Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[#HBC | J]

What.

Like, what are even you talking about? What's wrong with Joey and Kary being on soup? What is wrong with specifically them two being on soup? Is Kantrip / Ryu being on them OK? What's wrong with people voting Koops? That post sucks on so many levels tbh.

This...is actually pretty self-explanatory. With Joey and Kary being on SoupMaru, I had them as scum-reads and especially after Joey flips my gut was founded. I also do not like anything Kary has done this game and she has shown no real reason for me to believe they are town. This is confirmation bias, but Kanty and Ryu were okay in my eyes being on them because I liked Kanty and Ryu and had them as town-leans at the time which I stated.

The people who were voting Koopy at the time were you/Kary/Rake, do you see the problem there?

These questions could have been answered, tbqh, with just reading my reads and I'm scratching my head at the importance of these points to your scum-read on me when they could have been answered really easily and it makes me even more "..." when you, as a player, find repeating yourself asinine and not helpful to the state of the thread when the information was clear and there.

 

[#HBC | J]

Changing your avatar to my literal MCM, Sang, will not make me look away from you. In fact, it will do the opposite you sly woman you.

That's just unfair!

 

[#HBC | J]

ranmaru who is your #2 pick for scum after Gheb?

@ASC | Red Ryu who is your #2 pick for scum after Ranmaru? With reasoning please.

Just to clarify my point about Rake above, what I am trying to say is that I think the waggon was interesting. I don't have my notes with me, but yeah, look at the waggon.

Also, IIRC, Kantrip posted a reads list before he died. That's also something worth looking into.

Ok, I'm out for now.

Vote: J

You can't write how you are finding me scummy for not explaining my vote or suspicions when you have not done so when you vote me as well. That's just hypocritical haha. You are hiding this game, Kary, and I feel it's because you are scum. You have not explained damn near any vote this game and you say that you are voting me because I am "obv-scum suspicious and not responding to things", but how is not responding to things scummy? (that can go to everyone actually haha. Considering my track record with this game, I have been responding to everything when I actually get into the thread.) How have my pushes been scummy? If you use the explanation "Because you haven't explained" then you should be voting yourself and Rake in the same light. I also find this amusing that you are voting me with such chagrin as if you have this nailed, yet there is no paper-work, there is no reasons besides "I don't like J this game!" which is a bore to analyze and let's continue on with the fact that you have just been hiding behind Gheb and following nearly everything he has done.

You and Rake have voted me after Gheb has and the wagon on me still has no explanation from your vote nor Rake's. Kary, if you want to lynch me, you aren't doing it correctly and need to re-evaluate your attack on me. Until then, myself, and what seems to be a majority of the playerlist find you scummy for your play this game and it is founded quite well based on other points others have posted.

Vote: Kary

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Interjecting myself here, but earlier you stated that you could actually see something from Gheb's case as a valid concern to hold me as scum? Can you talk more about that because I feel your fence-sitty playing is really starting to irk me that whenever you see a side you just are fine to be on both sides and re-evaluate everything. You have been doing this with me all game and then there is your Rake read where now you are like "okay, I could see town." and then with Kary you say she is your strongest scum-read, but you don't vote her and you actually seem to back down when she presses you on the issue which is somewhat fair because Kary is extremely brash when pushed, but at the same time you aren't sticking to your guns that much.

Why have you not voted on of your "scum-reads" in terms of Kary/Koopy/Gheb? Why haven't you been pushing any slot really in terms of scum-reads and just playing the analytical side-bar game that is really starting to make me question if your reads are real?

Yes, there are some things from Gheb's post that I could see as valid concerns, and they're things from you that I was thinking were weird but that I thought might just be explainable to some extent. But, you never explained them. I also do have a really hard time reading you, so the opinions of other people matter to me in terms of trying to figure you out. The reason I am saying I have to re-read and make my own opinions is because gheb is one of my reads that I think could be scum. I can be amicable to people and understand their viewpoints without agreeing with them. I don't mean to fence-sit, but just seeing my side and not being willing to evaluate and re-evaluate will make me a bad player because I often miss important things from other sides. The same could be said from you, honestly, because I honestly have hardly any clue what your reads are sometimes and then you just seem willing to change without explaining (as has been pointed out, Kary to Rake yesterDay). I can see Rake as town now, because my entire problem with him was that he was just focusing on null/mostly inactive slots yesterDay, but he's still a null read to me because there are things I have problems with with his play.

I am not voting my strongest scum read because that was earlier in the day and I haven't been able to do much recently in terms of reads and posting. Plus, as I explained yesterDay, I don't like to vote until I am positive it's what I want to do. I can say I haven't backed down necessarily, but I haven't had the time to push my reads as much as I want to. I can promise my reads are real, because I base many of my reads off of the interactions of other people because they're going to react differently with each other than they do with me. I haven't been pushing any slot because I haven't felt the need to.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'll be back later since I am being pulled away from my laptop to go bowling, but I will be back later tonight. I wanted to at least respond to Gheb, which I sincerely apologize for making you wait so long.

 

[#HBC | J]

If your reads are real then Sang, vote Kary with me and prove your words with actions. She needs to be pushed harder and that much you can agree with.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You can't write how you are finding me scummy for not explaining my vote or suspicions when you have not done so when you vote me as well. That's just hypocritical haha.

No, it isn't.

You vote me D1 (...)
I vote you D2 (for ignoring me / providing zero explanation)
You vote me D2 (for not explaining anything)

Which of these doesn't have a reason, J?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Give me to tonight when I am able to read through her posts (and just the posts in general) from toDay. I will vote her, but only then.

 

[#HBC | J]

You literally just said "I am voting you for ignoring/zero explanation"

I mean, thanks for proving my point and if that's all you got out of my post then just lol.

 

[ranmaru]

This Rake town read came out of left field.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You literally just said "I am voting you for ignoring/zero explanation"

I mean, thanks for proving my point and if that's all you got out of my post then just lol.

You didn't answer my question. Go back and try again.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

This Rake town read came out of left field.

Town read from who?

 

[#HBC | J]

You didn't answer my question. Go back and try again.

I'll be back later since I am being pulled away from my laptop to go bowling, but I will be back later tonight. I wanted to at least respond to Gheb, which I sincerely apologize for making you wait so long.

I can respond via phone if you quote it, but till then you'll have to wait.

 

[ranmaru]

Never mind. I read your post wrong. I actually want you to address the points you liked from my Rake case, since you are starting to waver on him. Who's scum now, Sang?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I can respond via phone if you quote it, but till then you'll have to wait.

You vote me D1 (...)
I vote you D2 (for ignoring me / providing zero explanation)
You vote me D2 (for not explaining anything)

Which of these doesn't have a reason, J?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I won't get to go into J's responses today [timezone johns, having to get up early, yadda yadda] but there's one thing I wanna tackle real quick:

[...] you have just been hiding behind Gheb and following nearly everything he has done.

This implies that you think Kary is buddying me, right?

Can you please spell it out for me? Do you think or do you not think that Kary is buddying me?

 

[#HBC | J]

I wouldn't say buddying as the word because that's not it. He seems to be in your shadow just doing whatever you do and that shows with his votes and what he has been doing this game.

You two haven't really conversed much to mark it as buddying.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Sorry, it's gonna have to wait till tonight. I'm with J, so I'm gonna be without a computer until then as well. I can say that my scum reads have not changed really since my last post, and that Rake is still null to me.

 

[ranmaru]

J, I'm actually feeling better about Kary, yet I'm not feeling his vote on you. I am wondering about your thoughts on my Rake case, and what actually set you off about Kary early game. I even have one more question for you:

FoS: Rake

I know you Vote Kary after this, but I want to know why you don't react to Kary's earlier votes and church organization.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Well I guess I'm not getting an answer tonight.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You can't write how you are finding me scummy for not explaining my vote or suspicions when you have not done so when you vote me as well. That's just hypocritical haha.

I have a perfectly good reason for voting you. I mention it in #686. This is it:
You have been scumreading me since Day 1- why?

I feel you were ignoring me in Day 1, so I am voting you to try and get some answers. Simple.

You are hiding this game, Kary, and I feel it's because you are scum.

Hiding? Hiding where?

You have not explained damn near any vote this game

Actually, I'm pretty sure I've explained all of them. If you think otherwise, show me.

and you say that you are voting me because I am "obv-scum suspicious and not responding to things", but how is not responding to things scummy?

Well, didn't you just accuse me of hiding? I think that if you have been ignoring me on purpose, then that's obviously suspect.

(that can go to everyone actually haha. Considering my track record with this game, I have been responding to everything when I actually get into the thread.)

Well, you didn't respond to some things- such as my #317 and #424.

How have my pushes been scummy?

You mean, like saying that you had a lynchpool of four people, but only pushing the Rake lynch?

If you use the explanation "Because you haven't explained" then you should be voting yourself and Rake in the same light.

(see top response)

I also find this amusing that you are voting me with such chagrin as if you have this nailed, yet there is no paper-work,

How can I have paperwork when you don't respond to things? I am voting you in order to get information.

there is no reasons besides "I don't like J this game!" which is a bore to analyze and let's continue on with the fact that you have just been hiding behind Gheb and following nearly everything he has done.

Again with the hiding! How so am I hiding?

Yes, I like Gheb this game. Has he been defending me? Have I been relying on him? I don't think so.

You and Rake have voted me after Gheb has and the wagon on me still has no explanation from your vote nor Rake's.

What does Rake have to do with me?

Kary, if you want to lynch me, you aren't doing it correctly and need to re-evaluate your attack on me.

When did I say I wanted to lynch you?
When did I 'attack' you?
I am voting you because I find you suspect and I want answers. You're being over-dramatic.

Until then, myself, and what seems to be a majority of the playerlist find you scummy for your play this game and it is founded quite well based on other points others have posted.

So, at the end of the Day, you have NOTHING to say against me except:
#1 I am 'hiding'
and #2 I 'have not explained myself'

Well, consider this response not-hiding. Consider it explaining.

Now answer my question:
You have been scumreading me since Day 1- why?

 

[ranmaru]

I want to ask Gheb, J, and anyone else that has had a major opinion on my slot D1 but has not given an opinion on me today, to update their reads on me. Thank you.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

why is it a bad argument? Your top scumread (Ran) is someone who let you live yesterDay?

You seem to be doing the bare minimum this game and I don't like it.

i disagree. Alsso, after giving it some thought, and seeing how Ran's treating ryu Im just gonna leave ran well enough alone till im satisfied with my j and Dietz pushes. I admit i said your point is bad but in conjuction with some other things Ive been thinking about with ran make me feel like i should give him another chance / read over

 

[ranmaru]

Rake can you quote when you first started to scumread my slot D1? Just wondering. What is your take on my Gheb case and what is your read on him?

 

[#HBC | J]

Hold the phone, you are voting me purely on the ground of just questions and not because you find me scum? Because when you say things like this:

When did I say I wanted to lynch you?
When did I 'attack' you?
I am voting you because I find you suspect and I want answers

This makes me confused on quite a bit of different levels because it seems you are now just purely voting me because I didn't explain my earlier D1 vote on you which was put there to get your attention that I was looking at you because you had done nothing, but throw your vote around with so little reasoning and not doing anything that looked like scum-hunting besides chiding players which does not look like town-intent from your slot. There are few reasons I have disliked your slot nearly all game:

1.) Your pushes are not something that do not look like you are scum-hunting, but feigning interest towards a slot and then just going with whatever someone else is doing. Not once have I seen you do something of your own volition.
2.) Your reasonings for when asked are abysmall. Case in point, your vote on me is for "info push" rather than a scum-push? If you come back and say "well I suspect you too" I'll be tapping my foot vigrously because you keep going back and forth in that last post.
3.) Your arguing with Sparky in the beginning read as more you trying to paint Sparky in a negative light rather than trying to decipher if he was town or scum which leads me to believe you are scum and were looking to make Sparky look like a patsy for an easy ML and it seemed other players were going along with you. I know you were the player that orchestrated the major Sparky dislike and therefore I dislike you as well. Sparky to me is probably my highest town-read and your push on him was bad and lacked looking at intent of discussion or the why behind his actions.
4.) Where have you actually scum-hunted in this game that does not revolve around your slot? You seem more based on focusing on people when they seem to have an interest in you, *Your Sparky push and your J push have a similar skeleton of "They were looking at me, so I am looking at them". I do not believe you to have that big of an ego where you cannot believe some people are looking at you as scummy so I find your pushes to be self-absorbed and also leaning more to look like you are attacking those who could be a threat to you possibly getting lynched.
5.) Your interactions with other people are not those that you are seeming to use to look at them objectively and see whether they are scum or not. They are more looking at it to see that you are correct or "logical" in that regard and not actually looking at people to see where they are scum. Your intentions do not come across as that of a towny. This much can be seen in your most recent conversation with Sang.
6.) Finally you've been saying that I have been ignoring you on purpose, why do you assume this is the case? I have my hand in a lot of different places right now because I have a lot of conversation avenues open and trying to look at things. It's very easy to get lost track of things and also the fact is I've been busy. You could not have known the latter fact, but the first one could have just been easily solved with you just nudging me to say "oh hey, J, could I get you to respond to this question I had regarding your vote?" but instead you choose to paint it in a negative light to try and inflate your case even more which already lacks basic founding.

But then again, this isn't a push to lynch me as you said? It's a push to gain responses, hmm?

 

[#HBC | J]

I want to ask Gheb, J, and anyone else that has had a major opinion on my slot D1 but has not given an opinion on me today, to update their reads on me. Thank you.

You shouldn't be focusing on how people view you by asking them yourself. Regardless of the matter, I like your slot more since you replaced in and have kind of helped wipe of the Soup grime from your slot.

 

[#HBC | J]

J, I'm actually feeling better about Kary, yet I'm not feeling his vote on you. I am wondering about your thoughts on my Rake case, and what actually set you off about Kary early game. I even have one more question for you:



I know you Vote Kary after this, but I want to know why you don't react to Kary's earlier votes and church organization.

The church organization is RVS shenangians and does not seem to hold much info at all. I was also watching Kary to see if the trend in his votes would continue which you have pointed out, did continue. What set me off about Kary is that he has not been scum-hunting this game really and I find that majorly suspect because Kary has just been chiding logic more than chiding scummy play.

Rake case is fine with me because I still find that slot suspect, but since we used a majority of yesterDay to look at his slot I am okay with other people taking the mantle on that push, such as yourself.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ghebberoo, Let's talk though. I've gone back and re-read your reasonings post on pg. 19 and I am willing to divulge some more information on my read on your slot. I would like to admit that out of my scum reads you would be the weakest because it's more I have my gaurd up on you over the other two having scummy actions behind them. When I was reading Ran's case, I did find that it was incredibly stretchy at some juncutres though I will say it helped me like that slot more. I am looking at your post and thinking that we are just not seeing eye to eye on any issue in the game really and that we have different views on slots which make it easy for us to find each other scummier because if we are both town in this equation this makes us seem to think that our perspective is that of a correct one.

I am looking at your slot and thinking that if there is anyone in the game that has a reason to vote me, it would be your slot because of how polarizing our views on certain things are. Yeah, I have been bad at responding to you in particular and that's a fair point to say, but most of it has been what I have told Kary is that I have been focusing on other slots and also saying that I have not been here lately. I stand by my actions though regardless.

I will say you are holding an affirmative where there should not be one. I would like to say that although you may believe that "all the people pushing Sparky were justified" that that is not 100% the case. Some people that were pushing Sparky could be town and have thought that his actions were scummy. That I will not deny because to say everyone who was pushing Sparky is just lol bad. I would like to pose the point that I feel some of the people that were calling Sparky scummy were using that as a ML opportunity rather than that of a scum-hunting expenditure. It had more mal-intent behind it then not in my eyes.

To go further into a couple reads of mine would be that I am looking at the pile of You/Kary/Rake/Koopy. My town reads would lean more in the realm of Sparky/Ranmaru/RR pile. Sang and Ditzy are leanish town likes. While Glyph would be my only null. That's basically my reads in a nutshell.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i have a migraine. I'll respond tomorrow

 

[#HBC | J]

Also as an aside, I beat Undertale completely and did the True Pacifist Run my first time and just aaaah this game was good. Almost finished a Genocide run, but I'm happy I can finally read the flavor spoilers and see the "true" flips.

 

[Jdietz43]

Seriously? Your best guess for who is scum after Rake is 'someone inactive?'

Consider me unimpressed.

It's not Gheb, Ran, or Sang and J hadn't posted a response to Gheb at that point: so blow me. If you really think I've got a good idea of who scum is in Koopa/Spak/Ryu/Glyph, I'm gonna disappoint you. I don't have time for that.

I'm not reading J posts tonight, I worked 12 hours because Flash ****ed Dentrix.

i asked how people felt about a flavor claim man

Real? You wouldn't bother asking if you didn't think you wanted people to do it.

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm Chara. I'm a survivor (except worse!) + 1-shot doc and I have a 1-shot vote thing where I can make the vote go between two people on Day 2 or 3. I have to keep myself and Frisk alive until endgame. I know who Frisk is and I know they're town, but obviously I won't be posting who that is.

(

Did he? From what I remember, he said he wasn't but that his partner was?

Got Frisk and Chara confused because they're near the same thing in the game, but yeah he's confirming one town flavor

I'm Chara. I'm a survivor (except worse!) + 1-shot doc and I have a 1-shot vote thing where I can make the vote go between two people on Day 2 or 3. I have to keep myself and Frisk alive until endgame. I know who Frisk is and I know they're town, but obviously I won't be posting who that is.

 

[Jdietz43]

(Formatting is hard)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

This makes me confused on quite a bit of different levels because it seems you are now just purely voting me because I didn't explain my earlier D1 vote on you which was put there to get your attention that I was looking at you because you had done nothing, but throw your vote around with so little reasoning and not doing anything that looked like scum-hunting besides chiding players which does not look like town-intent from your slot.

You voted me just to get my attention? This seems pretty ironic given you ignored me the whole rest of the Day.

What exactly did you dislike about my play up to page 7? Because 'throwing my vote around' doesn't sound like a real point you can have against someone in RVS. I'm curious how 'chiding players' is scummy. Show me.

 

[Jdietz43]

Aight, I cooled off a little, reading.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

1.) Your pushes are not something that do not look like you are scum-hunting, but feigning interest towards a slot and then just going with whatever someone else is doing. Not once have I seen you do something of your own volition.
2.) Your reasonings for when asked are abysmall. Case in point, your vote on me is for "info push" rather than a scum-push? If you come back and say "well I suspect you too" I'll be tapping my foot vigrously because you keep going back and forth in that last post.
3.) Your arguing with Sparky in the beginning read as more you trying to paint Sparky in a negative light rather than trying to decipher if he was town or scum which leads me to believe you are scum and were looking to make Sparky look like a patsy for an easy ML and it seemed other players were going along with you. I know you were the player that orchestrated the major Sparky dislike and therefore I dislike you as well. Sparky to me is probably my highest town-read and your push on him was bad and lacked looking at intent of discussion or the why behind his actions.
4.) Where have you actually scum-hunted in this game that does not revolve around your slot? You seem more based on focusing on people when they seem to have an interest in you, *Your Sparky push and your J push have a similar skeleton of "They were looking at me, so I am looking at them". I do not believe you to have that big of an ego where you cannot believe some people are looking at you as scummy so I find your pushes to be self-absorbed and also leaning more to look like you are attacking those who could be a threat to you possibly getting lynched.
5.) Your interactions with other people are not those that you are seeming to use to look at them objectively and see whether they are scum or not. They are more looking at it to see that you are correct or "logical" in that regard and not actually looking at people to see where they are scum. Your intentions do not come across as that of a towny. This much can be seen in your most recent conversation with Sang.
6.) Finally you've been saying that I have been ignoring you on purpose, why do you assume this is the case? I have my hand in a lot of different places right now because I have a lot of conversation avenues open and trying to look at things. It's very easy to get lost track of things and also the fact is I've been busy. You could not have known the latter fact, but the first one could have just been easily solved with you just nudging me to say "oh hey, J, could I get you to respond to this question I had regarding your vote?" but instead you choose to paint it in a negative light to try and inflate your case even more which already lacks basic founding.

I am amazed that you can dredge up this much garbage to try and justify a read. You seem very committed all of a sudden.

#1 Just on page 21 I am talking to Rake and JDietz with my own lines of questioning.
#2 My reasons are bad how? Should I just give you a free pass?
#3 This is just bull****. Spak came after me and I tried to talk him down gently.
#4 Well, this is just wrong. I never pushed Spak, and you are only pushing me now, after I voted for you.
#5 This is just fluff. Like- how is anyone ever 'objective' ?
#6 No, I said you have been ignoring me. #317, #424, #511- basically ever since you voted me 'to get my attention'.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

It's not Gheb, Ran, or Sang and J hadn't posted a response to Gheb at that point: so blow me. If you really think I've got a good idea of who scum is in Koopa/Spak/Ryu/Glyph, I'm gonna disappoint you. I don't have time for that.

Well, can you give me a bad idea? Is that whole pool really just a crapshoot?

 

[Jdietz43]

Well, can you give me a bad idea? Is that whole pool really just a crapshoot?

Imo it's pretty close to one. Koopa hasn't posted since D2 started, and I don't feel like I got anything memorable out of him D1. Ryu just came in the game, and Spak's content I don't feel has had any good directions, though it feels like just standard Spak.

If I had to get down to it, I'd put Koopa out to pasture first because he's had the most opportunity for pro-town action and has produced the least of it. I can see Spak trying, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when the pushes are things like you for your church. Ryu is taking his own initiative on Rake which I like, but I feel is too early to make a real call on (and frankly I just haven't read him very intently as he hasn't super relevant since few people have responded to his intro questions yet)

So, I guess Koopa? But what I'd really rather do is take a minute to re-read D1 and see what I think about the generalizations that you and J have been throwing at each other about each other's play and votes.

 

[Jdietz43]

Cause lord knows that's not SvS

 

[ranmaru]

Still think Rake is the best option for toDay. Notice how he doesn't answer some questions, such as Ryu talking to him or my request for his first soup scumread quote. I also see nothing of Koopa from him today, except when he mentions him as a pick below me. Rake isn't being very open to conversation, when I know Rake is honest about everything. On Koopa, I feel a cat has caught his tongue, and he doesn't want to say anything. It's odd that he views after being prodded and doesn't respond to said prod.