TOASTYYYYYYYYY! Scorpion for Smash!

[Ridley_Prime]

Yeah. Kazuya is cool, though now that Smash has Tekken, it puts into perspective that we've really narrowed down iconic fighting game franchises. Shame that MK will probably remain an exception even with a next Smash, unless again, the lack of Japan presence somehow changes.

Scorpion’s not 100% impossible as is, but with this revelation, I’m still not counting on him anymore, as he was already a long shot to begin with.

 

[pupNapoleon]

If there was a chance for a MK character inclusion, it's completely gone with Kazuya's reveal. There's no way in hell they're adding two fighting game characters in a row. But i'm pretty happy with Kazuya, ****ing great character.

It is certainly unlikely- given that we only have 4 fighting game characters total (counting Street Fighter as one), but it still could happen- we've gotten back to back RPG characters this pass, several times.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It is certainly unlikely- given that we only have 4 fighting game characters total (counting Street Fighter as one), but it still could happen- we've gotten back to back RPG characters this pass, several times.

Yes, but I doubt they'd try to go for Scorpion this late. I think the only reason we were able to get yet another big third party is because Namco's working on Smash and Namco games are full of cross-company references.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yes, but I doubt they'd try to go for Scorpion this late. I think the only reason we were able to get yet another big third party is because Namco's working on Smash and Namco games are full of cross-company references.

We probably will not, this is true. Still, who knows? I certainly would not have thought we would get 3 fighting game characters in the passes at all.
Or we could even get another FP. Again, probably not, but it would certainly be sensible to have another.

 

[UserKev]

Yeah. Kazuya is cool, though now that Smash has Tekken, it puts into perspective that we've really narrowed down iconic fighting game franchises. Shame that MK will probably remain an exception even with a next Smash, unless again, the lack of Japan presence somehow changes.

Scorpion’s not 100% impossible as is, but with this revelation, I’m still not counting on him anymore, as he was already a long shot to begin with.

Yup. Ultimate is make or break for Scorpion. He's just a character that has fun speculation. While Scorp may highly remain one of those pipe dream picks, he'll at least be one of the most realistic candidates in the running.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yup. Ultimate is make or break for Scorpion. He's just a character that has fun speculation. While Scorp may highly remain one of those pipe dream picks, he'll at least be one of the most realistic candidates in the running.

Aren't pipe dream and realistic candidate...opposite statements?

 

[UserKev]

Aren't pipe dream and realistic candidate...opposite statements?

Scorpion has all the merit for Smash but Japanese bias will keep him out.

 

[cothero]

Thinking about MK representation in smash, Kazuya's reveal made me think that Sakurai would stick to add Liu Kang over Scorpion. Sakurai always tends to choose protagonists from their respective series, with Min Min being the only exception, as the Arms director stated that "everybody's the protagonist".

Although i rather have Scorpion over Liu Kang.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Yeah, the more I've sat and thought about it, the more I love the addition of Kazuya. Compared to games like KoF, SF, GG, and especially MK, Tekken has never quite clicked with me. I have had fun playing it with friends and I generally like all of the different characters and such, but as a fighting game, it isn't my favorite. All that said, I'm really happy to see Tekken cross over with Smash. It definitely feels like it should have already been here, considering its legacy and the fact that it greatly outsells both KoF and even SF. Seeing Kazuya alongside Ryu and Terry feels great and has put Smash one more step beyond the 'Ultimate cross over.'

Now that we have Tekken, Mortal Kombat certainly feels like it should be added next. Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Dead Or Alive, etc. are all great, but MK really stands out in the grand scheme of things. It's been around for decades, has had a ton of highly successful entries, has a pretty decent multimedia presence, and is currently sitting above Tekken when it comes to overall sales. That's pretty insane considering the games are practically nonexistent in Japan. Now that we have all of the biggest Eastern fighting games, it would be great to finally see the biggest Western fighting game cross over with Smash. It may not be likely, but it definitely feels right. I hope that Sakurai or whoever might be in charge of Smash in the future recognizes MK's significance and feels that it deserves to be included alongside the likes of Street Fighter, KoF, and Tekken. I know that I'd love to see it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Thinking about MK representation in smash, Kazuya's reveal made me think that Sakurai would stick to add Liu Kang over Scorpion. Sakurai always tends to choose protagonists from their respective series, with Min Min being the only exception, as the Arms director stated that "everybody's the protagonist".

Although i rather have Scorpion over Liu Kang.

At the same time, Scorpion is way, way more marketable. He's on the boxes of all the modern MKs for a reason.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah, the more I've sat and thought about it, the more I love the addition of Kazuya. Compared to games like KoF, SF, GG, and especially MK, Tekken has never quite clicked with me. I have had fun playing it with friends and I generally like all of the different characters and such, but as a fighting game, it isn't my favorite. All that said, I'm really happy to see Tekken cross over with Smash. It definitely feels like it should have already been here, considering its legacy and the fact that it greatly outsells both KoF and even SF. Seeing Kazuya alongside Ryu and Terry feels great and has put Smash one more step beyond the 'Ultimate cross over.'

Now that we have Tekken, Mortal Kombat certainly feels like it should be added next. Guilty Gear, Soul Calibur, Dead Or Alive, etc. are all great, but MK really stands out in the grand scheme of things. It's been around for decades, has had a ton of highly successful entries, has a pretty decent multimedia presence, and is currently sitting above Tekken when it comes to overall sales. That's pretty insane considering the games are practically nonexistent in Japan. Now that we have all of the biggest Eastern fighting games, it would be great to finally see the biggest Western fighting game cross over with Smash. It may not be likely, but it definitely feels right. I hope that Sakurai or whoever might be in charge of Smash in the future recognizes MK's significance and feels that it deserves to be included alongside the likes of Street Fighter, KoF, and Tekken. I know that I'd love to see it.
View attachment 320170

First---- amazing banner signature.
Secondly- yes, Mortal Kombat is among the top fifty media franchises of all time, and is, I believe the highest selling Fighting game franchise. The big three (not including Smash) are 2/3 in the game already.
I'd love to see Scorpion, but I would then likely move on to wanting Nightmare, I'd count Ryu Hayabusa as DoA, and both Sol Badguy and Morrigan do appeal to me. So does Sukapon- I wish he got into Brawl of Sm4sh.

Thinking about MK representation in smash, Kazuya's reveal made me think that Sakurai would stick to add Liu Kang over Scorpion. Sakurai always tends to choose protagonists from their respective series, with Min Min being the only exception, as the Arms director stated that "everybody's the protagonist".

Although i rather have Scorpion over Liu Kang.

Honestly, Kazuya may be the first protagonist, but he is also part of the Mishima family- which are all the main characters (much like the Skywalkers in Star Wars, Tekken is a family saga). Kazuya also

As for Min Min, she- like Scorpion- is the face of the series. No one is going to convince me otherwise, but she was always the fan favorite, and won the first contest (the first ARMS tournament) as well. Liu Kang also doesn't have the kind of uniqueness that Scorpion has- I don't think we would get another Fire-based Martial Artist from a fighting game.

 

[cothero]

First---- amazing banner signature.
Secondly- yes, Mortal Kombat is among the top fifty media franchises of all time, and is, I believe the highest selling Fighting game franchise. The big three (not including Smash) are 2/3 in the game already.
I'd love to see Scorpion, but I would then likely move on to wanting Nightmare, I'd count Ryu Hayabusa as DoA, and both Sol Badguy and Morrigan do appeal to me. So does Sukapon- I wish he got into Brawl of Sm4sh.


Honestly, Kazuya may be the first protagonist, but he is also part of the Mishima family- which are all the main characters (much like the Skywalkers in Star Wars, Tekken is a family saga). Kazuya also

As for Min Min, she- like Scorpion- is the face of the series. No one is going to convince me otherwise, but she was always the fan favorite, and won the first contest (the first ARMS tournament) as well. Liu Kang also doesn't have the kind of uniqueness that Scorpion has- I don't think we would get another Fire-based Martial Artist from a fighting game.

Well, Spring Man is Arms's posterboy, actually.

 

[UserKev]

Thinking about MK representation in smash, Kazuya's reveal made me think that Sakurai would stick to add Liu Kang over Scorpion. Sakurai always tends to choose protagonists from their respective series, with Min Min being the only exception, as the Arms director stated that "everybody's the protagonist".

Although i rather have Scorpion over Liu Kang.

Liu Kang would look generic next to Ryu and Kazuya, ironically. Sakurai may would choose Liu Kang over Scorpion, but it'd be a risk. It'd be unthinkable.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well, Spring Man is Arms's posterboy, actually.

No, Springboy is just on the cover of the first one, because he makes the game easy to understand to a new buyer- specifically parents.
Obviously he is not the posterboy, because not only is he the winner of the tournament, nor the fan favorite, but he isn't who was chosen in Smash.

Isabelle, Pikachu, Scorpion- none of them started on the covers of their series. They earned it over time because they became the mascot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There is no "second one". Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are the mascot of ARMS. There's no other games or media for there to be other Mascots. Min Min could easily be the Mascot of a second ARMS game, but it doesn't exist at this time to the public, if there's even a new game in production.

They both were promoted as the Mascots who represent the series. It's not, as you said, a cover thing. But they still are the Mascots.

 

[UserKev]

There is no "second one". Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are the mascot of ARMS. There's no other games or media for there to be other Mascots. Min Min could easily be the Mascot of a second ARMS game, but it doesn't exist at this time to the public, if there's even a new game in production.

They both were promoted as the Mascots who represent the series. It's not, as you said, a cover thing. But they still are the Mascots.

They are. But Min Min would be a considerable mascot if Spring Man and Ribbon Girl were to be replaced.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They are. But Min Min would be a considerable mascot if Spring Man and Ribbon Girl were to be replaced.

No disagreementsi here. But till then, well~

 

[pupNapoleon]

There is no "second one". Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are the mascot of ARMS. There's no other games or media for there to be other Mascots. Min Min could easily be the Mascot of a second ARMS game, but it doesn't exist at this time to the public, if there's even a new game in production.

They both were promoted as the Mascots who represent the series. It's not, as you said, a cover thing. But they still are the Mascots.

They weren't promoted to be anything. They are on the cover.
Obviously they aren't the mascots, because we didn't get them in Smash.
Character based games have mascots emerge from the fan favorites that come over time. In the time with the game so far, that's been Min Min.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They weren't promoted to be anything. They are on the cover.
Obviously they aren't the mascots, because we didn't get them in Smash.
Character based games have mascots emerge from the fan favorites that come over time. In the time with the game so far, that's been Min Min.

Actually, Spring Man had a Manga planned. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl were the most de facto characters in the trailers, and also the one in Min Min's trailer with the most use. So yes, they were promoted. Not just on the cover.

No, they didn't get in Smash because Nintendo nor Sakurai were choosing them alone. Sakurai or Nintendo would've obviously went with either because they're the mascots. However, what actually happened is the Creator requested Nintendo to use Min Min. Nintendo suggested it to Sakurai. Sakurai was worried she wasn't the main protagonist, so talked to the Creator. "Spring Man is the main character, I thought", just like everybody else. He only used her cause Nintendo said so and it fit a reasonable scenario(protagonist, which is what he generally chooses or a mascot for a first character, if even possible).

Kazuya isn't the actual mascot of Tekken either. That's Heihachi by far. Kazuya is a very notable protagonist, as the Mishima clan is very important to Tekken.

This isn't the first time where the Mascot is ignored for a Protagonist;

• Hero, just a protagonist, and a Class, got in over Slime, the de facto protagonist.
• Cloud is at best the Mascot of the FFVII "series", but the mascot of the actual Final Fantasy franchise is split between Moogle and Chocobo.
• Kazuya over Heihachi, as noted.

The only actual time a Mascot has been chosen over a Protagonist is in Pokemon, being Pikachu. The rest? They were already both the Mascot and Protagonist combined. Mario, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Fox, etc.

Caveat: I made a single error. Kazuya is also one of the mascots. My bad. It's rather debatable who is a bigger one, but either way, he's a Mascot/Protagonist mix.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Actually, Spring Man had a Manga planned. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl were the most de facto characters in the trailers, and also the one in Min Min's trailer with the most use. So yes, they were promoted. Not just on the cover.

No, they didn't get in Smash because Nintendo nor Sakurai were choosing them alone. Sakurai or Nintendo would've obviously went with either because they're the mascots. However, what actually happened is the Creator requested Nintendo to use Min Min. Nintendo suggested it to Sakurai. Sakurai was worried she wasn't the main protagonist, so talked to the Creator. "Spring Man is the main character, I thought", just like everybody else. He only used her cause Nintendo said so and it fit a reasonable scenario(protagonist, which is what he generally chooses or a mascot for a first character, if even possible).

I don't recall if the manga is considered canon, but certainly the quick cancelation speaks to the lack of popularity for it.
Character-based games
Notice that in the direct for Min Min, he literally used a spring to show how the game works. Spring Man and Ribbon girl, very cliche examples of boy and girl, down to the names and the color, are a marketing promotion, to explain the unique mechanic of the game. That does not make them the mascots- that would be like saying Venasaur is the mascot for Pokemon because he is on Pokemon Green.

With character based games, the mascot inevitably becomes the most popular character over time. As far as ARMS, there is no contest that this is Min Min. She won the fan poll (and the official tournament, thusly), she got the highest reception upon immediate reveal, and even the creator favors her.
The best similarities are indeed three other character based games- Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and Mortal Kombat. The mascots all developed over time, with the actual mascot not appearing on any of the original boxart. Pikachu, Isabelle, Scorprion. This is the parallel comparison.

Kazuya isn't the actual mascot of Tekken either. That's Heihachi by far. Kazuya is a very notable protagonist, as the Mishima clan is very important to Tekken.

The entire Mishima line are the mascots of Tekken- which is why it is always one or several of them that appear in each game, with the last several taking a serious turn back to focusing on Kazuya.

This isn't the first time where the Mascot is ignored for a Protagonist;

• Hero, just a protagonist, and a Class, got in over Slime, the de facto protagonist.
• Cloud is at best the Mascot of the FFVII "series", but the mascot of the actual Final Fantasy franchise is split between Moogle and Chocobo.
• Kazuya over Heihachi, as noted.

Slime and Chocobo may be the mascots of DQ and FF, but Hero and Cloud are indeed the protagonists.
I'm not sure how this is relevant- protagonists and mascots, both, have been chosen. Pikachu was chosen over Pokemon trainer, as an example. We don't have any dispute on this, so perhaps I am missing the point?

The only actual time a Mascot has been chosen over a Protagonist is in Pokemon, being Pikachu. The rest? They were already both the Mascot and Protagonist combined. Mario, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Fox, etc.

I'm still not sure why this is relevant.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

 

[Ridley_Prime]

NetherRealm is now focusing on its next project and after more than two years of supporting Mortal Kombat 11, DLC for the game, including characters, has come to an end.

— Mortal Kombat 1 (@MortalKombat) July 2, 2021

Meh. At this point, MK11 not getting anymore focus or plans isn’t surprising, but had they just went out and said it earlier, it would’ve softened the blow for fans.

With that said still, Mileena and Rain being the last characters to go out on is pretty underwhelming. MKX’s last being Triborg and Bo Rai Cho was fresh in comparison.

This skin was also false advertising in hindsight, since we never got it in-game.



For a next MK, I’ll definitely wait for the complete/ultimate edition, that’s for damn sure.

 

[mynameisBlade]

NetherRealm is now focusing on its next project and after more than two years of supporting Mortal Kombat 11, DLC for the game, including characters, has come to an end.

— Mortal Kombat 1 (@MortalKombat) July 2, 2021

Meh. At this point, MK11 not getting anymore focus or plans isn’t surprising, but had they just went out and said it earlier, it would’ve softened the blow for fans.

With that said still, Mileena and Rain being the last characters to go out on is pretty underwhelming. MKX’s last being Triborg and Bo Rai Cho was fresh in comparison.

This skin was also false advertising in hindsight, since we never got it in-game.

View attachment 321456

For a next MK, I’ll definitely wait for the complete/ultimate edition, that’s for damn sure.

I learned my lesson after that MK XL bs...

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Remember too when Boon said “We’re not even close to finished” when referring to remaining content after Aftermath was released? Guess that was a lie too. lol Or covid affected that plan.

Even them saying MK11 was supported over 2 years is giving themselves too much credit. It was more like 1.5 years, in terms of content released at least (I know they slowed down in content to circumvent the crunch for the base game, but still). They said it was gonna be supported longer than the average game, but I guess diminishing returns or something along with covid made them change their mind.

Regardless, less and less people trust NRS now more than ever, and will only get their next games when complete/ultimate editions come out, if they do at all.

 

[evanwoo10]

Remember too when Boon said “We’re not even close to finished” when referring to remaining content after Aftermath was released? Guess that was a lie too. lol Or covid affected that plan.

Even them saying MK11 was supported over 2 years is giving themselves too much credit. It was more like 1.5 years, in terms of content released at least (I know they slowed down in content to circumvent the crunch for the base game, but still). They said it was gonna be supported longer than the average game, but I guess diminishing returns or something along with covid made them change their mind.

Regardless, less and less people trust NRS now more than ever, and will only get their next games when complete/ultimate editions come out, if they do at all.

I think there was at least a plan for something in the future, like a small Kombat Pack (at least) or Movie skins. Ed Boon definitely seemed like he was teasing or playing with us for another Kombat Pack. It feels like Reptile, Smoke, and Ermac were brought up a lot.

I think the reason why we didn’t get anything else, had to do with the merger. I don’t think Mortal Kombat is in danger, but I think WB Games wants to get new projects out from as many studios as they can, to bring in a lot of cash to prove their worth. It has felt like every studio they own are lacking in some kind of new game or experience for the players.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I think you're right, though in hindsight it's kinda funny when MK11 was announced after Smash Ultimate was (like revealed a day before Ultimate was actually released at 2018's TGA), but Smash was still supported with DLC and stuff longer, by like a year or so. They had said too MK11 would be supported longer than two years, which ended up being a broken promise regardless of what behind the scenes factors led to it.

And now with today's news, you already have fans asking about Injustice 3. The cycle continues... I don't think NRS games having such short lifespans really works well with how fighting games tend to operate now. I mostly blame WB for NRS not being able to support some games as long as they could, but still.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I think you're right, though in hindsight it's kinda funny when MK11 was announced after Smash Ultimate was (like revealed a day before Ultimate was actually released at 2018's TGA), but Smash was still supported with DLC and stuff longer, by like a year or so. They had said too MK11 would be supported longer than two years, which ended up being a broken promise regardless of what behind the scenes factors led to it.

And now with today's news, you already have fans asking about Injustice 3. The cycle continues... I don't think NRS games having such short lifespans really works well with how fighting games tend to operate now. I mostly blame WB for NRS not being able to support some games as long as they could, but still.

Is two years and three packs considered a short time?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Is two years and three packs considered a short time?

In the grand scheme of things, yes. With how long fighting games are typically supported, Netherrealm Studio games are bottom of the barrel.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Some fun fact time!
Highest selling Fighting Game Franchises

• Super Smash Bros. - 65.07 million.
• Mortal Kombat - 54 million.
• Tekken - 51 million.
• Street Fighter - 46 million.
• Soulcalibur - 15 million.
• Virtua Fighter- 5.4 million.
• Arms - 2.38 million.

Something big is missing (says the guy who does still want Nightmare, btw)

Spoiler: Broken Down

1. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - 23.84 million
2. Street Fighter II - 15.5 million
3. Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 13.32 million
4. Mortal Kombat X - 11 million
5. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 9.62 million
6. Street Fighter IV - 9.1 million
7. Tekken 3 - 8.3 million
8. Tekken 5 - 8.2 million
9. Mortal Kombat 11 - 8 million
10. Super Smash Bros. Melee - 7.09 million
11. Tekken 7 - 7 million
12. Street Fighter II: The World Warrior - 6.3 million
13. Dragon Ball FighterZ - 6 million
14. Tekken 2 - 5.7 million
15. Super Smash Bros. - 5.55 million
16. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - 5.37 Million
17. Street Fighter V - 5.2 million
18. Arms - 2.38 million
19. Virtua Fighter 2 - 2.5 million
20. Virtua Fighter 4 - 1.5 million
21. Virtua Fighter - 1.5 million

In the grand scheme of things, yes. With how long fighting games are typically supported, Netherrealm Studio games are bottom of the barrel.

View attachment 321514

The graphic is definitely helpful-
Granted, it does seem like part of what we see is that NRS has to make the choice between one game at a time. For them to start on another game they seem to need to stop working on a former one...I'm not sure any of these other games really have that limitation, which is one for which I cannot fault the company.[/spoiler]

 

[Cantplaythesolo]

The only fighter I'm at all interested in that isn't in the game already is Scorpion/Sub Zero ala Simon/Richter.

I'll be very disappointed if it isn't them or at an incredibly distant second, Crash.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Some fun fact time!
Highest selling Fighting Game Franchises

• Super Smash Bros. - 65.07 million.
• Mortal Kombat - 54 million.
• Tekken - 51 million.
• Street Fighter - 46 million.
• Soulcalibur - 15 million.
• Virtua Fighter- 5.4 million.
• Arms - 2.38 million.

Something big is missing (says the guy who does still want Nightmare, btw)

Spoiler: Broken Down

1. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - 23.84 million
2. Street Fighter II - 15.5 million
3. Super Smash Bros. Brawl - 13.32 million
4. Mortal Kombat X - 11 million
5. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS - 9.62 million
6. Street Fighter IV - 9.1 million
7. Tekken 3 - 8.3 million
8. Tekken 5 - 8.2 million
9. Mortal Kombat 11 - 8 million
10. Super Smash Bros. Melee - 7.09 million
11. Tekken 7 - 7 million
12. Street Fighter II: The World Warrior - 6.3 million
13. Dragon Ball FighterZ - 6 million
14. Tekken 2 - 5.7 million
15. Super Smash Bros. - 5.55 million
16. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - 5.37 Million
17. Street Fighter V - 5.2 million
18. Arms - 2.38 million
19. Virtua Fighter 2 - 2.5 million
20. Virtua Fighter 4 - 1.5 million
21. Virtua Fighter - 1.5 million

The graphic is definitely helpful-
Granted, it does seem like part of what we see is that NRS has to make the choice between one game at a time. For them to start on another game they seem to need to stop working on a former one...I'm not sure any of these other games really have that limitation, which is one for which I cannot fault the company.[/spoiler]

As much as I want Scorpion, Nightmare would be freaking amazing!

Btw, I made this trailer idea up A LONG TIME AGO. It was right around the time when Smash Ultimate was 1st revealed entirely and we got to see that Echo Fighters were a thing. Funny enough, without the Echo Fighters being a thing, I may have not thought of a better way to end the trailer. Tell me what you guys think.

(TRAILER START)

It all starts in a dark lair, similar to the Ridley reveal. There are torches lining a long drawn out hallway with a few broken pots along the base of the walls. We see Ryu followed by Link and Captain Falcon walking down the seemingly endless barely lit path. (Periodic screaming and horrifying cries are heard from every direction)

(The continuous cries of anguish become louder and louder as they reach what appears to be the end of the path)

They come to a broken down doorway at the end of the hall. Upon entering the room an unnerving silence settles. Ryu's eyes look determined as if he can sense some great power is near. Link and Captain Falcon see Ryu's alert expression and stand back to back. (A slight chuckle is heard in the the same room our heroes our now in)

Ryu centers in on the sound and notices a giant throne that is now more visible than before the laughter. Link and Captain Falcon notice that Ryu seems worried as he gazes solidly forward. They all prepare for battle upon seeing two blood red eyes glaring at them from the throne.

The room suddlenly becomes darker by forces unknown, while our heroes frantically position themselves closer to the center of the room while bracing for whatever made that sound.

SWOOSH!!!!! (Frost Cracking Sound)

Out of nowhere and as fast as lightning a blueish missile like object flies directly from a corner of the room straight toward our heroes, everyone attempts to dodge as Captain Falcon and Ryu's faces are illuminated in the blue light periodically. The 2 recover from their evasive action as they look up and are in shock. They then realize that Link has been frozen solid.. Captain Falcon urgently tries tobreak Link free as Ryu rushes to stop his ally from touching the statue... Ryu misses Captains arm by an inch and Captain hits the statue with too much force as Link falls and crashes into pieces. They then witness the figure on the throne has a shiny green object that violently extracts the soul of Link!! (Link's final screams can be heard) Captain Falcon kneels with his head down while holding pieces of the shattered warrior in his hands seemingly enraged.

SUDDENLY Captain Falcon rushes the throne head on without warning... When out of nowhere he is stopped by a giant wall of ice that he unavoidingly slams directly into and almost faints. Upon nearly losing consciousness a mysterious hooded figure is shown to be on the other side of the ice staring down at Captain Falcon.

(Captain Falcon blacks out)

RIGHT THEN AND THERE comes A LOUD BATTLE CRY!!!

GET OVER HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!

A spear comes hurling through the darkness straight at RYU!!! Ryu dodges and then sees his opponent blazing in a firey aura and readies himself. Splash Screen (Scorpion Gets TOASTY!!!) Ryu, thinking he is ready for the battle fires a HADOKEN straight at Scorpion!! Scorpion jumps in the air, bounces off of the nearest wall, and throws yet another spear while shouting, COME HERE!!!!!

(SLOW MOTION)

Again, Ryu attempts to dodge, but only too late does he realize how much colder his body has gotten. As the spear flies toward Ryu, he looks down to his feet...they are FROZEN to the ground. He then hears and feels deep slow breathing on the back of his neck. (the viewer can see the icy breath coming from the darkness) Instantly!! Two powerful icy arms wrap around Ryu's own arms holding him firmly in place with Ryu then GASPING upon seeing the identity of his 2nd attacker. Splash Screen (Sub-Zero Attains FLAWLESS VICTORY)

Ryu frantically struggles to break free, but he is simply trapped.. Ryu looks into Sub-Zeros eyes with a hint of trust. (Seeing that there is some good in him) Sub-Zero acknowledges but appears to be under some sort of mind control. (SLOW MOTION ENDS) Finally, Ryu loses all hope and as soon as he does, the spear strikes him with the camera cutting to his eyes as Ryu falls to his knees and before fainting, reaches out his hand to the knocked out Captain Falcon, lending the rest of his energy to him.

Moments later...

Captain Falcon regains a bit of consciousness. He sees two shadowy hooded figures (one yellow, one blue) carrying his allies corpses away. He then hears a much louder laugh (HAHAHAHAHA) as he looks back at the throne... The figure on the throne finally gets up and walks toward Captain Falcons still mostly paralyzed body. The closer the figure gets, the more Captain Falcon recognizes it. It is revealed to be none other than his Arch-Rival Splash Screen (Black Shadow Evens The Odds!)

Captain Falcon tries his hardest to regain some of his strength while grounded as the room lights up green around his enemy preparing to imprison his spirit forever. Captain Falcon puts the rest of his energy into his right arm as his rival comes even closer... He shouts at last minute FALCON...PUNCH.... Black Shadow simply smirks and catches Captain Falcons weakened punch and delivers a body shattering kick (red background similar to Ridley killing Mario and Megaman) to Captain Falcon's face... blacking out the Captain, camera, and trailer.

With one last word being heard during the trailer ending.... "FATALITY!"

THE END.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I have forever felt Sub Zero would be an echo of Scorpion (and honestly, I do think they were choices that should have been in base roster, for that fact, and also because it would have added a mature element to the base game's newcomers).
I can still see that happening if Scorpion somehow managed to be the final fighter (which I really don't think is happening), and with that extra slot being an echo fighter for those who bought the pass.

It would explain why it was higher up- that perhaps Scorpion was going to be the E3 character, but they switched Pythra first and knocked everyone back so that they didn't do a Byleth.

But we will find out soon enough.

 

[IzukuXYang4Life]

It is certainly unlikely- given that we only have 4 fighting game characters total (counting Street Fighter as one), but it still could happen- we've gotten back to back RPG characters this pass, several times.

Really wish Sakurai would stop making the DLC Opps all RPG characters.

There are other game genres that need some representation.

Quit throwing in the same darn thing over and over again and again and please Sakurai!!! Do something else other than an RPG character.

I'm sick to death of them (As well as DLC sword fighters).

Still. Since Fighter Pass 2 still hasn't gotten an M rated rep yet. I do think it would be sweet seeing Scorpion as the final character.

As I do think we need to see more American characters in Smash (It should not be rocket science or the equivalent of nuclear physics for Sakurai to include more American reps in the game).

Feel free to either agree or disagree with.

Although Personally. I would love see Sub-Zero in the game as opposed to Scorpion.

 

[Inferno7]

Really wish Sakurai would stop making the DLC Opps all RPG characters.

There are other game genres that need some representation.

Quit throwing in the same darn thing over and over again and again and please Sakurai!!! Do something else other than an RPG character.

I'm sick to death of them (As well as DLC sword fighters).

idk why you keep spamming this in every thread you go to, but what I never really understood is why people think this is a problem

First off, not all JRPGs are the same, sub-genres like Strategy, Turn-Based or Action RPGs exist, so do your own research before complaining. Heck, JPRG is just short for Japanese Role-Playing Game, ofc they are not gonna be identical just because they were made in the same place. Guess Dark Souls would just be another JRPG if it wasn't western-centric.

Secondly, they don't play nearly the same, it's borderline moronic to say somebody like Sephiroth plays the same as Pyra or Mythra. Even small details such as Marth's or Roy's tipper can make a world of difference in playstyles from their echoes, if you say otherwise, then I'm sorry, but you are just ignorant or hating in bad faith.

People also conveniently forget that platformers are by far the most oversaturated genre in the roster, yet god forbid I say something about them.

Furthermore, there's way more fist fighters than there is swordies, but again, god forbid I mention that.

And last but not least,
duh, this is a fighting game, guess what weapons like swords are for? yeah, to fight. This alone makes JRPG characters better suited to join this game than many of the other characters from games such as Animal Crossing.

On other note, I agree that more western reps should be added, but you have to take into account that it's not easy to get them, not only due to the language barrier, but because this is a japanese game made by a japanese company.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Really wish Sakurai would stop making the DLC Opps all RPG characters.

There are other game genres that need some representation.

Quit throwing in the same darn thing over and over again and again and please Sakurai!!! Do something else other than an RPG character.

I'm sick to death of them (As well as DLC sword fighters).

Still. Since Fighter Pass 2 still hasn't gotten an M rated rep yet. I do think it would be sweet seeing Scorpion as the final character.

As I do think we need to see more American characters in Smash (It should not be rocket science or the equivalent of nuclear physics for Sakurai to include more American reps in the game).

Feel free to either agree or disagree with.

Although Personally. I would love see Sub-Zero in the game as opposed to Scorpion.

Hey man- we have only gotten 6 RPG characters out of twelve currently released. That's less than the 4/7 we got in Sm4sh.

As for American reps- I understand language can be a barrier- that it is easiest to understand someone when there are fewest barriers.
But I cannot fathom that all big game companies don't have intense Japanese and English translators, which have worked with the companies long enough to be able to strongly represent them.

idk why you keep spamming this in every thread you go to, but what I never really understood is why people think this is a problem

Well, to start, see the numbers I mentioned above. More than half of DLC ever has been from RPGs, and that is a hell of a lot.

First off, not all JRPGs are the same, sub-genres like Strategy, Turn-Based or Action RPGs exist, so do your own research before complaining. Heck, JPRG is just short for Japanese Role-Playing Game, ofc they are not gonna be identical just because they were made in the same place. Guess Dark Souls would just be another JRPG if it wasn't western-centric.

a JRPG is just an RPG from Japan- as far as genres, even sub genres, there is absolutely no necessary difference in gameplay due to the genre.
There are also a lot of different types of any game- but this argument seems mostly used to just diffuse the conversation, and completely dissuade that genres exist in the first place.

Secondly, they don't play nearly the same, it's borderline moronic to say somebody like Sephiroth plays the same as Pyra or Mythra. Even small details such as Marth's or Roy's tipper can make a world of difference in playstyles from their echoes, if you say otherwise, then I'm sorry, but you are just ignorant or hating in bad faith.

Honestly, I think you're missing the point. Some people like RPGs, others dont like them so much. Sure, there are people that like one and not another. I, personally, enjoy very few- and I say this as a person who delves into characters as top priority in fictional media.
But, if you are overall a fan of the RPG genre- which is many people- these passes are factually hitting the same targets, over and over, rather than set sight on a few more wide-ranged targets.

People also conveniently forget that platformers are by far the most oversaturated genre in the roster, yet god forbid I say something about them.

Factually, absolutely incorrect.

SERIES:
This is, even removing Mario and Pokemon, since one would be platform, one would be RPG- but neither truly fits in a single category at this point.
It's also of note that the game currently has characters from 39 series. Of those, only 16 series are series that have more than a single character, and 23 series have one singular rep.

Platform:
Platform series with multiple characters include- Kirby, 1/16 (or if we add in Mario series), 3/16. Or, if you want to include the Mario characters, then add in DK and Mario.
Single character series- Ice Climbers - Banjo Kazooie - Sonic - Megaman. So, 4/23 or 6/23 with Yoshi and Wario (which wouldn't make sense as an individual series, anyway... but I'm putting it in favor of your argument).

RPGS:
- Final Fantasy - Fire Emblem - Earthbound - Xenoblade (and all of them could be argued to have more characters than there number of games and sales really account for...except third party series, Final Fantasy). That is 4/16 total multi character series. Or 5/16 if we are counting Pokemon (which I don't)
Meanwhile, if you add in all the single character RPGs in the game, we have Persona and Dragon Quest. So, only 3/23 series with one rep come from RPGs- meaning, if it is an RPG, it is almost certain to get multiple characters. The only ones that havnt were DLC.

TOTALS:
Platform at 5/39 (without the Mario characters), or 9/39 (with Mario, DK, Yoshi, and Wario).
RPG 6/39 (without Pokemon) or 5/39 (with Pokemon). Not actually that much...
- with platformers rarely getting multiple characters per series, at max only 3 getting multiple characters, compared to a minimum of six for RPG- which isn't even a parallel argument).

CHARACTERS:

PLATFORM:
Ice Climbers, Kirby, Dedede, Metaknight, Sonic, Megaman, Banjo Kazooie. (I'm not sure it is even fair to include Dk through Yoshi, because again, they tend to come from HUGE series- Platform, Party, Sports, Racing, RPG, all being completely separate rankings in the top sales charts). For the sake of it, I will add in Mario, Dr Mario, Peach, Daisy, Bowser, Bowser Jr, Plant, Peach, Luigi, Rosalina, Yoshi, DK, Diddy, K Rool, Wario (which are ten that honestly, are ridiculous to count, and Warioware isn't a platformer.)
MY PERSONAL COUNT for this is 7.
Adding in all the Mario characters- 15, but it is seriously a stretch.

RPG:
Marth, Roy, Lucina, Chrom, Robin, Ike, Corrin, Byleth, Lucas, Ness, Pyra, Mythra, Hero, Joker, Sephiroth, Cloud.
That is 16, alone, but I am going to add in Pokemon if we are counting Mario in platforming.
Pikachu, Jiggs, Pichu, Mewtwo, Lucario, Squirtle, Charizard, Ivysaur, Greninja, Incineroar. That is 25.
Of these, the DLC was 5 RPG for Smash 4 (out of seven), 3 for Pass 1 (out of either 5 or 6, depending), and 3 for pass 2 (out of 6 currently). Meaning, the DLC has been 11/19 at top count.

TOTALS:
So the count is either: Platform 7 to RPG 15, or Platform 15 and RPG 26.
Neither favors the notion that there are more Platform characters- but in fact, it shows that RPG characters have double, or one and a half times, more characters than platform.

 

[Inferno7]

Hey man- we have only gotten 6 RPG characters out of twelve currently released. That's less than the 4/7 we got in Sm4sh.

As for American reps- I understand language can be a barrier- that it is easiest to understand someone when there are fewest barriers.
But I cannot fathom that all big game companies don't have intense Japanese and English translators, which have worked with the companies long enough to be able to strongly represent them.


Well, to start, see the numbers I mentioned above. More than half of DLC ever has been from RPGs, and that is a hell of a lot.


a JRPG is just an RPG from Japan- as far as genres, even sub genres, there is absolutely no necessary difference in gameplay due to the genre.
There are also a lot of different types of any game- but this argument seems mostly used to just diffuse the conversation, and completely dissuade that genres exist in the first place.


Honestly, I think you're missing the point. Some people like RPGs, others dont like them so much. Sure, there are people that like one and not another. I, personally, enjoy very few- and I say this as a person who delves into characters as top priority in fictional media.
But, if you are overall a fan of the RPG genre- which is many people- these passes are factually hitting the same targets, over and over, rather than set sight on a few more wide-ranged targets.


Factually, absolutely incorrect.

SERIES:
This is, even removing Mario and Pokemon, since one would be platform, one would be RPG- but neither truly fits in a single category at this point.
It's also of note that the game currently has characters from 39 series. Of those, only 16 series are series that have more than a single character, and 23 series have one singular rep.

Platform:
Platform series with multiple characters include- Kirby, 1/16 (or if we add in Mario series), 3/16. Or, if you want to include the Mario characters, then add in DK and Mario.
Single character series- Ice Climbers - Banjo Kazooie - Sonic - Megaman. So, 4/23 or 6/23 with Yoshi and Wario (which wouldn't make sense as an individual series, anyway... but I'm putting it in favor of your argument).

RPGS:
- Final Fantasy - Fire Emblem - Earthbound - Xenoblade (and all of them could be argued to have more characters than there number of games and sales really account for...except third party series, Final Fantasy). That is 4/16 total multi character series. Or 5/16 if we are counting Pokemon (which I don't)
Meanwhile, if you add in all the single character RPGs in the game, we have Persona and Dragon Quest. So, only 3/23 series with one rep come from RPGs- meaning, if it is an RPG, it is almost certain to get multiple characters. The only ones that havnt were DLC.

TOTALS:
Platform at 5/39 (without the Mario characters), or 9/39 (with Mario, DK, Yoshi, and Wario).
RPG 6/39 (without Pokemon) or 5/39 (with Pokemon). Not actually that much...
- with platformers rarely getting multiple characters per series, at max only 3 getting multiple characters, compared to a minimum of six for RPG- which isn't even a parallel argument).

CHARACTERS:

PLATFORM:
Ice Climbers, Kirby, Dedede, Metaknight, Sonic, Megaman, Banjo Kazooie. (I'm not sure it is even fair to include Dk through Yoshi, because again, they tend to come from HUGE series- Platform, Party, Sports, Racing, RPG, all being completely separate rankings in the top sales charts). For the sake of it, I will add in Mario, Dr Mario, Peach, Daisy, Bowser, Bowser Jr, Plant, Peach, Luigi, Rosalina, Yoshi, DK, Diddy, K Rool, Wario (which are ten that honestly, are ridiculous to count, and Warioware isn't a platformer.)
MY PERSONAL COUNT for this is 7.
Adding in all the Mario characters- 15, but it is seriously a stretch.

RPG:
Marth, Roy, Lucina, Chrom, Robin, Ike, Corrin, Byleth, Lucas, Ness, Pyra, Mythra, Hero, Joker, Sephiroth, Cloud.
That is 16, alone, but I am going to add in Pokemon if we are counting Mario in platforming.
Pikachu, Jiggs, Pichu, Mewtwo, Lucario, Squirtle, Charizard, Ivysaur, Greninja, Incineroar. That is 25.
Of these, the DLC was 5 RPG for Smash 4 (out of seven), 3 for Pass 1 (out of either 5 or 6, depending), and 3 for pass 2 (out of 6 currently). Meaning, the DLC has been 11/19 at top count.

TOTALS:
So the count is either: Platform 7 to RPG 15, or Platform 15 and RPG 26.
Neither favors the notion that there are more Platform characters- but in fact, it shows that RPG characters have double, or one and a half times, more characters than platform.

''Factually incorrect''
You better check your sources before telling me that, but nice try nonetheless
-9 Mario characters (11 if you include Yoshi and Wario) - Mario, Yoshi*, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario, Wario*, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Daisy, Piranha Plant
-3 Donkey Kong Country characters - Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and King K. Rool
-4 Metroid characters (if you count that, cause of the earlier Metroid games) - Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Ridley, Dark Samus
-3 Kirby characters - Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede
-Ice Climbers
-Sonic
-Mega Man
-Simon and Richter Belmont (+2)
-Banjo & Kazooie
Total = 23 Platformer reps, 27 if you include the Metroid reps (which you should tbh)
Even if you don't agree, it's still fairly close, yet you NEVER EVER see people complaining about platformers, in fact, you see people whining for more, asking for characters like Crash with the basis that they are ''under-represented'', which is just as nonsense as the JRPG complaints which actually show far more variety and diversity when it comes to gameplay.

Also what? Same audience? If that was the case some Golden Sun fans wouldn't have a hate boner against Xenoblade, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Golden Sun fans wouldn't have a hate boner against Xenoblade

I would've liked your post had it not been for this. GS and Xenoblade would be separate audiences not because GS fans hate Xenoblade but because GS is an older series.

 

[Inferno7]

I would've liked your post had it not been for this. GS and Xenoblade would be separate audiences not because GS fans hate Xenoblade but because GS is an older series.

My goal never was to beg for likes once I logged in to this site anyway, I've always thought it's a flawed system that encourages a sheep-like mentality
Also, what you said already proves there are different audiences.
Even if you dismiss, there are cases in which some people can't stand Strategy RPGs, meanwhile they do love Action-based ones (actually me if you were curious).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Also, what you said already proves there are different audiences.

Well yeah I wasn't trying to disprove that they're different audiences, just that they aren't separate because of hatred.

 

[pupNapoleon]

''Factually incorrect''
You better check your sources before telling me that, but nice try nonetheless
-9 Mario characters (11 if you include Yoshi and Wario) - Mario, Yoshi*, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Dr. Mario, Wario*, Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Daisy, Piranha Plant
-3 Donkey Kong Country characters - Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, and King K. Rool
-4 Metroid characters (if you count that, cause of the earlier Metroid games) - Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Ridley, Dark Samus
-3 Kirby characters - Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede
-Ice Climbers
-Sonic
-Mega Man
-Simon and Richter Belmont (+2)
-Banjo & Kazooie
Total = 23 Platformer reps, 27 if you include the Metroid reps (which you should tbh)
Even if you don't agree, it's still fairly close, yet you NEVER EVER see people complaining about platformers, in fact, you see people whining for more, asking for characters like Crash with the basis that they are ''under-represented'', which is just as nonsense as the JRPG complaints which actually show far more variety and diversity when it comes to gameplay.

Also what? Same audience? If that was the case some Golden Sun fans wouldn't have a hate boner against Xenoblade, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

To start, the hostility is greatly unwarranted.
That said, I did miss one Mario character. That doesn't change much of anything.
I don't know in what realm Metroidvania's- which actually use a lot of RPG and shooter elements- can be considered platform characters, and if they, then Zelda is an RPG, due to the acquisition of weapons, boss battles, progression of intensity, upgrades to the character (armor). Neither of these classifications makes any sense, even more in juxtaposition when you to the claim that subgenres of RPGs matter.
I see fewer people ask for platform characters (with exactly two exceptions- Crash and Rayman), than I do a large variety of RPGs (Lloyd, Sora, Isaac,

As far as variety of gameplay- that's really up to the individual. With the exceptions of Dr Mario & Daisy, there is no overlap of platform characters. In addition to RPG characters being favored for echoes/clones (Roy, Lucina, Chrom, Lucas). (Also, if we are counting Metroid, we inherently are counting Castlevania and Megaman...but I just cannot come to the idea that these make any sense in the platform category, particularly in something like Metroid, wherein 3/8 released titles/stories are first person shooters*).
*The four main Metroid games, 3 Prime, and Other M... I don't count remakes, but I may be missing a title.

I do think I'm being fair grouping RPGs together, since I personally disregard sub genres in this context, but also because I am not subdividing each Platform character (in which case, we would have significantly more variation, given majority of Mario characters being given their own games, since you seem to want to count Mario- Luigi's Mansion, Yoshi's Island, DK Country, the original Donkey Kong games, Warioware, Dr Mario-- which accounts to more than half of the Mario characters, and arguably Daisy, who is much more recognizable from the Mario Sports/Party/Kart series).

It really is absurd to count either Mario or Pokemon as one genre- in Mario alone, considering there is every type of series under them.
Mario Party, Mario Sports, Mario Kart, Paper Mario/Mario and Luigi, are all considered completely different series, with each making a substantial amount of money on their own.

I'm not saying it matters if there are more Platform or RPG characters, that was brought up by you. I'm simply stating there are a substantial amount- nearly one third or double, the amount of RPG characters than Platform. Those are the numbers.