Toonami Mafia - Adult Swim Edition - The sun has risen!

[#HBC | Joker]

I wouldn't be surprised if the event was triggered by ruy being the first person to doublepost (just narrowly beating out gheb), or use the word "kawaii" or some such silly thing. I think the mod cut him down because he met the conditions of some arbitrarily predetermined event. That would actually be hilarious.

Of course, it could just be someone who got a dayvig power, and decided to troll hardcore with it "becuz hbc"

 

[FullMetalLynch]

why isn't it a legit daykill PJB?

Actually, I need talk to rake wrt something I just thought of.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You think somebody made a legit daykill on ryu after he made, like 3 posts? They determined him a threat based on that?

Although there is the theory floating around that mafia might have daykills. I guess they would cut down any ol person and not have anything to feel bad about. Dead townie is a dead townie.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Why not kill early before connections set in?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Well we don't know who dunnit. It makes some sense from the mafia's standpoint, but not from anyone else's. I feel like even an indy would want to take more time with it than that.

 

[Asdioh]

Don't know much about the move itself or the show or the circumstances though. I think suggesting that I'm scum that jumped the gun (excuse my pun here) and shot RR because I was scared of his RVS vote is a bit ridiculous. Also your reasoning that with a townie dead you think it's more reasonable for you to have 2 town reads is also pretty silly. Those factors are completely independent of each other, how are you coming up with that logic?

Perhaps. These facts still remain:
-RR was town, presumably investigative role
-Somebody has a daykilling role
-RR died before he really got to say anything

There's no way I would believe that any town player would kill someone immediately like that, risking a potential power role.

I would not normally get so overzealous at the start like I did, but the fact that RR flipped a power role seemed significant to me. I figured there was a reason he, specifically, was killed immediately. But there are way too many assumptions to make to conclude anything useful. The only conclusion I can reasonably come to is that the one who killed him is antitown.

My logic for the town reads vs the dead townie... I'm assuming scum has a daykill ability to counterbalance Raziek's role. The traditional Lightning Rod:

The Lightning Rod passively redirects every Night Action to itself. This includes the Mafia's kill as well as all investigations, protections, and so forth.

All that daykill did was make Raziek's claim more believable. And perhaps this daykill is the very thing Gheb's role was making reference to.

This was not a pre-scripted event, at least not one that could ultimately lead to Ryu's death on D1 every time this game is played. We can determine this by the fact that he flipped as a specific role. This was done on purpose and with intent rather than a random "game event".

Pretty much this. Despite the possible "b******" nature of this game, I think it would be pretty lame for someone to just go and have a scripted death after waiting weeks for the game to start. This was an antitown daykill, of that I have no doubt.

And despite my excitement for things actually happening on Day 1, that gets us nowhere. We have 2 semi claims, a dead townie, and partial knowledge of a scum role.

Just to be clear on something, I want Raziek to be removed from potential lynch candidates for Day 1. Everyone agree on this?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I'm not lynching Raz today based on his play so far. I'll make no guarentees beyond that.

 

[.L-]

So they do exist........ Shinigami

Why not kill early before connections set in?

What connections do you feel were set in? Why are they inherently disadvantageous, which you implied by asking why they wouldn't do so earlier.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

I didn't feel that any were made yet, and that might be a reason as to why the shot was made so early.

 

[.L-]

It appears I completely misread the tone of your prior communication. Apologies.

How do you feel about Detective Prince at the current moment? About Gheb? How strongly do you feel about your current wagon? Does this change with the knowledge that most RVS wagons fail to be seen through to the noose?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

It appears I completely misread the tone of your prior communication. Apologies.

How do you feel about Detective Prince at the current moment? About Gheb? How strongly do you feel about your current wagon? Does this change with the knowledge that most RVS wagons fail to be seen through to the noose?

Minus having talked to the canadian half of the hydra on this, I think Prince is Null at the moment. He hasn't said anything extremely telling to me yet.
Gheb's a townlean. I don't think scumgheb claims that PM info in pregame if he's scum and I don't think scumgheb fakes that kind of info if he does not in fact have said info.
Kantrip counts as a wagon? Doesn't bother me yet. Don't think anything will actually come of it.

 

[.L-]

Perhaps that can change.

Vote: Potassium

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Any kind of claim should almost always be taken as a null tell, not town. I agree that Ryu's death is more likely to be result of an ability than the result of an event but I still think it's possible. Regardless of what the cause was it's safe to assume that it's no contradiction to Raziek's claim which has been suggested earlier. I think it's premature to read town on Raziek because of his claim, just as there should be no scum lean because of Ryu's death. The slot is null and nothing else.

 

[.L-]

Later tonight I will go through all of Red Ryu's communications as finely as possible to see if he may have triggered something. Let us not forget that Wash is a comod in this game, and he is quite fanatically obsessed with Plants -- and similar roles.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Have you and Orbo been in each others minds recently ?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

can you reconsider ignoring pregame? I think FML dropped some scumtells in there don't you agree?

Where and what are these scumtells?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

The canadian is fine with soup at this moment in time, but is wary.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Let us not forget that Wash is a comod in this game, and he is quite fanatically obsessed with Plants -- and similar roles.

That was literally the first thing that came up in my head when I thought about reasons for Ryu dying out of the blue so early. It would also provide a possible contradiction to Raziek's claim and thus might be worth pursuing.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

The plant was the thing that triggered my mind when talking with PJB earlier. didn't really see anything to gain by saying in thread yet as it was only an idea, which might not be true unlss we saw another such occurence in laterd ays.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Any kind of claim should almost always be taken as a null tell, not town. I agree that Ryu's death is more likely to be result of an ability than the result of an event but I still think it's possible. Regardless of what the cause was it's safe to assume that it's no contradiction to Raziek's claim which has been suggested earlier. I think it's premature to read town on Raziek because of his claim, just as there should be no scum lean because of Ryu's death. The slot is null and nothing else.

^^ this

Even if somebody claims Doctor, and they manage to prove that they are a doctor, that's not a clear. A mafia doctor is a thing, and in a setup like this we can't take any chances.

Although to be fair, I think most people saying "Raziek is town" are basing it off the fact he chose to come forward with his miller/sleepwalker claim. It's not just about the role, it's the way he went about claiming it.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

the above is true^

 

[.L-]

Let's stop going in circles stating the obvious. If we spend the entire Day discussing the folly of following claims alone, it was a folly just the same.

PJB, you have taken an active role in the ongoing conversations thus far. What do you feel you have learned?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

^^ this

Even if somebody claims Doctor, and they manage to prove that they are a doctor, that's not a clear. A mafia doctor is a thing, and in a setup like this we can't take any chances.

Although to be fair, I think most people saying "Raziek is town" are basing it off the fact he chose to come forward with his miller/sleepwalker claim. It's not just about the role, it's the way he went about claiming it.

because lord knows scum never does that

:eyeroll:

 

[.L-]

Are you saying you may be suspicious of Raziek, or merely that he has done nothing to earn a lesser amount of it?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Second one.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

Two different heads.
he hasn't been suspicious yet, but One head likes the way he came forwad with it. The fact that he is now stuck with that claim for the game doesn't hurt.

 

[.L-]

Second one.

merely that [Raziek] has done nothing to earn a lesser amount of it

If this is the case, what is your objective purpose in undermining PJB's conclusion?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

PJB, you have taken an active role in the ongoing conversations thus far. What do you feel you have learned?

Nothing much, yet. Mostly just talk about Ryu being dead, and theories about why it happened.

I'm willing to give Raziek a town point for claiming, but I'm keeping an eye on him. Like FML said, I like that he's locked into his claim.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

The purpose (if you are referring to the eyeroll post) was that some scum will come forward with such claims(more so the miller part) early on. I've seen kevmo do this in games as scum.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

The purpose (if you are referring to the eyeroll post) was that some scum will come forward with such claims(more so the miller part) early on. I've seen kevmo do this in games as scum.

****. wrong hydra. First time I've done that

 

[KevinM]

I don't think I even feel like speculating about a daykill in a game where it's been hailed as down right ******* modded.

 

[KevinM]

I get home from work around 10 pm est. Anyone want to talk with me then ? I can't wait sounds good.

I have three chairs at my table everyone else will be ignored :D

 

[KevinM]

The purpose (if you are referring to the eyeroll post) was that some scum will come forward with such claims(more so the miller part) early on. I've seen kevmo do this in games as scum.

Yeah but holy **** was it baller when I did it.

 

[.L-]

The purpose (if you are referring to the eyeroll post) was that some scum will come forward with such claims(more so the miller part) early on. I've seen kevmo do this in games as scum.

That is not a purpose. That's your logic.

What was your purpose in undermining the observation?

 

[FullMetalLynch]

To not have PJB go down that road of assuming that it's necessarily a town tell.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I wasn't even indicating that I was assuming it as a towntell. I'm just observant enough to see that other people are.

I do think it's worth town points, but I reserve the right to revoke those points at any time.

 

[.L-]

To not have PJB go down that road of assuming that it's necessarily a town tell.

But the action of going down a faulty path isn't what you undermined, but rather, the perceived conclusion of Raziek being town. Or, more precisely, leaning town. The tone of the post makes this clear... "yeah, because scum can't do that "

You were diving in not based on the poor logic that led to a conclusion but on the alignment-related conclusion itself. This implies -- quite accidentally, but implies just the same -- to me that you may know more about alignments than you let on -- for better or for worse.

 

[FullMetalLynch]

But the action of going down a faulty path isn't what you undermined, but rather, the perceived conclusion of Raziek being town. Or, more precisely, leaning town. The tone of the post makes this clear... "yeah, because scum can't do that "

You were diving in not based on the poor logic that led to a conclusion but on the alignment-related conclusion itself. This implies -- quite accidentally, but implies just the same -- to me that you may know more about alignments than you let on -- for better or for worse.

You're expecting me to magically know exactly why my other half posted that, at a time when he was at work and therefore not in communication wit me. I'm trying to explain this without knowing his mitivation as we took the post in question two different ways

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OS, which conclusion is FML trying to undermine?

 

[.L-]

You're expecting me to magically know exactly why my other half posted that, at a time when he was at work and therefore not in communication wit me. I'm trying to explain this without knowing his mitivation as we took the post in question two different ways

Why is the fact that it was your other half only coming up now, after I've needled you? It would have been just as acceptable when I first started questioning you about that particular statement, and much more timely too. Instead you answered my questions (which were clearly asked of the poster, not to the general hydra) until they became stiffer.

This makes it feel more like an excuse.