Trumped Distances for Every Character

[NinjaLink]

I made a video showcasing the distances of each character when they are 'trumped'. Trumped is when you're forced off the ledge by someone else grabbing it. Thanks to @TsuKiyoMe for helping me test the distances and @Yink and @Rockin for the assistance with recording the video.

The importance of this? To edgeguard proficiently, you have to time a trump when your opponent is autosnapping to the ledge. When you do that, you have more frame advantage giving you an opportunity to followup with an attack as they are forced off. Also since each character has their own arc that they follow, you'll have to adjust on how to followup. The opponent cannot do any action for a short time so time it properly. For an example of how it works, Check out this video. If the timelink doesn't work, go to 42 seconds.

He perfectly times when Palutena grabs the ledge and steals it from her, allowing a followup bair. She cant do ANYTHING during this time. This is probably the only person I seen using this properly. In the future this will be crucial for edgeguarding.

Here is a list of highest to lowest arcs when trumped. If some characters identical or pixels apart, I've put them in the same group.

Fox
Pikachu/Greninja/Megaman
Sheik/Falco
Mario/Metaknight/Olimar/Dr. Mario
Bowser Jr/Charizard
Luigi/Kirby/Jigglypuff/Pacman
Wario/Toon Link/Duck Hunt/Ness/Villager/Rob
G&W/Sonic
Marth/Lucina
Yoshi/ZSS
Peach/Link/Diddy/Pit/Dark Pit
Robin/Mac/Lucario/Wii Fit/Shulk
Palutena
Bowser/Falcon
Rosalina/Zelda/Ike
Dedede
DK/Ganon/Samus

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Good stuff NL. THough I wonder, do changes in attributes affect trumped distances? Like, would a Lightweight Palutena have a different arc than a regular one? Or a Shield Arts Shulk compared to a regular Shulk?

 

[Dr. Tuen]

The distances are cool. Hopefully we can test the number of frames of advantage that are yielded at some point. I think characters can jump before they can attack, so keep that in mind maybe? I personally like calling the ledge trump to back air type thing "bump guarding." Because you bump them off the edge first, heh.

 

[NinjaLink]

Good stuff NL. THough I wonder, do changes in attributes affect trumped distances? Like, would a Lightweight Palutena have a different arc than a regular one? Or a Shield Arts Shulk compared to a regular Shulk?

I've mentioned that weight modifiers has no effect on this. Same for lucarios aura.

 

[Thinkaman]

Based on this 30 fps video, you can move 32 frames (game speed) after being bounced off the ledge.

This means that frame advantage after ledge drop is 30 frames, minus the difference in ledge grab times.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I've mentioned that weight modifiers has no effect on this. Same for lucarios aura.

Did you mention this on skype cause if so then that's why I missed it

 

[deepseadiva]

This will be game defining. Excellent work.

Time to practice.

 

[Signia]

Based on this 30 fps video, you can move 32 frames (game speed) after being bounced off the ledge.

This means that frame advantage after ledge drop is 30 frames, minus the difference in ledge grab times.

So it only takes two frames get off the ledge once you've grabbed it?

 

[Thinkaman]

So it only takes two frames get off the ledge once you've grabbed it?

One to ledge drop, one to double jump.

Of course, you have a minimum ledge grab duration, which is the same that the trumped player experiences. (Hence the underlined part)

 

[IReidYou]

Figured this would be the most relevant place to put this, but this happened to me some days ago http ://gfycat.com/EvilWhirlwindArmednylonshrimp (can't post a link with under 10 posts wow)

Seems like you can cancel your trump animation with a jump? Tbh I really don't remember what I inputted to get that to come out lol and been too lazy/busy to try and recreate it. Hopefully someone can answer this dilemma cause if it can be recreated seamlessly, then sadly this could be a big slap to the whole trump mechanic

 

[-RedX-]

Have you tested if the person recovering can buffer a getup option to avoid being trumped? I've seen several players do this to me and I couldn't trump them.

 

[NinjaLink]

Have you tested if the person recovering can buffer a getup option to avoid being trumped? I've seen several players do this to me and I couldn't trump them.

People have been saying this but since theyre buffering a limited getup option, take advantage of that. I would test more but 3DS makes things difficult.

 

[Thinkaman]

Figured this would be the most relevant place to put this, but this happened to me some days ago http ://gfycat.com/EvilWhirlwindArmednylonshrimp (can't post a link with under 10 posts wow)

Seems like you can cancel your trump animation with a jump? Tbh I really don't remember what I inputted to get that to come out lol and been too lazy/busy to try and recreate it. Hopefully someone can answer this dilemma cause if it can be recreated seamlessly, then sadly this could be a big slap to the whole trump mechanic

Strange, I did some trump testing with Ampharos and we couldn't reproduce anything like this.

 

[NinjaLink]

Strange, I did some trump testing with Ampharos and we couldn't reproduce anything like this.

Its something with walljumping characters. Hold away from the ledge when you first grab it apparently.I havent tested it myself to try.

 

[Conda]

This could have been edited down, but no worries. Good video. I'm used to seeing this kind of 'unedited chunk' footage since almost all Smash footage is livestreamed, and players just upload straight to youtube afterward. However, some editing would be great for the viewer, though. Just some constructiveness.

I know editing can suck, though. I've been working on my 'Brawl-->Smash 4 moveset changes' series for a while and the editing is a killer. I'd love to not have to edit them haha.


Cheers!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I've mentioned that weight modifiers has no effect on this. Same for lucarios aura.

It's not a weight modifier.

 

[NinjaLink]

It's not a weight modifier.

Palutena is lighter during this. Same goes for Shulks forms. They have no affect of this regardless.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Palutena is lighter during this. Same goes for Shulks forms. They have no affect of this regardless.

Except she's not lighter during lightweight...

But interesting to know there's no effect regardless.

 

[NinjaLink]

Except she's not lighter during lightweight...

But interesting to know there's no effect regardless.

Dont hurt me. I'm old!

 

[S2]

Thanks for posting this stuff. Keep up the good work, I enjoyed your custom move videos you made on the JPN version.