Toon Link Matchup Thread

[Ayoub]

Ah, okay. I find it kind off anoying when they sheild bombs and it bounces. Well, most of the time I catch them again with an aerial. But okay, this is pit thread. xP

 

[MJG]

Ah, okay. I find it kind off anoying when they sheild bombs and it bounces. Well, most of the time I catch them again with an aerial. But okay, this is pit thread. xP

Yes. This is exactly what he means
Or...if you know your opponent reacts to a bomb hitting their shield the exact same way every time, i like to jump up to where i think they will jump and fair them...or run a space behind them to up smash. Definitely situationally and the pit or any player for that matter will not do the same thing in the future

 

[Ayoub]

Well, you should try it the first time. As in, pit sheilds the bomb, see what he does after it. Keep sheilding? Pivot grab (if you grab normal, you'll get hit by the bomb). Rolls back?. Do it again and punish the roll, most people do the same thing twice untill they get punished for it. That kind of things. =P

 

[Jash]

This is probably the most even matchup. I play Blaze and he makes it even because Pits UpB is broken and stuff.

 

[Ayoub]

This is probably the most even matchup. I play Blaze and he makes it even because Pits UpB is broken and stuff.

I still think it's a bit TL's advantage, so 55:45.

 

[Admiral Pit]

TL's projectile camping alone gives Pit trouble to approach, which overall isnt really Pit's strong point. Then TL having a slightly better range, with better speed makes it hard for Pit to sometimes keep up with the pressure.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Matchup is probably 55 - 45 TL but I never faced a Pit that's Wingdash happy, so it might be even, like Jash said.

 

[Admiral Pit]

A Pit that does that fancy stuff all the time is bound and asking to be punished. That why a Pit should NOT waste time against fighting opponents, especially to those they have a disadvantage against, like TL.

 

[Jash]

Wingdash IS his approach against everything Toon Link does. Wingdash devours all of the projectiles and just allows Pit to enter. Powershield to jab with Pit is broken and can barely be space safetly. Bair kills extremely quick off the stage and not too hard to hit with either. This matchup is even, that my friends is a fact.

 

[shinyspoon42]

Wingdash actually has a use here because you can cancel his arrows and rangs with it, and I've actually caught bombs w/ the dair cancel portion of the windash.

Also nair destroys arrows and rangs, and you can catch bombs.

MS reflects arrows and rangs, and bombs only hurt if they land right next to you (further then that and it blocks it) TL's up-b is telegraphed and Pit can simply reflect him for a gimp.

I'd say this MU is 50:50

 

[Smashragde]

wingdash only work in distance because tl not only has projectiles ... he has a sword ... if u use wing dash for the boomerang and the arrow wat happen if tl is aproaching too? :/ this is the problem if u will use wingdash isnt a good idea aproch to tl ... the best atacks vs a tl :

side+b
a+a+aaaaaaa~~
u-air
n-air
f-smash and d-smash

 

[Ayoub]

wingdash only work in distance because tl not only has projectiles ... he has a sword ... if u use wing dash for the boomerang and the arrow wat happen if tl is aproaching too? :/ this is the problem if u will use wingdash isnt a good idea aproch to tl ... the best atacks vs a tl :

side+b
a+a+aaaaaaa~~
u-air
n-air
f-smash and d-smash

Uhm, the wingdash pushes TL away too?

 

[shinyspoon42]

wingdash only work in distance because tl not only has projectiles ... he has a sword ... if u use wing dash for the boomerang and the arrow wat happen if tl is aproaching too? :/ this is the problem if u will use wingdash isnt a good idea aproch to tl ... the best atacks vs a tl :

side+b
a+a+aaaaaaa~~
u-air
n-air
f-smash and d-smash

Wingdash is fast and has no lag, and if they are approaching they will get pushed off by the wind and then you can still be safe. You can wingdash to retreat, or approach, or in place.

side+b isn't so good because he can simply throw a bomb and hit you from over the top of the AR, and side-b is long lasting and has endlag.
a combo doesn't work well, because it stays in place and is easy to DI out of. He could just sit back and throw crap at you while you spin your sword.
u-air gets completely pierced by his dair,and he can just z drop a bomb if you try to get beneath him.
nair is good for dealing with projectiles, but as an attack his zair will poke you out of it, so don't try to attack him with it, just use it to destroy his arrows and rangs, and time it so you catch his bombs.
f-smash is good, as is d-smash. Unfortunately, very rarely will he be on the ground, as he is almost always short hopping around and barraging you with projectiles.

 

[mars16]

Pit vs Toon Link
Easy kill Pit because he can reflect and he has faster attacks and he is not that weak, why do people say he's weak.

 

[ShermantheTank]

Wingdash actually has a use here because you can cancel his arrows and rangs with it, and I've actually caught bombs w/ the dair cancel portion of the windash.

You can't wingdash bombs, and a good TL will use lots and lots of bombs.

Easy kill Pit because he can reflect and he has faster attacks and he is not that weak, why do people say he's weak.

Because you can count the number of kill moves Pit has on one hand, and because a good player will make certain you're never hitting him with those moves.

Does anyone have a good way to approach TL?

 

[TLMSheikant]

I doubt this is even. Zair limits Pit a lot. Pit has less kill power, gets outcamped and doesnt have many good options against bombs. I say its 60-40 TL.

EDIT- wtf jash. Its not even.

 

[Admiral Pit]

60-40 TL is going too far. Pit still has a projectile and reflectors that can help at times, as well as shieldgrabbing an approaching TL Z-air. The Z-air will only hit the opponent once, opposing to Link's hitting twice. It takes time for a Pit to get through, and thus, a Pit should not be messing around, and that means no stupid arrow looping garbage at all.

idk if a Pit hasn't tried approaching from a high elevation to avoid projectiles, but idk at all. Ledgecamping really doesn't help much against the constant projectiles, especially annoying bombs, so camping is limited.
55-45 TL is as far as I'll go.

I wonder how useful Pit's Pivot grabs are in this matchup, but I think not much.

 

[321BOOM]

idk if a Pit hasn't tried approaching from a high elevation to avoid projectiles, but idk at all. Ledgecamping really doesn't help much against the constant projectiles, especially annoying bombs, so camping is limited.
55-45 TL is as far as I'll go.

Abuse Pit's jumps and shoot arrows in the air, angling them down.
Should get through some of his camping..

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

I have no problem beating my friend's Pit using Toon Link. No he doesn't suck with Pit. 55 - 45 Toon Link.

 

[ShermantheTank]

Abuse Pit's jumps and shoot arrows in the air, angling them down.
Should get through some of his camping..

Great justice.

Also don't forget that chasing opponents with arrows gives you free damage. You might not be able to go camp happy at medium range, but it's still entirely possible to gimp TL with arrows, or to do an up throw and hit him with an arrow when he starts coming back down, etc.

I don't think this has been mentioned, but TL's dair has more vertical range than Pit's uair. But Pit's uair has much more horizontal distance, so if you can bait a TL into doing his dair and get to the left/right of him, uair will go right through it. Not useful all the time, but still something that's good to consider.

 

[Popcornio]

Arrows are pretty easy to Power Shield though, even so you won't find yourself that far away from Toon Link that often BECAUSE of your arrows. Pit definently has the advantage from far away but when it comes to closer combat, Tink definently has the upper hand and with your lack of killing moves you have to work really hard for that last hit.

60:40 Toon Link IMO.

 

[Afropony]

I have no problem beating my friend's Pit using Toon Link. No he doesn't suck with Pit. 55 - 45 Toon Link.

OK, thanks that didn't help at all.

Arrows are pretty easy to Power Shield though, even so you won't find yourself that far away from Toon Link that often BECAUSE of your arrows. Pit definently has the advantage from far away but when it comes to closer combat, Tink definently has the upper hand and with your lack of killing moves you have to work really hard for that last hit.

60:40 Toon Link IMO.

Arrows aren't as easy to powershield as you would assume, we can hold them in for a longer time and if we wave the control stick around in all directions we can hold it for even longer. If you watch a decent pit you'll see that they don't allow the opponent to PS the arrows by using the thing I wrote above.

When in really close Pit has Utilt, Dtilt or jab/infinite which can lead to combos putting Tlink above Pit. Although Pit may have trouble killing his pummelling is fairly quick which will allow Pit to refresh his Fsmash.

 

[Admiral Pit]

60:40 TL is still a biased ratio.
Pit isn't completely helpless, and Afropony already covered the part of which Pit can hold arrows for a bit of time to throw off powershield timing. At the same time, keep in mind that u r slightly more vulnerable when holding a bomb since TL's shield can't help him if he's holding an item, or in this case, a bomb.
Now, our arrows do have the longer range, but still, any of TL's projectiles can cancel it out, but maybe we can try shooting after jumping.

The ratio will still stay at 55:45 TL, however.

 

[TJaguar]

Yea sadly enough

 

[Catt]

I think it's 50:50 at worst.

Arrows are pretty easy to Power Shield though, even so you won't find yourself that far away from Toon Link that often BECAUSE of your arrows. Pit definently has the advantage from far away but when it comes to closer combat, Tink definently has the upper hand and with your lack of killing moves you have to work really hard for that last hit.

60:40 Toon Link IMO.

Hehehe... I play this guy pretty often, and he's pretty good.
Pit is my secondary, and as a Sonic main, a character with a REAL lack of kill moves, I find Pit has no trouble killing, honestly. Pit is more than capable enough. Especially if you are constantly racking damage with arrows and maintaining good spacing. 110-130% is easy to rack up without taking much damage.
I find that Pit's arrows are best used as counters, interruptions, pressure moves, and filler moves to keep them on their toes.
Don't be afraid to whip out the Mirror Shield every now and then if Tink gets campy. Mirror Shield comes out and gets put away fast enough to easily slip in between Tink's moves, without being made too vulnerable. It's also possible to reflect his Up B, or push it back, with the Mirror Shield for a gimp while he recovers, or for an easy opening for more damage while he's vulnerable from the reflect. Tink's Zair can be flipped around with Mirror Shield, leaving Tink fairly vulnerable as well.
Pit's blades are longer than Tink's sword for most of Pit's moves, especially Ftilt and Fair.
Pit's Nair is fast enough to interrupt Tink's Bair strings long enough to get out and even punish if done right.
Also, Pit's ground game is fast enough to interrupt a short hopping Tink's air game, and Pit's Fsmash is large enough to protect Pit from incoming short hopped aerials, while concurrently putting a gap between Pit and Tink.

TL;DR
In this MU spacing and punishing are everything for Pit.
From my experience, this MU is at worst 50:50.

 

[TLMSheikant]

How would flipping around zair put TL in a disadvantage? If one of his best moves for spacing/comboing/damage racking/everything is bair? Pit's blades does not have more range than Tink's moves for the most part. Whipping mirror shield out in an attempt to stop the camping is just asking to be punished. The matchup is 55-45 TL. 60-40 maybe. Pit's kill moves are horrible :/.

 

[Admiral Pit]

One underestimates a non-stale B-air and Fsmash, Dsmash at the very least. However, Pit's main problem is approaching. It's bad enough he's slightly slower and outranged.

Pit's projectile does have longer range, though, doesn't completely help much with Pit being outspammed by TL.
Maybe Pit should make Powershield attempts should there be no bombs, and then there's the Z-air, but it really depends on the situation.

55:45 TL is as far as I go. Pit ain't completely helpless.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

I think 55 - 45 Toon Link seems about right.

 

[Phaigne]

I disagree on the basis that Toon Link is a cartoon.

edit: I knew I'd get an infraction, but I couldn't help it.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

^ Toon Link is a TOON?!?!?!?!?! SINCE WHEN!?!?! =O