Triforce of Wisdom: Mindgames, Applied ATs, and Strategies

[4tlas]

Another thing: Zelda generally has better finishers to all combo strings. So if both players could hit the opponent at the end of a combo, it is usually better to let Zelda do it.

I often teleport across the stage to surprise or just pressure my opponents into letting my teammate back onstage. I can also usually throw out moves like crazy because my teammate will shield them - after all, they were expecting to get edgeguarded anyway. I'm bound to hit an edgeguarder and free up my teammate, or at least force the edgeguarders to dodge/shield me instead of guarding.

 

[TimeSmash]

This is more of a general teams thing, but don't forget to grab now and again. Obviously if you whiff or grab in a suboptimal situation you will get punished, but doing something like grabbing one opponent while the other is dying from a star KO or something gives your teammate to kill the grabbed opponent with a strong move. Zelda's grab range is pretty okay so don't be afraid to use it!!

Also yo Teleshort into Ftilt against backwards facing edgeguarding opponent = amazing

 

[WhiteCrow]

I am of the firm opinion that Zelda is S-Tier in doubles. She just has so many weapons of mass destruction in teams. With four characters on screen we don't have to worry as much about our slow run speed. People practically walk into our hit-boxes when they get too aggressive. You can catch people with horrible DI on your lightning kicks and down smashes. I'm getting ahead of myself though, there's a lot to talk about.


Let's talk specials. Nayru's Love grounded has a lot of utility when your team needs defense. Is your teammate recovering to the ledge you are defending? Pop a neutral b. It covers a lot of approaches for a brief period of time, reflects projectiles, and even has invulnerability near start up. It's even a safe move to hit your teammate with since it doesn't really kill by itself until high percents. Smart teammates might even intentionally jump into the blue vortex, SDIing through the multiple hits so they get spit out back into the fray. They can also shield a grounded Nayru's and jump OoS to cover you. Nayru's Love has a surprisingly consistent knock back angle and it has lots of active frames. It covers a lot of tech options if your teammate is comboing someone. If any of Nayru's hit-boxes connect it can be the perfect launcher for a team combo. Like most of Zelda's multi hit moves it's even great for catching your teammate as they get knocked away. I differentiate between grounded and aerial Nayru's because they serve different uses. Aerial Nayru's Love, while it doesn't have invulnerability, can be land cancelled. It can be used more aggressively for starting combos, actively nullifying projectiles, and controlling space safely. It's a giant blue diamond and people scare easy. You already know the weaknesses of Nayru's Love so I won't lecture you. Don't use it flippantly and don't forget it's available. When things are harry and you need a breath, feel free to pop that neutral b and reset the situation. Catching all players in the blue blender is surprisingly satisfying, and in the end your opponents team is taking more damage than yours.

Din's Fire, especially in this iteration, is perfect for teams play. One issue you'll run into with your partner is that they're just as scared of your mines as your opponents are. Imagine how rough it was when we had three! Mines you set restrict your opponents and your teammates. Know their movement patterns and make sure you are communicating when you are setting traps. The speed and flexibility of Zelda's projectile leaves many in fits of jealousy; abuse it. We can put a hit-box almost anywhere on screen in moments. We can interrupt recoveries, edge guards, charging up smashes, grabs, and OoS options. We can own the stage, the ledge, and the air with one placement. Make each placement count! Educate your teammate on how exactly Din's Fire works. It will help them understand how to disarm them if they need to and will help them take less damage from your botched placements. Both of you should know what moves can disarm an un-wanted mine. Know your teammates recovery. This is super important. A single Din's Fire can save and end the stock of any character. If you team with a Fox you should know that their up special will punch through Din's traps. Fox has to fall out of Fire Fox before he falls on the trap if he wants to refresh his recovery. A Din might not aid Ivysaur's tether much but she might appreciate a trap covering the ledge so she gets the fastest get up possible. DK and Bowser can easily power through Din's Fire with their up specials, so you have to put the mine below them. Peach can hover in place and think out their recoveries so it's okay to put the trap further off the stage and out of the reach of your opponents. Their stocks are in your hands.

Which brings me to Farore's Wind. Aside from down special I use this move the least in doubles. Zelda has a lot of crazy stuff your teammate has to cope with, so teleporting around the stage can be a little overwhelming, even in 2 v 1 situations. That isn't to say the move is useless. We can come out of nowhere if your opponent isn't paying attention. Teammate getting grabbed? Teleport across the stage and use the ending hit box to break things up. Your teammate calls out one character being at kill percent? Teleport in and up tilt/down smash the fool. You partner is about to get grab>smashed? Teleport in and spread the Nayru's Love. We can teleport instantly to the ledge, allowing our teammates to cover an on stage recovery. We can go deep to save our teammates and still recover. We are much easier to save because of the distance and unpredictability of our up special. Make sure you're communicating with your partner as to how you want to recover and you should get back almost every time.

I'll let the conversation grow a little but that's just a snap shot of how cool I think Zelda is in doubles.

 

[BlackMamba]

Zelda works well with mobile characters who are good at best at building up damage (as opposed to finishing off opponents). I've had great success with Sheik and Marth (check the gifs under my name in the Show Us Your Swagger thread) as partners. Fully utilizing her potential in teams requires your partner knowing when to shield (e.g. when you go for a LK snipe in the middle of a bunch of foes, when a Din's is returning, when you use Naryu's to escape pressure and they're nearby). With Marth particularly, the two of them can control space AMAZINGLY well on mid-sized stages, though small stages can be dangerous since they can get in each other's way a lot. I believe Zelda should always play support because she can do so very well, securing kills, holding onto stocks, and saving her partner.

 

[4tlas]

A local weekly is going to run teams regularly, so I hope to have example vids to post soon. For now, I will upload what we got from last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGk9q0KIM40&index=16&list=PLcSDnlN_g2t6kJqHJe0TXrsmMGhRL0c3a

I apologize for linking a playlist but I am in 3 of the 4 videos that will play. Skip the second video, which has no Zeldas. I'm the Zelda on team Diabeetus, which matters in the first video because there is ALSO a Zelda on the other team! Perhaps you can compare the success of our different playstyles in doubles, or maybe its just useful to have twice the data.


One thing that we haven't mentioned is Transforming. I think I mentioned that if your opponent is Sheik and you are Zelda you get an instant transform, and vice versa. However, there is another teams-only use for transform that I use in the final video: stalling. At one point, I was high above the stage and waiting for my teammate to respawn (and come help me) so I double transformed to fall slowly and be intangible. It worked, but it wasn't enough to turn the tides.

 

[luxingo]

However, there is another teams-only use for transform that I use in the final video: stalling. At one point, I was high above the stage and waiting for my teammate to respawn (and come help me) so I double transformed to fall slowly and be intangible.

That's interesting to know. Farore's Wind ledge stalling is good as well (if done properly), and I sometimes use that if I want to wait for the Din's Fire to explode and come back.

 

[TimeSmash]

One thing that we haven't mentioned is Transforming. I think I mentioned that if your opponent is Sheik and you are Zelda you get an instant transform, and vice versa. However, there is another teams-only use for transform that I use in the final video: stalling. At one point, I was high above the stage and waiting for my teammate to respawn (and come help me) so I double transformed to fall slowly and be intangible. It worked, but it wasn't enough to turn the tides.

I was thinking of mentioning this too! Transforming is arguably safer in teams depending on where you do it, and gives you an edge because your opponent has to deal with a completely different moveset and playstyle. Sheik also has some kill moves that don't need to be sweetspotted for kills, like Fair and Uair, so transforming can be helpful depending. Sheik is also a lot faster than Zelda in general, which definitely has its benefits.

That's interesting to know. Farore's Wind ledge stalling is good as well (if done properly), and I sometimes use that if I want to wait for the Din's Fire to explode and come back.

Arguably, you might be able to the same with Sheik via Shino Stalling, but it's more difficult and there's no fireball coming back to save you haha

 

[TimeSmash]

Meh double posting but sorry.

I'm leaving this topic open for another week, but in an attempt to reinvigorate it I would ask everyone to think of specific team members that complement Zelda and/or specific team combos or strategies that work well with her. This is more or less what we've been doing already, but I would really like to focus on certain character X-Zelda teams and how you think they work. We can also talk about which teammates are bad for Zelda, and even which stages a team with Zelda would like.

For an example of what I'm trying to convey, here's some examples:

Can Zelda's statinary Din's be hit by something like Ivy's Dair to charge the bulb for Solarbeam?
What are setups Zelda can do to easily get a Rest from Jigglypuff as a teammate besides grab?
What are potential aerial walls Zelda could form with teammates (ex. Is something like rushing with Fair and teammate's Knee a legit strategy?)
Because Snake is a traplike character and can also build up some good damage from punishes, how do you think Zelda and Snake complement eachother?
How pluasible is it to set up a high-blast zone Din's and use a move like Kirby or Meta-Kinght's piledriver?
What characters particularly benefit from long-duration moves from Zelda, such as USmash, DThrow, or Nair? How can the teammate take advantage of the hitstun Zelda's putting on the opponent?
How does Zelda fare with a slower teammate, like Peach or even Bowser?
For teammates who have item-like projectiles like Peach or ROB, how does Zelda benefit from having an item in her hand? Is her AGT good?
What stages are crappy for Zelda in teams?\
What stages are crappy for Zelda with certain teammates? (ex. Skyworld slopes mess up Ivysaur's projectile and Dtilt, stages where vertical/horizontal recovery is key for teammate. This one is pretty broad, so you might be able to skip over it)
For any of the mentioned problems, what are potential solutions or remedies?
Not realy Zelda-specific: Do you think it's beneficial to talk to your teammate during a match?

This isn't an exhaustive list but it could give you some ideas. I'm definitely satisfied with our discussion so far, but to fill it out a little more I decided to ask stuff like this. It'd be great to hear your responses!!

 

[4tlas]

These are all great things to discuss.

Odd interactions with specific characters are a good place to start. I have seen Ivy get healed from Dins. Obviously G&W, Ness, and Lucas can double-absorb Dins as well, which is rather potent. Snake's traps are set off by Dins, so I think Snake is unable to use dsmash if Zelda is ever going to use Dins (damn drive-bys). I've been partnering with Snake lately and its fine, we just have to adapt.

Honestly, I don't care much about who my teammate is. I almost entered doubles with a lvl 9 Zelda CPU the other day. I love the teamwork, cooperation, and coordination that goes into teams matches, but I can play teams with pretty much anyone (don't even care about skill level...like 9). The extra bodies limit my opponents' options in ways that allow me to read and outspace them. Hell, I even enjoy 1v2ing more than singles.

I think you meant Skyloft's slopes screw up Ivysaur, but I don't think discussing which teammates screw up stages is really appropriate here. As for Zelda's good/bad stages, I would recommend not going to Norfair. It is a large open stage, but you can't cross it quickly to save a teammate or 2v1 because the platforms or too high, or they're moving, or the stage is just too damn big. I feel similarly about Dracula's, but I don't have enough experience to confirm. And since nobody else has experience there either, I do fine for now.

I like to talk with my teammate. Compliment them when they do well. If your plan doesn't need to be secret (the opponents can't stop it anyway) then just say it. Personally, I love when my teammate and I have a casual conversation while we play. We're usually good friends, so its easy to have a conversation, and it usually makes our opponents foolishly aggressive (trying to take advantage of our "distraction") or ludicrously incompetent (as they get salty because we "aren't taking them seriously"). Casual conversation with my teammate turns into casual conversation with the audience, which turns into casual conversation with the opponents, which turns into a blowout. Anytime you get a team combo, acknowledge it out loud. This gives your teammate confidence and your opponents sodium.

Oh, and remember to thank the goddess Din anytime your teammate combos, gets out of a combo, or gets saved by Dins Fire. Or as my scene is starting to call it, Din's Bull****. Praise the lady.

 

[Downdraft]

Honestly, I think that's the best option. Of course, I didn't think the critical supersweet was over-powered to begin with. The hitbox was 2/3 the size of Rest, Zelda has terrible aerial mobility, and it helped to compensate her other weaknesses. Other tall, light, floaty characters have something that helps alleviate that: Mewtwo has omni-float, Peach has float-cancel and the chance of pulling a Stitch. I always saw the critical as Zelda's compensation. Anyway, that's my digression

I don't recall ever reading this post. Your short argument for the critical heel is a perspective I hadn't realized. This post has moved my unfavorable attitude towards the super sweetspots to a neutral feeling. If the time comes when our opinions are truly valued—evident by future versions addressing our concerns—then I may be a supporter of things I am strongly against if arguments such as these are presented. I like that your post focused more on the design relative to related characters rather than Zelda in a bubble.

Well since we have 2 weeks of kick and no one seems to be continuing the discussion... I've heard a couple people in the skype chat mention that they'd like the 3.5 sweetspot to have the same sfx as the critical did before for that extra satisfaction. Thoughts?

My opinion on the subject is that she might be better off without it since the sfx would draw attention to one of her strengths, which always seem to get nerfed when people notice them

at me replying to these months' old posts because I didn't keep up with the thread when these discussions were live. At the time of your post, I would've said yes because we didn't know that you'd overhaul her animations. I value the appearances of attacks more than the sounds. Might you someday replace the default sound effects for her attacks with more magical or divine sounds?

LOL

A satisfying sound is one that feels powerful. As a powerful move, it is also totally appropriate to have such a sound. Powerful sounds are typically ones that we associate with other powerful things, such as a stroke of lightning or a mighty crash. I loved the Melee "thuum" sound, with the powerful bass. I also loved the critical heel's thunder crackle sound.

I would also happily take D1 yelling "DESTRUCTION"

Must have been part of the homogenization. Note that Falcon's Knee and many other powerful aerials don't sound powerful. Zelda was unique with regards to having an excellent animation and accompanying sound effect for her most powerful aerials. U-air and D-air sweetspots still sound good though.

 

[otheusrex]

Maybe in the future. I don't know how to replace in game sfx with custom out of game ones, but as far as rearranging sfx to create new effects, yes I could and might do that in the future. Thus far, I havent experimented with sfx much

 

[TimeSmash]

Since you're both here discuss some teams stuff so I can round off this topic gorls =P

 

[Downdraft]

Since you're both here discuss some teams stuff so I can round off this topic gorls =P

I have nothing to contribute since I have not entered any doubles tournaments and don't have a regular partner. I haven't attended a tournament in 2 months and won't until school resumes at which point I may be pocketing Zelda anyways. What's the next topic you have in mind?

 

[TimeSmash]

I'm thinking Forward Throw since it seems underused and underdiscussed, and also hasn't been discussed yet haha. I'll leave this open for a little while longer to see if anyone else has anything to say, but around Sunday or so I will change it to that

 

[Downdraft]

I'm thinking Forward Throw since it seems underused and underdiscussed, and also hasn't been discussed yet haha. I'll leave this open for a little while longer to see if anyone else has anything to say, but around Sunday or so I will change it to that

Would you say we've covered all of her reliable options? F-throw and D-throw are not good alone; they're easily DI'd.

 

[TimeSmash]

Would you say we've covered all of her reliable options? F-throw and D-throw are not good alone; they're easily DI'd.

Options in terms of off a throw? I'd have to say no, though I'd imagine that's what a lot of the topic would be about now that you mention it. Because we've talked about so many moves already, there's probably been discussion of what is a good follow-up to Fthrow, but such data could be from 3.02 and it would be extremely tedious to look for, not to mention sparing. I think starting a new discussion about Fthrow uses (like a mixup so the person prepares to DI for Bthrow, for example) and follow-ups would be crucial.

 

[Downdraft]

Options in terms of off a throw? I'd have to say no, though I'd imagine that's what a lot of the topic would be about now that you mention it. Because we've talked about so many moves already, there's probably been discussion of what is a good follow-up to Fthrow, but such data could be from 3.02 and it would be extremely tedious to look for, not to mention sparing. I think starting a new discussion about Fthrow uses (like a mixup so the person prepares to DI for Bthrow, for example) and follow-ups would be crucial.

No, I meant reliable options in terms of movement, attacks, etc, i.e. things that Zelda can input that are good in their own right and not dependent upon other inputs to be good. F-throw and D-throw depend on one another as a supposed DI mix-up and are easily DI'd independently resulting in 0 followups. In that sense, they only increase the opponents' damage, as all attacks do, but there are better alternatives such as U-smash, U-tilt, U-air, and N-air that hold their own.

 

[otheusrex]

Shall we discuss the color purple?

 

[4tlas]

Shall we discuss the color purple?

Base costume is best costume.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Shall we discuss the color purple?

I think Stephen Spielberg did a good job, and Danny Glover was a perfect pick.

On a related note, I will give another blurb on Zelda in teams before the weekend (fingers crossed). I will also comment on all the throws after.

 

[TimeSmash]

Awesome, by that time I will have changed it to FThrow.

No, I meant reliable options in terms of movement, attacks, etc, i.e. things that Zelda can input that are good in their own right and not dependent upon other inputs to be good. F-throw and D-throw depend on one another as a supposed DI mix-up and are easily DI'd independently resulting in 0 followups. In that sense, they only increase the opponents' damage, as all attacks do, but there are better alternatives such as U-smash, U-tilt, U-air, and N-air that hold their own.

I actually think the latter part of what you said is good as well, not that I know many Zeldas who use FThrow a lot anyways, but we sometimes do go over what would be a better option than the move of discussion--I think we did that a while back with consecutive Dtilt usage. In any case, because FThrow is underutilized and DI mixups could lead to something better than what you would get off of something else, I still think it's worthy of discussion. It's a weird and underused throw, but because of that I think it's a topic (albeit a little esoteric) that deserves some discussion, even if it will probably be brief

 

[WhiteCrow]

I use forward throw all the time, it is one the buffs that Zelda got in 3.5 that people don't talk about. With her grab having great reach and how instructively DI our other throws it is an excellent mixup tool. There a lot of ways to DI the move poorly and get re-grabbed, lightning kicked, or tech chased with a teleport or Nayru's. I use it to feel out my opponent and find out what DI they like using when I grab them or after a pummel. It's the fastest throw you can act out of and is absolutely filthy when you've sandwiched your opponent with a Din and your grab. If you grab an opponent (especially a fast faller) and you're close to and facing the ledge, don't back throw them back into center stage. Forward throw>fast fall off stage>reverse Farore ledge grab. The ribbon hit box covers several DI options and immediately gives you ledge invisibility. You can even clip them out of their double jump and put them recovering low and below the ledge.

 

[TimeSmash]

Either I forgot or something but we are now officially talking about FThrow, sorry for the dealy!!

 

[4tlas]

Fthrow is only a DI mixup against people who don't know any better. My opponents always DI it correctly near the ledge, so I need a Dins out in front to put them in a catch 22. They never expect it when bthrow would be close to killing or when they are at low percent and expect a dthrow, but I don't know why they don't just option select the DI since fthrow is way faster than those.

 

[TimeSmash]

Was going to edit this post, but just so everyone gets notifications after an insightful post by @ECHOnce I've decided we're going to start moving in a different direction with this thread and switch from talking about moves every week or two to actual strategies, like combos, edgeguards, and positioning. Because it's a broad field, be sure to post here what you'd want to discuss in the future so i can put stuff on the Idea Board!!

 

[TimeSmash]

So this week we're going to talk about positioning with Zelda in terms of things like how to approach, how to dodge and properly punish your opponent, where you should be concerning ledge stuff, and what have you! Platforms would also fall under this, as well as lite stage discussion. Commence!!

 

[Luis Alonso]

While training under the tutelage of my master/sensei @Zerudahime I was told that Zelda should always space her attacks with the max range of her ftilt as the limit. Given that ftilt is one of Zelda's essential tools for comboing, I feel that there is merit to using ftilt as a basis for spacing.

Her lightning kicks should also be considered heavily when spacing with Zelda. Even though I myself don't use them often, spacing a wall of pain with lightning kicks could prove frightening to a player who is simply shielding. Although a simple misspace of a lightning kick could prove detrimental to Zelda as, unless you purposely meant to sourspot it, your opponent can take advantage of your misspace and your frames of endlag (however slight that may be)

 

[TimeSmash]

Anyone know any good shield crossup stuff? Dair actually does a surprising amount of damage to the shield when sweetspotted, but I fail to follow through a lot

 

[WhiteCrow]

Anyone know any good shield crossup stuff? Dair actually does a surprising amount of damage to the shield when sweetspotted, but I fail to follow through a lot

You can perfect wave land out of a short hop dair, which makes it really good on shield and in neutral. Zelda has a lot of aerial control when performing nair, similarly to Mewtwo's hover nair. Use that to pull away from shields or land through them. Never underestimate the landing hitbox of nair. You can also perfect wave land out of short hop nair but the timing is strict.

As far as positioning I'd like to give my two rupees on ledge positioning. Zelda has the unique ability to teleport directly to the ledge and gain ledge invincibility. While she's very slow and can't make a lot of use of it there are still things you can do with instant ledge invincibility, especially when your opponent is off stage. If you teleport to ledge and do a normal getup and hold shield (while you're under 100%) you can get a shield up very quickly. Between the ledge invincibility you get and the protection of your shield, there are only 4 frames where you are vulnerable to attacks. Teleport to ledge>ledge drop>rising nair also makes use of ledge invincibility by countering a variety of recovery attempts. From ledge you can also ledge jump>LC Nayru's, ledge jump>wave bounce Din's Fire>re-grab lege, edge dash>grab, and ledge drop>rising up air auto cancelled (great against tethers). Zelda can also perform no impacting landings from the ledge, allowing her to ledge drop>jump>any move and be standing on the stage. She can even hax dash from the ledge!

I think that Zelda has a lot of options from the ledge which makes it a surprisingly safe place to hang out. Follow the words of M2K, the ledge is your friend.

 

[luxingo]

You can perfect wave land out of a short hop dair... You can also perfect wave land out of short hop nair but the timing is strict.

Is the waveland timing actually different for these two aerials? I thought they were the same and it seems like they are from my debug mode testing.

If you teleport to ledge and do a normal getup and hold shield (while you're under 100%) you can get a shield up very quickly.

That's true (at 33 frames), but FYI the fastest way seems to be ledge jump to airdodge into the ground (22 frames), then ledge drop, jump, waveland (~24 frames). That said, there are more vulnerable frames in the ledge jump method.

From ledge you can also ... ledge jump>wave bounce Din's Fire>re-grab ledge

Oooo, that sounds cool. I'll make sure to practice that. Thanks for the post.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Is the waveland timing actually different for these two aerials? I thought they were the same and it seems like they are from my debug mode testing.

That's true (at 33 frames), but FYI the fastest way seems to be ledge jump to airdodge into the ground (22 frames), then ledge drop, jump, waveland (~24 frames). That said, there are more vulnerable frames in the ledge jump method.

Oooo, that sounds cool. I'll make sure to practice that. Thanks for the post.

Mess around with wave landing out of dair and nair and you'll feel the difference. You have to start the nair imidiatly after leaving the ground and the timing is still harder than dair. I choose not to learn ledge jump>air dodge into ground because it isn't possible in Melee. I want to be decent at both games so I don't want to force too much tech that doesn't carry over. You can also ledge jump>wave bounce Nayru's>ledge re-grab but the timing is unreliably strict.

 

[Luis Alonso]

It's not just nair and dair that have ample timing for wavelands.

I use fair wavelands very often to safely space myself in the case of a missed lightning kick.

 

[TimeSmash]

No one hate me because I haven't been on here in quite some time. What topics would y'all like to talk about next??

 

[4tlas]

No one hate me because I haven't been on here in quite some time. What topics would y'all like to talk about next??

I really think we should talk about stages. Alternatively, talk about OoS. Or talk about Dins pathing and using it to your advantage.

 

[noobftw]

In depth discussion about stages sounds great. I would love to hear all your guy's preferences and reasoning behind some stages against certain characters. And how people deal with certain platform and which movement options or moves do they use to cover platform shenanigans.

 

[Luis Alonso]

I greatly prefer Battlefield.

Having a mastery over telecanceling, I can easily mix up my approach options by suddenly teleporting to the top platform, then back down to stage, then to any of the side platforms, confusing my opponents and rendering them in awe at my immaculate control and stuff.

Also, I can recover through an aerial telecancel on the platforms 90% of the time. Of course I plan on bringing it up to 100%, but baby steps are important.

I like FoD for the same reasons. Distant Planet is fun too, especially when you telecancel on the leaf, wait for it to drop, telecancel through the leaf and mushroom into edge-cancel bair. They won't know what hit them.

Smashville is great too. Coming in deep from the bottom to a telecancel on the platform always takes the opponent by surprise. Also repeatedly telecanceling in place while the platform is moving is mindgames against the opponent. They never know when you are going to decide to just go down and smack them with a ftilt.

Between Yoshi's Story and Wario Land, I'd go with YS. Same reasons as Battlefield, except that the platforms are slightly over the edge which means you can Farore's Wind into autosnap. Not very useful, but the more options the better.

 

[TimeSmash]

Stage discussion would be awesome! I'll change the title to reflect it. Sorry for not updating a lot--I'm a month into my program and it is definitely hard as balls. Anyways,

Though I haven't played in a while, I always thought WarioWare (or WarioWorld now?) was an interesting stage for Zelda. It's very high-risk high reward for Zelda. While we have narrow stage boundaries, a kick or even moves like FSmash and Bthrow are really great tools to use here. I can't remember if Zelda's Utilt goes through the botttom platforms here, someone please confirm. You also don't leave your opponent with a lot of breathing room, though neither do they, so it's a double edged sword

However, while it's a stage where Zelda can get relatively easy kills, she also gets killed really easily. Never face a Marth here lmao. Trying to get a lot of space between your opponent and you will not be succesful

 

[WhiteCrow]

Give me a few days (Paragon hype) and I'll talk more about what I think are Zelda's worst stages in singles. Hint: Includes Yoshi's Whatever, Battefled, and Nofair. Maybe I'll make a video of it.

 

[Vitriform]

I can't remember if Zelda's Utilt goes through the botttom platforms here, someone please confirm.

Utilt does go through the bottom platforms on Warioware. It also goes through the top platforms if you're standing on the bottom platforms.

 

[BlueLettuce]

My Humble (Newish to PM) Opinion.
Battlefield: (I generally strike)
This is probably my least favorite stage as Zelda (tied with yoshi's brawl). IMO Zelda is not optimized by juggling on platforms. Her u-air pops people up, but is easy for the opponent to get away due to high knockback. Her n-air is great for covering platform techs, but she will only get one chase before it sends them to the side.

So platforms don't do much for her offense, what about defense? It does add to your movement. Tele-cancel can help you move around your opponent and force reactions out of them. The issue I find is once you are sent in the air it is hard to get back down. Early percent juggles ending on a platform will pretty much guarantee another followup against a good opponent. Poor aerial mobility also makes it pretty obvious which direction and platforms you have available to you and can generally be covered fairly well.

+Good amount of space to maneuver.
+**Platforms offer an escape.
-Platforms are too high for you to cover from the ground forcing you to commit to an aerial.
-**Platforms can offer an escape in desperate situation, BUT also keep you above your opponent.

Anyway I am sure @ WhiteCrow will give a much more detailed description of battlefield, but hey, putting this on paper helps me think critically of the stage. In retrospect I haven't played much on this stage for the reasons stated. My experience is very limited, and as always is criticism is welcome. I will try to add, in greater detail, descriptions of stages I regularly get taken to or like as my own counter picks.