Tournament Help

[Aiur]

Ok. I'm going to my first Brawl tourney tomorrow, and I'm going to use ZSS. I have two big questions.

1. Is Dedede a good secondary for ZSS? He's about the only other character I can use well.

2. What are ZSS's absolute hardest matchups?

Thank you for your time...
-Aiur

 

[Zero]

I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that Falco is the toughest matchup, all others are relatively even. But I'm probably wrong. Not sure about the Dedede second, either.

 

[FK1]

Falco/Lucario...so they say.

I'd be very very careful and patient against any characters that can use projectiles quickly. (i.e. TL, Pikachu, Olimar, etc.)

And...uh...Jab out of shield on MK.

 

[noradseven]

Falco/Lucario...so they say.

I'd be very very careful and patient against any characters that can use projectiles quickly. (i.e. TL, Pikachu, Olimar, etc.)

And...uh...Jab out of shield on MK.

I was about to say really I have more problems with pit than lucario, then I remember how easily you can cheese him, but yeah screw falco, thats the worst. PS ban jungle japes, if you know they are going falco.

Olimar sucks, Pikachu is in ZSS favor in my opinion unless actually get hit by thunder then you proably got gimped so is a (5-5 in my opinion, or 5.5 in someones favor), TL isn't too bad, you just have to get good at power shielding, seriously then he gets destroyed by running A->utilt

Falco/Lucario...so they say.

I'd be very very careful and patient against any characters that can use projectiles quickly. (i.e. TL, Pikachu, Olimar, etc.)

And...uh...Jab out of shield on MK.

Learn the spacing
u-tilt if they are stupid and got too close.
jab out under normal circumstances
If the MK does perfect spacing(you can mix up with power shielding or not so its 50-50 even if they are a perfect player), short hop air dodge, out of the way.

 

[kuenzel]

Congrats Aiur, you have a trump card.
Last week I went to my second tourney, (I dont count the first one cause I only played 3 matches and got KO'd of pools) and I actually PLACED.

My best friend plays Falco, and I would (still do) always loose to him. Then when I went to the tourney, I ended up beating one of the best Falcos there. People were shocked.
3:7? When people don't know your character, the matchup is already in your favor.
(Though I have to say experience against a good Falco was also a major contributor.)

 

[Munas]

At this point in your Brawl career I would say that secondary doesn't really matter at all. Play who is fun right now, you're just learning and it'll take some time.

Falco is a really difficult match up though and if your specifically looking for a Falco counter usually Kirby and Game and Watch are considered the better picks.

MK - you will need to know how to fight him. That having been said, ZSS has a much easier time of it than many of the other characters in the cast, it's not in her favor, but it -might- be even.

 

[noradseven]

Congrats Aiur, you have a trump card.
Last week I went to my second tourney, (I dont count the first one cause I only played 3 matches and got KO'd of pools) and I actually PLACED.

My best friend plays Falco, and I would (still do) always loose to him. Then when I went to the tourney, I ended up beating one of the best Falcos there. People were shocked.
3:7? When people don't know your character, the matchup is already in your favor.
(Though I have to say experience against a good Falco was also a major contributor.)

This is why its tradition to not tread on your friends mains, this is also why when I see two friends who both main MK come in I laugh, cause its going to be an easy win. We do need a falco main, in the house, we have an MK main, and enough people play around with the rest of the top tiers that its not too much of a problem(we finally got a donkey kong main, that match really messed me up the first time I played against a good DK). Ohh wait we do have a Falco main that shows up sometimes, he thinks he is good but he is just a scrub.

 

[Aiur]

Well. I did as bad as I thought I would. Haven't played Brawl in a little under a month, so I lost my first round. I then won the next two rounds in the loser bracket(including an MK), but lost my third. That guy played a pretty good Bowser. I probably shouldn't have gone D3 in my first match.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

I say Falco and Lucario are her HARDEST matchups. But it's still not impossible to beat them.

 

[Snakeee]

Worst Match ups for ZSS

1. Falco
2. Luigi (recently came to this conclusion)
3. Metaknight
4. Lucario
5. Snake (is only like 55/45 Snake IMO though)

anything after that is either very very marginally in the opponent's favor, even, or ZSS' advantage.

EDIT: Diddy Kong may also have a small advantage but I am not sure of this yet.

 

[Bouse]

Ok. I'm going to my first Brawl tourney tomorrow, and I'm going to use Meta Knight. I have two big questions.

1. Is Dedede a good secondary for Meta Knight? He's about the only other character I can use well.

2. What are Meta Knight's absolute hardest matchups?

Thank you for your time...
-Aiur

I've fixed all of your problems right there.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

Snakeee, I have to disagree about Luigi. All he really has to get pass good spacing is his tornado. but it can be punished when predicted. Getting him to aerial moves you can counter with uair OOS or utilt depending on the timing. you can counter his rolls with dash pivot side b. On this fight I tend to stay on the ground more than usual and only go in the air when im doing aerial tech chases and edgeguarding. you dont really want to go "head to head" with him in the air because of his priority. but I stay on ground PSing, approaching, dashing backwards when needed and wait for the open points of his moves then counter.

 

[Snakeee]

Snakeee, I have to disagree about Luigi. All he really has to get pass good spacing is his tornado. but it can be punished when predicted. Getting him to aerial moves you can counter with uair OOS or utilt depending on the timing. you can counter his rolls with dash pivot side b. On this fight I tend to stay on the ground more than usual and only go in the air when im doing aerial tech chases and edgeguarding. you dont really want to go "head to head" with him in the air because of his priority. but I stay on ground PSing, approaching, dashing backwards when needed and wait for the open points of his moves then counter.

The tornado is even less of a deal than you probably think.....if you're holding A you will interupt it with rapid jabs lol. His fireballs are enough that they can sometimes force you to approach, and all of Luigi's attacks beat yours at close range on the ground.

Aerial wise, yes up air if spaced perfectly will beat his aerials. However, and this is annoying as hell, if you up air him at lower percents he can hit you with an N-air out of hitstun because you will still be very close to him. And his aerials are tough to beat if he stays out of that very small zone where up air outspaces him.

Luigi's jabs are also a problem. I think single jab to down B works if you do it quickly enough, but I'm not positive. ZSS also seems to have more trouble avoiding his "shoryuken" than other characters.
And of course he can KO much earlier than you can, and he's pretty difficult to edgeguard, when his recovery is utilized well.

 

[jibbyjaont]

Shoryuken? Have you been playing too much Street Fighter?

 

[kuenzel]

Shoryuken = luigi 1 up = Sweet spotted up-b = ownage

 

[noradseven]

The tornado is even less of a deal than you probably think.....if you're holding A you will interupt it with rapid jabs lol. His fireballs are enough that they can sometimes force you to approach, and all of Luigi's attacks beat yours at close range on the ground.

Aerial wise, yes up air if spaced perfectly will beat his aerials. However, and this is annoying as hell, if you up air him at lower percents he can hit you with an N-air out of hitstun because you will still be very close to him. And his aerials are tough to beat if he stays out of that very small zone where up air outspaces him.

Luigi's jabs are also a problem. I think single jab to down B works if you do it quickly enough, but I'm not positive. ZSS also seems to have more trouble avoiding his "shoryuken" than other characters.
And of course he can KO much earlier than you can, and he's pretty difficult to edgeguard, when his recovery is utilized well.

Luigi is pretty tricky, and yeah ZSS gets hit my his shin shoryuken alot, because of the way it warps her hitbox it doesn't help that the luigi main I know plays ZSS as his #2.

Shoryuken = luigi 1 up = Sweet spotted up-b = ownage

sweet spotted up-b= Shin Shoryuken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zty-DVT2cAU at 26 seconds.

 

[TheRockSays]

I have to agree with Snakeee Luigi is a bad match up for ZSS hes my third main he has alot of priority and but his problem he slides to much that he can't do nothing to you and you can't do the same.(after he slides by getting hit somehow) Not only that but His neutral air has incredible hit boxes, i counter pick falco with luigi as a matter of fact no chain grabs and no pursuit only thing he can do to luigi is lasers and side B :/ one thing is for sure he is one tough plumber.

 

[sasook]

Luigi's fsmash is pretty strong too, especially if its angled upwards.

 

[noradseven]

Luigi's fsmash is pretty strong too, especially if its angled upwards.

Yeah but with the downwards angle one you can launch them backwards.

 

[FadedImage]

lol match-up discussion just hijacked this thread.

btw I think Mario is harder than Luigi. Luigi's recovery is rofl edgeguardable. D-smash ***** his poop in (when he tornados). Threaten to edgehog the rest of the time.

oh, and fireballs are so effing good. gaawwdaayaam.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm a lurker here and also attending a big tournament in Florida on the 28th. It will be my first, and lots of big names will be there. I'm quite nervous. Wish me luck, dudes! :D

 

[ph00tbag]

Mario isn't tougher than Luigi. He's similar to Luigi, but without the dumb priority and KO power. Mario also tends to go aerial as an approach, and if you just predict that, you can hit him out of the air as he lands.