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Zapp Branniglenn
Great work on these.
Don't I know it. You can tech footstools, you can't jab lock although the animations for doing so are there, Shields don't disappear immediately when you put them away, damage doesn't display immediately when hit, multihits are linking way worse than the last game, and Sonic is straight up missing his U-Air landing lag state. This build feels like somebody's attempt at making the last game faster and these are just the most playtested characters that they deemed playable.
Character balance stuff should mostly be done at this point. I get your point but honestly I'd be surprised if much changes that isn't bugs/polish.
Hey, I'm back now.
To Lose.Agreed lol it has happened to me. It IS still his best kill throw if you're not at the right percent for uThrow > uAir, my main problem is that the air version is frame 17... Why? It's excessively hard to time and therefore reminds me of Volcano Kick. You can use it after short hopping towards the opponent but that's ludicrously unsafe. If I hard read a shield I'd rather just dash grab most of the time.Press
Do you think they will increase the hit-stun like people been asking for in the feedback?
Hitstun is the same until tumble state knockback so probably not.
Fthrow & bthrow
Tbh I always thought it was clear Nairo played Bowser casually.
Hence why I said "jokingly".
I'm fine with it going away, but what has Bowser been given in its place to compensate?
Running tilts is huge for characters with good run speeds, like us. Our Utilt is going to get much more use since it reaches higher than any other Utilt (except for Shulk) and has enough disjoint to beat a Cloud Dair with good timing. Perfect shielding looks easy to perform and grants enough advantage that Bowser Bomb punish looks like it's going to be the go to for kills and damage. Our Dthrow is the highest damage throw in the game letting us keep our F and B throws unstaled. New Jumpsquat lets us jump over stuff instead of hiding in shield. Our Fortress has reasonable landing lag and launches so we'll be punished a lot less. I'm also expecting a larger, more protective hitbox since it really cannot get worse than Smash 4's version in the air. N-Air combos will be an ever present tool rather than a weird niche you could do at some percents against sheik. Landing with Side B is a way more viable attack now that it has real startup and a real hitbox. I'm expecting a perfect shield punish meta at high level play and air grabs are going to be exempt. Ours is the fastest in the game and kills with the aid of platforms. B-Air's landing lag is no longer tied for the most landing lag of any aerial.
His Uthrow doesn't kill either, didn't you notice? Plus his Up B looks worse. His trade includes: Super armor on Side B - great for mixing up on somebody's landings. A less laggy dash attack, a less laggy Jab 2. A sixth aerial in his new Down B, slightly faster charge for Giant Punch, and he's going to love running tilts. I'd say that's a good grab bag of stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised if DK mains aren't also bailing on this character prematurely.
Pac Man's new stuff is good but you really gotta note how poor he was in Smash 4. He needed the update more than we did. Struggling to wall out opponents which I still expect to be the case. Other characters getting more stuff doesn't bug me.
We'll see, but I've played the "Hey, Bowser looks so improved this time!" game one too many times to fall into that again.
But do they have tilts worth using? long range and limb intangibility? How about good run speed? Some characters clearly benefit more from this. And among heavyweights Bowser's got the best tilts as long as Dtilt doesn't end up unviable. Unless Snake is still considered a heavy weight, in which case those moves are still great.
I could say the same about Dash Grab. Be less predictable and you won't get read.
Jab cancel stuff seems nerfed for everyone, so it looks like Bowser's go-to combo starters are going to be his grab and utilt. 0:07 in his fighter showcase demonstrates how completely it covers both in front and behind, and launches opponents right above Bowser for juggling. You'll have the choice between the front hit for speed or pivoting for the back hit leading to more guaranteed stuff. And the video also shows that both hits of dtilt can trip, at least during low percents. Allegedly it has good knockback growth that still makes it effective at KOing or setting up edgeguards at higher percents, though there's no visual confirmation of this.
Yeah, down+B has a hitbox while rising, which is weird and possibly a bug.
The majority are. DK's tilts are amazing, Ridley's look pretty damn good, and D3's are also excellent.
Or you'll STILL get read because Bowser is yet again going to be hella slow in this game compared to all of the characters that give him the most trouble.
I haven't found any hard evidence suggesting either way. The only thing I notice about Jabs is multi jabs hitting quicker. Really a lot of multi hit moves were adjusted to have startup reductions on the second hit onward. Probably so that players don't get a free perfect shield on whichever hit they want while blocking. Which is still an issue for some moves like Inkling rapid jab or Fox D-Air. But for normal jabs, all I seen is Link's Jab 1 endlag is improved from last game. Probably not to a point where his jab 1 nonsense is back, but enough where jab won't seem like such a heavy commitment.
It led to a 24 placement in the most recent tier list. Out of 58. Considerably better than 33 out of 38 in the previous game.
Kurogane's post is just a hot take. Bottom 10 when we've seen less then half the roster? I'm not fully convinced Bowser is bottom 10 in this demo with all these nerfs.
The horn attack?
Haha!... True. I have been 0-death'd in 8 man Sm4sh.
Given the amount of analyzing Kurogane does, I'm sure he's already seen most if not all of what other characters now have and it's not too hard to see that Bowser didn't get visited by the buff fairy like they did.
I posted some videos earlier in the thread where Bowser has hit opponents before he has started to descend during down+B, and it did seem to spike them downward. Looks very buggy, though.
Yeah I'm just curious why you're hanging on his every word when we do the same thing .Or more appropriately, why use anybody's first impressions to shoot down other people's equally valid viewpoints? You did it earlier with Nairo too. Why do we need some vague kind of credibility just to give our own impressions. Stop picking and choosing things you hear as gospel and try to think more critically.
Dude, Sheik was not a viable character in Brawl. She couldn't combo because of the knockback mechanics and she had no kill moves. Now I'm extremely curious about your selective memory.
Because he came to a conclusion grounded in realism whereas you haven't.
...on the end of the previous page.
No, but she dunked on Bowser in Brawl and dunked on him horrendously in Melee before it.
In regards to speedy characters, jumpsquat makes a huge difference since while before they could easily smack Bowser before he could even attempt to use an aerial to challenge (fair), now Bowser can more readily contest and space with it, since it outranges similar moves from fast characters and wins trades with higher damage. And as Zapp said, makes getting around projectiles easier.
I saw this term thrown around a lot in years previous. Good run speed doesn't make you a rush down. It just means you can close distance fast for a punish. Rush down means you can apply safe, varied pressure that cuts off the opponent's options and voids any of their zoning tools. Never got that impression from Bowser. Bowser is more Marth than Fox. His range is comparable and his moves are functionally like swords while the hitbox is active.
Well I don't know what to say then if we're going to ignore the whole conversation that led up to this. I bring facts, you bring youtube videos. I've had enough of it.
