Tricking people into using bad DI with Bthrow

[Delvro]

Ok, so Bthrow can be a killing move at like 140%. The problem is that it's horrendously easy to DI it because luigi spins around in circles, and they go straight up for the corner.

So here's what I've started doing.
Get a grab near the edge of the stage, facing the edge of the stage, and fthrow them off the stage. This is to condition to DI away from the edge (you probably don't even have to condition it, it's a natural reaction when you land a grab near the edge of the stage). Then, when they're at 130% up, get a grab near the edge of the stage, facing the edge of the stage (exactly like before) and Bthrow them all the way across the stage for the kill.

It doesn't sound like it should work but your opponent's DI, which WOULD'VE been good vs an Fthrow, is BAD vs a Bthrow. Sometimes they go at a nearly horizontal angle and die at 130%.

Best used on narrow stages like Yoshi's Island brawl and Frigate. Sometimes Battlefield.

And of course it only works on opponents who know what DI is. You can't trick a fool!

 

[kigbariom]

I thought it kills before 140%, are you sure?

 

[Delvro]

depends on DI and stage... Bthrow on a platform on battlefield will net you 130% or even less maybe if you're lucky

 

[Magus420]

How do you 'trick' someone into DIing it wrong when the b-throw is slow enough that they can be DIing for a f-throw and still easily react to you starting a b-throw and then adjust their DI for that before it ends anyway?

 

[Delvro]

Some combination of lack of in-depth knowledge of Luigi's animations (or confusing them with other characters animations that have different trajectories, like wario's Fthrow) as well as common DI habits that players inevitably have when in certain situations in Brawl.

The Bthrow is long enough that an opponent can DI properly if they think that it is a possible option that you might perform. So a person who is expecting Fthrow *or* Bthrow can DI quickly enough to change his DI if you start a Bthrow.
But, if the player rules out Bthrow and prepares himself for Fthrow or Dthrow instead... then your activation of Option 3... I.E. Bthrow... might just provide enough surprise to slow reaction time enough to work.

I HAVE tried this against good players who know how to DI, and it seems to work at times. Honestly I debated putting this up at all because it's fairly situational and if you do it against your friends more than once or twice they'll catch on.

BUT!.... if in a tournament you get a grab at 135% and you don't know what to do with it... it's a possibile kill even from across the stage.

 

[PolMex23]

Better to bait them into a grab by camping hard if youve allowed them to live past 150...I go for uptilt or bthrow when past 150 works like a charm...

upTilt outta shield is amazing

 

[petey_did_it]

dont listen to polmex hes pretty bad

 

[Delvro]

I love uptilt for kills when they get high percent

...after re-reading my first post it sounds really dumb. But it seriously works in the right situation, I promise!

 

[hippiedude92]

lol. been doing this long time ago. just not for same reason. I just use fthrow when im near the edge so i can save bthrow for later.
@polmex i agree as well.

 

[Atash]

dont listen to polmex hes pretty bad

Why would you say that...?

@ Delvro:
Dang - you're really pushing for a better Luigi metagame.

It's an interesting mindgame, but, as you yourself stated, and I'm about to paraphrase you in a questionable way, it isn't reliable. Regardless, I'm going to try it :-D

 

[Gea]

Considering how poorly most players react to moves and DI accordingly, this working does not surprise me in the least. I might die from DIing too far upwards, but I don't think this would get me from surprise, lol.

 

[Delvro]

Why would you say that...?

@ Delvro:
Dang - you're really pushing for a better Luigi metagame.

It's an interesting mindgame, but, as you yourself stated, and I'm about to paraphrase you in a questionable way, it isn't reliable. Regardless, I'm going to try it :-D

I'd really like to see Luigi become viable in tournaments. Right now I almost feel like it's a lost cause... I can two stock people's mains in tournaments and they can switch to Metaknight (which they've played for a week) and beat me.

I am frustrated!!!!!

 

[Atash]

I'd really like to see Luigi become viable in tournaments. Right now I almost feel like it's a lost cause... I can two stock people's mains in tournaments and they can switch to Metaknight (which they've played for a week) and beat me.

I am frustrated!!!!!

The problem is that there are quite a few things that Meta Knight can do against Luigi that is totally impossible to punish. Well, no, that isn't the problem. The problem is that Meta Knight can do them repeatedly and that each action has a large tolerance for human error. Someone said somewhere (I can't remember who) that a Meta Knight that has any idea of what Meta Knight can do to Luigi will pretty much always beat Luigi. There's little to nothing that Luigi has against that guy what with our crap range (O'! We haveth an eternal problem with quickened blades)...

Thus my personal opinion is that, against the two ranged and priority-hogs that are the bane of Luigi's existence (MK and G&W), one should have a secondary character (mine is Kirby against MK; against G&W I have nothing). But that's just me...

Question (that I should probably ask in the Q&A thread, or even the match-up thread) while on the subject of going against MK (keeping in mind that Luigi's U-tilt clanks with Kirby's F-smash): What can Luigi do to clank with MK's various attacks?

 

[Delvro]

you can clank glide attack with an uptilt, that's it really

sometimes you can get an up b out of it but it's pretty tough to do

 

[Jiom]

why trick them when you can go for the shoryuken

 

[J-Money]

you could always grab them, lie to them by telling them that your going to use f throw and b throw instead. Massive mindgames

 

[hippiedude92]

Pretty much MK's glide atk has crap priority. Alot of our stuff clank with his glide atk but that's pretty much it. Pretty sad ain't it? :3. I usually keep Luigi against MK, but if their too hard, maybe I'll go as Mario, if not ill use my secondary as Marth.

 

[kigbariom]

Trick them into a shoryuken, it's hard to pull it off without the element of surprise or speed.
Also once you have them in your grab, tricking them into bad DI is a favorable situation.

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

If they're at 130% or more, just do a sliding dsmash

 

[kigbariom]

Even at 100% if you can double hit. But at 100% you can f-smash anyway.
But that is all beside the point, this thread is for, when you have actually grabbed someone, how you can trick them into bad DI and perhaps KO them.

 

[bobson]

If you're able to trick people into bad DI on bthrow, you should take into consideration the notion that you may, in fact, have telepathy.

 

[Delvro]

Yeah, we pretty much agree that it's not really too useful, except maybe on people who aren't familiar with Luigi at all.

 

[PolMex23]

Just when someone is at high %, keep on camping an spacing gay untill your bair delivers enough % to them to lure them in into a back throw