Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[ranmaru]

Yo JD. Talk to me. This thread is moving slow.

Thoughts on the J wagon? Thoughts on my Rake Case?

 

[Jdietz43]

Koopa is below ran and J for me. I don't agree with these town reads on J at all especially after his approach to me and just his approah to his reads in general. His new attitude to me today reeks because it literally seems he's unwilling to commit to me because im not a popoular wagon anymore. he was so dead set on me yesterday and yet today it looks like he's basically handwaving himself off that pressure, not sure how you're okay with that either so color me suspicious of your read on him as well

So Ran above J above Koopa I take it then?

Do you still think Koops is scum, or is that all old news now?

(I don't believe I've ever commented on J except for that I'm good with Gheb asking questions of him. At least not toDay.)

In that case, do you think we should avoid flavor-claiming until MyLo?

Well at the very least, I wouldn't ask for a mass-claim until then. Mostly, I see no reason to out a potential clear before it's necessary.

Jdietz43 who is scum besides Rake?

Based on how many people are actually interacting I'm thinking theres a good chance at least one is inactive. I'm hoping Glyph replacing, some Ryu content to read, and Koopa hopefully coming in or being replaced/modkilled clears up the rest of the field.

J is picking up steam though, and I want to know why (one way or the other). Yet to read, but I'm hoping that sheds light too.

don't see the Ranmaru replace as scum coming in so far so I'll probably also have to re-read Soup's opinions, Gheb isn't a push I'd expect someone phoning it in to make at the very least.

 

[Jdietz43]

Yo JD. Talk to me. This thread is moving slow.

Thoughts on the J wagon? Thoughts on my Rake Case?

I'll have to read your take on the case first for that, hitting the @'s to start

As for J, I'd like to re-read his D1 before I quip for real, but it would help enormously if J would respond to Gheb's points.
The fact the last post I can see at a glance was a "I'll get to it, definitely tonight" instead of "I'm busy" doesn't bode well.

*waves at Ghebberoo*

Seems you've got me though at least haha. I can keep you entertained at least till Sunday night. I'm just busy with other activities today, but i'll sit down and discuss things with you in a while. Definitely tonight though.

 

[Jdietz43]

BarDulL Prods on @TheKingofKoopas ?

Okay I finished my re-read. I'll get to you in a second Gheb along with other thoughts I'm having.

Also "ignored" is a harsh word. Moreso "glossed over and forgot" would be a better way to put what actually happened.

You finished the re-read you started in #647 yeah?

As far as I can tell from that post, this is the the relevant part of where your head was:

Rake/Koopy/Gheb hold weird things from me for the beginning of the game and I would say Ditzy lost a view points on a Kanty town-flip but not enough to make me more him from my town-lean pile. Just lower on that totem pole.

I need to continue reading because this is when Kary begins picking up conversation and she was in my pile of "can die" yesterDay and based on my gut on Joey being correct I will want to continue looking at this pile of Kary/Rake/Gheb because I feel I am onto something here.

Talk to me about it, Rake/Koopa isn't a scumteam. Is this scumGheb voting you?

 

[Jdietz43]

( ranmaru : Rake case is about right. A lot of fuss over Koopa, then the claim. You're leaving out the request to get everyone to flavorclaim after Joey's flavor info claim and flip though, IMO the timing of that was grody and is a big part of why he's still relevant to me now.)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Can you elaborate on what points you like? Thoughts on the J wagon Ryu?

From you or Gheb?

Why are people wagoning J?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think the people on J are scum so there is that, otherwise why does he have a wagon?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

(Posting from my phone, and away from a comp for a bit but I will try this way; mostly just gonna be responses til I can do more)

Good stuff, and I hope you have a second monitor to help you write in one section and view with the other

That's a really good idea, and I need to get one. Unfortunately, it was just my laptop screen. I'm used to it tho.

Joey explicitly told us Chara is town

Did he? From what I remember, he said he wasn't but that his partner was?

Sang, this is garbage.

Yes, I am reading through the thread and bringing up things that I don't like, and asking questions. How is that scummy?
I explained why I voted Koops in #513, and I justify my J vote in #686.

What I mean is that you're pulling out things that don't actually have all that much relevance, and/or taking them out of context, at least from the things that I saw. And, I didn't see those. I'll look at them in a bit. Thanks for letting me know.

I am the person who brought up the level of inactivity, yes- but what do you expect me to do about it? I cannot make other people post, and I have been as active as I can be.

The thing is you kept bringing it up but you weren't really actively trying to get people to participate, like talking or asking questions. Though, I understand the difficulty with that, which is why I added that near the end.

Let's talk.

About? I want to go more into your Rake post but I can't really, at the moment (because phone -_-). I will say that I more or less agree with many of your points, but there's some that I have a hard time seeing how it's specifically scummy. I think that's why I'm so wishy washy on Rake.

The thought process is not very complicated: I felt it was unusual that Kantrip & J had a fight in the early game, but no-one came out of it as a candidate for lynch. Usually when there's an argument in RVS, someone comes out looking the scummier one. You could say I had a 'gut feeling' that someone in that bunch was scum.

Okay, that makes sense. I think I was more or less meaning to ask if that view has changed any or if you were planning on doing anything with it toDay, but unless you have anything specific we don't have to go into that right now.

 

[ranmaru]

Talk to me about the J wagon, and Ryu on this page and last page. Should be a good start since you are on phone.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

The J wagon I have no clue about. As in, I have no clue as to why people are actually wagoning him. It seems that a lot of it started out as pressure, but with a side of some reasoning. I'm going to have to re-read but nothing from J is making me think he's really scum at the moment. Like, I get that he has been ignoring/glossing over some questions and stuff (one or two of mine included), but I don't see how that is specifically scummy. It's also concerning considering some of the people on J are some of my scum reads.

I'm starting to like Ryu a bit more, since he's no longer just hard focusing "Soup" and not looking at anybody else. I'm basing most of my view from pg 19 since there hasn't been much else, but I'm liking it so far.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't get the J wagon either and I feel it's full of air. I'm starting to wonder about Ryu. I feel he's too lenient on Rake, when Rake did the exact same things as Soup. Rake even copied Soup and said that he'd 'replace out' and then retracted it. Yet nothing from Ryu. Plus, I get the same feeling from Rake here as I did from FEA, and I wonder why Ryu does not see that.

 

[Spak]

BarDulL Prods on @TheKingofKoopas ?

@TheKingofKoopas has been prodded!​

 

[Spak]

Formatting worked. I'm so happy.

Anyways, off to bed in a few. Any last questions before I head off to Dreamland?

 

[ranmaru]

Same thing to you, thoughts on J's wagon and Red Ryu on this page and last page, if I haven't asked you already.

 

[Spak]

I think that J's wagon is garbage; it consists of an unexplained vote via Rake, a vote from Gheb because J failed to respond to something last phase, and a vote from Kary that has no stated reason (unless he has stated a reason since the vote)? I think Gheb's might be justified because he has a legit question that has gone unanswered for quite a long time, but other than that, I don't see much reason that J is being wagoned so hard right now. I've liked Ryu more now that he's come out of the tunnel of Soup, and think he could be very useful to town as the game continues on.

 

[ranmaru]

Alright thanks.

#HBC | J : Where you at. I would like your thoughts on current events and Rake toDay.
@DtJ Glyphmoney: I want to see you catch up and give reads. If not, proxy your vote to me.
@TheKingofKoopas: You said you were reading. How's that going, and what are your reads currently?

Two of these slots I am null on and need more from. I like J but am interested in his response/thoughts to/of his wagoners, even while said wagon is pretty whack.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You guys are the worst, seriously.

 

[Spak]

You guys are the worst, seriously.

Why?

 

[ranmaru]

I just want to mention Koops viewed last night without responding.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why?

Because you all seem to think my case on J is about him ignoring my questions.

If you can't read simple posts how do you plan to ever learn reading intent? Seriously, none of you is in a position to call the J "wagon" garbage when you don't even understand what's happening. This, sadly enough and to my surprise, includes SangfroidWarrior who straight up claims to have no idea what the wagon is about. My #752 is pretty self-explanatory. There's no way anybody would be confused about the push on J if he actually read it.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Touche, but I don't see a reason for him to randomly lie while giving up. Does not seem like something Joey would do.

You literally asked thread if you could get everyone to flavorclaim?
I think that counts as flavor fishing.

i asked how people felt about a flavor claim man

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also ran, me and Orbo hydra'd in FEA, and I can tell you straight up that our scum meta together is highly different than ours is individually. Literally the only shared factor is how much i post as scum and try to look townie and do townie things and i can assure you that as scum there would have never been a wagon on me to have, I am way too much of a control freak as scum and if you think im manipulating this game then I just don't know how to respond to that. Sayiong i copied scum is a huge cop out because your slot replaced soup and soup in fact carried through and did replace out, so you've effectively called your own slot scummy lmao.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

As for JD, I'll say again, I asked how people felt about it because it's a point worth discussing, so maybe read that part instead of beating the drum that I was insisting on it like i have some sort of strangle hold on the thread thats just gonna make it happen.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I really intently dislike how Ran is pigeonholing Ryu by basically having a read on him that boils down to "ryu doesn't see what i do. he doesn't see the rake hate, so i don't like him either" Like, ryu's explicitly stated he's working through reading me on his own and this is the only slot Ran isn't jumping down the throat of for this. You don't see him chasing down Sang for not having ascum read on me or even J who deserves to be chased down for his read and attitude towards me

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Based on how many people are actually interacting I'm thinking theres a good chance at least one is inactive. I'm hoping Glyph replacing, some Ryu content to read, and Koopa hopefully coming in or being replaced/modkilled clears up the rest of the field.

J is picking up steam though, and I want to know why (one way or the other). Yet to read, but I'm hoping that sheds light too.

don't see the Ranmaru replace as scum coming in so far so I'll probably also have to re-read Soup's opinions, Gheb isn't a push I'd expect someone phoning it in to make at the very least.

Seriously? Your best guess for who is scum after Rake is 'someone inactive?'

Consider me unimpressed.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Just let J speak for himself. This should not be difficult.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

You guys are the worst, seriously.

Lol okay.

Because you all seem to think my case on J is about him ignoring my questions.

If you can't read simple posts how do you plan to ever learn reading intent? Seriously, none of you is in a position to call the J "wagon" garbage when you don't even understand what's happening. This, sadly enough and to my surprise, includes SangfroidWarrior who straight up claims to have no idea what the wagon is about. My #752 is pretty self-explanatory. There's no way anybody would be confused about the push on J if he actually read it.

I don't think it's all about him ignoring questions, but it just seems like it started as that, and that the other stuff was added afterwards. I will be honest and say that I was mostly skimming through these last pages or so since I haven't been by a computer and therefore I have a hard time reading through things. As I said, I will have to re-read, because I recall having some questions for you about that that I want clarified.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

why is it a bad argument? Your top scumread (Ran) is someone who let you live yesterDay?

You seem to be doing the bare minimum this game and I don't like it.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I... I goofed, I think. I don't actually remember ever reading your 752 (or even seeing it, really), which means I am a dumb. I'm definitely going to have to read through this tonight, as I missed at least one major thing and probably missed others.

After actually reading it, I do have a better understanding of the J wagon, and some of those things do make sense as to why J might be scum. A lot of these things do seem explainable, but it's also a problem that J could have explained them more when they were relevant/actually occurring. I would still like some explanation from J, but I will reconsider my read of him in the meantime.

Also, ~ Gheb ~ thanks for answering my question in 751, if I didn't say that already. I think that's why I do have a more null read on him, but there may be some things that other people see as more town from him. Do you think that Dietz is scummy, or just lacking pro-town posts?

Throughout the whole Day J kept stressing that Rake > Koops as our lynch in spite of him claiming that people who attacked Spak are scumspects. Note how he townclears Spak based entirely on his meta but when Rake plays to his meta like he did on Day 1 it's enough to make him the #1 scumspect?

From your post, it seems like his reads are somewhat focused around people who think that Spak is scum. How do you think that this relates to his play/reads from yesterDay into toDay? Do you think, if J flips scum, that there is a connection between him and Spak? Also, what is your current read of Spak? (If you've already answered, let me know/point me to it; if you don't want to answer right now, that's fine too)

 

[Spak]

Also, what is your current read of Spak? (If you've already answered, let me know/point me to it; if you don't want to answer right now, that's fine too)

My reads on Rake/Koops and to a lesser extent Spak kind of depend on how I read J

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't really think Spak is scum though his play is certainly nothing I'd call particularly pro-town. Even if he were right about Kary he's not approaching the whole thing in a constructive manner. I'm really conflicted on how to handle him though. On the one hand I'd love to just throw meta out of the window and lynch him for his .... really scummy play. On the other hand I can already see people making a big fuss about it because meta is the flavor of the year in dGames and the trouble having to deal with all the bull**** that will come up is probably not worth it for a slot I don't know how to feel about myself. I can't give you a more concise describtion than that ... he's simultaneously town, null and scum in my eyes right now.

Dietz hasn't done anything pro-town and at this point I'm inclined to hold it against him. I understand that not everybody has the same amount of dedication / time / whatever to invest into a game but at a certain point I expect people to have made some worthwhile contributions. I really can't see where Dietz did that. If this game were more active and people started to play a bit better then we'd probably be looking into the option of lynching him a bit more seriously by now but as things stand ... I'm like the only who's posting stuff that's really of any consequence. Gotta give Ran credit for trying though but yeah. There really isn't anything going on at the moment.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't get the J wagon either and I feel it's full of air. I'm starting to wonder about Ryu. I feel he's too lenient on Rake, when Rake did the exact same things as Soup. Rake even copied Soup and said that he'd 'replace out' and then retracted it. Yet nothing from Ryu. Plus, I get the same feeling from Rake here as I did from FEA, and I wonder why Ryu does not see that.

Apples and Oranges.

They didn't react the same nor in the same situation or circumstances.

Soup's was unwarrented and grimy, Rake had more reasonable circumstances.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

As for JD, I'll say again, I asked how people felt about it because it's a point worth discussing, so maybe read that part instead of beating the drum that I was insisting on it like i have some sort of strangle hold on the thread thats just gonna make it happen.

Let's chat.

Who are your main scum picks, because I want to be clear where your head is at and why.

Tell me about the J wagon, I like the people who are on it but I just don't understand it until Gheb posted a little bit more that gave me something on it. What do you think of them and that wagon right now?

I'm more ok with Ran now, why aren't you ok with him right now?

 

[ranmaru]

~ Gheb ~ : I can agree that giving a blanket statement is concerning, it's a problem. Yet, it doesn't invalidate Rake's actions as a slot and I am curious why you are relying on your reads to derive from your J read. I'm looking at everyone individually. My read on you doesn't come from Rake, it comes from yourself. Plus, J has been voting Kary (albeit for gut reasons?), although I am not sure if he listed you as a suspect D1. I also think your constant attempts to antagonize Spak didn't seem to be helpful. Can you tell me why you 'called him out' that many times?

@ASC | Red Ryu：I'm not seeing that. Right now, Rake is doing the same thing he has been doing in FEA. He's currently adding more reasons to scum read me out of no where, kicking mud at me just as he did in FEA. Plus, you and I were arguing over obv scum Dabuz, and I was right on him. If you're town, at least consider what I'm saying. Please go more into your Gheb read though and tell my why you disagree with my Gheb case. You say you have town meta of Rake, please deliver as well.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ran let me talk to him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I also think your constant attempts to antagonize Spak didn't seem to be helpful. Can you tell me why you 'called him out' that many times?

Because he continued to not accept the flaws in his arguments? I don't wanna say he derailed the thread, that would be stretching it, but he definitely could've spent the time he wasted on making poor arguments on Kary doing more constructive stuff. I mean, what else has he really done except tunnel him? Even at times where it was painfully obvious that Kary wasn't a play?

 

[#HBC | J]

Hey y'all! Sorry I really should have declared V/LA since I had been hanging out with friends and binging video games/tv shows and just not like at all near my laptop so I apologize for that. I'm responding to things this very second and going to try and look at some parts of my wagon that seems to be the most popular thing at the moment.

Kay, I'll be around so hit me up and I'll be combing through the 20+ notifications this game has left me with haha.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I don't really think Spak is scum though his play is certainly nothing I'd call particularly pro-town. Even if he were right about Kary he's not approaching the whole thing in a constructive manner. I'm really conflicted on how to handle him though. On the one hand I'd love to just throw meta out of the window and lynch him for his .... really scummy play. On the other hand I can already see people making a big fuss about it because meta is the flavor of the year in dGames and the trouble having to deal with all the bull**** that will come up is probably not worth it for a slot I don't know how to feel about myself. I can't give you a more concise describtion than that ... he's simultaneously town, null and scum in my eyes right now.

If you were just to completely throw meta out of the window, would you lynch him? Imagine you're in the position of somebody like me, who has hardly any experience playing with anybody in this game to any real extent (and who dislikes meta in general). What do you see from him that is scummy, then? Is it enough to lynch him or just reason to pressure him more?

 

[#HBC | J]

Who is Spak getting "flak" from and why does it have to be scum who'd do that? I have called out Spak because he brought up the whole Kary's church thing out of nowhere. Is that part of the "flak" you are talking about?

Well Sparky has been receiving flak from a lot of slots this game that much is clear and it's from the opposite side of the fence I stand with on most issues which has been the party of you/Kary/Rake/Joey and Joey was scum so I'm chalking that up to a correct statement on the scummies. I should have been more clear. The people who have been giving me bad vibes throughout the game also seem to be the ones who are looking at Sparky (when this post was made) and creating unnecessary comments of derision towards his slot. You continue to semi-berate the slot saying that he should focus on things that don't pertain to what you deem as "useless" and talk about other things. At the time, the flak I was describing was unnecessary comments and also ways to try and make Sparky look worse.

I read his post the complete opposite way based on his intentions and that is where I felt he was actually coming across as harder town when everyone else was claiming for his head. However, I let the situation continue on without saying much besides that post you quotes so I would not taint the papertrail. It led me to like Ryu more since he came in having a similar train of thought as well and said the Sparky look was meh. It also kept me firm in my believes that there is scum in the pile of Rake/Kary/Gheb which is something I have been on all game almost now especially with my added affirmation with a Joey flip still feel passionate about. The Sparky debacle is something I have been watching a reading because the more he posts the stronger I am in my Sparky town-read and I feel the early attempts to make him look worse are that of scum intentions in the pile of you/Kary/Rake.

You say I need to have better reads in this post, but I would actually urge you to have better reads especially considering your #1 scum-read is me which is based on qualms that I would expect a player of your level to not be making. It's a flimsy case and argument, but I will respond to them for you to help garner information from this push. Regardless, I would urge you to re-evaluate your standings on quite a few issues in the thread because all it is doing is making me more and more okay with you leaving the game via lynch.

 

[#HBC | J]

If you were just to completely throw meta out of the window, would you lynch him? Imagine you're in the position of somebody like me, who has hardly any experience playing with anybody in this game to any real extent (and who dislikes meta in general). What do you see from him that is scummy, then? Is it enough to lynch him or just reason to pressure him more?

Interjecting myself here, but earlier you stated that you could actually see something from Gheb's case as a valid concern to hold me as scum? Can you talk more about that because I feel your fence-sitty playing is really starting to irk me that whenever you see a side you just are fine to be on both sides and re-evaluate everything. You have been doing this with me all game and then there is your Rake read where now you are like "okay, I could see town." and then with Kary you say she is your strongest scum-read, but you don't vote her and you actually seem to back down when she presses you on the issue which is somewhat fair because Kary is extremely brash when pushed, but at the same time you aren't sticking to your guns that much.

Why have you not voted on of your "scum-reads" in terms of Kary/Koopy/Gheb? Why haven't you been pushing any slot really in terms of scum-reads and just playing the analytical side-bar game that is really starting to make me question if your reads are real?