Toonami Mafia - Game Over - Daytime Programing wins!

[Wots All This Then?]

Nothing to fear, this constable is ever vigilant.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

so there's five scum or do you think Nabe wzas indy? Where's the other kill coming from?

STOP IT

The point is that there IS something in this game that suggests there is an indy. If you can THEN rule that possibility out, by accounting for scum numbers, etc. right enough.

I have often thought in this game that there might be five scum, because that's what the reads I'm developing suggest. Then I realise that is very unlikely to be the case, so I have to look for a better explanation.

What I don't want to see from vanz is blanket statements like 'there is no reason why you would think this'.

I believe ruy called it the three strikes rule. Town should have at least 3 mislynches before getting to lylo(referenced it in BaM mafia a lot as to why 3 scum+abduct wasn't feasible there)

as in, 3 strikes and you're out? implying you only get to be wrong twice?
this is a dumb debate, there is no guarantee either way.

Rake's interactions with Nabe d2 show that they were knowingly scum together

they could do, I have no idea.

Bold doesn't apply to D3. I've explained why a theoretical townnabe vig shot doesn't clear him on D2(rb, untargettable, etc)

except you don't bold the bit where it says 'slightly confused' townie. It's not beyond the realms of belief for Soup to have looked at a claim and gone 'oh he has claimed a shot, let's just see if he has a shot'.

4v2 is lylo with a NK. ml leads to a 3v2, nk ties the factions at 2 a piece.
5v1 is mylo because ml takes it to 4v1 and a NK takes it to 3v1. lynch town, NK, game over.

the **** am I reading
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mylo

so why did the flips stop? Rake's untargettable doesn't mean jack if he's dead so that didn't stop it. The flip hiding died with Nabe either way.

If the flip hiding died with Nabe, WHY HAVEN'T WE SEEN NABE'S FLIP? I really don't want to be having a dumb argument here, but you're arguing that Nabe's role will continue to work after he's dead? How the **** is that remotely balanced?

Kary, the difference between his interactions with BW, and his interactions with Nabe and Rake, are who was doing the interacting.

You're arguing that Soup was convincing enough to fake an argument with BW, but then started tripping up over his interactions with Rake/Nabe, am I right?

I have a different theory, which is that Soup developed his scumreads D1 based on the way in which people were posting and their reactions to him. He scumreads BW (based on scummy play) but doesn't develop as strong a reads on Rake/Nabe, not for lack of trying.

When he reaches a situation where he still doesn't have particularly strong reads on their slots, but they are in situations where their claims could potentially be proved/disproved, he is fine with pushing for another of his scumreads, and letting the claims sort themselves out.

(but Kary! Surely soup would have known that the claims wouldn't have sorted themselves out?!)

Really?
#1 this requires Soup to be up to speed with the claims and to have thought everything through.
#2 it also requires the belief that the claims wouldn't sort themselves out. You can make a case for why they wouldn't, sure. But you could also ignore the whole shebang and see whether they do (because they could)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Let me just clarify, you think Nabe is mafia roleblocker who also happens to passively hide the flips?

And unvote soup for the love of god

 

[Wots All This Then?]

It's possible that there wasn't a RB, and that we got redirected to Rake N1. Since no one else has claimed RB'd and rb+ untargettable doesn't make as much sense, That might actually be more plausible.
you're right on mylo/lylo terminology, but three strikes is a legitimate way of checking balance. You get three mislynches before lylo.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

my point is that I don't think there is a role that is BOTH responsible for your action being interfered with N1, and for hiding the flips. I think whatever role hides the flips is still about.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

The rule for that is "worst case scenario" though. You have to account for you getting additional NKs. If you can't reasonably do that, you can't reasonably assume ryu is following that formula.

God I hate trying to meta the mod. It either looks reasonable or it doesn't. Whether you think ryu would think it's reasonable is irrelevant, because it still has to get approved to be in the queue. Ryu could decide to mix things up with his setups at any time, and I refuse to get burned by that kind of crap.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

damnit... I have to agree with Kary here. There's not gonna be a role that is both janitor AND roleblocker. I forgot that WATT got blocked one night...

Have we considered that his abilities just have an outright chance of failure? He's a Gambler, afterall. That would not require a roleblocker.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

The thing is, that makes four straight scum really unlikely PJB. (it's not really meta the mod, it's "what is or isn't balanced"

did you just read where it's possible that I got sent to rake somehow and that's the "rb"? I was told my action failed. not roleblocked per se.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

existence of a redirector still requires the existence of another role... Janitor/Redirector isn't any more likely than Janitor/Roleblocker.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

traitor probably has a PR.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

bus driver/redirect would work dandy.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

So you're saying you think there's 2 scummers still alive? Do you think Nabe was town, or do you think it's actually plausible we're dealing with 5 non-town roles (3 mafia, 1 traitor, 1 indy)?

 

[Wots All This Then?]

nabe fliphider.
traitor soup with busdriver/redirect.
one scum which is soup.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

No man, I don't buy that Nabe is dead, and he's hiding his own flip.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

so what else is there? Tell me what makes sense. Is Nabe the RB, and soup is hiding our flips?
Does RB/Untargettable make sense, because that's a hella lot to throw at a doc/tracker/gambler

 

[#HBC | Joker]

This setup is not crazy enough for that kind of nonsense. It's not like this is one of those PR heavy games where there's room for all kinds of shenanigans.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

So what makes sense PJB?
remember that this was an 18 man game. the core concept probably stayed with it

 

[Wots All This Then?]

Believe me, I ran through a lot of speculation to get to this and I feel this makes the most sense out of the pieces I have. Nabe doesn't have to be an active PR. If the game concept was misinfo, then having a flip stay perma hidden is perfect for that.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

.... Nabe could have been the redirector, maybe?

I'm trying to think of stuff that makes sense with what he fake claimed. He kind of covered a lot of ground by saying he could target the hammer AND anyone who voted himself.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

I think I already established the role he claimed was complete BS. Nabe might have been a redirector, but I don't think the flip hider is still around. Rake's untargettable wouldn't mean **** if he was dead, so that doesn't stop the role from hiding his flip.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

If all he did was hide his own flip, then sure, I could accept that. But he his Vinyl's flip, and that I don't buy. I don't buy that a role hides all the flips for a Day, then hides his own flip forever when he dies. That's janky.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

#2157 really isn't, like, anything. I don't know what you want me to address there, all you did was quote me, and acknowledge that you had read it.

#2163 I didn't think Nabe was town. By the time we saw Nabe's lack of a flip, we had received Vinyl's flip. There was no longer any reason for me to doubt people's alignments based on the possibility of them still being alive. We had seen that the missing lynches were, in fact, dead. Not abducted.

In vinyl's case, it was an issue of setup balance. I figured if he was alive (which the wording of his "non-flip" led me to believe could be the case), there was no way he was scum. A setup that took somebody we lynched, and whisked them away unharmed, would be bull****. I figured if he was dead, he was scum. I was wrong about that one, sue me. i already explained all this stuff back when it was happening, so I don't know why you didn't catch it while you were supposedly "rereading me".

Nabe's lack of a flip wasn't indicative of his alignment. It wasn't the same as with vinyl, because now I understood more about how the setup worked. These people were dead, and something was covering up their flips. So in Nabe's case, it's an easy call to make. Read him the way I read him when he was alive. I read him as scum, btw. By the end of the day, there was little doubt. His play may not have made sense as good scum play, but it made exactly zero sense as town play of any caliber.

#2166 You think I directly believed Nabe and was playing along with his claim? Hell no, I've already explained how this went down. I didn't believe Nabe at all, his play made no sense to me. But you were steering the town away from him, and when I thought he wasn't going to be the play anymore, I unvoted him. I didn't directly believe him at all. I directly believed you. And since he had explicitly stated a desire to shoot me using the role he described, I unvoted him to be safe. Again, sue me.

Where's my previous theory about the missing flips you ask? Well this will be the dozenth time I've explained this, but Vinyl had already flipped by the time Nabe went missing. Since it obviously wasn't abductions, because they were dead, why would I talk about it?


you done with your terrible push yet?

1st paragraph. Alright. So, Nabe is scum, right? He's not abducted, he just got janitored? This is what I wanted to talk about, the fact that you had theory that if vinyl. was dead, he was scum. That wasn't the case, and he was town. My problem was the fact it contradicts your logic on Vinyl.

2nd paragraph or so, alright, but you believed his claim for the most part? You never went back on him after that, in fact, you just faded into the background. Alright, the part about unvoting him because of me? I don't think that's the case if my memory serves right. I didn't show up until after his claim. I don't think I have this wrong, so how was my influence direct to yours?

Last paragraph or so, I figured it would have held merit somehow considering your previous theory, but I guess you just didn't care about it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

WATT was blocked N1 or something? Redirector? That seems ********.

STOP THIS **** HOLY **** I DONT WANT TO THINK ABOUT REDIRECTOR JANITOR INDY BULL**** GODDAMNIT

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

nabe fliphider.
traitor soup with busdriver/redirect.
one scum which is soup.

you are literally smoking crack right now

 

[Wots All This Then?]

WATT was blocked N1 or something? Redirector? That seems ********.

STOP THIS **** HOLY **** I DONT WANT TO THINK ABOUT REDIRECTOR JANITOR INDY BULL**** GODDAMNIT

I was told me action failed. ergo, RB'er or I was forced to hit rake with the doc that night.

you are literally smoking crack right now

:shrug:

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Chill out I've got this hydra partner: Soup is talking all kinds of crazy **** since I left yesterday, throwing the idea of a no lynch. He's even still fudging facts after his fake claim:



Funny how we didn't make it to D4 like we should have in this post.
Sometimes you just have to DO things.

Vote: Soup

Right or wrong lets do this.

...What? What are you voting me for? That was to talk about the idea of how many mafia exist, as your head and me were talking about this traitor theory you got going in your head

like **** i just got voted for talking numbers

i dont evne

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

not saying it is. I'm trying to sort through everything just in case i'm wrong on soup.

you ar e

 

[Wots All This Then?]

then we reevaluate and go form there.
@above-dietz revoted you after I took the vote off.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

There is no goddamn way that A redirector/roleblocker/busdriver ****ing exists

An untargetable is already pretty ****ing OP already, giving scum the ability to redirect AND roleblock is ludicrous

and then let's not even mention that janitor whatever the ****

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

then we reevaluate and go form there.
@above-dietz revoted you after I took the vote off.

get your vote off me i am not scum literally you are trying to say that i'm some traitor indy who can redirect and roleblock at the same goddamn time did i mention you also think i can somehow inherit the kill now are you kidding

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

please tell me what your master plan is once i flip town

 

[#HBC | Joker]

1st paragraph. Alright. So, Nabe is scum, right? He's not abducted, he just got janitored? This is what I wanted to talk about, the fact that you had theory that if vinyl. was dead, he was scum. That wasn't the case, and he was town. My problem was the fact it contradicts your logic on Vinyl.

2nd paragraph or so, alright, but you believed his claim for the most part? You never went back on him after that, in fact, you just faded into the background. Alright, the part about unvoting him because of me? I don't think that's the case if my memory serves right. I didn't show up until after his claim. I don't think I have this wrong, so how was my influence direct to yours?

Last paragraph or so, I figured it would have held merit somehow considering your previous theory, but I guess you just didn't care about it.

Being dead and being mafia are not, nor ever were, things I claimed to be prerequisites for having a flip hidden. I thought if Vinyl was dead, he was probably mafia. I was wrong. There's absolutely nothing contradictory about that, and I don't see why you're asserting it as such for any reason other than to falsely paint me in a bad light.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

how the **** does our action fail N1 then soup? We targeted joey N1 and was blatantly told by ruy our action failed.
I think you're a mafia traitor. who, if Nabe wasn't rb/redirect, has to have one of the two.
Literally, we commute and go off the flips. We go to one of Kary or PJB in all likelyhood. Now calm the **** down

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

how the **** does our action fail n1 then soup? We targeted joey n1 and was blatantly told by ruy our action failed.
I think you're a mafia traitor. Who, if nabe wasn't rb/redirect, has to have one of the two.
Literally, we commute and go off the flips. We go to one of kary or pjb in all likelyhood. Now calm the **** down

i cannot be calm when i have someone trying to say that i am this super powered god like role with the power of the universe who can roleblock and redirect and is also traitor and inherits a kill

what are you even thinking

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

watt i dont ****ing know i dont even remember that happened you just reminded everyone and now that changes everything and oh my god im about to pop a blood vessel im not sure whether to feel anger or curl into a ball and weep for humanity

im starting to think nabe was a rb'er because holy **** this does not make sense aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[#HBC | Joker]

soup, you need to calm down. He isn't saying you redirect and roleblock at the same time. It's one or the other, but you're too much of an ****** to stfu and read through things before blowing your ****ing top over every little thing.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

STFU.
You can kill. Someone did, and it's not an indy.
If Nabe couldn't RB, someone redirected us to rake or rb'd us. there's likely one scum left, and no one has claimed to be a town roleblocker. hence, it's the same guy NK'ing.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

soup, you need to calm down. He isn't saying you redirect and roleblock at the same time. It's one or the other, but you're too much of an ****** to stfu and read through things before blowing your ****ing top over every little thing.

he called me a busdriver traitor/redirector

it's not about what he called me either, it's the fact WATT just mentioned he got RB'd on N1

and we're already dealing with a janitor/abductor or something

it
doesn't
make
sense

 

[#HBC | Joker]

really? I can't say @sshat? it censors the whole thing, including "hat"?