Turning loading-based transform off in COMPETITIVE play!

[popsofctown]

Currently Zelda's and Sheik's B down take a variable amount of time that is based on loading the other character. It varies from time to time, and from wii to wii. It also takes a long time.

I've found an inconvenient way that you can play a 1v1 match with the transform time essentially set to low, if you can convince the tourney official that it should be set to low. It doesn't interrupt the game, and is totally fair. just inconvenient.

Put the Zelda or Sheik who likes to transform midbattle in slot 1 or two. Put the other player in slot 2.
Set player three to be a player controlled zelda, with just an empty controller
Set player four to be a player controlled sheik, with just an empty controller plugged in

It must be stock. It is preferable to have some sort of moderator.
The "ghost" sheik runs off the stage three times in a row.
The "ghost" Zelda runs off the stage three times in a row.
Zelda and Sheik are preloaded, and the Zelda will transform consistently and quickly during the fight.

The only other question that arises is, after having both characters stand still during all this, how do we say three two one go? Bear in mind that under normal circumstances, you are spawned on the ground with no invincibility and instant ability to move. If you have a moderator call 321 go, you have to deal with false starts and what not.

I have something clever for this too. Have a moderator drive the final Zelda off the stage. Then, at some point right before the Zelda dies, the moderator pauses the game. Then both real players can attempt input right as they are actually given control, just like a real game. The moderator unpauses it and the game begins.

If there is no moderator, the second fairest thing to do (actually just as fair as the first way) is have player one (zelda) do this process. The Zelda player is just hindered by having to tap the pause button on a controller that is not there right as the match begins. Since the whole accomodation is for Zelda's sake, the Zelda player will probably be fine with this.


So now there are two ways to play a match, with the loading off or on. Any tourney can refuse to allow this accomodation, or allow the tourney's Zelda competitor to ask for a "machine constant" match. (it is important to emphasize the consistency aspect over the speed aspect)

flames?

 

[Gates]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4268627#post4268627
^^That basically says more or less the same thing. Also, it would probably just take less time ot transform than it would to try and persuade the TO and have the "ghosts" KO themselves.

 

[S2]

Interesting idea, but its a little too complicated to apply in tournament settings. Not only does it throw a round's pacing off, but it sucks up time (most tournaments are time crunches anyways).


I think Zelda/Sheik players are just going to have to deal with the transformation delay, even though its sucks massively.

 

[popsofctown]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4268627#post4268627
^^That basically says more or less the same thing. Also, it would probably just take less time ot transform than it would to try and persuade the TO and have the "ghosts" KO themselves.

It's not the same thing, the idea hasn't been applied there.

 

[Gates]

It's not the same thing, the idea hasn't been applied there.

Uh, did you read it?

To test with the short transformation thing, I did a 4 player match with one CPU Zelda and one CPU Sheik.
[...]
When I transformed, it's twice as fast.

That's essentially exactly what you said only with CPUs instead of a neutral moderator. And it's fairly clear that the idea has been applied since I doubt he would have known about the scenario otherwise.

 

[Luthien]

Uh, did you read it?That's essentially exactly what you said only with CPUs instead of a neutral moderator. And it's fairly clear that the idea has been applied since I doubt he would have known about the scenario otherwise.

That's not what he meant. He's trying to find a convinient way to apply the shorter loading time to tournaments. He's not trying to prove it. This is indeed a different idea. I personally believe this could have been posted in that thread as a new idea, but whatever. The point is, this thread takes the first thread to a new level. We're past proving it. Now we're trying to come up with creative and convinient ways to apply it.

 

[Tsuteto]

Teams .

 

[Pegasus Knight]

This is an interesting, creative, and constructive idea. I like it.

That said, I have to bring up a few challenges to it, to see how tournaments might handle thiese considerations:

1 - Increase in time used; moderator(s) must be present for this, or else players must be willing to trust one another to handle this themselves. Additionally, I suspect the process would take about 20-30 seconds for these triple-suicides. Done enough times, this can increase the event/tournament's time consumption. It also uses up in-game timer; do you add another minute to the clock to account for this?

2 - Equipment required; I believe the onus must be on the Zelda/Sheik player to bring two extra Gamecube controllers for this purpose. (Or port-swapping, but some people don't like doing that for various good reasons).

3 - Solution is inherently useless for the 2v2 format, for obvious reasons. This is a minor concern at best even though I prefer the Teams format.

I like it, I really do, but there are pitfalls before it can be readily accepted, I think...

 

[Gates]

That's not what he meant. He's trying to find a convinient way to apply the shorter loading time to tournaments. He's not trying to prove it. This is indeed a different idea. I personally believe this could have been posted in that thread as a new idea, but whatever. The point is, this thread takes the first thread to a new level. We're past proving it. Now we're trying to come up with creative and convinient ways to apply it.

Oh, I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Cooper736]

Interesting idea, but its a little too complicated to apply in tournament settings. Not only does it throw a round's pacing off, but it sucks up time (most tournaments are time crunches anyways).

Exactly. You say this is to be used in 1 v. 1, but your idea inadvertently calls for four people to be present. Not only that, but two people, the two playing in the tournament, are expected to stay in one place and wait the 10-20 seconds it will take for two characters to lose three lives? The whole idea messes with the flow of the game. Besides, if you're planning on maining Zelda/Shiek in a tournament and switching mid-game, most likely you've practiced efficient ways to do it.

Superfluous idea, if you ask me.

 

[ORly?]

Question.
So if you begin the round as Zelda, and change to Shiek. Does the game have to reload Zelda's data if you want to switch back to Zelda? Or does the second transformation go fast because Zelda was loaded at the beginning of the round?

 

[The Executive]

This is the first I've heard as far as an explanation for the variable lag on transformations. IT sucks, but I play Zelda standalone about 70% of the time, so it's a non-issue for me.

 

[popsofctown]

Answer,
The game has to reload.
My guess why:
The wii's memory probably has room for no more than 4 characters at any one time (Ice climbers probably have simplified data).
The wii is prepared for the worst case scenario, a Mario, Luigi, Peach, and a Zelda. Their data sits in memory.
MLPZ
If you transform to Sheik, there is no room for MLPZS. Transformation makes the memory go:
MLPZ
MLP (during that time neither Zelda nor Sheik exists, only a ball of light)
MLPS

However, the wii works the same way in a best case scenario. Even if you just play a Mario, it goes:
MZ
M
MS
M
MZ

However, a character's data is not wiped, even if it is dead. So if you kill off a Zelda and a Sheik at the beginning, you get:
ZSM
The whole game through.


@ recent discussion in this thread:
Your arguments about the difficulties this poses are valid, i just thought the idea was better mentioned than unmentioned.

In more friendly games, you could play a create-a-stage. with conveyors on top. The players just roll off......

 

[KOdEx]

Wouldn't having another character on stage / match just get in the way or at least be a bit distracting... unless I'm not reading this right but I vote for no. To me this isn't much different from allowing smash balls into a game so ZSS can transform in the middle of a match. I don't like special treatment anyway :D

 

[Newuser12345215]

This post will be off topic.

Someone should try this in a casual 1v1 match(with no items enabled). While it's a "casual match", both players should try to win. Also record the video of the fight for us to watch. Actually, you don't have to be facing a player, just fight against a level 9 computer if you want.


Anyway, you'll need 4 controllers(or 3 if you're just fighting against a CPU). Go into "team brawl", Pick Zelda(whoever is playing Zelda that is).

Make it 3v1 but make sure there are no computers. The player who is playing as Zelda should be on the side with "3 players".

It has to be stock mode(of course).

Anyway, pick Zelda and Sheik as Zelda's allies. Do the same thing as my post in this topic basically.

Have Zelda(Not the main Zelda you're using) and Sheik suicide until they're dead forever.


Ok, now play the match "for real".

Now the reason why you're doing all of that, it'll make Zelda transform NEARLY INSTANTLY(in approx 0.5 seconds).

If a Zelda is playing a team with Zelda and Sheik as her allies. She'll be able to transform nearly instantly.

But She doesn't transform instantly if Zelda and Sheik aren't on her team. If Zelda and Sheik "aren't" on the same team as the player Zelda, she'll only transform twice as fast instead of near instantly.


Try to do some crazy Zelda and Sheik transformation combos in that match.

Also post a video of you fighting your best with Zelda/Sheik combo