Toon Link Matchup Rediscussion #12: Diddy Kong

[TLMSheikant]

I recommend not throwing bananas much at pro diddys. The PR diddy I play against (yubi) catches the nanas with AD and instathrows it back. :/ I only use nanas against him to get JC throw to usmash kills. Otherwise, its better to throw them away :/.

 

[QUIVO]

Yea, AZ is pretty good at regaining control of his bananas if I use them against him. I usually mix it up by throwing it in the air or something.

Breaking Diddy's momentum is really important. If you do that, the matchup is like you guys taking turns ****** each other.

To catch his bananas I usually use aerials or airdodges + zair.

 

[Gnes]

pretty sure TLs bair is better. frame adv. isnt everythang

1 frame means alot. But i should have been more clear in what i meant. Yeah tink's bair is better with combos, etc., but its not faster than diddy's nor is its priority higher.

The safest way/and most annoying from a diddy's point of view is with nair, god, that move is BROKN.

Jerm it wont work.

PX...ur never touching my head again

 

[Lobos]

I can banana lock with toon link.

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

I can banana lock with toon link.

Lies and slanders. >_>

 

[Gnes]

I can banana lock with toon link.

Ur so 2000 an Late

 

[Sosuke]

nor is its priority higher.

TL uses a sword.

 

[Lobos]

Actually I think if both bairs hit at the same time, diddy wins because of the slight difference in frames.

Gnes - 1998 because thats when I started smash

 

[Gnes]

Lobos...u are correct sir. ^.^

Also...u mean competitive smash??? Cuz if so dear god

 

[TheJerm]

banana locking with TL isnt hard.

Gnes, it miiight work. In theory it seems to work xD

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

banana locking with TL isnt hard.

Gnes, it miiight work. In theory it seems to work xD

I know it's not. It's just Lobos. :3

 

[Lobos]

Lobos...u are correct sir. ^.^

Also...u mean competitive smash??? Cuz if so dear god

Oh noes, I didn't join till late 06 and didn't join the boards till 07

I know it's not. It's just Lobos. :3

You doubt my skillz boy?!

 

[Sosuke]

get back on topic

 

[Indigo Jeans]

That's the Sauce I know and love.

So, what guaranteed ways do we have to deal with Diddy's nanners. That's what will eventually screw us over in this matchup.

So far we have
-SHNairZair
-Bombs
-Boomerang(?)
-Arrows(?)
-ADZair

I was thinking maybe autocancelling one of his aerials to pick up a nanner; that is how you Lock with Diddy, by AC a Dair.

 

[Lobos]

get back on topic

My last post in here......55-45 TL good luck guys

 

[MJG]

Ur so 2000 an Late

Someone likes the BEPs ^_^

What are guaranteed follow ups when throwing a banana right back at diddys face and a fairly close range? I've heard the Up Smash after a banana throw being thrown out there. I also know that diddy's will just get back up after being hit with a banana (at least the diddy's that i have played)

 

[WindMajor]

You could always SH>Nair, in hopes that the nair will catch the banana. Hyphen Smash of course. If you aren't going for the kill yet however, you could just Dash attack, but you have to be weary of the ending lag.

 

[Kaffei]

Is Diddy faster than TL?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Bump for justice.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

If only we could glidetoss bananas. We'd be like, 80 - 0 Toon Link :D

 

[Gnes]

Exit stage left

 

[TheJerm]

LMaoo 80-0 doesnt even = 100. And thats not even the bad part of the post =/

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

You doubt my skillz boy?!

Oh trust me, not at all. That has already been proven.

If only we could glidetoss bananas. We'd be like, 80 - 0 Toon Link :D

Well, we COULD use the JC throw to "glidetoss" forward so we can follow up.

LMaoo 80-0 doesnt even = 100. And thats not even the bad part of the post =/

Wow, someone is critical. >_>

Still no official matchup ratio?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Still no official matchup ratio. I said I would move on to 2 new discussions every 2 weeks. Guess ppl dont read. :/.

 

[Gnes]

50-50...everyone should agree. Honestly i think this may be the most even matchup in the game...unless im playing ^.^

 

[WindMajor]

Yup. 50:50.

TL must stay out of the ground.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Even 50-50 it shall be. Ill post the summary on sunday. (saturday Im gonna be away all day)

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

Even 50-50 it shall be. Ill post the summary on sunday. (saturday Im gonna be away all day)

50-50 eh? Well I still think it's SLIGHTLY in our favor....but eh. This'll work.

Not sure if anyone got this in my ealier post but.....

If you use a Nair over a naner then press A before you hit the ground, you'll pick up the naner with the nair that never came out.

Also if we use our JC'd Item throw to move forward instead of a retreat, it acts like a glide toss. Can you JC item throw OoS?

 

[Sosuke]

Or you can just press Z.
That's pretty basic and doesn't really make a big difference in the match up.

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

Or you can just press Z.
That's pretty basic and doesn't really make a big difference in the match up.

I never said it would. <_<

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Wow my post was fail. lol

BTW Diddy Kong is an annoying mother******

We have to play extra flawless in order to make it even. We have to work harder than the Diddy to make it even. =\ I know I will get flamed for this.

 

[Radori Nighthawk]

Wow my post was fail. lol

BTW Diddy Kong is an annoying mother******

We have to play extra flawless in order to make it even. We have to work harder than the Diddy to make it even. =\ I know I will get flamed for this.

Not really harder, just smarter and very observant.

 

[MJG]

Wow my post was fail. lol

BTW Diddy Kong is an annoying mother******

We have to play extra flawless in order to make it even. We have to work harder than the Diddy to make it even. =\ I know I will get flamed for this.

I lol'd at this post

Do you honestly know what flawless means? That word was used out of context just now.

50:50 IMO

 

[TLMSheikant]

Summary D:

Even 50:50

Diddy Kong Frame data: (Credit to Illinialex)

Best Stage to fight Diddy on:

Worst Stage to fight Diddy on:

Summary

Diddy is a very momentum-based character, he's either controlling the match or being controlled. Diddys are very annoying and use bananas to set up grabs, dash attacks to utilt and basically combos. You want to avoid bananas as much as you can because of this. Bombs are great in this matchup as they break through nanas. If you get a hold of one of Diddy's nanas you can either throw it away (so that he has to get another one) or Jump cancel throw it at him and follow up with a nair or UpSmash (killing %s or low % when u can still regen your upsmash with 10 more attacks). OoS shield nair is great for catching nanas, diddy will also get hit if he attempts to dash attack. ADZair is also a great move in this matchup as it outranges most of diddy's moves ( if not all) and can catch bananas in the process.

If you hit diddy while he's recovering with his upB, he will be stunned for a while (watch out for the barrels). You can use bananas, bombs and boomerang for this. Also, if ever a Diddy is forced to recover from below the stage its an easy tether-hog, you can also dair without much risk if he's directly below you and charging his upB. Be careful of diddy's monkey flip kick as it can go through arrows and boomerang. Ban Luigi's Mansion if it's legal, diddy is too gay there and Toon Link sucks in that stage. Rainbow Cruise is a very solid stage to take a Diddy to. But stages dont matter much in this matchup. Last but not least, you might want to learn to pickup bananas by cancelling ur dash and pressing A or insta AD catch (when theyre on the floor) to an instathrow. This'll make his bananas less annoying and limit his stage control a little more.


Moves that are very helpful in this matchup:
Bombs, Zair, Bair, Nair, UpSmash, Dash cancel Item pickup, insta AD catch, insta item throw, Arrows, Boomerang.

Moves to watch out for the most:
Bananas, Monkey Flip Kick, Grabs, Dash Attack, Fair, Bair, Fsmash, Dsmash.

 

[Gnes]

RC is a good diddy stage...take us to brinstar/norfair.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Hmm, I seem to do best in RC against diddys. And brinstar is a horrible TL stage too. Sincerely, this matchup is so even that stages dont even matter much. >_> Should there even be a best stage section with a matchup this even? >_>

 

[Gnes]

Jerm and quivo both take me there, and its not that this stage is good for toon link, but its more horrible for diddy than toon link (personally i dont believe its a bad stage for tink, ive seen jerm **** there.). Just dont take us to RC, diddy can do some nasty things there.

 

[QUIVO]

I actually like Brinstar for TL. It mostly works if you can control the stage well since it's so small and we can't run away. My strategy is camping side/top platforms with bombs. The ceiling is low, and sides are small so we should be able to get earlier kills. I haven't tested it, but is dsmash gimp good there? Anyway, I would probably pick this stage against Diddy if I couldn't pick BF.

I know AZ is used to playing on RC, and knows a bunch of tricksies. Diddy's not bad on that stage. The only reason I'd take a Diddy to this stage is if he was really reliant on bananas. You could always go for super situational and risky bcd's though.

Norfair is an ok pick imo. AZ is pretty good on that stage, and it seems like if he can control the center platform he can do well there. It hinders his banana game, but not enough to really CP imo. I think most Diddys hate that stage though, but they probably don't practice on it.

I would really only ban LM against him since that stage is too gay. He controls the bottom with bananas, uthrow to up b is stupid if you miss a tech.

 

[BigMara]

Where are all the diddy players at? I've seen very few diddy input....just toon link players saying that its 50:50. I believe the match-up is 50:50 only when none of the characters have real live experience. If the diddy and Tlink know each other well, the ratio is skewed towards diddy. *Equips flame shield* A misinformed diddy will banana spam and do fancy stuff/rush you down. Those diddy's will be eating a lot of bairs, bombs, and jabs. An informed diddy will hold his banana and set up traps and shoot peanuts to force bair attacks or make you shield. Its true....diddy has more tricks up his sleeves and more answers against Tlink's options. Tlink, on the other hand, has quite a few tricks but not as many answers against diddy. This is mainly because of Tlink sucky grab. Diddy can get away with a lot of offensive approaches such as spamming bairs without the fear of getting grabbed.

If Toon link camps to far, diddy can set up bananas on the stage to limit your stage movement. Mid range, diddy can't do anything unless he has a banana in his hand. People that say stay in the air have to realize that diddy can grab a banana and hold shield near you and wait for you to land/bair or something so they can slip you up. Air is good for retreating but if your going to approach its better to stick close to the ground until you get in range. When you get a banana, don't be a fool and throw it off the cliff. Throwing it up or down is a good way to put it under your control so the diddy won't have access to 2 bananas for a short period of time. Also, to clear this up, bombs are a good answer to bananas but diddy's that know the match-up will either wait for you to throw it or explode on your shield before tossing their projectile. Still, bombs are a life savor.

*cough60-40diddycough*

 

[SuSa]

Many people stated who they've played the matchup with, meaning both players have.. real life experience.

Also it is assumed both sides know the matchup. <_< Therefore both players are informed.