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Toon Link's Defensive Game

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
In Brawl, your best offense can literally be the intelligent use of defensive options in the midst of battle. Such is the nature of Brawl, a game where the perfect defense can easily pierce through offense and turn the bound of battle.

While I am sure all of you more-dedicated-than-me Toon Link mains will have more to contribute, I'd like to underlay the foundation of this thread with:

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Options out of shield

We are all aware there are moments in battle where you are stuck in a rather disadvantageous position w/ Toon Link, or any character for that matter. However, with the aid of the jump command, which instantaneously cancels shield release lag with a jump, some of Toon Link's best moves can be used to swat away the opponent.

Note jump canceled shield to whatever is safer than simply shield releasing, which takes anywhere from 5-7 frames if I recall correctly. That's enough time for faster characters like Meta Knight to punish you rather than reverse.

Jump canceled Usmash

This is so-so in the fact that most opponents won't be attacking you from above unless they have a multi-hit or lingering hitbox, and in which case means they'll stuff your Usmash anyway. However, if there should be a need to use Usmash out of shield, press jump along with C-stick up (assuming it's on Smash) and release to perform a Usmash with all shield lag gone. Probably works well on slower characters that mess up spacing and get too close to your shield.

The hitbox behind you is weak and also allows you to try to set up a Uair kill or a juggle trap with Bair from this. The front blunt side outright kills around 95%+ against middleweights and below. However, as I said, the hitbox of Usmash horizontally is small.


Jump canceled *grounded* Spin Attack

Probably a more well-known choice out of shield. Spin Attack (Up+B) is a somewhat weak attack that sweeps low on the ground and therefore has good horizontal distance, but poor vertical (it for some reason still has a bit though). It's a multi-hit move that sucks the opponent in and then throws them out at the end. Do know the attack has the tendency to pop them out early naturally, or whiff hits so they can powershield in-between hits, or Dolphin Slash through it (Marth only).

To do the grounded form, jump cancel the shield and immediately Up+B. If you have tap jump on, just press Up+B from shield. If done correctly, you should NOT do the aerial up+b, just the grounded form.

If you are *crazy* enough to do aerial Up+B out of shield, only do it if they're attacking in front of you. Aerial up+b has almost no back hitbox at the beginning, and toward the middle and end, it has absolutely none so be wary.

Jump cancel to aerials


Probably one of the best options you have. The only offset is the fact that your sword is naturally short in range. However, this gives you the most versatile options. Simply shorthop out of shield and perform a rising aerial (remember to let go of shield or you'll do non-autocanceled Zair).

The two best options are Nair and Bair, both are quick and get the job done. The opponent attacking you from behind? Bair. From the front? Nair. You can also try to do Uair if they've just sitting inside your shield, but there's a few frames where no hitbox is out. Dair is the next best alternative to Bair/Nair. Fair works as well but is laggier than Uair. Fair might be good if you want to retreat and scare them off with good old fair from your shield. For the sake of just getting them off your shield though, stick with Bair and Nair, your bread and butter.

Jump cancel to airdodge/Zair

There are times when retreating is best since you lack range against the likes of Marth and Meta Knight. A jump cancel to airdodge is a good way to do this. Add this with DI and you can retreat. Since Zair cancels an airdodge at any moment, you can airdodge out of shield and do a Zair that gets autocanceled and either follow up or run since it's lagless. Make sure that if you want a Zair from this that you shorthop, as well as get the timing for a full-ranged Zair that also gets autocanceled at the same time.

Bombs out of shield

This is rather interesting. With bombs, you can do a lot of things out of shield. You can bomb drop from a shorthop as you DI away from jump cancels, or throw it forward, backward, up, down, lightly or a full toss. Whatever. When you hold a bomb, you can also press A+use control stick/C-stick to shield cancel to a throw in any four directions. This can be used in conjunction with shielding to bait opponents. Whatever it is though, you have a lot of options with a bomb in hand.

Shield Grab

The most basic and universal option out of shield. Everyone has this. Tether users tend not to do this since tether lag upon failure is a millennium and four quarters of a decade. However, this is a good mix-up tactic, especially on users that attack with a laggy move. Use the grab to pummel them with grab jabs to refresh your moves and either Dthrow to juggle w/ Bair at low percents or Uthrow to set up a higher length for them to fall back down from, giving you more time to set up whatever shenanigans you want to do up in the air (Uair kills, bair juggles, bomb pressuring, etc.). You can also Bthrow if you're near the ledge and prepare your assault with your above average offstage game. Even a grab release will suffice as it gives you a positional advantage *most* of the time. On characters like Ness/Lucas, you can Dsmash or jab from the ground break.

Since Toon Link is too short to force jump breaks unless you grabbed them off the edge of a platform/ledge, jump breaks aren't guaranteed. However, if the foe manually does one, you can follow up on some characters. For example, if MK jump breaks, you can get off a free Nair or something. Simply experiment with a friend that can airdodge/attack/have a brain and you can explore this further. The good thing is that jump breaks cannot be DI'd so experimentation is limited to whether or not your foe can attack or dodge before your follow-up.

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I focused almost exclusively with options from a jump canceled shield, but I am sure there a lot more you more creative people can conjure up. Have fun now?

<_<
 

N1v

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
4
Nice post.

Since I'm usually knocked out of range of shield grab after a regular shielding, I try not to shield grab unless I perfect shielded a ground attack. That's really the only time I know I can grab them.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
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Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Nice post.

Since I'm usually knocked out of range of shield grab after a regular shielding, I try not to shield grab unless I perfect shielded a ground attack. That's really the only time I know I can grab them.
Yeah, since from a powershield you have frame advantage to do basically anything.

Now why has no one else looked at this? This is my yearly *big* contribution to the character board of someone I don't even main. ^_^
 

vbdood1337

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Was a good read. How do jump breaks and ground breaks work? Is there a thread here about them? I can't seem to find one.
 

VietGeek

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Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Was a good read. How do jump breaks and ground breaks work? Is there a thread here about them? I can't seem to find one.
Ground break can be done if you just keep jabbing them until the game forces you to let go.

Jump breaks occur as long as the character being grabbed isn't touching the ground where their feet. This is why taller characters can force jump breaks. You cannot, but if the player decides to jump break, you *may* be able to follow up. Everyone can force one off the ledge or end of a platform however.
 

MDMA

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Nice one Vietgeek, I recently started thinking about the same thing. I was always practicing my tech-game, fast finger skills etc. That I left this huge part of the TL(everychar)-game out. So this stuff is all veeery helpfull. thanks alot.
 

Sosuke

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*feels like a noob* ._.
I can't do JC Usmash out of shield. wth. D=
 

Lobos

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You might wanna explain jump cancel out of shield a little more. EDIT: Better yet a video

The only hard to do is the upsmash one and thats only because im using the cc lol but I got it down
 

VietGeek

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You might wanna explain jump cancel out of shield a little more.
Help me sir. I seriously don't know how to describe it other than use jump out of your shield.

I also added that the jump needs to be immediately canceled on moves like Up+B/Usmash and therefore you have to do both commands within each other w/ a reasonable time limit.
 

Sosuke

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Its basically just Pressing like X or Y and Usmash/Up-B before TL jumps.
Its really easy.
 

Lv.99

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Pondering questions
....... I was right, you have no social life. How do you know that much!?!? I don't even know R.O.B.'s frame count...

Well moving on. Let me respond:

Hmm, odd. You didn't metion camping. Yes, I'm serious. With correctly spaced camping (which you do most of the time) you stop from approaching. not exactly a good defense but it actually prevents the need in the first place.

As to shield grabbing, that of course would only works on a semi-laggy move or greater. With a near lagless move, the enemy could just spotdodge away from your tether and charge their f-smash. Not the best option unless you planned ahead.

Well, that's all I got. And yes, I'll probably be here more often now. The R.O.B. boards are rare to interesting debate.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
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I didn't mention camping because...

that's not exactly something too difficult to grasp or understand. You have three projectiles, a lack of kill moves, and a small sword w/ a lack of range...

Hmm, does this hint at some sort of metagame revolving around projectile use? He has quick running speed too? Hmm...perhaps hit-and-run tactics could work...

Hmm...

Yes, I trust that anyone using Toon Link is not a complete idiot and will occasionally camp if it's necessary. If not, they should just go use MK and win tourneys.

And my lack of a social life being called out by you is lol. Sure, you're book-smart and the women dig you, but you're a ******* when it comes to common sense. Plus you refuse to go to tourneys now because you got grounded for telling your caretaker we'd be home at 6:00 instead of 11:00. That's fail.

Stop running away from trivial problems and man up...

KOIZUMI!
 

vanderzant

Smash Journeyman
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I'll have to try the jump cancelled shield thing. Sounds pretty useful as I'm always getting stuck in my shield. Who knows, I might even try using Up B for damage...
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
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So guys, I try to contribute and there's not enough "OMG something of relevance to Brawl!"

Don't discriminate guys. Marth never did anything wrong.

Well, I'm just wondering why we're not trying to contribute more or something. This thread seems very...lonely.
 

Sosuke

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Idk... I mean...
....
What really is there to add? =/
 

Rutger

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I don't have much to contribute. Or more so I'm not confident that I can contribute worthwhile info, I don't want to say something misleading in a topic that is trying to help people.

that and I don't have enough exp to know what to contribute.
 

Lobos

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Ok so I am now finally using this fluently especially the jc upsmash ^.^ I'll add more to TL's defensive game when I get some more free time.
 

Jman115

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I haven't experimented too much, but there must be something that can be done with the hero shield and its projectile defense. I guess the obvious is use it to block projectiles without shield lag/need to dodge. Although most projectiles tend to send you back until you grab the edge.

Not really sure what else could be added.
 

Sosuke

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For those who don't know:

When your running away from someone with a bomb in your hand, A backwards JC bomb throw -> SHDA is a good defensive strategy to keep people off your tail.
 

TheJerm

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Yea, that works, but I SH then throw the bomb back, then zair, or quickdraw, depending on my opponents distance.
 

Jman115

Smash Journeyman
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Yea, that works, but I SH then throw the bomb back, then zair, or quickdraw, depending on my opponents distance.
A backwards JC bomb throw allows you to make a quicker throw and continue high tailing it out of there though. Which is sometimes necessary. But that is a nice strategy too.
 

TLMSheikant

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JC bomb throws r awesome ive been using them more lately and they rock. Ive always known how to JCbomb throw but didnt centralize my game around it until lately.
 

Lv.99

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Messages
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Pondering questions
I didn't mention camping because...

that's not exactly something too difficult to grasp or understand. You have three projectiles, a lack of kill moves, and a small sword w/ a lack of range...

Hmm, does this hint at some sort of metagame revolving around projectile use? He has quick running speed too? Hmm...perhaps hit-and-run tactics could work...

Hmm...

Yes, I trust that anyone using Toon Link is not a complete idiot and will occasionally camp if it's necessary. If not, they should just go use MK and win tourneys.

And my lack of a social life being called out by you is lol. Sure, you're book-smart and the women dig you, but you're a ******* when it comes to common sense. Plus you refuse to go to tourneys now because you got grounded for telling your caretaker we'd be home at 6:00 instead of 11:00. That's fail.

Stop running away from trivial problems and man up...

KOIZUMI!

****, I hate it when you're right. It's true.

Sorry VietG.
 
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