a smart move from scum, so consider that me thinking that Chibo is probably town.

What do you mean Ran is refusing to take Chibo into consideration?

 

[ranmaru]

What do you mean "his shot did not go off"? Regardless, I guess that kind of makes sense, but I still don't really see it from a standpoint that is you trying to determine who is town and who is scum. Yours is just a flavor-type role, right? But still, I think it could have given us something.

Kary said Ryu might be shot. Since it didn't work, it means someone interfered, or it's delayed. Or he's only 1 shot, or something having to do with 'adreneline'. It is trying to see who is town and who is scum. It's simply narrowing down the list of possible scum. I target outside of my scumlist (or to someone questionable) to catch scum with their pants down. I have done that once already in one game on mafia scum. In one game here I was experimenting as cop, and investigated people who I had made cases on, to have their reactions (and others, the important part here) to go along with the inspection. My role is just a flavor role, I expected more but only got a tidbit of information. (The name of the person's character)

I understand your point of view though.

 

[BarDulL]

No one is voting!

Deadline is set for 1/24/2016 at 11:59pm PST!

CT Chia has been prodded!​

 

[~ Gheb ~]

SangfroidWarrior

I'm not sure if there's anything specific you want me to talk about re: the ending stages of yesterDay so I'll just sum up some of my thoughts regarding Ryu and Ran ... perhaps that will help you understand a few things.

Honestly though, I'm not entirely sure what you want me to explain about my read on Ryu. His play was so blatant, he might as well could've just straight-up claim mafia at that point. Post 1293 for one ... I don't even know what to say about it. The defense of scum!Dietz, the soft distancing from Ran ... that post just have everything in it that you need to know. And at this point I have to reiterate that I absolutely have no ****ing clue how you could read Ran as town anymore. I mean Ryu literally exposed the entire scumteam in that one post, what more do you need to be convinced? Doesn't stuff like Post 1250 hammer my points home entirely? What do you think that is if not the most laughable distancing attempt ever?

If you read back yourself you may also notice that Ryu, despite being present, was the only player to not have his vote on a player. Why do you think is that? He could've gotten the Ran lynch so easily. All he would've had to do was to throw in a 3rd vote after Kary and I had dropped mine. With me being in a different timezone and Chibo being inactive he could have *********** all the other options available and make 100% sure that nobody except Ran gets lynched. But guess what, despite calling Ranmaru obvscum a bazillion times he never actually vote him when it mattered. Why did he not just take the opportunity to secure the lynch of his #1 scumread right on the spot?
I think it's fairly obvious that Ryu was banking on a no lynch and he just didn't see Chibo showing up out of nowhere coming [I mean, nobody really did at that point] because he also refused to vote Dietz ... aka his other scummate.


Regarding Ran ... just look at this succession of posts:
Post 1240 -> as soon as it comes down to a lynch he suddenly reconsiders his supposed #1 scumread on Ryu for a Gheb/Kary option. Where did this come from again?
Post 1243 -> here Ran seems pretty convinced that it's a Gheb / Kary / Ryu team that needs to be dealt with. He calls the odds of Dietz and / or Chibo being scum as 'being part of an alternative reality'.
Post 1245 -> Two posts later both Chibo and Dietz suddenly appear as part of his scumteam alongside Ryu but he doesn't actually count out scum!Gheb either?!?

He ends up voting Dietz because he apparently a Dietz / Chibo team was something he'd look out for. But now that Dietz flipped scum [!!!] Chibo suddenly went back to null. That's all normal to you? Ryu was the first to drop out of his scumpool when it came down to lynching somebody but now he wants us to believe that Ryu is his #1 slot. And despite that, Ran hasn't actually voted him when there was realistic chance to lynch him ... Kary + Sang + Ran + Chibo could've happened yesterDay and was no less likely than the Dietz lynch [which Ran also hesitated to actually join despite the fact that you and I had already established that lynching Dietz would be a good option]. His reads are just fake BS ... he keeps talking about how Ryu is the slot we need to lynch toDay yet all he actually does is blackballing whatever I post at every opportunity. I don't know how much clearer it can get that we're almost certainly dealing with a Dietz / Ryu / Ran team. Nothing else comes even close to make as much sense.

Also, I have to rub stuff your face again, Sang, but Ran never actually responded to Post 1135 either. That post still stands 100% and none of it has lost any relevance whatsoever. I don't know what it is that makes you question scum!Ran or why you'd consider lynching me a better option. I've been putting out my neck very far during the J lynch and from D2 onward I've basically worked my ass off to make sure this game doesn't go down the ****ter with all its inactivity and terrible play. There's no way that I can allow this game to be lost to scum!Ranmaru.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Tons of typos, poor wording and potentally confusing word choice ... hope that post is actually readable and makes some sense -.-

 

[ranmaru]

Will get to this after work.

 

[ranmaru]

The defense of scum!Dietz, the soft distancing from Ran ... that post just have everything in it that you need to know. And at this point I have to reiterate that I absolutely have no ****ing clue how you could read Ran as town anymore. I mean Ryu literally exposed the entire scumteam in that one post, what more do you need to be convinced?

Also, I have to rub stuff your face again, Sang, but Ran never actually responded to Post 1135 either. That post still stands 100% and none of it has lost any relevance whatsoever. I don't know what it is that makes you question scum!Ran or why you'd consider lynching me a better option. I've been putting out my neck very far during the J lynch and from D2 onward I've basically worked my *** off to make sure this game doesn't go down the ****ter with all its inactivity and terrible play. There's no way that I can allow this game to be lost to scum!Ranmaru.

Quickly addressing this while at lunch. First paragraph, you can't go on 'connections' before a flip. That's null and you know that, Gheb. Ryu has been harping on Soup when he had a wagon. Ryu was the fourth vote. When given a choice to budge to Rake, he didn't. Not that you care to remember. The only reason I may have been saved was because Joey claimed indy and voted himself.

Second paragraph, I never needed to address it. I already mentioned that focusing on one aspect of my play over my whole play was not a valid observation of my alignment. (I told this to Kary) That post you made was in response to Kary asking for 'my scummiest post'. That is definetly the opposite of considering a player's whole play to determine their alignment.

 

[ranmaru]

I'll be giving a reads list by Saturday, just so everyone can see where I stand.

Gheb, I do have one question. How does your theory of Ran + Ryu stack up against our interactions D1? Why have you only just NOW started focusing on that. Have you ever talked about Ryu or Me before then?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Of course I lost my saved post, sigh.

I'll have something tomorrow.

 

[ranmaru]

Gheb - Gheb. The most suspicious to me, yet I have seen him push hard for me in a previous game, when he was wrong. Yet there, he had more reason to consider my slot because I was playing badly. The only thing (outside of his play) that could make me not consider him is Chibo. I'm focusing on Ryu first, yet Chibo has no reason to continue lurking if he is town. What always makes me NOT consider him is Gheb misrepresenting me and my connection to Ryu. Finally, his last sentence, seems to spout from spite, and not actually considering my whole alignment. Seriously, how can one mistake, make him unconsider his 'highest' town read, in an instant, and keep tunneling there, without reconsidering? Each day, he's dropped a person, randomly. He dropped Koops when he found something better. He's trying to use his push on J as town credit, as 'sticking his neck out'. Why not stick his neck out D1? The more I talk about it, the more I convince myself. Yet the more I do not want to allow Chibo's play. The slot's been lurking through the whole game. So Gheb, if you are town, stop being stubborn and tunneling on me. Again, think about why I would make a switch BETWEEN TWO TOWN SLOTS. Why would I EAGERLY throw away town cred and have to fight from a lower position again? Again, your Ran + Ryu reasoning is whack, awaken to the truth. If you can't see it, we lose anyway. I just want to say all of your reactions to me makes me hard to trust you. Yet I'm trying hard to reconsider you. Gheb, do you even re-read? Because I think you need to. The man you must try your hardest not to tunnel, is me. Bro. If you REALLY want to talk, I will talk.

I seriously ask you what you think of D1 interactions of Soup/Ryu as well. Do you REALLY think that's scum v scum? I just think it's Ryu trying to lynch my slot, and then not being able to because I showed my town. He had nothing and had to back off. He was very persistent, even saying 'to be frank' twice. (When talking about my play) And now he is focusing on my j switch and that's it.

Chibo - I have talked about him above. Deliberately lurking through out the game. Gheb shows more motivation (whatever that may be) than Chibo does. Again, I remember him viewing but only posting AFTER J's flip, to mention he just missed it. Why would he do that? For appearance. He's a veteran player, he knows how to play and can play but has not felt the need to here. Town would not do this so blatantly. Scum would if they felt very comfortable. His slot has never been pressured. He possibly felt like he had a great amount of town cred from his hammer but his inactivity is more telling.

Ryu - I think it's obvious at this point. Really, Ryu's been doing NOTHING but focus on me with empty words and empty pushes. Then when he was forced to, had pushed Koops in the same empty manner. Then every time he states Sang is the third scum to him, for no reason. His Gheb read is flimsy too.

Sang - I only had the concern that she was wishy washy. I also considered her opening on D2 concerning but her response was very townie to me. She stated my actions were scummy but that they had no scum intent. She's considering the whole picture. Besides that, she's come across as townie the entire game. Her activity and pressure on others really gave the thread some presence.

So:

Ryu > Chibo > Gheb > Sang > I'm town.

 

[ranmaru]

Mod: There will be a blizzard watch in my area this weekend, so keep that in mind please

(In philadelphia)

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I feel like I only ever start posts with apologizing, but yeah. Sorry guys. I'm in the same boat as Ran with there being a blizzard this weekend, and with my job I'm kind of expected to be out working during it, which might take up a lot of time, unfortunately. Power is likely to go out in my area this weekend, but we're hoping that doesn't happen. But, I also just realized that deadline is in about 24 hours-ish, so I think we should get together who we are lynching soon and maybe figure out a game-plan for toMorrow.

Anyway, Ran, you think that Chibo is more likely to be scum even though he hammered on scum when he could have forced a NL? Even over Gheb? (Having this null slot is killer ;-;

If you read back yourself you may also notice that Ryu, despite being present, was the only player to not have his vote on a player. Why do you think is that? He could've gotten the Ran lynch so easily. All he would've had to do was to throw in a 3rd vote after Kary and I had dropped mine. With me being in a different timezone and Chibo being inactive he could have *********** all the other options available and make 100% sure that nobody except Ran gets lynched. But guess what, despite calling Ranmaru obvscum a bazillion times he never actually vote him when it mattered. Why did he not just take the opportunity to secure the lynch of his #1 scumread right on the spot?
I think it's fairly obvious that Ryu was banking on a no lynch and he just didn't see Chibo showing up out of nowhere coming [I mean, nobody really did at that point] because he also refused to vote Dietz ... aka his other scummate.

I don't know if I fully understand this part, especially if you're asking me to consider a Dietz/Ryu/Ran scum team. I definitely see this as a reason that Ryu would be scum, but how do you say this and then say that Ran is scum when we lynched scum yesterDay?

Also, I thank you for explaining your reads and thought process and everything. I do understand where you're coming from with a lot of your points, but I hope you understand what position I'm sort of in in trying to make sure that I am making the right decision and fully understanding this game. My main problem is that I can see you both being scum at the same time that I can see you both being town (if that makes sense). To be fair, I'm unsure how much of that is me being unable to think about things objectively or to see the big picture. If we lynch correctly and still have toMorrow, I want to re-read throughout the Night and come in toMorrow with everything fresh in my mind and, ideally, all worked through. I will try to respond more tomorrow to this, but with the storm I'm not sure how much I can promise. Sorry. I will try, though, just in case.

 

[ranmaru]

Chibo's activity speaks volumes about his motivation and alignment. The hammer did net him pro-town points, yet that is not enough. Unless he is still in genesis but I do not see how that can limit him as Bard can post. Why not post in a game that you love the flavor?

 

[ranmaru]

He could have lurked off and let it happen. If it could lead to a mafia victory, big town points. Yet, that is also unsafe play. Its risky and can out the mafia, doing what he did would give him town points and no consideration at all. Yet it could also be bad for him if he let him live, knowing there may be a vigilante. It could burn him and Ryu, if JD flipped during the night.

Only thing I can think of. Or, possible useless town in lylo that does not even try... Koops did that, but I would not expect Chibo to do that.

Thoughts?

 

[ranmaru]

Also, storm got worse. Just so you guys know. Windy and more snowing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So Gheb, if you are town, stop being stubborn and tunneling on me.

Tell me you're trolling, Ran.

Please tell me you are.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

He could have lurked off and let it happen. If it could lead to a mafia victory, big town points. Yet, that is also unsafe play. Its risky and can out the mafia, doing what he did would give him town points and no consideration at all. Yet it could also be bad for him if he let him live, knowing there may be a vigilante. It could burn him and Ryu, if JD flipped during the night.

Only thing I can think of. Or, possible useless town in lylo that does not even try... Koops did that, but I would not expect Chibo to do that.

Thoughts?

So, basically, even though you've been pushing Gheb!scum this entire time, you are now saying that somebody that has been inactive throughout the entire game is more likely to be scum? I'm having a difficult time seeing that logic. Honestly, I would just say that he's a question to me, but a question is not somebody that I'm comfortable lynching right now. If he's scum, I would think that he would see that this is scummy behavior that puts him at risk, and so he would be back. But the same thing could be said of him being town. Why would scum lurk knowing that they might get lynched like JD did? Why would town?

Side, note, have Ryu and/or Chibo actually been here recently?

Also, I think I got the time wrong. We have a little over 24 hours right now, I think.

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo's activity speaks volumes about his motivation and alignment. The hammer did net him pro-town points, yet that is not enough. Unless he is still in genesis but I do not see how that can limit him as Bard can post. Why not post in a game that you love the flavor?

How does my activity speak volumes to my alignment? With the way you're saying it here, it seems like you consider it more a scumtell, which I don't see how.

I love the flavor which was my original drawing power to joining this game, but stuff just keeps happening lol.

Deadline is today, I'm gonna figure out what to do. Surprised no one is voting yet.

 

[CT Chia]

Oh deadline is tomorrow, I thought it was tonight

 

[CT Chia]

If you read back yourself you may also notice that Ryu, despite being present, was the only player to not have his vote on a player. Why do you think is that? He could've gotten the Ran lynch so easily. All he would've had to do was to throw in a 3rd vote after Kary and I had dropped mine. With me being in a different timezone and Chibo being inactive he could have *********** all the other options available and make 100% sure that nobody except Ran gets lynched. But guess what, despite calling Ranmaru obvscum a bazillion times he never actually vote him when it mattered. Why did he not just take the opportunity to secure the lynch of his #1 scumread right on the spot?
I think it's fairly obvious that Ryu was banking on a no lynch and he just didn't see Chibo showing up out of nowhere coming [I mean, nobody really did at that point] because he also refused to vote Dietz ... aka his other scummate.

This is probably the best post to a lead we have imo. I agree with this line of thought.

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Chibo, nobody is voting because things could lead to a mislynch really quick. So, out of myself, Ryu, Gheb, and Ran, you consider Ran to be the scummiest? Why else are you voting Ran? Why is what gheb said more telling on Ran than Ryu?

 

[ranmaru]

So, basically, even though you've been pushing Gheb!scum this entire time, you are now saying that somebody that has been inactive throughout the entire game is more likely to be scum? I'm having a difficult time seeing that logic. Honestly, I would just say that he's a question to me, but a question is not somebody that I'm comfortable lynching right now. If he's scum, I would think that he would see that this is scummy behavior that puts him at risk, and so he would be back. But the same thing could be said of him being town. Why would scum lurk knowing that they might get lynched like JD did? Why would town?.

I'm still for Ryu toDay. Yes I have been pushing Gheb all this time but Chibo is a question mark we have to consider and I wanted to talk about it. I was thinking that as scum, he would not be worried since his hammer would = very not likely scum. Yet his inactivity, shows that he may not care to find scum as much and sees there is enough fighting in town that he wouldn't need to participate. As town, why would he slack SO much. *Stuff keeps happening* I was busy yet I found the time to post some thoughts, and so had you. So, I'm not saying lynch him right now, but we shouldn't give him a pass. It feels like you are ignoring him and keeping him at null, hoping he's just inactive town. But we should *consider* him first before moving on.

 

[ranmaru]

I love the flavor which was my original drawing power to joining this game, but stuff just keeps happening lol.

What stuff happened to keep you from responding to your prod? I understand you are busy, we all are. Yet here we are trying. At least tell us what's been happening. Give us some reads.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Ran, I guess my problem is that I am having a hard time considering him at all as, to me, basically every argument against him being town could be used as an argument against him being scum. But, I think you are right that I'm not sure why he would continue to do so if he were town. It's definitely really fishy. And then, I definitely get a bad vibe from his most recent posts, but... idk. This sucks. What do you think of his vote?

 

[ranmaru]

I get the feeling he isn't reading thoroughly. That's all I'll say so far. I want to see more of his thoughts (reads) before I can judge him on content. I think you are saying it's possible he can be lazy town, but some of his actions seem to come with a survival instinct.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This is probably the best post to a lead we have imo. I agree with this line of thought.

Vote: Ranmaru

... we're lynching Ryu toDay fyi

 

[~ Gheb ~]

How hard are people affected by the snowstorm btw? Afaik Chibo, Sang and Ran all live in the Atl.-North area. Can we get a deadline extension of some sort?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote: Ryu

In case we're not getting a deadline extension.