Toad Discussion

[vesperview]

Well the way you sounded, was very much like comparing that situation to the Kirby series. Plenty of generic enemies are in the spinoffs as well, what's your point. Nothing, b/c your only left with 1 game.

My point is that Toad means more to the Mario series that some stupid Kid Dragon who can be disposed by the next gen and leaving Bowser as the main villain all over again, Bowser Jr could be cut just like the Koopa Kids were.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

My point is that Toad means more to the Mario series that some stupid Kid Dragon who can be disposed by the next gen and leaving Bowser as the main villain all over again, Bowser Jr could be cut just like the Koopa Kids were.

But he won't whether you like it or not. Toad is only a species of the series and I don't see what they do for the series much more than a villain. It's like Koopa Troopa to Bowser. Jr. may have debuted late in the series, but he's made a name for himself and will continue doing so. Like some stupid humanoid mushroom creature that's always in the background serves more of a purpose than a villain.

 

[vesperview]

But he won't whether you like it or not. Toad is only a species of the series and I don't see what they do for the series much more than a villain. It's like Koopa Troopa to Bowser. Jr. may have debuted late in the series, but he's made a name for himself and will continue doing so. Like some stupid humanoid mushroom creature that's always in the background serves more of a purpose than a villain.

You talk as if Bowser Jr is the main villain or something, cutting him would do no harm to the series, he is just a filler villain, don't tell me he is more important than Toad, he isn't ok.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

You talk as if Bowser Jr is the main villain or something, cutting him would do no harm to the series, he is just a filler villain, don't tell me he is more important than Toad, he isn't ok.

Who knows? He could very well be the next main villain. I don't ever see a Toad becoming a main character in any future games. Your only saying someone is more important based on the fact of how long he's been on the series and not what major roles he plays in the series. As far as I'm concerned Toads could be Goombas, Troopas, and any other generic enemy(in the background and serving no real purpose, but just to be there).

 

[shinhed-echi]

"Importance in role" for one or two games doesn't even COMPARE to revolutionizing a whole VIDEO GAME GENRE.

But that's something only a few people like me would know.

"Oooh, aaah.. Bowser had another kid, and this one wears a mask and a paintbrush, how original!"

I'm not even going to argue any further.. Each Koopakid was original and different in its own way (and the weren't called like their dad, and added JR.

Story importance VS Video game overall importance.. .Pfftt... that's hillarious...


Wii sports, Victorious Boxer, and even TINGLE's Rupeeland acknowledge the awesomeness of Punch Out. Wii Boxing and Victorious Boxers (And any other Boxer game you find you there) are based on Punch Out's system. THAT'S importance.


Sure, some of you may flame me right now.. But remember you aren't the only gamers out there Sakurai is trying to please.

Anything's possible right now. I can't say if he's IN or not. Just don't count Bowser Jr. IN just yet... An Assist Trophy update could ruin your dreams before you know it..

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

"Importance in role" for one or two games doesn't even COMPARE to revolutionizing a whole VIDEO GAME GENRE.

But that's something only a few people like me would know.

"Oooh, aaah.. Bowser had another kid, and this one wears a mask and a paintbrush, how original!"

I'm not even going to argue any further.. Each Koopakid was original and different in its own way (and the weren't called like their dad, and added JR.

Story importance VS Video game overall importance.. .Pfftt... that's hillarious...


Wii sports, Victorious Boxer, and even TINGLE's Rupeeland acknowledge the awesomeness of Punch Out. Wii Boxing and Victorious Boxers (And any other Boxer game you find you there) are based on Punch Out's system. THAT'S importance.


Sure, some of you may flame me right now.. But remember you aren't the only gamers out there Sakurai is trying to please.

Anything's possible right now. I can't say if he's IN or not. Just don't count Bowser Jr. IN just yet... An Assist Trophy update could ruin your dreams before you know it..

Stories are what makes the video games purpose isn't it? Without the story, what is the game about? What does Toad acknowledge other than a citizen in a Kingdom? Just b/c a character maybe be unoriginal has nothing to do with their chances whatsoever if it's a totally different character that can do totally different things. It doesn't matter if he becomes an AT atleast he'll be doing something useful in Brawl.

 

[T-major]

My point is that Toad means more to the Mario series that some stupid Kid Dragon who can be disposed by the next gen and leaving Bowser as the main villain all over again, Bowser Jr could be cut just like the Koopa Kids were.

how so? Bowser Jr. actually has a purpose in the games he's in. he's the son of Bowser, the main antagonist, and helps Bowser with his plans to Kidnap Princess Peach. thats a very important role.

Toad's just sort of... there; he doesn't serve a point. all he really does is tell you that Princess Peach got kidnapped; but most of the time Mario knows whats going on without the help of Toad. you can say that "he's playable in the spin off games!" yeah, he is, but so is Bowser Jr. so that that argument doesn't hold much water.

and the Koopa Kid's weren't cut. they were in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, and were planed to be in Super Princess Peach. Nintendo just doesn't want to use them more often for some reason, but there still there.

and Shinhed, what exactly did Toad do for video games overall? telling you that your in the wrong castle had hardly no impact on video games other than being an awesome video game quote...

 

[shinhed-echi]

Umm... ^^^^

I'm not really supporting Toad.. but w/e XD

Sure Toad's been around longer, but it'll be a cold day in h*** the day a generic species' character get in over Main Characters! >=(

*looks at Yoshi... looks at Little Mac*

T.T noooooooooooooooooooo...!!!!!!!!! *kills himself*

 

[T-major]

Umm... ^^^^

I'm not really supporting Toad.. but w/e XD

Sure Toad's been around longer, but it'll be a cold day in h*** the day a generic species' character get in over Main Characters! >=(

*looks at Yoshi... looks at Little Mac*

T.T noooooooooooooooooooo...!!!!!!!!! *kills himself*

oh, sorry. I though you were supporting Toad. ^^;

and I see where your coming from with Little Mac; but Nintendo didn't think he was important enough, and since they're calling the shots, they must be right.

 

[Earthbenderjump5]

hm......well.....i've been readin' and well...

actually without.....toad.....there wouldn't be mario.
and without bowser jr. there wouldn't be F.L.U.D.D. in brawl....as mario's attack...cough.
and without toad peach wouldn't have anyone to stare at while she's being captured or have to warn mario or give him messages or clues to where she is at. or hints in the game.
without bowser jr. bowser wouldn't have someone to help him make up his evil schemes, so well there both evend out, but i agree there do need to be more thigns in here other than mario, they have 5 or 6 playable already, and with the confirmed ones right now thats almost 1/5, don't get me wrong now mario is nintendo, but well there needs to be more...im just sayin' i want just 1 more zelda character.....or a sonic character or even anthoer pokemon, considering theres only 2 charcters (not including the 3 pkmn with the trainer but he counts as 1) i don't want thoes non regognized games i may, like ice climbers i really like um' if only they could make them more like that. :D

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't think Bowser ever needed any help from anyone to carry out his schemes...

Scept of course the Koopalings in SMB3 and SMW.


Now that I think of it... it just hit me... we could might as well have Knuckles or Tails over another Mario character..

Though I love the idea of ATs, if one of my next desired characters enters in AT form, I'd be happy. But honestly... do we really really need so many Mario characters? This goes for both Toad AND Bowser Jr.

We could use another F-Zero pilot... we could use another Fire Emblem.. another 3rd party character from a yet unrepresented OR represented franchise.

We could also have characters from titles that have appeared on the Virtual Console.

The possibilities are endless... why waste them on more Mario? That's just a thought though..

I guess I'm neutral on character inclutions.. I might have a thing against some characters leaving though.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Toad is far more important to the series than Bowser Jr. if that's what's being argued. Toad has been around for ages, and while there are lots of Toads in the mushroom kingdom, there is only one "Toad" and he's been around since the beginning. Bowser jr. is new and is really no more important than Koopa Kid or the Koopalings.

 

[Masque]

Dude. That's, like, the worst argument ever.

Mushrooms aren't plants. D=

Spoiler

Settle down, Beavis!

Haha, this was perhaps my favorite post of the entire thread thus far. And, indeed, mushrooms are fungi--very much not plants.

 

[Akiak]

Haha, this was perhaps my favorite post of the entire thread thus far. And, indeed, mushrooms are fungi--very much not plants.

Wow Aeris is back!!! I agree that was pretty funny.

Well here is my opinion on Toad vs Jr. Toad has been a star in Wario Woods, a player in all sport games (exception for Mario hoops), a character in most of the Mario Party series, AND he was invented back in the first Mario games.
He would be a strong character with a pretty unique moveset. He also has a decent fanbase and not be a clone.
Now, has Jr ever had his own game? No and he has only been a villain in some games. He is JUST a son of the main villain. Including Jr. in Brawl is like including a Waddle Dee (they are kind of like sons of Dedede), Mew (mewtwo's son kinda), young Ganondorf, or a Ridley egg.

Another thing is that maybe Young Link won't make it in Brawl. He is the actual young form of the most obvious character they would include after Mario. If Young Link doesen't make it then Bowser Jr. is history.
See what I mean?

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Toad is far more important to the series than Bowser Jr. if that's what's being argued. Toad has been around for ages, and while there are lots of Toads in the mushroom kingdom, there is only one "Toad" and he's been around since the beginning. Bowser jr. is new and is really no more important than Koopa Kid or the Koopalings.

As I said before, you are arguing the fact that Toad has been there longer than Jr. and that really isn't important at all. All the other generic enemies have been there longer too, so what? Bowser Jr. as said in above posts, actually serves a purpose for the games he is in, while Toad is there to tell you stuff you already know or just to be there(not really important at all). Face it, Jr. has a bigger chance than Toad.

 

[Masque]

Wow Aeris is back!!! I agree that was pretty funny.

Well here is my opinion on Toad vs Jr. Toad has been a star in Wario Woods, a player in all sport games (exception for Mario hoops), a character in most of the Mario Party series, AND he was invented back in the first Mario games.
He would be a strong character with a pretty unique moveset. He also has a decent fanbase and not be a clone.
Now, has Jr ever had his own game? No and he has only been a villain in some games. He is JUST a son of the main villain. Including Jr. in Brawl is like including a Waddle Dee (they are kind of like sons of Dedede), Mew (mewtwo's son kinda), young Ganondorf, or a Ridley egg.

Another thing is that maybe Young Link won't make it in Brawl. He is the actual young form of the most obvious character they would include after Mario. If Young Link doesen't make it then Bowser Jr. is history.
See what I mean?

Indeed I am! College prevents me from posting on a more regular basis, but it's reassuring to hear that my sporadic input is so well received.

I'm going to have to disagree with your logic regarding Bowser Jr., though. While my own agnosticism prevents me from truly accepting the following as fact--and I beg the forgiveness of any to whom I cause offense due to my perceived blasphemy--but calling Bowser Jr. JUST a son of the main villain is comparable (in a way) to calling Jesus of Nazareth JUST the son of the Christian God. Granted, Bowser Jr. is not held quite in as high esteem as his father, but his roles have become increasingly prominent in recent years. While Bowser's original 7 children were seen once and then relegated to cameos, Bowser Jr. debuted in Sunshine and has appeared far more frequently with time. And while his objectives are similar to Bowser's own, his motivations differ slightly, as he is most likely strongly driven by a desire to assist his father in every way possible.

Jr. should thus be considered a "tributary" of Bowser: an outsource of his father's personality and desires with different reasonings behind his respective actions. The direct relation is what solidifies his status as something more than just "secondary."

(I hate to devote so much time to Bowser Jr., but I felt that I might as well make the point. I'll do the same for Toad when I find time--hopefully soon!)

I should also call into question your other comparisons on the grounds that the relations are logically fallacious in comparison to the Bowser-Jr. relationship. I think that at this point, however, you should be able to infer my points of contention from the above analysis.

(And as a quick little note: the "parent-child" dynamic between Mewtwo and Mew would actually be Mew-Mewtwo. Mewtwo was cloned by scientifically enhancing Mew's DNA--thus the suffix "-two." You just had the relation inverted.)

Oh, and while I'm at it: despite Fawriel's disappointment, I really hope Y. Link / WW Link doesn't make it into Brawl.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Wow Aeris is back!!! I agree that was pretty funny.

Well here is my opinion on Toad vs Jr. Toad has been a star in Wario Woods, a player in all sport games (exception for Mario hoops), a character in most of the Mario Party series, AND he was invented back in the first Mario games.
He would be a strong character with a pretty unique moveset. He also has a decent fanbase and not be a clone.
Now, has Jr ever had his own game? No and he has only been a villain in some games. He is JUST a son of the main villain. Including Jr. in Brawl is like including a Waddle Dee (they are kind of like sons of Dedede), Mew (mewtwo's son kinda), young Ganondorf, or a Ridley egg.

Another thing is that maybe Young Link won't make it in Brawl. He is the actual young form of the most obvious character they would include after Mario. If Young Link doesen't make it then Bowser Jr. is history.
See what I mean?

This logic is really messed up. Waddle Dee? Ridley egg? How about not a good argument. Bowser Jr. is nothing like Waddle Dee or any of the other characters you mentioned. Young Link won't make it b/c he's just another form of Link. Bowser Jr. is not another form of Bowser, but a completely different character. Toad would not be a strong character or a clone, just a loud screeching punching bag and a waste of a space.

 

[Masque]

Face it, Jr. has a bigger chance than Toad.

Currently? Yes. But based solely on their relation to the series as a whole? No. Here, I think seniority would play a big role. Toad's chances were severely weakened when Peach began using a Toad as a shield, but he has been around long enough and is popular enough to warrant his inclusion in a Smash game sooner or later. After all, they don't have Bowser plushies.

 

[shinhed-echi]

So Bowser Jr. aspires to ASSIST his father?

Then he should be an ASSIST alright. An Assist TROPHY that is... We really don't need any more Mario characters, specially any more mario villains that carry a shell.

Honestly.. what do people see in Bowser JR. He was an insult of a mini boss in NSMB.. a Boom Boom was harder than him. Trying to go retro on Mario with Bowser Jr. included was a terrible idea if you ask me. I've seen generic enemies harder than Bowser Jr. (football guy from SMW?)

In my eyes, he's just a 3-hit-ko Koopa troopa. I wish Bowser's... mating partner would have had an abortion this time...

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Currently? Yes. But based solely on their relation to the series as a whole? No. Here, I think seniority would play a big role. Toad's chances were severely weakened when Peach began using a Toad as a shield, but he has been around long enough and is popular enough to warrant his inclusion in a Smash game sooner or later. After all, they don't have Bowser plushies.

What does plushies have to do with anything. They can be added based on the relation to the series b/c if I'm not mistaken, Sunshine is a part of the series and now confirmed to be a part in Brawl(which btw Jr. debuted). If Toad ever gets in as a PC, I will make sure whoever plays as him don't have a fun time and this is a guarantee.

So Bowser Jr. aspires to ASSIST his father?

Then he should be an ASSIST alright. An Assist TROPHY that is... We really don't need any more Mario characters, specially any more mario villains that carry a shell.

Honestly.. what do people see in Bowser JR. He was an insult of a mini boss in NSMB.. a Boom Boom was harder than him. Trying to go retro on Mario with Bowser Jr. included was a terrible idea if you ask me. I've seen generic enemies harder than Bowser Jr. (football guy from SMW?)

In my eyes, he's just a 3-hit-ko Koopa troopa. I wish Bowser's... mating partner would have had an abortion this time...

Despite whether you want anymore Mario characters or not will have no effect on how many will be in. Mario is the reason we have smash and other epic games today. I'm guessing Luigi should be an AT too since he assists his bro on his adventures, hmm? 3-hit KO? Wonder what Toad would be? 0.5 hit KO?

 

[shinhed-echi]

What does plushies have to do with anything. They can be added based on the relation to the series b/c if I'm not mistaken, Sunshine is a part of the series and now confirmed to be a part in Brawl(which btw Jr. debuted). If Toad ever gets in as a PC, I will make sure whoever plays as him don't have a fun time and this is a guarantee.



Despite whether you want anymore Mario characters or not will have no effect on how many will be in. Mario is the reason we have smash and other epic games today. I'm guessing Luigi should be an AT too since he assists his bro on his adventures, hmm? 3-hit KO? Wonder what Toad would be? 0.5 hit KO?

Unlike Bowser Jr. Luigi has been the 2P option ever since Super Mario Bros. And Luigi had a game for himself. You could even choose him instead of Mario in NSMBs.

Assisting would be something like Tails would do in Sonic 2. COMPLETELY different from playing AS him, or competing against someone else to see who advances in the game further.


Oh really? It's funny you know, that I've seen Toad taking the full blast of Samus's charged blast, Bowser's FWD smash, Ness's PK Flash and Roy's fully charged Flare Sword... and yet he keeps being pulled out to absorb damage.

That doesn't look like Toad has 0.5 hit Ko.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Unlike Bowser Jr. Luigi has been the 2P option ever since Super Mario Bros. And Luigi had a game for himself. You could even choose him instead of Mario in NSMBs.

Assisting would be something like Tails would do in Sonic 2. COMPLETELY different from playing AS him, or competing against someone else to see who advances in the game further.


Oh really? It's funny you know, that I've seen Toad taking the full blast of Samus's charged blast, Bowser's FWD smash, Ness's PK Flash and Roy's fully charged Flare Sword... and yet he keeps being pulled out to absorb damage.

That doesn't look like Toad has 0.5 hit Ko.

He's used a shield in Melee, that's the whole point genius. I'm talking about in majority of other games, in which he's usually seen getting his *** smoked by even the simplest of enemies.

 

[Masque]

What does plushies have to do with anything. They can be added based on the relation to the series b/c if I'm not mistaken, Sunshine is a part of the series and now confirmed to be a part in Brawl(which btw Jr. debuted). If Toad ever gets in as a PC, I will make sure whoever plays as him don't have a fun time and this is a guarantee.

Despite whether you want anymore Mario characters or not will have no effect on how many will be in. Mario is the reason we have smash and other epic games today. I'm guessing Luigi should be an AT too since he assists his bro on his adventures, hmm? 3-hit KO? Wonder what Toad would be? 0.5 hit KO?

*sigh* Does everything need to be taken so seriously? It was a harmless, mildly humorous comment--yet still rooted in fact. Nintendo acknowledges Toad's popularity over Bowser Jr. with Toad merchandise. That, to me, says something. Perhaps they do not see Toad as the next "breakout" Mario star like Luigi and Peach, but they still see his marketing potential and his high popularity. Given the recent quality--or lack thereof--of the Sonic series, do you really think that Sonic made it into Brawl based on recent years? Of course not! It was Sonic's insanely high popularity that got him a spot on the playable roster. Popularity plays a big factor in these sorts of decisions, so I certainly wouldn't discount Toad indefinitely.

The problem here is that--once again--you're coming in with a decidedly negative view and expressing it with irrefutable hostility ("If Toad ever gets in ... I will make sure [that] whoever plays as him [doesn't] have a fun time [;] this is a guarantee," "[T]hat's the whole point[,] genius"). (Oh, I hope you don't mind that I made some grammatical alterations. I just wanted to make it sound slightly less barbaric.) I don't know if you have some sort of "Toad vendetta" but, if so, just let it go! We're here to discuss and have fun. There's no need to make idle threats to ruin the fun of anyone playing a video game--do you realize how ludicrous this sounds? Intentionally finding a way to ruin someone's enjoyment of a game?!

I don't mind that you dislike Toad. I do mind, however, that you are making this thread a much less enjoyable place to post.

In your defense, though, I will concede that the inclusion of Sunshine-themed material does seem to lean in Jr.'s favor. On the other hand, Toad assists Mario on his adventures as well, so he should theoretically take the same number of hits as Luigi to knock him out.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Okay, I'm going to have to disagree here: Toad has a greater chance than Bowser Jr.

reasons

1) Seniority (toad's been around since the first mario game)
2) Novelty (as said before, Bowser Jr. is filling the roles of the Koopalings and Koopa Kid before him)
3) Originality (we already have bowser... who do we have like toad?)
4) Importance (yeah... I wouldn't put this except you are arguing that Bowser Jr. has more relevance even though Toad has been a relavent character to the series since the 80s)
5) Popularity (seriously, lots of people love toad.)
6) Recognizability (even non-gamers have a shot of knowing who toad is)
7) Old-School (sakurai seems to prefer old school over new)

Now what really hurts both of them is, despite mario being the premier series for Nintendo, mario probably already has more than enough reps... I doubt there's space for either of them... but if there were, you'd better bet your sweet booty that toad would make it in before Jr.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Bowser is used as an assist (and a poor miniboss) in all games he appears in.

And we can all remember ONE particular game where Toad used to kick butt. Super Mario Bros 2 / USA, which in fact is pretty much recognized by Sakurai himself. (anda LOT more popular than Sunshine)

Popularity is your argument...Yet, I don't see him surpassing GENO (or Toad) in the poll which, mind you, was CLOSED a year and a half ago.

Important role? Pfftt.. Geno did a LOT more than "trying to assist his father" even if it was only one (legendary) game.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Bowser is used as an assist (and a poor miniboss) in all games he appears in.

And we can all remember ONE particular game where Toad used to kick butt. Super Mario Bros 2 / USA, which in fact is pretty much recognized by Sakurai himself. (anda LOT more popular than Sunshine)

Popularity is your argument...Yet, I don't see him surpassing GENO (or Toad) in the poll which, mind you, was CLOSED a year and a half ago.

Important role? Pfftt.. Geno did a LOT more than "trying to assist his father" even if it was only one (legendary) game.

1. That game was only a dream
2. Geno is third party, Toad is deconfirmed
3. Jr. may assist his father but appears in major title since his debut, and that's 1 more constructive thing than Toad will ever do in the games he's in

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

1. That game was only a dream
2. Geno is third party, Toad is deconfirmed
3. Jr. may assist his father but appears in major title since his debut, and that's 1 more constructive thing than Toad will ever do in the games he's in

okay... um none of your arguments mean anything.

I could shoot them down one by one, but it's not worth my time really

 

[shinhed-echi]

1. That game was only a dream
2. Geno is third party, Toad is deconfirmed
3. Jr. may assist his father but appears in major title since his debut, and that's 1 more constructive thing than Toad will ever do in the games he's in

1.- In SSB, they're dolls, in Melee and Brawl they're trophies... Your point?
2.- In the eyes of Sakurai, he's not. And Square can't use this character, making HIM 2nd.
3.- Toad is famous and popular even through spinoffs for being the fastest racer. And even if it's spinoffs, Toad HAS appeared in more consecutive games than Bowser Jr. Does Sakurai care for Spinoffs? ... No..? *looks at Mario Kart Stage* I think he does.

 

[Masque]

Hedgedawg brings up a good point: Sakurai does tend to favor the old-school--"the iconic characters." We see Pit has been resurrected from the depths of the NES library (or Game Boy, if you want to get technical). Mr. Game & Watch is another prime example of a character long-forgotten by many, only to be revived and given the chance to play anew.

Smash is a game about Nintendo's all-stars. While Jr. is gaining popularity, I couldn't faithfully say that he has truly achieved "all-star" status quite yet. Toad, however, is easily recognized by gamers and non-gamers the world over.

1. That game was only a dream
2. Geno is third party, Toad is deconfirmed
3. Jr. may assist his father but appears in major title since his debut, and that's 1 more constructive thing than Toad will ever do in the games he's in

1.) That has absolutely no bearing on Toad's chances of appearing. Peach's floating prowess was taken directly from that game and has been used since that time. Super Mario Bros. 2 added her ability to float to the Mario canon, dream or not. The same fact goes for Luigi's ability to jump higher than the other main Mario character. If it were truly "just a dream," then these abilities would no longer remain in play. You might want to rethink this point.

2.) Geno sounds like a character in that "gray area" in which character rights are tangled in a human-woven web of confusion and red tape. I won't bother classifying him, but the character rights issue does pose a problem for his inclusion. And Toad has yet to be deconfirmed by Sakurai, technically speaking, but it is clear that his chances for inclusion on the playable roster are very slim at this point.

3.) ...Um, Toad has appeared in major titles as well, hasn't he? I suppose I'm just not quite sure what you're saying. The syntax in your "statement" is a little...odd.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

1.- In SSB, they're dolls, in Melee and Brawl they're trophies... Your point?
2.- In the eyes of Sakurai, he's not. And Square can't use this character, making HIM 2nd.
3.- Toad is famous and popular even through spinoffs for being the fastest racer. And even if it's spinoffs, Toad HAS appeared in more consecutive games than Bowser Jr. Does Sakurai care for Spinoffs? ... No..? *looks at Mario Kart Stage* I think he does.

1. My point is isn't not really apart of the series
2. Good for Geno
3. Fastest racer? No more(Dry Bones is pwnsome lol, maybe we should make him a character too). Bowser Jr. also appears in spinoffs and is starting to appear and have major roles in consecutive big games.

Hedgedawg brings up a good point: Sakurai does tend to favor the old-school--"the iconic characters." We see Pit has been resurrected from the depths of the NES library (or Game Boy, if you want to get technical). Mr. Game & Watch is another prime example of a character long-forgotten by many, only to be revived and given the chance to play anew.

Smash is a game about Nintendo's all-stars. While Jr. is gaining popularity, I couldn't faithfully say that he has truly achieved "all-star" status quite yet. Toad, however, is easily recognized by gamers and non-gamers the world over.



1.) That has absolutely no bearing on Toad's chances of appearing. Peach's floating prowess was taken directly from that game and has been used since that time. Super Mario Bros. 2 added her ability to float to the Mario canon, dream or not. The same fact goes for Luigi's ability to jump higher than the other main Mario character. If it were truly "just a dream," then these abilities would no longer remain in play. You might want to rethink this point.

2.) Geno sounds like a character in that "gray area" in which character rights are tangled in a human-woven web of confusion and red tape. I won't bother classifying him, but the character rights issue does pose a problem for his inclusion. And Toad has yet to be deconfirmed by Sakurai, technically speaking, but it is clear that his chances for inclusion on the playable roster are very slim at this point.

3.) ...Um, Toad has appeared in major titles as well, hasn't he? I suppose I'm just not quite sure what you're saying. The syntax in your "statement" is a little...odd.

1. The game is called Dream Factory in Japan, if I'm not mistaken this argument was shot down pages ago.
2. I'm pretty sure he's deconfirmed, but anywho...
3. What role has he played in those, other than telling what you most likely already know or just to be there?

 

[shinhed-echi]

1.- No idea what you tried to say here...
2.- ...? He still beats the tar out of Bowser Jr. in POLL requests.
3.- Hah... and you think one measly inclusion of a generic enemy will kill Toad's fanbase?

What's actually intriguing is how you're SO SURE Bowser Jr. will make the cut. lol.

I met a lot of naive people thinking exactly alike when it came to Samurai Goroh, Lady Lyndis and Tom Nook (the most annoying ones). And a lot of annoying people that were absolutely CERTAIN that the Ice Climbers would get the boot (I presume, for lack of popularity).

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

1.- No idea what you tried to say here...
2.- ...? He still beats the tar out of Bowser Jr. in POLL requests.
3.- Hah... and you think one measly inclusion of a generic enemy will kill Toad's fanbase?

What's actually intriguing is how you're SO SURE Bowser Jr. will make the cut. lol.

I met a lot of naive people thinking exactly alike when it came to Samurai Goroh, Lady Lyndis and Tom Nook (the most annoying ones). And a lot of annoying people that were absolutely CERTAIN that the Ice Climbers would get the boot (I presume, for lack of popularity).

1. I'm trying to say the argument was beaten pages ago.
2. Yet I don't care, beats having Toad playable
3. Yet, that one measily inclusion took his top race spot. Do I think it will kill a fanbase, no, saying that would be a lack of logic(cmon it's a spinoff). I have confidence for Jr., just as I have for other characters.

 

[shinhed-echi]

1. I'm trying to say the argument was beaten pages ago.
2. Yet I don't care, beats having Toad playable
3. Yet, that one measily inclusion took his top race spot. Do I think it will kill a fanbase, no, saying that would be a lack of logic(cmon it's a spinoff). I have confidence for Jr., just as I have for other characters.

1.- Beaten? Well I wasn't here back then. And I hardly doubt any arguments get "beaten" here.

2.- beats having ANY other Mario character playable actually.

3.- What I'm trying to say is Toad built his fanbase through SMB2 AND the spinoffs.


It's good to have confidence in one character.. To some extent. There was this girl I knew who almost committed suicide the day Lyndis was confirmed as an AT. Never heard of her again since September 11 (Lyndis update). Well, not saying you'll kill yourself.. but overreacting over characters is pretty dumb.

Oh well.. I don't know how I ended up debating on Bowser Jr and Geno, when I popped in here to give moveset ideas for Toad... ._.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

1.- Beaten? Well I wasn't here back then. And I hardly doubt any arguments get "beaten" here.

2.- beats having ANY other Mario character playable actually.

3.- What I'm trying to say is Toad built his fanbase through SMB2 AND the spinoffs.


It's good to have confidence in one character.. To some extent. There was this girl I knew who almost committed suicide the day Lyndis was confirmed as an AT. Never heard of her again since September 11 (Lyndis update). Well, not saying you'll kill yourself.. but overreacting over characters is pretty dumb.

Oh well.. I don't know how I ended up debating on Bowser Jr and Geno, when I popped in here to give moveset ideas for Toad... ._.

1. Basically it was countered or w/e you call it
2. I can't deny that
3. I'm trying to say Jr. has built his by debutting and reoccuring in major titles, he's not just Bowser's son(it's more to it than what people think)
4. **** happens

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I wanted Lyndis

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

When I looked I thought she was PC at first, but hey Sakurai will make other mistakes(like what he's currently done with online play)

 

[shinhed-echi]

I wanted Little Mac. :/

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Another Sakurai mistake lol

 

[Masque]

1. The game is called Dream Factory in Japan, if I'm not mistaken this argument was shot down pages ago.
2. I'm pretty sure he's deconfirmed, but anywho...
3. What role has he played in those, other than telling what you most likely already know or just to be there?

1.) No, you most certainly are mistaken. Doki Doki Panic and Super Mario Bros. USA (SMB2 in the States) are two entirely different games. Doki Doki Panic is the original game from which SMB2 got its engine, but the storyline and characters aren't the same in the least. Dream or not in either case, the story and character abilities hold true in the Mario canon, and it is thus recognizable as a true entry in the Mario series. Peach can float, Luigi can jump high, and Toad is speedy and pretty strong for his height--all three have retained these characteristics since SMB2.

2.) It is unclear as to whether or not Peach uses the singular Toad of SMB2 fame (among other games) or a generic Mushroom Retainer. Until Sakurai says that Toad will not be playable, there exists a technicality in the sense that Toad has yet to be officially deconfirmed. Do I think Toad will be playable? Probably not. But the possibility still exists in theory.

3.) SMB2, Wario's Woods--two games in which Toad plays the hero. You can control him in one or two of the Mario & Luigi RPGs, if I remember correctly as well. While Toad's lack of extensive roles has increased in recent years, the fact remains that Toad is present nonetheless. He may not be the pivotal character around which the storyline revolves, but he is consistently present in Mario's adventures, always lending a helping hand in whatever way he can. Toad might not be the strongest of Mario's friends, but he's certainly the most loyal.

I wanted Little Mac. :/

Me too. He looks way too good to be an AT!

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

1.) No, you most certainly are mistaken. Doki Doki Panic and Super Mario Bros. USA (SMB2 in the States) are two entirely different games. Doki Doki Panic is the original game from which SMB2 got its engine, but the storyline and characters aren't the same in the least. Dream or not in either case, the story and character abilities hold true in the Mario canon, and it is thus recognizable as a true entry in the Mario series. Peach can float, Luigi can jump high, and Toad is speedy and pretty strong for his height--all three have retained these characteristics since SMB2.

2.) It is unclear as to whether or not Peach uses the singular Toad of SMB2 fame (among other games) or a generic Mushroom Retainer. Until Sakurai says that Toad will not be playable, there exists a technicality in the sense that Toad has yet to be officially deconfirmed. Do I think Toad will be playable? Probably not. But the possibility still exists in theory.

3.) SMB2, Wario's Woods--two games in which Toad plays the hero. You can control him in one or two of the Mario & Luigi RPGs, if I remember correctly as well. While Toad's lack of extensive roles has increased in recent years, the fact remains that Toad is present nonetheless. He may not be the pivotal character around which the storyline revolves, but he is consistently present in Mario's adventures, always lending a helping hand in whatever way he can. Toad might not be the strongest of Mario's friends, but he's certainly the most loyal.



Me too. He looks way too good to be an AT!

Dude, it's over. I'm tired of going back and forth(it's going to continue going in circles until one of us stops).