Tournament legal custom stages: a possible solution

[Grod]

So here's the situation. There is a limited amount of stages that seem tournament-worthy right now (far too few in my opinion) and some of them have problems that aren't really fixable - such as messed up edges and tiltiness - that many people find disruptive. I think this problem could be fixed with a set of standardized custom stages.

For example, the edges on FD...kinda suck. With a custom made FD, the ledge problem would be solved.

Now the subject that I really want to get to is legitimately custom-made stages. Sakurai said that, "players come up with forms of game play that we would never think of on our own," so I think it would be right of us to throw our ideas for stages into tournaments. We just have to make sure that everyone does it, and with the same stages (kind of hard, but I believe it's possible).

So the question is: How can we get custom stages into the Brawl tournament scene?

I'm not quite sure, but we can start here.

1) Upload your custom stage to AllisBrawl or Smashboards.
2) Post a link to it here.
3) Put if it should be neutral or counterpick.
4) Explain why it should be tournament legal.
5) Everyone else will discuss.

I know this isn't a very organized system, but it's a start. If you think you have a better idea on how to run this, do it, it probably is. What I think we should work toward is a standardized set of custom stages that are legal at every tournament (MLG included), I'm just not entirely sure how.


P.S. I couldn't find another thread specifically about making tournament legal custom stages (there were lots of discussions about it, not really any solutions), but if there is, and this thread is pointless, just shut it down.

 

[fargokraft]

I agree with the concept of using Custom Stages,
however like you- I have no I idea how this would form.

Also, I don't have a problem with FD >_>;
so don't care much about having a "custom FD"

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I had an idea for house rules at tournaments that I run related to this:

I was considering creating 3-5 stages which are pretty basic, and allowing them as counterpicks if there was a way I could send the stages to people (so everyone can play on them before my tournament).

 

[Mic_128]

It's something I've always liked the idea of myself, especially with some cool remakes of Smash 64 stages. I really hope something like suggesting tourny legal stages would go ahead and the Smash BRoom picking some of the 'better' ones to test, and then implement in the scene. Admittedly it'd be interesting how to get them out there (the stage browser and other tools would be handy) the only real worry would be a) The wii your on doesn't have the stage or b) someone remaking it but adding something extra in, though admittedly it'd be something pretty easy to spot.

 

[Grod]

It's something I've always liked the idea of myself, especially with some cool remakes of Smash 64 stages. I really hope something like suggesting tourny legal stages would go ahead and the Smash BRoom picking some of the 'better' ones to test, and then implement in the scene. Admittedly it'd be interesting how to get them out there (the stage browser and other tools would be handy) the only real worry would be a) The wii your on doesn't have the stage or b) someone remaking it but adding something extra in, though admittedly it'd be something pretty easy to spot.

Sweet, it you (or anyone in the BR) could hook that up, that'd be awesome.

 

[Anth0ny]

A fixed edges Final Destination would be really cool.

 

[ShortAssassin]

I don't think it would be terribly difficult to implement. Basically the way I'm picturing it is, some # of custom stages become popular and are decided to be tournament worthy. The original creator then posts a picture/video of the stage creation, and all competitive smashers then create these stages on their own to practice them. Tournament organizers will have be to sure before hand that anybody bringing a set up has these stages created.

 

[Guildenstern]

Is it necessary for everyone to see the stage before the tournament? Another idea might be for the tournament organizer (NOT a participant, for the sake of fairness) to design some secret stages, making sure they are more or less fair to all characters, and then distribute them via SD card immediately before the tournament. These would then be the official tournament stages (and the only ones allowed) for that tournament. Everyone is equally surprised; fair is fair.

Of course, we must be able to trust the tournament organizer to make decent stages; plenty of fighting space, no wild traps, not too big, and no pieces that any character can take obscene advantage of.

I'm not saying EVERY tournament should be set up this way, but I can certainly see the possibility of running SOME tournaments this way.

 

[slartibartfast42]

I think that this would be a great idea, however, there is one problem; custom stages cannot be independently turned on and off via random stage select.

 

[TechnoMonster]

I'm not against the idea, however guys, I can recover with Lucas and Ness from below the lip on FD with only a little difficulty, I don't want to hear any more FD johns from anyone.

 

[Rhambo]

It's something I've always liked the idea of myself, especially with some cool remakes of Smash 64 stages. I really hope something like suggesting tourny legal stages would go ahead and the Smash BRoom picking some of the 'better' ones to test, and then implement in the scene. Admittedly it'd be interesting how to get them out there (the stage browser and other tools would be handy) the only real worry would be a) The wii your on doesn't have the stage or b) someone remaking it but adding something extra in, though admittedly it'd be something pretty easy to spot.

After finding out what the heck the Smash BRoom is (sorry, im new ) I could say that it would be interesting to see/play, if you guys could hook it up. The problems you listed aren't really anything to worry about at all.

 

[slartibartfast42]

The problems you listed aren't really anything to worry about at all.

How is not being able to select custom stages individually in random stage select a problem? I guess you've never been to a tournament. The first stage of the set is chosen randomly from the neutral stages. This is simplified in that you can just turn all the stages off of random select except the neutral ones. Without being able to select custom stages in random select, we would be forced to put the names in a hat or something, which is messy and can easily be rigged. (fold a certain paper a certain way and you can be sure to pick it 'randomly', both players can be accused of this; so a third party judge may end up picking every time, which would be quite a hassle, hopefully the smash community can be good about this and a third party selection will be used about as often as a double blind.) Maybe we could set up a dice system... You could have 6 neutral stages named '1' to '6'

I guess it's not really anything to worry about after all.

 

[Mic_128]

You could have the 'neutral' custom stages on the wii and the 'counterpick' ones on an SD card. when it's time to random a neutral, pull the SD card out of the wii.

But then you'd need an SD card for every Wii.

 

[Guildenstern]

The random stage selector does not select stages from the SD card, so there's no need to worry about that. It confused the heck out of me for a while, as I had made about 10 stages and they would never be selected, even though I'd occasionally end up with Hole, Bath, etc. Then I realized that all of my stages were on the SD card; I transfered them to the Wii, and voila, they started being randomly selected.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

IMO, there is absolutely no point in making counterpickable stages. In fact, that would really be a detriment for the community. There are MANY stages in Brawl that are great for counterpicks, so we don't really need to make any more. But moreso, if I play, say, Olimar, and you decide to counterpick Skyworld, I know for sure that I should change my character. But if there was a giant list of counterpickable custom stages, and you pick one of the new ones that I've barely played on at all, then I have no idea how to respond.

However, the implementation of custom stages as random stages (we are making a movement to rename "neutral" stages to "random" stages, as they aren't always necessarily neutral, and they are on in the random stage switch) is something that I think would be an incredible addition to the competitive Brawl scene.

 

[Guildenstern]

The main difficulty with making custom stages randomly selectable is that you cannot pick and choose which custom stages. The game only provides one switch, for ALL custom stages (but only those stored on the Wii, not the SD card). So, in order to use custom stages as randomly selectable, you must first make sure that the ONLY custom stages stored on the Wii are legal ones. And that seems like a more difficult task to accomplish than to just distribute some counter-pickable custom stages, and set the custom stage switch to OFF in the random stage selector.

However, one of my points above is that not all tournaments need to be run the same way. Using only the standard stages is by far the simplest, and quickest, tournament setup. But I see the possibility of ALSO having tournaments that are primarily based on custom stages...I think it might be a neat idea.

 

[Cornstalk]

It just so happened I was thinking about this myself. I've redone a few of the questionably tournament legal stages so the floor play was mostly preserved, but the things that made it frustrating were basically removed.

Weather that means they're tourny neutral is hard to say, but making maps for that reason is a good way to get an idea of what will work and what won't!


Format
Level Name
Level Comments / Thumbnail
Level Download


MY MAPS

Mario Circuit R - Brawl Mario Circuit 'normalized'
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=468
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=468


Skyworld R - Brawl Skyworld 'normalized'
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=471
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=471


Dreamland 64 R - Mostly Dreamland 64, see comments for the minor differences
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=473
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=473


Wario Ware R - The Brawl stage tweaked to enjoy without the random events
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=474
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=474


Luigi's Mansion R - Luigi's Mansion without the contracting nightmare
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=478
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=478



OTHER UPLOADED MAPS

Worn Battlefield - Interesting Design, long layout, side KO's close to ledges
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=395
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=395


STAGE 2 - Medium stage with a dip in the middle and a platform above it
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=76
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=76


STAGE 3 - A medium stage with a small floor plan
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=77
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=77


STAGE 9 - Like pokemon stadium without the transformations. Long walls below edges.
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=82
http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=download&stageid=82

 

[CHUK]

I should put up my dreamland 64, it is better because LIKE dreamland you can full jump slightly between the platforms without landing on a platform.

 

[dancingfrogman]

I think the idea of having Custom stages in a tournament would work well, and I guess if there could be the offical tournament organisers for ssbb, couldn't people post some ideas on what stage could be counter-pick or neutral, and the organisers could pick a selection off them, and the organisers shouldn't participate, as you would be the only one who knows the selection at first, but after about 6 months or a year of tournaments with these selection of stages, then they could participate, as everyone - most people would have seen, or played on these stages. Just a suggestion how it could work!
The stages planned that could be Tournament is on youtube and the address's are in my sig

 

[GameAngel64]

http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=197

Here's my stage. The original inspiration was to make a stage that was the reverse of the standard "Battlefield" style, i.e. 3 short platforms above one long platform. This stage has evolved a little differently from the original vision, but it's still very simple, and seems neutral enough to me (not to mention it's fun to play on, so don't let its plain appearance dissuade you!). It's basically one long drop-through platform with two shorter solid ones below, and beneath the gap is a moving platform.

The stage is called "UnBattlefield" on my Wii, but because there were many incarnations of it I gave numbers to the different versions. Even though I renamed this one "UnBattlefield," its number 3 must've stuck around in the data.

 

[Cornstalk]

http://smashboards.com/stagebrowser.php?do=view&stageid=197

Here's my stage. The original inspiration was to make a stage that was the reverse of the standard "Battlefield" style, i.e. 3 short platforms above one long platform. This stage has evolved a little differently from the original vision, but it's still very simple, and seems neutral enough to me (not to mention it's fun to play on, so don't let its plain appearance dissuade you!). It's basically one long drop-through platform with two shorter solid ones below, and beneath the gap is a moving platform.

I like the layout, but for tournaments I'd be a little wary of someone using the moving platform and inner 'hang' ledges to stall the match or just be a really hard to assault camper.

Maybe change the gap in the middle so it can't be grabbed?

The moving platform down below would have to go entirely for a tourny I'd think. There's just too many ways it can be abused.

 

[GameAngel64]

I dunno, I think being on that platform is a bigger risk than a help to anyone who decides to use it. At least, I've had no trouble with it. Play others on it and see if they abuse it as you describe.

The first version of this stage that I made (which still exists on my Wii), featured no grab-able edges, because they were all drop through platforms, not just the top one. However I felt it was too easy for people to gimp themselves that way. Also, the moving platform was smaller, but still there, so people could have a chance to make it back if they accidently dropped through. It didn't help much. So there's a tradeoff between solid but grab-able, and drop-through but non-grab-able.

 

[Trace_User500]

I dunno, I think being on that platform is a bigger risk than a help to anyone who decides to use it. At least, I've had no trouble with it. Play others on it and see if they abuse it as you describe.

The first version of this stage that I made (which still exists on my Wii), featured no grab-able edges, because they were all drop through platforms, not just the top one. However I felt it was too easy for people to gimp themselves that way. Also, the moving platform was smaller, but still there, so people could have a chance to make it back if they accidently dropped through. It didn't help much. So there's a tradeoff between solid but grab-able, and drop-through but non-grab-able.

How about solid and non-grab-able? One of the reasons I like ice.

 

[GameAngel64]

Do you really wanna be sliding around like crazy? Alternatively, if you stick those dropping blocks at the edges, you can't grab them, and if they drop, you still can't grab whatever floor was adjacent.