To Those Who Favor Brawl, Let's Finally Admit It...

[samdaballer]

But yeah. We sucked in Melee. :ouch:

uhh, no, speak for yourself

 

[UltimaXtreme]

I fall in the category of people who favor Brawl over Melee. Why? In terms of direct reasons, it has nothing to do with the physics, the hitstun, the aerials, the characters, etc. There is one simple reason why people who say that Brawl is better than Melee say that, and while many pros have probably already figured it out, I'll be man enough to admit it for most, if not all, of us:

We sucked in Melee.
There. Are you happy? I said it.

Sure, we may have pulled off some epic victories with our mains. We might have a combo video up on YouTube with a few hundred views. We might have beaten a local pro or two in casual matches. we might have entered a tournament and scored enough victories to earn basic respect. But all in all, there is at least one aspect of Melee that kept us from being that pro that we all secretly wnated to be, whether it be an AT, a character match-up, or even the deeper understanding of how a game works when you take it to the competitive level. You know, we were just playing Melee with out friends until one day, you hear about a tournament with players that are MUCH better than us. We tried to learn, but it was too late to absorb all that info.

But now, Brawl is out, and we're all playing and learning at the same time. Melee doesn't necessarily have a bigger learning curve than Brawl, it's just that everybody is learning this game at the same time. Whatever ATs (or phony ATs) are being discovered, everybody's gonna know because we're all thriving to learn this game and not be left in the dust like we were in Melee. This is one of the reasons why I believe that Brawl is every bit as competitive as Melee because now, there are more competitors to this game that have the same amount of knowledge about it as you do. Yes, Melee and Brawl are games with two very different technical designs, but it still takes skill to play and win in Brawl. The only reason why Melee vets may say otherwise is because they haven't been able to own the new faces of Brawl like they used to in Melee, and the reasons for that are 1) we perfer Brawl while you perfer Melee, and 2) everybody's learning this game at the same time.

But yeah. We sucked in Melee. :ouch:

Didn't even read after seeing "we sucked in melee".

Brawl is clearly better for very obvious reasons.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Didn't even read after seeing "we sucked in melee".

Brawl is clearly better for very obvious reasons.

Do list those reasons then. I'd be glad to hear them.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Sakurai has already provided the games' true ATs. They're even labeled as such on the Dojo; such things as the Ukemi (and L-Canceling, in the older installments) are IN THE PROGRAMMING OF THE GAME, intended for use in that manner by the player. Wavedashing, while a product of the game's physics engine, is NOT intended for use by the game's developers. If Sakurai had intended for players to scoot around on the stage floor, THERE WOULD BE NO ABILITY TO RUN, and IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DISCOVERED BY ACCIDENT. If Sakurai had intended for players to be able to lock an opponent into unstoppable combos (waveshine, etc.), he wouldn't have bothered giving us shields and dodges. If Sakurai had intended to make Snake and Meta-knight the only two characters in the game that win at tournaments, THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY TWO CHARACTERS IN THE GAME.

So, does not knowing/not being able to perform/not being aware of/not caring about these so-called ATs make a player a noob? I think not. If anything, it's a crutch (some might even go so far as to call it an outright cheat) that these "pro" glory-mongers have to use because they can't just play the ****ed game. These players have sold the soul of their favorite game series in order to achieve a few more wins...and for what? How many people outside of this message board (indeed, how many people IN this message board) give three-tenths of a rat's *** if you four-stocked old Whats-his-nuts at last weekend's tourney and won a couple hundred bucks? After you're dead, your name will still fade into the dust with your body, and none of our descendants will ever hear it. If you want glory that badly, go to war. That's where heroes are made; not in front of a television screen ****ing up the Smash Bros. series.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Sakurai has already provided the games' true ATs. They're even labeled as such on the Dojo; such things as the Ukemi (and L-Canceling, in the older installments) are IN THE PROGRAMMING OF THE GAME, intended for use in that manner by the player. Wavedashing, while a product of the game's physics engine, is NOT intended for use by the game's developers. If Sakurai had intended for players to scoot around on the stage floor, THERE WOULD BE NO ABILITY TO RUN, and IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DISCOVERED BY ACCIDENT. If Sakurai had intended for players to be able to lock an opponent into unstoppable combos (waveshine, etc.), he wouldn't have bothered giving us shields and dodges. If Sakurai had intended to make Snake and Meta-knight the only two characters in the game that win at tournaments, THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY TWO CHARACTERS IN THE GAME.

So, does not knowing/not being able to perform/not being aware of/not caring about these so-called ATs make a player a noob? I think not. If anything, it's a crutch (some might even go so far as to call it an outright cheat) that these "pro" glory-mongers have to use because they can't just play the ****ed game. These players have sold the soul of their favorite game series in order to achieve a few more wins...and for what? How many people outside of this message board (indeed, how many people IN this message board) give three-tenths of a rat's *** if you four-stocked old Whats-his-nuts at last weekend's tourney and won a couple hundred bucks? After you're dead, your name will still fade into the dust with your body, and none of our descendants will ever hear it. If you want glory that badly, go to war. That's where heroes are made; not in front of a television screen ****ing up the Smash Bros. series.

And here you are, on a message board for a fighting game telling everyone this. Okay, buddy.

Some people want to live for the moment and would be satisfied with tourney recognition (the money is just to kick up the moment).

Hey, Lovage, what you said still proves true, yet again!

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Do list those reasons then. I'd be glad to hear them.

What ever reasons stated is going to be opinion based so I wouldn't even bother unless you're bored or like to argue.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Judging both by the intended randomness and the other games turned out by Nintendo, it's fairly safe to say that Smash is no ordinary fighting game. It's more like a Party game than any other, and should be treated as such. Street Fighter is a fighting game. Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur are fighting games. Super Smash Bros. is nothing remotely close to any of these. It is, in its core, a GAME. Games are meant to be fun, regardless of victory or defeat. If it's worth botching the flow of gameplay just to secure a victory, then Smash becomes no more than a means to an end and you might as well just do something more worth your while.

I'm curious, when was the last time you lost a match, and still enjoyed playing it?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

Judging both by the intended randomness and the other games turned out by Nintendo, it's fairly safe to say that Smash is no ordinary fighting game. It's more like a Party game than any other, and should be treated as such. Street Fighter is a fighting game. Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur are fighting games. Super Smash Bros. is nothing remotely close to any of these. It is, in its core, a GAME. Games are meant to be fun, regardless of victory or defeat. If it's worth botching the flow of gameplay just to secure a victory, then Smash becomes no more than a means to an end and you might as well just do something more worth your while.

I'm curious, when was the last time you lost a match, and still enjoyed playing it?

Smash isn't a fighting game because it doesn't have a health bar or what?

I agree in some what in what you say but smash is a fighting game. Just different. Mario party is a partying game. What do you do inn Smash....Throw punches, kicks, etc. That's what you do in fights...therefor its a fighting game. Just different.

And I have lost matches before but still enjoy playing it. I'm no sore loser

 

[-Big_-Blue 9]

Judging both by the intended randomness and the other games turned out by Nintendo, it's fairly safe to say that Smash is no ordinary fighting game. It's more like a Party game than any other, and should be treated as such. Street Fighter is a fighting game. Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur are fighting games. Super Smash Bros. is nothing remotely close to any of these. It is, in its core, a GAME. Games are meant to be fun, regardless of victory or defeat. If it's worth botching the flow of gameplay just to secure a victory, then Smash becomes no more than a means to an end and you might as well just do something more worth your while.

I'm curious, when was the last time you lost a match, and still enjoyed playing it?

Wow this post is very subjective.
And I love losing to someone because it tells me I still have potential to be even better
whereas in brawl, you lose, there isn't that wants to make you fight again. Because you're guaranteed to win at least once due to increased chances of mistakes happening.

Oh and since when are games meant not to be fun?

 

[fkacyan]

This post is stupid. Why isn't it locked yet?

BTW, I suck at Melee and I still like it more.

 

[Dav657]

So, does not knowing/not being able to perform/not being aware of/not caring about these so-called ATs make a player a noob? I think not. If anything, it's a crutch (some might even go so far as to call it an outright cheat) that these "pro" glory-mongers have to use because they can't just play the ****ed game. These players have sold the soul of their favorite game series in order to achieve a few more wins...and for what? How many people outside of this message board (indeed, how many people IN this message board) give three-tenths of a rat's *** if you four-stocked old Whats-his-nuts at last weekend's tourney and won a couple hundred bucks? After you're dead, your name will still fade into the dust with your body, and none of our descendants will ever hear it. If you want glory that badly, go to war. That's where heroes are made; not in front of a television screen ****ing up the Smash Bros. series.

dude seriously calm the f***** down. Why would i want to go to war? To be killed for nonsense. Yes all war is nonsense. To have peace you must kill thousands of people? yea great logic there. O and if i were to die in war no ONE will remember my name besides my family and close friends.

back on topic
if i won a couple of hundreds against a pro i think i would be pretty happy. challenge myself to new levels get into the competitive scene. Even if pros dont use the AT's they would still be better than you, me and other players that dont compete in the competitive scene. please if you trying to make a point make sure you understand what your talking about

 

[fredymartinez1]

Melee <> Brawl end of story...
But never will it be...
Melee = Brawl
Melee < Brawl
Melee > Brawl

 

[Kasai]

uhh, no, speak for yourself

QFT...

I think nessboudner said it right in the first reply. Maybe the OP sucked at melee but he definitely has another thing coming if he thinks that the only reason people favor brawl is because they sucked at melee. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any half decent players who play brawl. Honestly, I prefer brawl because if offers new stuff, be it content, a new physics system and, most of all, because thats where most of the action is.

Honestly, if everyone, out of nowhere, ditched brawl and went back to melee, I probably would also. I'm not die hard on either game to be forced to sit by myself and play.

 

[momochuu]

Melee <> Brawl end of story...
But never will it be...
Melee = Brawl
Melee < Brawl
Melee > Brawl

/Thread

10

 

[crazn137]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I favor brawl because I got into melee waay too late. I started playing it a lot with my friends about a year or so before brawl came out, and we didn't find out about ATs until a few months before brawl. That certainly wasn't enough time to practice or become efficient at Wavedashing or L-Cancelling. I didn't even bother spending enough time to practice because I knew Brawl was going to be coming out in a relatively short amount of time.

So the reason I favor Brawl over Melee is because I'm there to see every new discovery and AT (using that term lightly) go down, and I can be in the thick of things as everyone is developing their character's metagames.

So in short...yes...I did suck at Melee

 

[fredymartinez1]

/Thread

10

wat...

10char

 

[Byronman]

Why do people keep quoting the first post? You really don't need to...

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I favor brawl because I got into melee waay too late. I started playing it a lot with my friends about a year or so before brawl came out, and we didn't find out about ATs until a few months before brawl. That certainly wasn't enough time to practice or become efficient at Wavedashing or L-Cancelling. I didn't even bother spending enough time to practice because I knew Brawl was going to be coming out in a relatively short amount of time.

So the reason I favor Brawl over Melee is because I'm there to see every new discovery and AT (using that term lightly) go down, and I can be in the thick of things as everyone is developing their character's metagames.

So in short...yes...I did suck at Melee

I agree with this (seeing as I am one of the aforementioned friends) I admit I like brawl better. And I kind of sucked in melee. I kind of like it better because I am better and have a chance to be a high level player. I also like it because, of the character selection and that it is on th wii and it is time to move on.

Also to all you people out there saying that melee is better, go to a different thread because this is not a debate of whether or not brawl is better. Did you read the title?

But if you must: It is pointless to argue for or against brawl being better because it is a different game. The mechanics are different and you are supposed to fight a different way than in melee. With the getting rid of most combos due to lack of hitstun, the loss of wavedashing due to multiple air dodges, and getting rid of dash dancing with the edition of prat falls (That might not be it, but I can't think of any other reason they are there...); it is just a different game. Keep in mind these games are not made to be played professionally. They are made for fun.

 

[DTKPch]

Also to all you people out there saying that melee is better, go to a different thread because this is not a debate of whether or not brawl is better. Did you read the title?

I didn't bother to check all the way back, but I'm fairly sure Stoupes decided to post "Brawl is better than Melee," without anyone before him saying "Melee is better than Brawl."

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Smash isn't a fighting game because it doesn't have a health bar or what?

I agree in some what in what you say but smash is a fighting game. Just different. Mario party is a partying game. What do you do inn Smash....Throw punches, kicks, etc. That's what you do in fights...therefor its a fighting game. Just different.

And I have lost matches before but still enjoy playing it. I'm no sore loser

You can jump on people and punch them in Mario Party. Does this make Mario Party a fighter?

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

You can jump on people and punch them in Mario Party. Does this make Mario Party a fighter?

Are you serious?

Is the whole concept of mario party to choose a character and fight with others (using fist, feet, etc) to win? No, you pick a character, do little mini games and try to get the most stars and coins. Please don't be ignorant. Mario party is a party game hence the title mario PARTY.
Melee, Brawl = Fighting names. The whole Smash bros series are fighting games. Mario Party series= Party games

 

[Byronman]

I didn't bother to check all the way back, but I'm fairly sure Stoupes decided to post "Brawl is better than Melee," without anyone before him saying "Melee is better than Brawl."

So? It is your faults as well by retaliating. That was his opinion.

You can jump on people and punch them in Mario Party. Does this make Mario Party a fighter?

Are you serious?

Is the whole concept of mario party to choose a character and fight with others (using fist, feet, etc) to win? No, you pick a character, do little mini games and try to get the most stars and coins. Please don't be ignorant. Mario party is a party game hence the title mario PARTY.
Melee, Brawl = Fighting names. The whole Smash bros series are fighting games. Mario Party series= Party games

*sigh* will you stop already?

 

[momochuu]

Are you serious?

Is the whole concept of mario party to choose a character and fight with others (using fist, feet, etc) to win? No, you pick a character, do little mini games and try to get the most stars and coins. Please don't be ignorant. Mario party is a party game hence the title mario PARTY.
Melee, Brawl = Fighting names. The whole Smash bros series are fighting games. Mario Party series= Party games

Umm...iirc they were meant to be more like Party games. Maybe I'm wrong. Sorry if I am.

 

[fredymartinez1]

Again this is stupid... brawl will never beat melee and melee will never beat brawl......and they are not equal...
Melee <> Brawl end of story...
But never will it be...
Melee = Brawl
Melee < Brawl
Melee > Brawl

 

[Yukiwarashi]

That's funny. Nintendo's site labels Smash as an action game, not a fighting game. Sakurai himself has never called Smash a fighting game. In a Nintendo Power interview, he said he saw it as more of a party game.

And what a party game it is. Up to four players, a bunch of items, stages with crazy gimmicks...yes. Sure looks like a party game to me.

"What is "Super Smash Bros."?
It's a brawling, battling, action-packed video game that features a varied roster of characters for four-player simultaneous melees!"

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

*facepalm*

 

[Byronman]

That's funny. Nintendo's site labels Smash as an action game, not a fighting game. Sakurai himself has never called Smash a fighting game. In a Nintendo Power interview, he said he saw it as more of a party game.

And what a party game it is. Up to four players, a bunch of items, stages with crazy gimmicks...yes. Sure looks like a party game to me.

To be honest who cares? Has this thread really degenerated so much that you are arguing about the genre of this game!?

Again this is stupid... brawl will never beat melee and melee will never beat brawl......and they are not equal...
Melee <> Brawl end of story...
But never will it be...
Melee = Brawl
Melee < Brawl
Melee > Brawl

Thank you.

 

[znintendotaku]

umm yea same with me.....
@ crazn

 

[Yukiwarashi]

If people are wrong, why not correct them?

And I direct the same question to you. Why do YOU care about what I'm posting if it has nothing to do with you?

 

[fredymartinez1]

If people are wrong, why not correct them?

And I direct the same question to you. Why do YOU care about what I'm posting if it has nothing to do with you?

agreed

10charizards

 

[Zap657]

You can jump on people and punch them in Mario Party. Does this make Mario Party a fighter?

If I took, say... Halo 3, and put in a 3 second platforming segment, would that make Halo 3 a platformer? Didn't think so.

A game's genre is decided by what you mainly do in the game. But there exists games that include multiple genres in one, perhaps Brawl could be considered both a Fighter and a Party game in one, given the many options and items for casual play.

But couldn't the same be said for Melee? Even Smash 64? The series as a whole has always been more focused around party play than competitive play. (Or at least it really seems that way..)


Really this genre argument is ******** in the first place. We all know that smash is first and foremost a fighting game. (Did you even have a point to this?)

And I direct the same question to you. Why do YOU care about what I'm posting if it has nothing to do with you?

No one ever said that o.O

 

[old king coal]

not again! brawl clearly is a fighting game. not a conventional one, but still a fighting game.

Regarding the OP, i feel the same way. I came into the melee scene too late to learn but i feel differently in the way that i probably would have liked melee better

 

[znintendotaku]

That's funny. Nintendo's site labels Smash as an action game, not a fighting game. Sakurai himself has never called Smash a fighting game. In a Nintendo Power interview, he said he saw it as more of a party game.

And what a party game it is. Up to four players, a bunch of items, stages with crazy gimmicks...yes. Sure looks like a party game to me.

"What is "Super Smash Bros."?
It's a brawling, battling, action-packed video game that features a varied roster of characters for four-player simultaneous melees!"

i read sakurai refered to this game as a shooter (you increase the projectiles damage to fire them away) in a NP...
but i agree with byro', who cares?

 

[DTKPch]

You can jump on people and punch them in Mario Party. Does this make Mario Party a fighter?

Horrible argument there. Just horrible, unless, of course, you're not arguing that Brawl is not a fighter. If you're merely calling to attention how weak his logical argument was that Brawl is a fighter, then sure, this statement is fine. However, if you are of the viewpoint that Brawl is not a fighter and this aberration of logical reasoning is how you back it up, I frankly may lapse into a coma, caused solely by the ludicrousness of your statement there (and I will try to sue you if I ever wake up from said possible coma).

The main goal of each player in a Stock or Time match in SSB is to kill the other person. When you get into coin and bonus mode, it becomes more of a party game, but I believe everyone will agree when I say that the majority of the people play mostly stock or time matches. This outcome is what players fight for in traditional fighters as well: depletion of health or "ring-outs," such as in the Soul Calibur series. Of course, the contenders pursue such a goal with either fists, melee weapons, or some sort of magical power. When they are forced to use mostly guns, we may agree that the game becomes a shooter. Based on these conditions, Brawl is classified in the fighter genre.

The main goal of Mario Party is to either amass the highest star-coin total (assuming story mode) or to complete a mini-game in the fastest time/with the most points/surviving the terrain for the longest time (assuming mini-game mode). I'm sorry, but I missed the part where Mario and Luigi are trying to beat the **** out of each other to either A.) reduce their health to zero or B.) launch the other one into a painful oblivion through malicious, physical force. Now you may argue that some mini-games have this as a target. First, such a mini-game would be stretching the very definition of the fighter genre (much more so than Smash does). Second, this argument only applies to a miniscule percentage of all available mini-games, to the degree that such a statistic becomes irrelevant.

PROTIP: Ummm... think a bit more before you post.

 

[Byronman]

If people are wrong, why not correct them?

Because knowing this tiny obscure fact does not change anyone's opinion or experience or anything about anything. It is just one small thing that doesn't really matter.

And I direct the same question to you. Why do YOU care about what I'm posting if it has nothing to do with you?

Because you are clouding a thread that should be about people talking about their brawl experience and why they like it better. Not a debate about the genre or whether or not it is better than melee. It is all opinionated. Why are people who favor melee here in the first place?

 

[fredymartinez1]

This thread became kinda pointless now.....
(want to decide on wat genre it is........make a thread)

 

[WolfCypher]

I'll make this simple...

I personally like Brawl over Melee for a lot of reasons, but simply because Brawl has the likes of Pit and Wolf while Melee didn't, that's all the reason I need to say Brawl > Melee...

I'm soooo sleepy right now, and I don't have the energy to type even 1/3 of what I wanted to say.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

If I took, say... Halo 3, and put in a 3 second platforming segment, would that make Halo 3 a platformer? Didn't think so.

A game's genre is decided by what you mainly do in the game. But there exists games that include multiple genres in one, perhaps Brawl could be considered both a Fighter and a Party game in one, given the many options and items for casual play.

But couldn't the same be said for Melee? Even Smash 64? The series as a whole has always been more focused around party play than competitive play. (Or at least it really seems that way..)


Really this genre argument is ******** in the first place. We all know that smash is first and foremost a fighting game. (Did you even have a point to this?)

No one ever said that o.O

*sigh* Yeah, the same can be said for Melee and 64. Doesn't change the fact that they were meant to be party games.

And I know there are multiple genres, I'm not stupid. But look at what kind of game Smash is. You're taking several Nintendo characters and making them play against each other. In addition, there's no lifebar, but there's items and stages with gimmicks to make random things happen.

That sounds a lot more like a party game than a fighter. Fighters usually have stages that don't directly affect the players in major ways, a lifebar and items aren't included.

The reason I'm arguing this is because people take Smash way too seriously, and they make it out as something that's it not. Yes, I get that Melee became competitive by accident. But why complain when Brawl isn't competitive if the whole series is a party game in the first place?

And no one ever said that? The guy just said, "To be honest, who cares" So to be honest, why is he caring about what I'm saying?

 

[fredymartinez1]

brawl <> melee
.......................i'm going to bed........ this is so pointless .......

 

[znintendotaku]

sakurai and I said its a shooter.... buy a Nintendo Power and see his interview....it makes sense....

*blindly going off topic* >:^)

 

[fsdfsdgsgdf]

*sigh* Yeah, the same can be said for Melee and 64. Doesn't change the fact that they were meant to be party games.

And I know there are multiple genres, I'm not stupid. But look at what kind of game Smash is. You're taking several Nintendo characters and making them play against each other. In addition, there's no lifebar, but there's items and stages with gimmicks to make random things happen.

That sounds a lot more like a party game than a fighter. Fighters usually have stages that don't directly affect the players in major ways, a lifebar and items aren't included.

The reason I'm arguing this is because people take Smash way too seriously, and they make it out as something that's it not. Yes, I get that Melee became competitive by accident. But why complain when Brawl isn't competitive if the whole series is a party game in the first place?

And no one ever said that? The guy just said, "To be honest, who cares" So to be honest, why is he caring about what I'm saying?

You no nothing about fighting games