Two techniques: One old, one new

[PK-ow!]

I have come to report two things.

1. The first, an AT found by the Falco boards, which is apparently character-general:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233347​

The 'RBPGU' (name pending), which is a Pivot Dash attack canceled Upsmash.

This move *has* to be executed by Ness, because I want to know what the **** happens.

2. The other news is simply that I have executed a reverse PK Jump, and our so-called 'Firebound,' without B-sticking. I can't prove it because no replay would prove that I had. But I have done it.
It's rather annoying to get the Reverse PK Jump because releasing the control stick seems to be essential, as does initial momentum. But from that all you need to do is B-reverse, and you get a Firebound.

Also, I'd like names for these. My execution proves that none of these techniques involve anything character specific other than the PK Jump itself. It was simply a so-called wavebounced PK Jump, which is to say a Reverse B-reversal of a PK Jump, or B-reversal of a reverse PK Jump.

In case it's not clear, by Reverse PK Jump I mean a PK Jump with the PK Fire executed in reverse fashion; I do not have Ness jump backwards. (Indeed, what I want to know is why the PK Jump only happens on Ness' forward second jump.)

I believe it would be proper to analyze the term "PK Jump" as being a Special attack (B attack), to which all the terms of ATs for side-specials apply, and whose semantic properties are such that the AT alters the PK Fire, but the momentum boost is an element additional to that meaning (and which is 'added' according to the game physics for "momentum boosts").

I'm still trying to do a Ledgefire with B-sticking, so I'll get back to you on that.

 

[Uffe]

Your second one sounds like a reversed PK Jump. But neither one are explained that well if you ask me. I'd need a video of each one. Especially that first one.

 

[Neon Ness]

I just tested that first one with Ness and he doesn't really slide that far backwards while charging, but the slide is noticeable. It's more useful sliding forward, actually. Ness like starts gliding... he goes slightly farther than a normal sliding up smash, I think. Falco's seems to get more distance for some reason.

Unless I'm doin it rawng. Eh, I'll try it out some more later when I'm not starving.

 

[mobilisq]

Uffe, for the second one, I believe what he is trying to say is he performed a b-reversed pk fire at the same time he was trying to pk jump. Such that ness flew forward and the fire went backward

 

[PK-ow!]

Your second one sounds like a reversed PK Jump. But neither one are explained that well if you ask me. I'd need a video of each one. Especially that first one.

I'm claiming something we had done before. Remember Firebound? You PK Jump, but then you move backwards just as far as you moved forwards, and appear to move up (I still can't be sure if your up momentum changes), and use PK Fire in your initial [forward] direction.

... although I guess I can send a replay of the Reverse PK Jump, since we would never normally do that on its own.
And yes, I believe mobilisq knows what I'm talking about for that.

Who do I send to? Someone send me a PM with Wii code. yoshq?

I think what *you* mean, Uffe, by "Reverse PK Jump", is what I would call a PK Jump Reversal—again because that seems to be the mechanism at play—wherein Ness PK Jumps, then reverses momentum and direction and shoots PK Fire as he falls down. For some reason, his ascent seems to be cut with the B-reversal, and he usually lands with PK Fire lag (you can't IASA).
Crucially, my supposition is that Firebound *is not* a PK Jump Reversal of any kind, either categorically or constitutively. It is composed of a Reverse PK Jump and a B-reversal.


The RBPGU probably does nothing except on DACUS-capable characters... and we're not noticeably DACUS-capable.
Still, I want to see it, Neon Ness. What does it look like if you just Run, turn and jump cancel Usmash?

 

[Uffe]

I wish I had a video of what I was trying to talk about. Or at least show it and then ask if you were talking about that certain technique.

 

[mobilisq]

i have the means to record things, by the way

just not the means to record a super high quality vid

 

[Levitas]

Hmm, I might be able to help out if I can replicate it in debug. Any clue what order you pressed buttons in, or should I just make good guesses?

 

[PK-ow!]

Hmm, I might be able to help out if I can replicate it in debug. Any clue what order you pressed buttons in, or should I just make good guesses?

I know exactly what order I pushed the buttons in. Forgot I began this post with this sentence. >_<

...

however apparently I had an inattention episode when I said it was a Reverse PK Jump. I am totally dumb... and have just made the Firebound even more mysterious.


I did (fixing myself as facing right):

Jump -> drift

-> PK Jump ->

+ B ->

-> [neutral]

Returning to neutral, simply appears imperative. And you have to do it fast. If you don't do it fast, Ness stops the ascent, reverses (before the PK Fire), but the magnitude of the momentum drastically drops off and he just mostly falls.

When you do this, Ness uses the PK Jump, except at a certain horizontal point his horizontal component of motion is 0. He goes up, but not as far forward. And he shoots the PK Fire backward.

Then all you have to do is reverse that - which is *really god**** hard* since you have to pass through neutral - and he Firebounds.

... which is totally bogus because I count two reversals. In fact, you know what, I'd sooner believe I'm simply not monitoring my own kinesthesis properly than think I had B-reversed twice.


*~*~*~

By the way, about the first technique... It is absolutely lost on me. It's likely connected that I don't know what the True Pivot is. I've looked it up in Brawl Tactical. I look at the words and just don't get meaning out of them.​

 

[Man of Popsicle]

360 falcon punch?

 

[Levitas]

Reverse B reversals are a common part of Lucas's game. It's called wavebouncing pk fires.

 

[jorge199494]

no vids? =\

 

[thesage]

Anything that is done through b-stick can do be done without it, just harder (at least for Ness I think).

 

[PK-ow!]

Okay, I have got back to being able to do the Reverse PK Fire / Jump thingie. I am reluctant to call it a Reverse PK Jump now as it seems to be a different sort of thing.


The input is, apparently,

Full Jump -> At a certain part of the jump, second jump straight up or slightly forward -> Frame-perfect Reverse PK Fire -> Frame-perfect neutralize A-stick.
EDIT: The certain part of the jump is 'almost at the apex'. I can't understand why I should fail to do everything right if I alter this factor.

Every time I did the second jump earlier than this specific point, I couldn't perform the tech.

If I was moving for the second jump, I didn't get the height boost, rather canceling the double jump, and actually accelerating downward it seemed.
If I didn't neutralize the A-stick, I started moving backwards, as though I momentum-reversed... even though I had little to no forward momentum. And I killed the double jump as above.


I have a replay where I do the tech 3 or 4 times. I go up, and slightly forward.

My production of a Firebound must have been a fluke that I actually don't understand. From what I have here, a B-reversal should be possible, but it won't produce such displacement as a B-sticked Firebound.

 

[Eagleye893]

Okay, the first one seems to be just a regular reverse hyphen usmash with Random stuff mixed in. Aka, dash then pivot > jump-canceled usmash.

Second one: don't really care. I just figure things out with pkfire by playing ness and eventually mixing in stuff that's easy enough to do. I don't think about my pk(?), I just do it and it works.

 

[NintenJoe]

I think the old technique you're reffering to is manual B-Stick. It's pretty much flicking the control stick a certain way that the B-Stick does automatically in order to get the same desired effect. With practice, the B-Stick can become easy to do manually while maintaining a normal C-Stick.