Trans-Phobia in the smash community.

[TaFoKiNtS]

I'll write a response when I'm less tired and can think straight

 

[Deleted member]

I think anything that can be seen as a threat to one's sexual identity is going to create a stigma. It's not something that most people can relate to, and it's not really reasonable to expect empathy from others that can not meaningfully share your insight. It would be better for you to expect an adverse reaction and to just be pleasantly surprised on the occasions where there is none. It does not particularly excuse an ignorant response, but it would be better for you to accept the reality of your situation and to work with it rather than to hope for something that is unlikely to happen.

I also dislike the LBGT community in the same was that I dislike feminism, the man-o-sphere, cults/religion (same thing), or any of that ****. Sometimes those individuals make valid points but just as much other individuals use a group identity to legitimize obnoxious behavior. When you analyze it on the whole, something like the lesbian community and the trans-gender community really have no common ground other than some misguided sense of group sexual deviance. It is generally disadvantageous to advertise your group as multi-variate and deviant in its presentation when you're seeking social acceptance.

If you truly want sexism, racism, classicism, etc. to go away, the best thing you can do is to stop talking about it. Bringing it to the table as an issue repeatedly will only ensure that it stays an issue indefinitely.

 

[smashbroskilla]

I don't think sexuality preference has any place at a tournament. Anyone who watches SF4 streams know Ricky Ortiz and he's a badass player. He's openly gay and has no problem making that known. When I saw him on a stream one day wearing a see through black mesh shirt and designer glasses during a match I couldn't help but ask myself "wtf is he doing"? He wanted the attention and people to talk about him on stream and that's exactly what he got. I'm a heterosexual male, I don't need to wear clothes reminding you that I am one though. I'm there to play a game, not have someone assume my sexual orientation and start gossip. Now OP I'm not saying that you or the other individuals in question are;, I'm saying I've seen blatent cries for attention and that's what they get.

Let me say before you think I'm a "gay" hater my ex landlord and friend is gay and I went to dinner with two very butch lesbians Saturday night that are long time friends. I just think there's a time and place for everything and expressing sexuality at a tournament is not one of them.

Can anyone post a link to the video in question? I'm not going to sort through 3-4 hours of stream footage to find it.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I think everyone knows that lovage is a moron and first class virgin. so should you

Doesn't mean this **** can't or shouldn't be called out

You should probably "grow as a person" some more. mature people dont post things like this. you would have gone to the root of the problem if there was one

People like you and me who aren't trans have the privilege of not being affected by this kind of **** and can treat it as background noise. If she says there's a problem, she knows better than either one of us. Seems pretty mature to me to call it to attention.

also youre confusing "trans-phobia" with immaturity.

Not a big difference. Intentional transphobia can't exist without immaturity.

I don't think trans-phobia in and of itself is prevalent enough in the smash community (could easily be wrong on this, I don't travel too much, am only really part of the Brawl community and on top of all of that I'm from Canada where we're pretty open minded about stuff like this, so I don't really deal with this stuff and thus am probably fairly biased) for this to be considered a community problem. Really it's about addressing the bad apples in the community.

Our scene had some pretty bad transphobia before you and I came around. I won't delve into details for privacy reasons. It's gotten much, much better up here in Canada though.

You were born with balls right? Use them, all this whining and crying and pro liberalism has become a trend around here lately and its not healthy. This is coming from someone who is gay as a whistle and yet refuses the gay culture of crying to obama and web communities instead of solving your own problems and having balls. My friend you are simply confused, if you were a girl you would have been born that way babe (words from the gospel of the lord and savior to my people lady gaga)

Go back to reddit. Pro tip: Gender reductionism is bad biology

that doesnt mean i go around talking **** about ******* or make rude remarks.

OH THE IRONING

Literally no person would care if a normal person changed their name, so don't expect the general population to respect your feelings regarding a name.

Why not lol? If someone tells you they have a new name why would you refuse to call them their new name? Like literally what does anyone gain by refusing to call someone by the name or pronoun they respond to

The only reason i didnt refer you to your new name is because i personally didnt like any of your posts on smashboards and the way you type things came off as cocky when you were no where near good at this game. Your a **** trying to start drama when i havent said or done anything to u in over a year. Get over yourself and your "transformation". If i see you in person i wont hesitate to ****ing **** talk you. Get the **** outa here u low life drama seeking ****.

I'm gonna start calling you Nancy from now on just because of this post

I prefer to **** chicks doggystyle.

...did you want to know that? Because I'm tired as hell of hearing about what everybody else prefers doing to/with their genitals.
It's ****ing gross. Keep that **** to yourself.

Yo dude not everyone who is trans has sexual reassignment surgery, this isnt about genitals

I remember hearing gay used as a derogatory term by one of the announcers this weekend. I know it sucks at the least to be oppressed but try and remember these people are here to play smash cause they like playing video games. Not because they're smart and caring individuals

Until smash becomes apart of something big like MLG again there probably won't be any major changes in the styles of commentary

Anyone remember when Scar and Prog banned "gay" and "****" from MioM? Some dude tried to point out that they were "wrong" to do so and got downvoted to oblivion on /r/smashbros. If ****ing Reddit of all places can support a change like that I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say it's within reach if ppl care enough to shoot for it

Like don't get me wrong, transphobia is bad. Most of the community would agree (hopefully). I'd fight for your rights, but you're not making a good name for transgendered people.

I know you mean well but this is really bad of you. "I think you said a rude thing on the internet so I'm considering not supporting your human rights"

You're equating people calling you a "he" as being transphobic. If you're looking to be offended everywhere you go, then you'll never be happy. I accidentally called you a "he" once and you went ballistic on me. Was it cause I was trying to be insensitive? Not at all, but you react as such. Not everyone is out to get transgendered people

I also acknowledge there's probably worse things that have been done other than misusing pronouns, but yea..

That's not "looking" to be offended. She has every right to be offended at being misgendered. Like how just about every dude on this planet gets offended if you call them a girl. Maybe shes just had enough of that **** and thats why she freaked out? Maybe you werent trying to be insensitive but it sounds like you werent really trying to be understanding either if u think being yelled at for misgendering is as bad or worse than beign misgendered. Using the wrong pronoun doesn't necessarily make you a transphobe but it is transphobic behaviour. Like how you can accidentally say something racist without actually being a racist

It's not as easy as that. I did the same with someone at a tournament a year ago and got a rude "freedom of speech, I can say what I want" response.

You don't understand, freedom of speech means I can say what I want where I want with no consequences or criticism because this is murica!!!!!1111

The fact that you are giving ****s about what ppl say to you is the problem. They can call you whatever they want, it is up to you to hang out with them or be close to them. Only when the problem becomes physical is when you should care. People are ignorant, and you just have to accept that. If threats are made, speak up and search for help. End of story.

I'm sure you mean well but this is really bad advice. "Sticks and stones" is easy enough to say when you're never going to have to put up with misgendering as a trans person

awesome ****

fukken signed!

it's not really reasonable to expect empathy from others that can not meaningfully share your insight.

Sure it is. If you suck at empathy and have no mental condition that makes you unable to change that then you just suck in general

I also dislike the LBGT community in the same was that I dislike feminism, the man-o-sphere, cults/religion (same thing), or any of that ****. Sometimes those individuals make valid points but just as much other individuals use a group identity to legitimize obnoxious behavior. When you analyze it on the whole, something like the lesbian community and the trans-gender community really have no common ground other than some misguided sense of group sexual deviance. It is generally disadvantageous to advertise your group as multi-variate and deviant in its presentation when you're seeking social acceptance.

I'm more than willing to bed that this "dislike" of all those communities comes from knowing very little about them. LGBT has a lot of internal divide and it's a ****ty acronym because trans isn't even a sexual orientation and campaigns like the HRC actively exclude them. There's actually a ****load of transphobia in the lesbian community for example

If you truly want sexism, racism, classicism, etc. to go away, the best thing you can do is to stop talking about it. Bringing it to the table as an issue repeatedly will only ensure that it stays an issue indefinitely.

That's actually the worst thing you can do. No widespread social problem has ever gone away by not talking about it

I don't think sexuality preference has any place at a tournament. Anyone who watches SF4 streams know Ricky Ortiz and he's a badass player. He's openly gay and has no problem making that known. When I saw him on a stream one day wearing a see through black mesh shirt and designer glasses during a match I couldn't help but ask myself "wtf is he doing"? He wanted the attention and people to talk about him on stream and that's exactly what he got. I'm a heterosexual male, I don't need to wear clothes reminding you that I am one though. I'm there to play a game, not have someone assume my sexual orientation and start gossip. Now OP I'm not saying that you or the other individuals in question are;, I'm saying I've seen blatent cries for attention and that's what they get.

Let me say before you think I'm a "gay" hater my ex landlord and friend is gay and I went to dinner with two very butch lesbians Saturday night that are long time friends. I just think there's a time and place for everything and expressing sexuality at a tournament is not one of them.

Yeah what the hell does he think he's doing wearing what he feels like wearing like the rest of us do






this thread holy ****

 

[rawrimamonster]

I've got a few lbgt friends here and there, a few of them being my best friends. I dont mind them or treat them as any different than any other person really. As long as lgbt people keep their tumblr agenda out of their interactions with other people though there most likely will be less of a problem. I say this because, as much as people need to realize how they treat others, I think the lgbt community also is very reactionary in their dealings with their aggressors and often pushes their idealism and problems in a just as aggressive way on others who might not know or be ready to deal with who or what they are. Just something to keep in mind. I dont know the whole situation here but if it was bad enough to make a thread out of someone just needs to be a bit more respectful, that's all. As much as people shouldn't treat you badly just because of your life choices, you should realize that there are people who will not openly and generally accept what you choose, and this is completely regardless of their sexuality, it just bugs some ppl.

tl;dr
if you push a mind of activism towards people, that is a direct mirror to how they're treating you, just on a opposite side of the spectrum. The smash community is gruff and uncaring and threads like these will just smack a beehive with a stick . Everyone, whether straight or lgbt needs to grow some thicker skin and deal with eachother how they are.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I've got a few lbgt friends here and there, a few of them being my best friends. I dont mind them or treat them as any different than any other person really. As long as lgbt people keep their tumblr agenda out of their interactions with other people though there most likely will be less of a problem. I say this because, as much as people need to realize how they treat others, I think the lgbt community also is very reactionary in their dealings with their aggressors and often pushes their idealism and problems in a just as aggressive way on others who might not know or be ready to deal with who or what they are. Just something to keep in mind. I dont know the whole situation here but if it was bad enough to make a thread out of someone just needs to be a bit more respectful, that's all. As much as people shouldn't treat you badly just because of your life choices, you should realize that there are people who will not openly and generally accept what you choose, and this is completely regardless of their sexuality, it just bugs some ppl.

tl;dr
if you push a mind of activism towards people, that is a direct mirror to how they're treating you, just on a opposite side of the spectrum. The smash community is gruff and uncaring and threads like these will just smack a beehive with a stick . Everyone, whether straight or lgbt needs to grow some thicker skin and deal with eachother how they are.

I for one do not at all feel bad for people who aren't "ready" to "deal" with who LGBT people are lol, howcome no one is ever telling them to just get used to it

also i don't understand why everyone keeps trying to make this out to be mizuki vs the rest of the smash community? telling her to "accept it" or "realize that this is how ppl are" is the ****tiest advice that ever **** - not only is that ALREADY THE REALITY OF HER DAILY LIFE LOL, but are we forgetting that the smash community is made up of all of us? it shouldn't be like "hitting a beehive with a stick" so instead of being a bunch of defeatist losers some of the more progressive members should be setting an example. even just one of us interjecting with saying "she" when someone says "he" counts, simply not using words like "gay" unless actually describing a gay person, etc

 

[rawrimamonster]

All I was saying is, getting upset over what wont change is like trying to throw eggs at a brick wall trying to break it down. You can still make your way AND make change by going around the wall instead of being bullheaded and trying to go through the wall with objects that will not break through anything. This is a reasonable compromise. I think everyone would come out a better person because of it. Try educating people and opening up instead of trying to change them. I think the OP post did little to educate compared to what it did to complain.

White knighting for people that I'm not targeting wont change what I said, facts are facts. I just felt like giving my two cents on this subject, that's all. I actually didn't really read beyond the OP much because I figured it'd be a ****storm anyway like these topics usually end up as on any board.

 

[pidgezero_one]

All I was saying is, getting upset over what wont change

liek i said in my last post, saying it "wont change" is false unless you really dont want it to change. it's a useless copout and is not a "compromise". instead of making it out to be "she should go around the wall instead of her attempts to break it down with eggs" you could make it out to be "why don't we help make it easier for her to get around the wall?" kind of like i already said by talking about setting an example

I think the OP post did little to educate compared to what it did to complain.

and that's entirely her right to complain. i think you can most likely understand why not everyone feels particularly inclined to play ms. friendly kindergarten teacher when they dont even get the basic respect of being called by their own gender or name. educators get paid, the **** are y'all paying OP if you're demanding she educate you? when someone says "transphobia is a problem and im ****ing tired of it" the readers can always search "transphobia" on google.com if they are genuinely interested in being educated...

White knighting

O SRY DID I TOUCH A NERVE LOL? give me a break

 

[Deleted member]

your advice isn't realistic. well-meaning, sure, but unrealistic all the same. to expect everyone around you to adapt to you is setting one's self up for future frustrations. it's also somewhat narcissistic. it is better to change one's self than to expect change from others, as you have control over the former but not the latter. weston's post should have made that abundantly clear.

 

[Morphine]

^ why do I feel like this is an alt account or something???

Anyway, I'll be honest when it comes to competitive gaming I don't see why sexuality makes a difference at all. It's the same as say, competitive combat like wrestling or something where you have to make physical contact. Then I could understand if some people were concerned about the sexuality of others but there isn't any physical contact being made aside from a few high fives and fist bumps. So, If we are showing up to compete for the title of best in the venue on that day why does someone's sexuality matter at all? It should be as important as the color of someone's shoes or the hair(meaning not important at all).

Our game has undergone so many changes from it's early days to this very moment and it continues to change. Especially in it's meta where we've seen golden and dark ages for many players and characters alike. We've seen the same changes occur when it comes to Melee's place among other games. Going from basements and church to the major venues, back to the depths from which it came and now it's come roaring back onto the world stage.

What we have yet to see is our community dissipate it's the phobias. Part of it could have something to do with our confrontational base. Country vs Country, state vs state, region vs region, coast vs coast, north vs south, east vs west. I think some people forget that we are all on the same side at the end of the day. We love this game, want share our love for this game and it's unique brand of competitive play with people who see it the way we do. Melee symbolizes the universe we live in. Out of all the random chaotic we have this artistically brilliant game that is not perfect but we seek to perfect it in our own way. Much like ourselves in our everyday lives. If this is forgotten/never realized within our community perhaps it deserves to one day die out just like us, just like the universe.

Damn this was really good man... Hit the nail on the head

 

["Shion"]

If any of you are feeling defensive about OP's first post, then go hang yourselves.

Even the vocabulary used by the smash community is downright offensive.

 

[GreenKirby]

All I was saying is, getting upset over what wont change is like trying to throw eggs at a brick wall trying to break it down.

Nice. Victim blaming. Just what we needed

You can still make your way AND make change by going around the wall instead of being bullheaded and trying to go through the wall with objects that will not break through anything. This is a reasonable compromise.

Golden means fallacy. What compromise could there be between someone who doesn't want to be harassed for being a transgender and transphobes who want to harass?

I think everyone would come out a better person because of it. Try educating people and opening up instead of trying to change them. I think the OP post did little to educate compared to what it did to complain.

I think everyone would be better if we didn't defend the transphobes and call them out on their bigotry

White knighting for people that I'm not targeting wont change what I said, facts are facts. I just felt like giving my two cents on this subject, that's all. I actually didn't really read beyond the OP much because I figured it'd be a ****storm anyway like these topics usually end up as on any board.

Yes people are totally defending someone, they will probably never meet in real life, just for her to sleep with them.

 

[_fRee_]

All I know is that Vixen is a human being just like everyone else and my respect and decency certainly extend to her as well as anyone else who walks this Earth. I would ask of others is to try to imagine how difficult it would be to go through the process of transitioning and having to deal with a lot of **** from a lot of different people because of it. I certainly believe that my faith supports treating all trans people with decency; say what you will about Christian views on sexuality, Jesus would absolutely treat everyone, trans people included, with respect and compassion.

I also ask that my fellow smashers who do believe in a more accepting view of trans people would not respond to the community's ignorance with insults and mockery. When I say this, I don't at all mean to minimize the difficulties of being trans, and I don't mean to legitimize bigotry, but there is no sense in judging someone harshly for a belief of theirs that they inherited from the status quo. I used to call people **** all the time in middle school but that was really just because everyone around me said it and because I was insecure about ****. And to be fair, slang, slurs, and opinions on sexualities can be seen as part of one's own identity; it's not easy changing stuff like that (so thanks to those that work to do so!). I really don't think that people who make comments that seem bigoted are bad people, I think they maybe just haven't met that many trans or (insert category here) people or haven't been educated about it.

When it comes to issues of social progress, I think it's important to look to my homies Gandhi and MLK for how to go about making change. Be vocal but understanding, stern but compassionate. Always stand up for your beliefs and always question your ill-will towards those you are trying to convince. Being respectful in these critical moments is our best way to persuade others of our beliefs. We're not crazy people, and what we're trying to sell here is kindness, so there's no sense in betraying the essence of our beliefs.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Some people cant be reasoned with or come out the better person I guess. Victim complexes win again.

 

[Spiffykins]

If you truly want sexism, racism, classicism, etc. to go away, the best thing you can do is to stop talking about it. Bringing it to the table as an issue repeatedly will only ensure that it stays an issue indefinitely.

I feel a lot better about my position on this issue now that I know it's more or less the opposite of yours. I dread the day I actually agree with you on anything significant. Fortunately for me, if everything you say continues to be this dumb, that's unlikely to happen.

your advice isn't realistic. well-meaning, sure, but unrealistic all the same. to expect everyone around you to adapt to you is setting one's self up for future frustrations. it's also somewhat narcissistic. it is better to change one's self than to expect change from others, as you have control over the former but not the latter. weston's post should have made that abundantly clear.

Well, if there's one person I won't ever try to change, it's probably you. We need you around just as you are in order to measure the stupidity of other people. It's the perfect middle ground. You're smart enough to express your opinions in plain, readable English that tempts people to take what you say seriously, but just stupid enough for every opinion you have to be infuriatingly wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

[l will find peace]

ad hominem is where you use a character attack in an attempt to disprove what someone else says

hes not doing that

 

["Shion"]

He's also a fool.

 

[Morphine]

I've been on the internet for quite sometime (pre 2008 4chan) and for every bigot and transponder I've seen on Facebook and forums(half of these children won't dare repeat what they say in person) there's another guy who's sexual preference is with transwomen in specific.

I think it really comes down to how some people are raised/grow up. So many bigots came from families that taught homosexuals and the like are undesired traits( and that's more credit than even they are willing to give as far as their belief in being born that way). Or they grew up in societies that felt similar. Just to clarify this is only one example but a common one at that.

 

[l will find peace]

homosexuals arent traits

you sound like youre bigoted against bigots

and i live in the south, and have never had anyone ever say or imply that homosexuality was undesirable or inferior

you guys live in a dream world lol

oh yea, and no one has even provided a link to this thing that "happened." the archive is on twitch. if you want credibility against the the people youre accusing (one of whom actively denies that anything took place) then just show everyone the proof thats just sitting there, waiting to be found.

if you cant do that then lol

 

[TriforceOSM]

As one who has also faced discrimination for an unchangeable condition, I have to say that I agree with those that feel you are whining. I suffer from an incurable skin disease called eczema (don't bother looking up cases of eczema, because you will not find any as bad as mine). Mine was diagnosed as a severe case of Chronic Atopic Dermatitis or in other words a severe case of a severe version of eczema. I also suffer from almost every allergy known to man: milk, nuts (all kinds), fish (all kinds), eggs, wheat, dust, dog-dander, cat-dander, roach-dander (wtf?), etc. that visibly inflames my skin.

Now, when I decided to go to my first tournament, I KNEW that I would be discriminated against: I expected it. I went with the notion that if I display my level of skill, it will overpower the distasteful look of my skin. I went to these tournaments for the purpose of playing Brawl competitively though, and not to actually join the community. You (the OP), on the other hand, may have decided to go to these tournaments solely for the pleasure of being around people that love video games like you. In this case, you should have definitely known that there would be some people that have trouble dealing with your situation, just like in EVERY community.

If you decided that you were going to change your gender, why wouldn't you prepare for the discrimination that follows? Sure, it's a problem that a few individuals in this community are willing to discriminate against an incurable problem, but that's just the case. There will always be people (idiots) who feel that degrading others will somehow increase their reputation or some other dumb ****. There's nothing wrong with bringing this problem to light, but calling out on the person who did it is a bit immature in my opinion.

 

[Morphine]

H

homosexuals arent traits

you sound like youre bigoted against bigots

and i live in the south, and have never had anyone ever say or imply that homosexuality was undesirable or inferior

you guys live in a dream world lol

oh yea, and no one has even provided a link to this thing that "happened." the archive is on twitch. if you want credibility against the the people youre accusing (one of whom actively denies that anything took place) then just show everyone the proof thats just sitting there, waiting to be found.

if you cant do that then lol

... I'm in the south right now surrounded by people who believe homosexuality isn't a trait but a personal choice. You're wrong

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

This is a very real problem within the community. To me, this is an important community and was an integral part of my coming out and transitioning. Feeling uncomfortable within the main community I participate is a very real problem for me, and other trandgenders within the community.

Specifically, I would like to call to attention posts, and comments made by Lovage and Westballz during the Kings of Cali tournament series.

Before KoC1, I changed my tag, and began to present and live as female. This was to symbolize my growing as a person and leaving behind the person I used to be. KoC was to be my first OOS tournament as a new person/ Lovage and Westballs were openly and publicly offensive towards me and my transition, outright refusing to refer to me by my preferred gender and name.

KoC 2 and 3, Lovage made thinly veiled trans-phobic remarks towards Corigames, a player in attendance, basically denying that she's a woman/implying she's less of a woman than a ciswoman.

During Apex 2013 several players referred to me using male pronouns, or outright calling me "******" and other offensive comments while outwardly presenting as female and insisting I be called by my preferred gender.

This thread is to call this practice in to question, and make it more aware to the community at large. Smash community, be the better community. Trans-phobia is very rampant in other competitive communities, in fact, moreso in the fgc than smash. Let's strive to eliminate this and set an example for others. We have a very active LBGT community, with many of our community figureheads being of alternate sexualities. Why can't alternative gender identity and expression be as accepted as sexuality?

As a gay, happily married man, I have only this to say:

Go back to Tumblr where you belong.

Anyone supporting this post has no idea how social progress works. It was never made with angry posts on the internet and never will be. Social acceptance happens over time naturally as the socially oppressed become more visible, exposed, and common. Social phobias are merely a fear of things people don't understand. It's unfortunate that bad things have happened to us, but your only real option is to grow a pair and deal with it. These kinds of diatribes do absolutely nothing, for better or for worse.

 

[ph00tbag]

Can we get a couple things straight here?

1. Mizuki is not attempting to make this thread about her. She's actually trying to make it about us as a whole, and how we can be more tolerant in general. The problem isn't that Mizuki feels specifically abused--although that is certainly a problem, but should be dealt with on a more individual scale--the problem is that what happened to her is not isolated, and is symptomatic of a greater intolerance towards transgender individuals. It is when other accuse her of wanting attention for herself that this thread becomes about someone other than all of us. And even then, it's not about Mizuki, it's about your own discomfort with the subject matter, which is the least useful position to talk about.

2. The entire point is that whether someone is gay, straight, trans, bi, or purple really shouldn't be something we draw attention to on stream, outside of using preferred pronouns. This thread would definitely be unnecessary if we could just call transgender people by their preferred pronoun and then let their gameplay do the rest of the talking. All we should really care about is if they can make good players look like scrubblenauts.

3. Having gay friends does nothing to free you from accusations of bigotry. Just because you like one or two gay people (and I can only wonder how much the feeling is reciprocated) does not mean you tolerate homosexuality as a whole. And it sure as **** doesn't mean you tolerate transgenderedness, since that doesn't even necessarily have anything to do with sexual orientation.

4. It's okay to be uncomfortable with the topic of gender identity. Most of us were never raised with that being a thing. It's new and different and doesn't really fit into any models most of us have constructed in our minds for ways of being, and any time that happens, discomfort is a natural reaction. I don't begrudge anyone for feeling totally confused and out of control in that kind of situation. Because nothing is scarier that things we don't understand. But for anyone to blame the object of their confusion for their discomfort by calling them weird or wrong, is really just plain selfishness, because you're drawing attention to your own discomfort. Rather than force others to change that which can't be changed because it makes you unhappy, it's best simply to learn about transgender issues. You can do that just by looking it up, but you can also do it by asking a transgendered person about it, and then listening to what they have to say, because having lived it, they know more about it than you do.

As a gay, happily married man, I have only this to say:

You're kinda throwing your own predecessors out on the streets here. I'm no expert on how gay rights progressed in Portugal, but here in the states, gays had to fight tooth and nail, and argue strenuously over the course of decades just for the right to be "visible, exposed, and common." It used to be a man could be lynched just for kissing another man. So don't throw this "just wait it out" bull****, because that's not what happened for you to be able to enjoy the life you do today.

And further, I don't give a **** if you're gay. You're not transgendered. So I'm 98.9% sure you have absolutely no ****ing clue what it even means to be transgendered, so you can kindly stop pontificating about it. It kinda goes back to point 4. It's okay if you are uncomfortable with this topic about it, and it's understandable if you'd rather not discuss it, because it makes you uncomfortable. But there's a difference between want and need. And at some point, transsexuality needs to be discussed.

 

[l will find peace]

H
... I'm in the south right now surrounded by people who believe homosexuality isn't a trait but a personal choice. You're wrong

you called homosexuals traits, not homosexuality a trait

i was jokingly replying to part of your post that was clear but badly worded

you misread my reply (or youre reaaaaaaaaaaaally dumb), because this has nothing to do with whether orientation is a choice or not

 

[Morphine]

Then I misread your post. You clearly misread mine as I never said homosexuals were traits but was referencing common ignorant belief among bigots.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

99999999 - Of course, in the future I would do my best effort to use the right pronoun. HOWEVER, I don't think Mizuki is entitled to freak out and yell at me. Why isn't this a 2-way street? This is the fundamental issue I have.

Look, I KNOW she probably deals with 100x more **** than I do. Why does this suddenly entitle her to be rude and disrespectful too?

With any other issue, I talk it out in a respectful manner with the other person. Why is it all of the sudden that the transgendered community gets special rights to not handle things like adults?

I'm not talking about transphobia at large,which still needs to be addressed at some point, but calling out Lovage and Westballz on a baseless unproven accusation that STILL hasn't had any basis or actual evidence to it is eh.... I've watched the archives and have yet to see what was the controversy at hand. Westballz wasn't even involved.

Please separate ^ that from the issue of transphobia. I don't have an issue with transgendered people. I have an issue with the way certain people have handled it (both the transgendered and non-transgendered)

 

[Fuujin]

Ooh this sounds like it's gonna be good.

Lemme perch in this thread for some drama, patriarchy and transphobia.


I got my popcorn ready.

 

[Fuujin]

You should probably "grow as a person" some more. mature people dont post things like this. you would have gone to the root of the problem if there was one

also youre confusing "trans-phobia" with immaturity.

You were born with balls right? Use them, all this whining and crying and pro liberalism has become a trend around here lately and its not healthy. This is coming from someone who is gay as a whistle and yet refuses the gay culture of crying to obama and web communities instead of solving your own problems and having balls. My friend you are simply confused, if you were a girl you would have been born that way babe (words from the gospel of the lord and savior to my people lady gaga)

What the actual ****??? When the **** did i ever disrespect any transgender?? I have never in my life made a remark the would intentionally offend a transgender. Just because i called you rubyiris means i have transgender phobia? I will admit i was a **** back in the day and didnt care to refer u by ur new name but that doesnt mean i go around talking **** about ******* or make rude remarks. I dont know where you heard that from or what but im really pissed off that someone would spread a lie like that about me. People who know me know i would never say anything rude to someone that doesn't deserve it.

Actually, it seems like you're the type of person that looks to go out of your way to find offense. 99% of the stream could go perfectly, but if someone ACCIDENTALLY calls you a "he", you'd go ape**** over it. Get over yourself, seriously.

Also, I don't really like that you're projecting that we're transphobic over 1-2 comments. Making mountains out of molehills.

I prefer to **** chicks doggystyle.

...did you want to know that? Because I'm tired as hell of hearing about what everybody else prefers doing to/with their genitals.
It's ****ing gross. Keep that **** to yourself.

And if someone's doing something you don't like, deal with them the same way you (hopefully) deal with all your other problems. That "hopefully" not involving *****ing about it on a public forum for sympathy likes.

A damn MESS.​

I just want to point out, gender identity =/= sexuality.
The OPs sexuality is besides the point in the argument.

Vixen you aren't likely to get anywhere with this unfortunately.
Gamers and nerds in general tend to be pretty terrible when it comes to topics like these.

...did you want to know that? Because I'm tired as hell of hearing about what everybody else prefers doing to/with their genitals.
It's ****ing gross. Keep that **** to yourself.

Nobody gives a **** about you thats why nobody gives a **** to call you by the name u want to be called. The only reason i didnt refer you to your new name is because i personally didnt like any of your posts on smashboards and the way you type things came off as cocky when you were no where near good at this game. Your a **** trying to start drama when i havent said or done anything to u in over a year. Get over yourself and your "transformation". If i see you in person i wont hesitate to ****ing **** talk you. Get the **** outa here u low life drama seeking ****.

Also I was b& for a year for posting gifs but these users are allowed to throw out personal attacks like this?

Mic_128, Hylian, aisight where u at????

Somebody betta get some infractions in this thread.
Maybe a ban or two.

Lemme make use of that report button while I'm here

 

[ph00tbag]

99999999 - Of course, in the future I would do my best effort to use the right pronoun. HOWEVER, I don't think Mizuki is entitled to freak out and yell at me. Why isn't this a 2-way street? This is the fundamental issue I have.

Look, I KNOW she probably deals with 100x more **** than I do. Why does this suddenly entitle her to be rude and disrespectful too?

With any other issue, I talk it out in a respectful manner with the other person. Why is it all of the sudden that the transgendered community gets special rights to not handle things like adults?

I'm not talking about transphobia at large,which still needs to be addressed at some point, but calling out Lovage and Westballz on a baseless unproven accusation that STILL hasn't had any basis or actual evidence to it. I've watched the archives and have yet to see what was the controversy at hand. Westballz wasn't even involved.

Please separate ^ that from the issue of transphobia. I don't have an issue with transgendered people. I have an issue with the way certain people have handled it (both the transgendered and non-transgendered)

My understanding is that Mizuki was noting Lovage's and Westballz's treatment of her w/rt her gender as examples of a greater pattern of transphobia that she has encountered, and that she suspects other transsexuals have encountered as well. Westballz disputed the claim, and Mizuki apologized for misremembering the situation, which, given how much of a penis wrinkle Westballz was being, is far more than he really deserved. I'd say she's been anything but rude and disrespectful.

But really, as far as the greater issue goes, even if those two examples are totally removed from the equation, the pattern still exists, and there's still a lot of people in the Smash community who need to be educated in transgender issues.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

ph00tbag - Understandable, but I'm isolating the fact that making an accusation that may or may not be true actually (and unfortunately) ruins the point she tries to present in the post.

My experience of her freaking out came from personal experience that I would also like to bring up if she's bringing up the issue since this is a two way street, since if she's bringing up laundry, I should be able to bring up some things. Granted, she's been great in the posts in this specific thread, but this hasn't always been the case and regardless of whether she wants to put her past in perspective, people remember her post history and attitude being generally poor, especially in the Falco threads, that has carried over with her current reputation, for better or worse. Maybe this isn't 100% true, but a lot of people dislike Vixen/Mizuki for her history with the community, and unfortunately, this has manifested into making transgender-related comments as a low blow insult.

@fuujin - I'm bringing up a specific issue that I've had with her freaking out over the wrong pronoun over me in person and how's she's interacted with other people. By me bringing up other issues, I'm not trying to imply that she hasn't been mistreated either.
So go ahead, and try to "report" me and generalize the whole community /rollseyes

I think a separate thread talking about lgbt related things would be better. Maybe, fuujin could start it and it would probably lead to more constructive interaction.

 

[Fuujin]

ph00tbag - Understandable, but I'm isolating the fact that making an accusation that may or may not be true actually (and unfortunately) ruins the point she tries to present in the post.

I think a separate thread talking about lgbt related things would be better. Maybe, fuujin could start it and it would probably lead to more constructive interaction.

I don't really care enough about the gays and how they're treated in the smash community to do all that...
Plus judging by the comments within the first two pages of this thread that would end up being a mess.

I'm just here for the drama tbh.
And maybe to get someone b&.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I don't get why its so bad to pro-actively push an issue (Though perhaps not a personal one) on the internet. To the people who are saying "I'm gay/trans and making posts on the internet isn't needed," "You make my side look bad," or "I can tolerate it so you can too." Its just a load of horse **** imo.

The internet is one of the best tools for social progression we've ever had. On the internet you are perceived as you want to be perceived, and you have a voice that you might not have otherwise. Because in real life that voice is easily muted, or perhaps even antagonized and possibly worst. (Speaking from first-hand experience)

I see it all the time. Someone brings up a sensitive topic and you get a lot of "Stop whining about it," "Push your agenda elsewhere, I'm here for videogames." Well ****, its not hard to close the internet browser. You know what else isn't hard? Taking a few seconds to catch yourself or adjust your vocabulary to make someones day better. People then ask "Well where do you draw the line on offensive commentary?" Well its pretty simple. If you can empathize with another person then you prove it. You don't have to like someone at all to treat them like a human being.

The thing I dislike about this mindset is its just conforming to society's oppression. "You can be yourself, so long as it doesn't affect me." You can be oppressed, and have transgenders hide in the eyes of the public while trying to shape their perception of us into something positive. Therefore the only trans people society tends to know about are always on both ends of the extreme. It's okay, society will accept us when they see how pretty Bell Nuntita or Kayo Satoh are. Slowly we inch our way into acceptance by proving ourselves to not be obtrusive, to conform to our gender standards, to sing well or be good at video games. To take jokes or be the brunt of jokes like a champ, and entertain people and be cool to hang out with. Moral of the story, you can be yourself so long as you're useful. Except the majority of transgenders don't look nearly as passable. Some of them are *gasp* even as promiscuous as any other average person, and perhaps carry negative traits that you can also find in the general public. They run into more problems and sometimes get pressured into suicide. That's reality.

There is no voice for the powerless, or even the dead ones. You can accept what you hear and judge **** for yourself or you can turn away. But I for one don't see anything better from people who try and detract from someone else's plight because they don't think society will care to hear it, or because they think they're being misrepresented. Because that's exactly the feeling that spawns people to do **** like this. Learn compassion for your fellow man/woman, and also learn to articulate. Plz and ty.

 

[HMWii22]

persecution complexes and attention-mongering in the smash community

 

[FPDav]

After 99999999etc.'s 1st post I stopped reading because that pretty much covered everything.

 

[Yobolight]

You Trans guys need Jesus.......

 

[ph00tbag]

ph00tbag - Understandable, but I'm isolating the fact that making an accusation that may or may not be true actually (and unfortunately) ruins the point she tries to present in the post.

My experience of her freaking out came from personal experience that I would also like to bring up if she's bringing up the issue since this is a two way street, since if she's bringing up laundry, I should be able to bring up some things. Granted, she's been great in the posts in this specific thread, but this hasn't always been the case and regardless of whether she wants to put her past in perspective, people remember her post history and attitude being generally poor, especially in the Falco threads, that has carried over with her current reputation, for better or worse. Maybe this isn't 100% true, but a lot of people dislike Vixen/Mizuki for her history with the community, and unfortunately, this has manifested into making transgender-related comments as a low blow insult.

@fuujin - I'm bringing up a specific issue that I've had with her freaking out over the wrong pronoun over me in person and how's she's interacted with other people. By me bringing up other issues, I'm not trying to imply that she hasn't been mistreated either.
So go ahead, and try to "report" me and generalize the whole community /rollseyes

I think a separate thread talking about lgbt related things would be better. Maybe, fuujin could start it and it would probably lead to more constructive interaction.

Well, then stop maintaining that the thread should be about any of those people specifically, or even about your relationship with Mizuki specifically. You're even the one that brought up her previous interactions with you. This thread doesn't have to be about that at all.

 

[Deleted member]

ad hominem is where you use a character attack in an attempt to disprove what someone else says

hes not doing that

You're right, that post was only personal attacks without any effort to disprove any statements. My bad.

----

I think the social justice warriors are going in a little too hard on this one. This topic is about the experiences of one person and how an isolated subgroup of people handles her condition. I think it would be best to narrow the scope of the discussion to better help this individual and not to try to solve macro-scale societal complexities.

Frankly, I think TriforceOSM nailed it. Living with an adverse condition is not the responsibility of those around you, it is ultimately your problem. However, this is good news for the individual, because as an individual you can choose to handle your personal issues with grace and finesse. Which leads me to Crystal.

Crystal, you can choose to not get upset with Weston's responses. It does not make the behavior less adverse to you in any way, but you do not have the ability to control Weston or his responses to you. It is better for you to understand that you have the ability to decide how much that response bothers you, and you can simply decide to not be bothered, which is strictly advantageous to your situation. I would recommend re-framing your mindset this way, as it will remove the stress from the situation and the ability to adapt to your situation is beneficial to you in the long run.

 

[Fuujin]

Umbreon

Banned (6 Points)

 

[IsmaR]

You Trans guys need Jesus.......

In my experience, discussing delicate matters such as these on the Internet leads to nothing good. As such, I'll go on being a Smasher here, and a ****** in other aspects of life, for even a well-intentioned argument will be picked apart here as attention-whoring or privileged unequal rights whining.