I feel like ZeR0 has a very good anology when he said it's like fighting Ice Climbers. They're such different characters to the point where you have to change up you're game plan and be extra careful. Like, extra. extra careful=
This can literally be applied to the majority of Smash 4 newcomers, and many of the veterans.
Sheik doesn't understand the meaning of the words "landing lag". Plus she used to be able to out camp you from any point in the stage unless you were Rosalina. And she has absurd recovery options.
ZSS has a move that literally makes her intangible, flips her over pretty much anything and can lead to a devastating meteor or you being buried into the ground, and she had an obnoxiously fast tether grab. Her recovery, is even MORE absurd than Sheik's. Most characters can forget about trying to gimp these two (at least most characters have a decent shot of gimping Bayonetta, all you have to do to gimp her is use a move that outranges her, which isn't hard. Her recovery is definitely one of the best still, but at least it isn't a case where only one or two characters can stand a chance of gimping her).
Rosalina changes the match into a 2v1. The sole reason people still complain about Rosalina being OP is because they keep playing the MU like it's a 1v1. It also isn't like Ice Climbers where you have to learn the moves and properties of one character that happens to be duplicated. Rosalina & Luma have their own movesets and properties and you have to learn how they work individually, and how they work in tandem. She also gets unique utility out of many cast-wide techniques, such as Auto-Cancelling, A-Landing, RAR, etc, which causes many characters to be shut down. She can literally negate any and all projectile games unless the player is EXTREMELY smart about it. And while she unfortunately does not have a hitbox on her default recovery, she can recover from any point of the stage as long as she avoids taking a hit, and luckily, Launch Star is quick and versatile enough to make that possible. Also, ask Luma what "move priority and clanking", is, and he will say "literally what are you on about?". That is just scratching the surface of how this character breaks the rules and causes everyone else to take a different approach. Rosalina also forces her players to understand two different sets of controls, the normal Smash controls of moving Rosalina, and the unique controls involved with moving and positioning Luma.
Little Mac has a OHKO move that causes the opponent to play extremely carefully and he can literally shrug off any knockback and flinching by simply being in the animation of his Smash attacks, causing players to be punished for punishes or reads they normally would have had, like so:
(I still won that match tho, lol)
Cloud has basically a combination of traits that no character should really have all at once - speed, power, range, amazing frame data, combo potential, a good projectile, and a self-buffing mechanic that he can charge at will, that also gives him an absurdly early KO option. Even Sakurai has gone on record saying that it was difficult to make him feel balanced. The only things holding Cloud back at all, are his poor recovery and off-stage game without Limit, and the fact his moves work at very defined, predictable angles. Also some characters can just out camp him because they have better projectiles or they negate his. By all accounts though, he is the character with the most obvious "combination of traits that no character should have under sensible design in fighting games, regardless of if it's 1v1 or FFA".
Those are just a few examples but I think I've made the point clear. Also note, I am not saying any of the above characters are OP or something, but that they all have things that FORCE lots of characters to play differently.
So no, saying Bayonetta is a problem on the basis that she "breaks normal rules of Smash" and causes players to think differently, is not a good reason to claim she is problematic. Literally half the cast have this "problem".
In reality though, this simply makes the game interesting. It would be boring if every character was playing under the same "rules", and they only differences they have are whether or not they are fast and weak, or slow and strong.
I'm not talking about overpoweredness, I'm talking about how Bayonetta makes the game less enjoyable for everyone involved, since the opponent is encouraged – forced, even – to play a slow, campy, honestly quite boring playstyle. Nobody likes watching or playing a slow, campy match.
Do not state an opinion as a universal fact. I like watching a battle of wits as much as a flashy, anime DBZ style slap fest. Sometimes more so.
This is also different from Brawl Meta Knight, because Meta Knight was simply overpowered, not fundamentally game-breaking.
Yes, he was.
Characters flat out didn't have options against Brawl MK. He is like Cloud, in that he is fundamentally game breaking in the sense he has a combination of tools that no character should have at once under sensible game design, except unlike Cloud, he wasn't given anything to balance him out or make him predictable. Many of these tools also broke inherent rules, like gliding, and he could use like, 3 recovery moves in one jump, outside of his normal jumps and gliding. He didn't know what frame data or priority was either. The list goes on.
And a character that is over powered is FAR worse than a character that breaks a few rules. You flat out can't do anything solid against an overpowered character, and you don't need to be particularly good at the game to do well with them. It doesn't matter what you do against a truly OP character, as there is never a situation where they aren't at an advantage. A character that breaks a few rules might skew a certain subset of MUs into "shut down" territory, but most characters still stand a chance, you just need to think outside the box, which is exciting to see. Characters that break rules also force you to get good at mechanics or strategies you might not normally use, making you a fundamentally better player, both if you play as them or against them. For example, if you don't normally play doubles but want to get into playing doubles, playing a bit of Rosalina & Luma is of course going to teach you some of the fundamental mechanics one must learn to be an effective member of a doubles pair.
The reason why I will say "git gud" to people who whine about Bayonetta, Rosalina, Little Mac, or any character of this "rule breaking" kind, is because they are only whining about these characters because they don't want to take the time to think outside the box, and learn some new strategies. They just want to play the same, meat-headed "run in guns blazing" strategy, the whole time. And that can indeed get boring in and of itself.
still has Witch time"
